1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,080
This episode is very different than anything I've

2
00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:03,939
ever done before. This is actually a personal

3
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,179
story my guest is gonna share with you

4
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,559
about her experience of her father's compulsive sexual

5
00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:10,000
behavior and how it had effect on her

6
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,059
life and her family.

7
00:00:11,439 --> 00:00:13,939
You know, this is not a victimless addiction.

8
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,285
You know, loved ones are being

9
00:00:18,885 --> 00:00:19,704
our acting behaviors

10
00:00:20,164 --> 00:00:21,684
are being affected by this. And I hope

11
00:00:21,684 --> 00:00:23,364
when you listen to this story, you know,

12
00:00:23,364 --> 00:00:25,364
I so honor Kendra for sharing this with

13
00:00:25,364 --> 00:00:26,564
us. But I hope when you listen to

14
00:00:26,564 --> 00:00:28,884
this story, that you can appreciate, you know,

15
00:00:28,884 --> 00:00:31,119
the humanity of all of this and the

16
00:00:31,119 --> 00:00:33,200
reach and the damage and the pain that

17
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,359
this addiction can have on, you know, ourselves

18
00:00:35,359 --> 00:00:36,739
and everybody around us.

19
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,619
You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

20
00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:42,899
for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

21
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,924
This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

22
00:00:45,924 --> 00:00:49,125
recovery principles specifically to the mindset of the

23
00:00:49,125 --> 00:00:49,784
high achiever.

24
00:00:50,085 --> 00:00:52,484
I'm your host, Roland Cochran, founder of The

25
00:00:52,484 --> 00:00:54,964
Successful Addict, a recovery group for high achieving

26
00:00:54,964 --> 00:00:57,445
men struggling with sex and porn addiction. For

27
00:00:57,445 --> 00:00:59,684
more information about joining our group or attending

28
00:00:59,684 --> 00:01:02,759
our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

29
00:01:02,820 --> 00:01:05,000
And now enjoy the rest of the episode.

30
00:01:06,659 --> 00:01:08,200
Hello, everybody. So,

31
00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:11,299
this podcast is you can maybe hear it

32
00:01:11,299 --> 00:01:13,140
in my voice. My my throat's actually closing.

33
00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:14,760
I can't believe this. I was telling,

34
00:01:15,299 --> 00:01:17,564
our guest today that I'm nervous and I

35
00:01:17,564 --> 00:01:19,805
have not been nervous since maybe my very,

36
00:01:19,805 --> 00:01:21,344
very, very first episode.

37
00:01:21,725 --> 00:01:23,645
But the reason I'm nervous is what you're

38
00:01:23,645 --> 00:01:25,344
about to hear today

39
00:01:25,965 --> 00:01:28,204
is a personal story. I've never done this

40
00:01:28,204 --> 00:01:29,805
on my podcast and,

41
00:01:31,069 --> 00:01:32,829
we were just talking, and I'm gonna actually

42
00:01:32,829 --> 00:01:34,989
share my personal story here in a couple

43
00:01:34,989 --> 00:01:35,489
episodes.

44
00:01:36,269 --> 00:01:38,290
My throat's closing as I as I'm speaking.

45
00:01:39,469 --> 00:01:40,989
But I think one thing that that is

46
00:01:40,989 --> 00:01:44,349
not addressed enough in this field is the

47
00:01:44,349 --> 00:01:47,734
very realness of of this problem. What it

48
00:01:47,734 --> 00:01:50,135
does to the addicts and the compulsive people

49
00:01:50,135 --> 00:01:51,814
and what it does to their loved ones

50
00:01:51,814 --> 00:01:53,115
and families. And so,

51
00:01:54,215 --> 00:01:56,295
this I had this opportunity to bring you

52
00:01:56,295 --> 00:01:59,194
guys a very intense and real story that,

53
00:01:59,819 --> 00:02:01,899
altered the the course of people's lives forever.

54
00:02:01,899 --> 00:02:02,140
And,

55
00:02:03,019 --> 00:02:04,539
she's gonna share it with us for the

56
00:02:04,539 --> 00:02:06,379
first time. She's never shared this with people,

57
00:02:06,379 --> 00:02:07,819
and now she's sharing it in in one

58
00:02:07,819 --> 00:02:09,580
of the biggest ways possible, which I just

59
00:02:09,580 --> 00:02:11,259
honor that so much because I know you're

60
00:02:11,259 --> 00:02:11,900
not alone.

61
00:02:12,219 --> 00:02:14,239
This what this did to my family,

62
00:02:16,034 --> 00:02:16,534
was,

63
00:02:18,354 --> 00:02:20,754
life altering to say the least, myself included

64
00:02:20,754 --> 00:02:22,275
in that. And so as we dive into

65
00:02:22,275 --> 00:02:23,814
your story, I just want all the listeners

66
00:02:24,114 --> 00:02:24,754
to understand,

67
00:02:25,074 --> 00:02:26,354
if this is heavy, if this is gonna

68
00:02:26,354 --> 00:02:29,150
trigger you, maybe, maybe skip the episode, because,

69
00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:30,349
yeah, we're gonna we're gonna talk about the

70
00:02:30,349 --> 00:02:32,289
very real aspects of this.

71
00:02:32,909 --> 00:02:35,949
Can you kind of talk to us about

72
00:02:35,949 --> 00:02:36,689
the situation

73
00:02:37,229 --> 00:02:38,849
at hand and give us

74
00:02:39,150 --> 00:02:40,769
a little idea as to,

75
00:02:41,310 --> 00:02:43,009
why you're sharing what you're sharing today?

76
00:02:43,705 --> 00:02:44,205
Yeah.

77
00:02:45,064 --> 00:02:47,004
Just like you first of all, I appreciate

78
00:02:47,544 --> 00:02:49,944
how you introduced this, but, yeah, it's a

79
00:02:49,944 --> 00:02:51,724
very difficult one for me as well.

80
00:02:52,104 --> 00:02:54,525
I am a therapist. I'm very rarely

81
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,120
triggered these days. I'm very rarely nervous as

82
00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,419
a podcaster, and

83
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,680
I'm just my heart's racing really fast, feeling

84
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,840
really, vulnerable in ways that I haven't in

85
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:05,900
a very long time.

86
00:03:06,199 --> 00:03:07,719
Because like you said, this is my first

87
00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:10,735
time publicly sharing this, and I have been

88
00:03:10,735 --> 00:03:12,814
a podcaster for two years, a therapist for

89
00:03:12,814 --> 00:03:14,194
even longer. And I

90
00:03:14,735 --> 00:03:16,894
am not afraid to share hard things, but

91
00:03:16,894 --> 00:03:19,534
this is, like, next level hard. This is

92
00:03:19,534 --> 00:03:21,935
so raw and vulnerable vulnerable in a way

93
00:03:21,935 --> 00:03:24,414
that people that have not experienced this, probably

94
00:03:24,414 --> 00:03:25,235
can't understand.

95
00:03:25,629 --> 00:03:26,129
Mhmm.

96
00:03:27,710 --> 00:03:29,949
So just a brief synopsis. I'll let you

97
00:03:29,949 --> 00:03:31,810
ask questions where you want to, but,

98
00:03:34,189 --> 00:03:35,969
I guess, essentially, you could say

99
00:03:36,349 --> 00:03:36,849
pornography

100
00:03:37,229 --> 00:03:39,469
killed my dad. And I know that's kind

101
00:03:39,469 --> 00:03:41,715
of a big statement, and I'll explain more

102
00:03:41,715 --> 00:03:42,915
to that in a little bit. And I

103
00:03:42,915 --> 00:03:44,594
don't even know how much you know, Roland.

104
00:03:44,594 --> 00:03:45,094
But,

105
00:03:46,275 --> 00:03:47,175
when I was

106
00:03:47,794 --> 00:03:49,655
five years old, so I was pretty young,

107
00:03:49,875 --> 00:03:52,754
but the results of this lasted for decades.

108
00:03:52,754 --> 00:03:54,135
Honestly, they're still happening.

109
00:03:54,594 --> 00:03:54,835
But,

110
00:03:56,219 --> 00:03:56,719
my

111
00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:59,120
dad went missing for,

112
00:04:00,139 --> 00:04:01,819
I think it was about a week. And

113
00:04:01,819 --> 00:04:03,979
we lived in a small community, and he,

114
00:04:05,819 --> 00:04:07,759
they couldn't find his body. There's a big

115
00:04:08,155 --> 00:04:10,555
search for him. Like, everybody was looking. A

116
00:04:10,555 --> 00:04:12,594
lot of rumors were flying. Everything was happening.

117
00:04:12,594 --> 00:04:13,294
It's just

118
00:04:13,594 --> 00:04:15,294
chaotic. And I remember,

119
00:04:16,154 --> 00:04:18,875
pretty pretty vividly police visiting the home on

120
00:04:18,875 --> 00:04:19,774
and off, reporting

121
00:04:20,235 --> 00:04:23,389
any findings, and my mom just being obviously

122
00:04:23,449 --> 00:04:24,189
very distraught.

123
00:04:24,569 --> 00:04:25,129
There was,

124
00:04:26,009 --> 00:04:28,029
six kids in my family at the time

125
00:04:28,290 --> 00:04:28,790
and,

126
00:04:29,370 --> 00:04:32,810
young and varying levels of confusion of what

127
00:04:32,810 --> 00:04:35,069
was going on, not a lot of explanation.

128
00:04:35,985 --> 00:04:38,964
And they did eventually find his body,

129
00:04:41,264 --> 00:04:42,564
yeah, about a week later.

130
00:04:43,104 --> 00:04:43,604
And,

131
00:04:44,064 --> 00:04:45,745
it was summertime. It was

132
00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:52,040
this is not an easy story, Roland, but,

133
00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:57,160
my mom found out during that time that

134
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:57,979
she was pregnant.

135
00:04:58,519 --> 00:04:59,019
So,

136
00:04:59,399 --> 00:05:00,915
seven seven kids.

137
00:05:01,395 --> 00:05:02,455
She didn't have

138
00:05:03,074 --> 00:05:05,395
a degree. She didn't have education. There's a

139
00:05:05,395 --> 00:05:05,975
lot of

140
00:05:06,435 --> 00:05:06,935
debt.

141
00:05:07,795 --> 00:05:09,795
It was just a really hard time for

142
00:05:09,795 --> 00:05:11,475
my mom. And now as a parent, I

143
00:05:11,475 --> 00:05:11,975
really

144
00:05:12,754 --> 00:05:14,615
empathize with her. But,

145
00:05:15,395 --> 00:05:17,910
anyway, there was I'll just tell my story

146
00:05:17,910 --> 00:05:19,110
and then we can fill in the gaps

147
00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:21,029
for the other part. I was never told

148
00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:22,949
how he died. It was very I knew

149
00:05:22,949 --> 00:05:25,269
it was very shameful. And I was young

150
00:05:25,269 --> 00:05:27,110
at the time, yes, but this like I

151
00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:27,430
said,

152
00:05:28,310 --> 00:05:30,314
I felt like it became an orphan overnight.

153
00:05:30,314 --> 00:05:33,295
My mom went into understandably pretty deep depression

154
00:05:34,475 --> 00:05:35,615
and was newly pregnant.

155
00:05:35,915 --> 00:05:36,975
No family around,

156
00:05:37,595 --> 00:05:40,415
very small community responding in various ways.

157
00:05:40,875 --> 00:05:41,035
And,

158
00:05:42,629 --> 00:05:44,730
everybody for years and years

159
00:05:45,030 --> 00:05:47,910
asking me details of his death, and I

160
00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:49,050
didn't know what to say.

161
00:05:50,389 --> 00:05:51,910
All I knew it was it was a

162
00:05:51,910 --> 00:05:52,970
shameful thing,

163
00:05:53,270 --> 00:05:55,850
and nobody would talk about it. Closed casket,

164
00:05:56,555 --> 00:05:57,454
no explanations,

165
00:05:58,235 --> 00:05:59,375
no way to grieve,

166
00:06:00,314 --> 00:06:01,615
no adults to

167
00:06:02,074 --> 00:06:03,055
comfort me.

168
00:06:04,794 --> 00:06:05,615
Very hard.

169
00:06:06,235 --> 00:06:07,694
Every one of us,

170
00:06:11,870 --> 00:06:13,509
every one of my siblings handled it in

171
00:06:13,509 --> 00:06:14,689
a very different ways.

172
00:06:16,189 --> 00:06:18,670
And those are those repercussions are the things

173
00:06:18,670 --> 00:06:20,830
that the reason I really became a therapist

174
00:06:20,830 --> 00:06:21,330
because,

175
00:06:24,314 --> 00:06:25,935
just learning how we all process

176
00:06:26,555 --> 00:06:28,875
trauma and how we because of that event,

177
00:06:28,875 --> 00:06:29,854
we all became

178
00:06:30,634 --> 00:06:33,115
trauma magnets in a sense because of those

179
00:06:33,115 --> 00:06:36,794
experiences, that trauma that honestly was generational that

180
00:06:36,794 --> 00:06:39,240
started with my dad. Well, not actually, not

181
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,720
even him, his parents, his grandparents that they

182
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:43,560
didn't know how to work through or maybe

183
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,420
just chose not to work through.

184
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,980
And that continues to affect,

185
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:49,339
unfortunately,

186
00:06:50,274 --> 00:06:52,914
even my own children, and I'm really trying

187
00:06:52,914 --> 00:06:54,294
hard to break those patterns.

188
00:06:56,035 --> 00:06:56,354
Now

189
00:06:56,995 --> 00:06:59,235
so that's a portion of my story that

190
00:06:59,235 --> 00:07:01,254
I almost didn't tell anything. But

191
00:07:01,794 --> 00:07:03,394
Well, at the same time, you also told

192
00:07:03,394 --> 00:07:05,235
us everything. I mean, it's a you know,

193
00:07:05,235 --> 00:07:07,160
it's I'll I'll tell you this. It's a

194
00:07:07,379 --> 00:07:08,360
there's a lot

195
00:07:08,819 --> 00:07:10,819
of directions to go here. I think the

196
00:07:10,819 --> 00:07:12,360
ones that I would love to prioritize

197
00:07:12,660 --> 00:07:13,160
first

198
00:07:13,779 --> 00:07:14,439
would be

199
00:07:15,459 --> 00:07:17,539
what was going on for you and what

200
00:07:17,539 --> 00:07:19,459
was going on for your father. I think

201
00:07:19,459 --> 00:07:21,125
that's kind of the highlight. You know, I

202
00:07:21,125 --> 00:07:22,245
think that's the thing I would love to

203
00:07:22,245 --> 00:07:23,625
just get right to is,

204
00:07:25,925 --> 00:07:27,605
to me, those are the most important things.

205
00:07:27,845 --> 00:07:29,685
You know, it's what this did to your

206
00:07:29,685 --> 00:07:31,605
reality and what his reality was at the

207
00:07:31,605 --> 00:07:32,105
time.

208
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,639
Can I ask how much you know about

209
00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:36,399
what was going on with his mental health?

210
00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:37,920
I mean, my guess is probably not a

211
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:38,319
lot.

212
00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:42,480
Has anything come to light since then and

213
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:43,379
now around

214
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,680
what he was dealing with and for how

215
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:46,180
long?

216
00:07:47,275 --> 00:07:49,514
Yeah. I don't remember which part I shared,

217
00:07:49,514 --> 00:07:51,115
but, yeah, I didn't find out till he

218
00:07:51,194 --> 00:07:53,435
till I was in college, actually. Really? And

219
00:07:53,435 --> 00:07:55,995
my brother-in-law told me. There was my older

220
00:07:55,995 --> 00:07:58,634
siblings were told bits and pieces, but I

221
00:07:58,634 --> 00:08:00,600
responded in a we all like I said,

222
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,520
all of us responded in different ways. Some

223
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,600
of them, like, really were were looking for

224
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,379
answers, but I felt

225
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,319
I it's still so complicated. Like, you see

226
00:08:11,319 --> 00:08:12,759
those movies and you're like, well, of course,

227
00:08:12,759 --> 00:08:14,600
you wanna know all the answers, but it

228
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:15,100
felt

229
00:08:15,904 --> 00:08:18,384
so heavy and scary and dark that I

230
00:08:18,384 --> 00:08:19,125
was afraid

231
00:08:19,504 --> 00:08:21,345
to know all the answers. Mhmm. So I

232
00:08:21,345 --> 00:08:23,264
didn't seek them the way maybe some of

233
00:08:23,264 --> 00:08:23,925
them did,

234
00:08:25,745 --> 00:08:27,685
and that still kinda surprises me.

235
00:08:28,329 --> 00:08:31,149
But I have asked questions since then. And,

236
00:08:33,289 --> 00:08:34,730
I'm still trying to remember what was your

237
00:08:34,730 --> 00:08:36,169
question. How much did I Oh, yeah. I

238
00:08:36,169 --> 00:08:38,009
just I'm curious because you're a therapist. And

239
00:08:38,009 --> 00:08:39,610
so the cool thing is you can you

240
00:08:39,610 --> 00:08:40,110
can

241
00:08:40,664 --> 00:08:42,985
speculate probably better than other people could speculate

242
00:08:42,985 --> 00:08:44,205
about his inner world.

243
00:08:45,144 --> 00:08:47,304
But, yeah, what, you know, I guess kind

244
00:08:47,304 --> 00:08:48,044
of two questions.

245
00:08:48,745 --> 00:08:51,225
As, you know, from what you remember, what

246
00:08:51,225 --> 00:08:53,544
did you feel and see at the time

247
00:08:53,544 --> 00:08:54,044
before

248
00:08:54,730 --> 00:08:56,570
this happened? Did you were you able to

249
00:08:56,570 --> 00:08:58,570
experience some of the shame that was going

250
00:08:58,570 --> 00:08:59,629
on inside of him?

251
00:09:03,610 --> 00:09:05,529
No. I think I was too young then

252
00:09:05,529 --> 00:09:06,090
by getting,

253
00:09:06,730 --> 00:09:08,990
kind of the after story is more mine.

254
00:09:10,154 --> 00:09:11,914
And I remember somebody telling me, like, oh,

255
00:09:11,914 --> 00:09:13,754
you were too young. It didn't impact you.

256
00:09:13,754 --> 00:09:16,394
But it's interesting how, like, you especially even

257
00:09:16,394 --> 00:09:17,695
my two year old sister.

258
00:09:18,475 --> 00:09:19,134
And, honestly,

259
00:09:20,554 --> 00:09:22,669
my my my beatest brother,

260
00:09:23,289 --> 00:09:26,090
probably impacted him the most. I don't remember

261
00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:28,730
much about my dad's mental health. I just

262
00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:30,730
asked a lot of questions to family members

263
00:09:30,730 --> 00:09:33,470
after that, much later, actually. Like,

264
00:09:33,785 --> 00:09:36,045
what he was like, how how he was,

265
00:09:36,825 --> 00:09:38,585
how that all kind of went down. And,

266
00:09:38,585 --> 00:09:39,085
honestly,

267
00:09:40,345 --> 00:09:42,504
I guess here I can share, like, what

268
00:09:42,504 --> 00:09:43,804
happened. Yeah.

269
00:09:44,904 --> 00:09:45,884
So he

270
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,000
he had experienced a lot of trauma in

271
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,159
his early life with his family member. Married

272
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,440
he had an alcoholic father. Excuse me. And

273
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:56,419
there was a lot,

274
00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:58,419
with that.

275
00:09:58,799 --> 00:09:59,299
And

276
00:10:00,174 --> 00:10:00,915
a lot of,

277
00:10:01,295 --> 00:10:04,274
abuse, varying kinds stories that I won't share

278
00:10:04,815 --> 00:10:06,274
because other people to tell,

279
00:10:07,215 --> 00:10:07,715
but

280
00:10:08,335 --> 00:10:08,835
he

281
00:10:09,295 --> 00:10:09,795
learned

282
00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:12,815
pretty early. I don't really know the age.

283
00:10:12,815 --> 00:10:14,335
I don't know if anyone knows when he

284
00:10:14,335 --> 00:10:15,715
started looking at pornography,

285
00:10:16,059 --> 00:10:18,460
but I kind of see pornography as the

286
00:10:18,460 --> 00:10:21,740
gateway drug. Mhmm. And from there, he went

287
00:10:21,740 --> 00:10:24,800
into the military, and he learned about

288
00:10:25,420 --> 00:10:25,920
autoerotic

289
00:10:26,379 --> 00:10:26,879
asphyxiation.

290
00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:29,580
Mhmm. You know much about that? Yes. Mhmm.

291
00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:30,080
Okay.

292
00:10:34,565 --> 00:10:36,485
And, I don't know how much you want

293
00:10:36,485 --> 00:10:37,845
me to share on here about what that

294
00:10:37,845 --> 00:10:39,924
is either. So Yeah. I mean, I I

295
00:10:39,924 --> 00:10:41,924
I think you should probably if you're comfortable

296
00:10:41,924 --> 00:10:43,524
with it, I think you probably should because

297
00:10:43,524 --> 00:10:44,985
I think people need to understand,

298
00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:48,620
and most listeners know this stuff progresses and

299
00:10:48,620 --> 00:10:51,100
your brain's really smart. If your brain finds

300
00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:52,700
a way of getting more of what it

301
00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:53,200
wants,

302
00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:55,839
regardless of whether it's risky or there's,

303
00:10:56,860 --> 00:10:59,419
you know, legal consequences, life, you know, health

304
00:10:59,419 --> 00:10:59,919
consequences,

305
00:11:00,345 --> 00:11:02,264
You know, I I if you're comfortable sharing

306
00:11:02,264 --> 00:11:03,944
with it, I know it's painful to kinda

307
00:11:03,944 --> 00:11:05,784
talk about, but at the same time, I

308
00:11:05,784 --> 00:11:07,245
do think people need to understand

309
00:11:07,865 --> 00:11:11,064
the what what the brain's capable of when

310
00:11:11,064 --> 00:11:12,824
it wants what it wants. And I think

311
00:11:12,824 --> 00:11:14,424
that's kind of the highlight of the story

312
00:11:14,424 --> 00:11:16,039
here is I I don't,

313
00:11:16,820 --> 00:11:18,419
I really doubt that this was something that

314
00:11:18,419 --> 00:11:20,279
he wanted to start doing.

315
00:11:20,659 --> 00:11:22,820
My guess is he, you know, discovered it

316
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,500
like a lot of us discover it and

317
00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:27,000
his brain said, wow, this is more efficient.

318
00:11:27,235 --> 00:11:28,754
Is a more efficient way of the other

319
00:11:28,754 --> 00:11:30,434
thing. I'm gonna start doing this more and

320
00:11:30,434 --> 00:11:32,514
more often. And and it progresses, unfortunately, to

321
00:11:32,514 --> 00:11:33,335
the point where,

322
00:11:33,794 --> 00:11:36,294
just like my story, there there's legal consequences

323
00:11:36,434 --> 00:11:38,514
and health consequences and in your case, fatal

324
00:11:38,514 --> 00:11:41,100
consequences. So, if you're comfortable sharing with the

325
00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:41,600
audience,

326
00:11:42,220 --> 00:11:43,659
I I think that I think it would

327
00:11:43,659 --> 00:11:45,679
I think it would impact people to understand

328
00:11:45,740 --> 00:11:47,120
kind of how this thing evolves.

329
00:11:47,659 --> 00:11:48,480
Yeah. Absolutely.

330
00:11:50,299 --> 00:11:51,820
So I had no idea what that was,

331
00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:53,235
first of all, and I didn't even

332
00:11:53,714 --> 00:11:56,514
really get details until college like I talked

333
00:11:56,514 --> 00:11:59,634
about. And then it was very confusing because

334
00:11:59,634 --> 00:12:00,855
I think I grew up

335
00:12:01,394 --> 00:12:03,794
thinking it was inevitable, his death, and then

336
00:12:03,794 --> 00:12:05,095
I realized that

337
00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:06,950
this was,

338
00:12:08,450 --> 00:12:11,330
I guess, a choice. I mean, there's debate

339
00:12:11,330 --> 00:12:13,490
on some of that even. But it was

340
00:12:13,490 --> 00:12:14,529
a choice that he,

341
00:12:15,889 --> 00:12:17,490
started this this

342
00:12:19,475 --> 00:12:21,154
I don't know. Habit, what you would call

343
00:12:21,154 --> 00:12:22,754
it, but where he,

344
00:12:23,475 --> 00:12:25,815
he learned that you if you restrict airflow,

345
00:12:25,955 --> 00:12:26,675
like, you can,

346
00:12:27,394 --> 00:12:30,215
suffocate or choke and do different things whether

347
00:12:30,274 --> 00:12:32,274
with a belt or a rope, all these

348
00:12:32,274 --> 00:12:33,654
different methods potentially.

349
00:12:34,019 --> 00:12:36,179
But where you restrict airflow and you begin

350
00:12:36,179 --> 00:12:38,200
to pass out and you combine that with,

351
00:12:39,059 --> 00:12:39,559
climaxing,

352
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:42,759
sexual arousal, and it really,

353
00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:46,100
intensifies it. Now I've never heard of something

354
00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:48,340
like that. So we're talking masturbation here. So,

355
00:12:48,340 --> 00:12:49,800
like, where you're able to,

356
00:12:50,575 --> 00:12:53,615
combine that with that passing out, it creates

357
00:12:53,615 --> 00:12:55,315
some sort of high. Mhmm. And

358
00:12:56,014 --> 00:12:56,514
I

359
00:12:56,894 --> 00:12:58,654
personally have never experienced anything like that. I

360
00:12:58,654 --> 00:13:00,414
don't know how addicting it is, but from

361
00:13:00,414 --> 00:13:02,274
what people have told me, it's very addicting.

362
00:13:02,335 --> 00:13:03,855
Mhmm. And the other thing that people told

363
00:13:03,855 --> 00:13:05,715
me that have made this even more complicated

364
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:06,730
is,

365
00:13:08,309 --> 00:13:10,709
that the more people that know about this,

366
00:13:10,709 --> 00:13:12,549
the more deaths there are because a lot

367
00:13:12,549 --> 00:13:13,990
of people don't know about it. So then

368
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:16,230
I also felt like this next left layer

369
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:18,309
of, like, well, then I definitely can't talk

370
00:13:18,309 --> 00:13:21,129
about it because it's gonna kill people. And

371
00:13:21,925 --> 00:13:24,085
so on so many levels, I can't tell

372
00:13:24,085 --> 00:13:26,345
you how complicated this grief was.

373
00:13:26,884 --> 00:13:29,125
Not only could we not ever know about

374
00:13:29,125 --> 00:13:30,725
it until much later, but,

375
00:13:31,285 --> 00:13:34,165
very hard to heal from it, very hard

376
00:13:34,165 --> 00:13:34,665
to

377
00:13:36,159 --> 00:13:38,159
even talk to family members about it. It's

378
00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:40,799
essentially just not talked about ever. And so

379
00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:43,279
this grief just gets, like, stored in your

380
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:44,659
body, and it's just

381
00:13:45,839 --> 00:13:46,339
insane.

382
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,480
And my heart goes out to anybody that

383
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,105
has had it, but I truly I don't

384
00:13:50,105 --> 00:13:52,424
know that I've ever I don't I haven't.

385
00:13:52,424 --> 00:13:53,944
I haven't ever met anyone that's had a

386
00:13:53,944 --> 00:13:54,845
similar situation.

387
00:13:55,544 --> 00:13:58,184
But even if they had, people don't talk

388
00:13:58,184 --> 00:14:00,264
about it. Mhmm. So it'd be something maybe

389
00:14:00,264 --> 00:14:02,745
like this, like a forum or something that

390
00:14:02,745 --> 00:14:04,524
people might mention it. But

391
00:14:05,429 --> 00:14:07,769
I have my entire life felt

392
00:14:08,149 --> 00:14:10,090
so alone in my grief.

393
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:13,350
And you know how many people ask how

394
00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:15,210
your your father dies? Like,

395
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:16,970
everybody. And

396
00:14:18,184 --> 00:14:19,884
I and I feel like I'm perpetuating

397
00:14:20,345 --> 00:14:21,245
these lies,

398
00:14:21,705 --> 00:14:23,644
but I also don't know how to

399
00:14:24,504 --> 00:14:25,245
help people

400
00:14:25,625 --> 00:14:27,865
and save people and protect people. Like, there

401
00:14:27,945 --> 00:14:29,804
there's just so many layers of

402
00:14:30,184 --> 00:14:31,644
complicated grief here,

403
00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:34,549
that began with my dad's story. And

404
00:14:35,170 --> 00:14:37,750
I just zooming out a little bit more,

405
00:14:38,370 --> 00:14:40,129
I kind of alluded it to it, but

406
00:14:40,129 --> 00:14:42,629
my little brother that my mom was pregnant

407
00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:43,190
with,

408
00:14:44,514 --> 00:14:47,235
I I have so much grief with him

409
00:14:47,235 --> 00:14:47,894
too because

410
00:14:49,554 --> 00:14:51,235
he grew up not being,

411
00:14:53,714 --> 00:14:54,214
cherished.

412
00:14:55,235 --> 00:14:57,235
And I I truly believe my mom did

413
00:14:57,235 --> 00:14:58,455
the best that she could,

414
00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:59,700
but

415
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:01,299
he was number seven.

416
00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:02,339
And

417
00:15:03,679 --> 00:15:05,039
I just can't tell you, like

418
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,179
anyway, he grew up, and he,

419
00:15:08,879 --> 00:15:10,740
developed pretty strong addictions

420
00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:12,879
himself. And he

421
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:14,740
a couple years ago,

422
00:15:15,495 --> 00:15:18,134
I think going on three, he overdosed from

423
00:15:18,134 --> 00:15:18,634
heroin.

424
00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:23,434
Yeah. Because it's a hard story.

425
00:15:24,295 --> 00:15:25,115
Mhmm. But

426
00:15:25,735 --> 00:15:27,495
you can understand why he's hesitant to come

427
00:15:27,495 --> 00:15:29,835
on today, maybe. Yeah. And and

428
00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:32,529
I I

429
00:15:33,789 --> 00:15:36,750
I so empathize with the fear because I

430
00:15:36,830 --> 00:15:38,529
I've heard the same statistic that,

431
00:15:39,389 --> 00:15:42,509
similar to experimenting with drugs, people hear about

432
00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:43,730
it, they become curious,

433
00:15:44,174 --> 00:15:46,174
They try it, and they become addicted. So

434
00:15:46,174 --> 00:15:48,274
I I can I can empathize with the,

435
00:15:49,855 --> 00:15:51,294
reluctance to share this, but at the same

436
00:15:51,294 --> 00:15:52,674
time, I also feel like,

437
00:15:53,054 --> 00:15:54,575
I agree with you? I think the wrong

438
00:15:54,575 --> 00:15:56,174
thing to do is not share it. I

439
00:15:56,174 --> 00:15:57,455
think I think it needs to be shared

440
00:15:57,455 --> 00:15:59,475
in this cons in this context of,

441
00:16:00,149 --> 00:16:01,870
you know, most more than likely your father

442
00:16:01,870 --> 00:16:03,389
to have the same experience. It was it

443
00:16:03,389 --> 00:16:05,709
was a one it was, you know, probably

444
00:16:05,709 --> 00:16:07,549
meant to be a one time thing and,

445
00:16:07,789 --> 00:16:09,549
did not turn into a one time thing.

446
00:16:09,549 --> 00:16:11,490
I think this the nature of,

447
00:16:13,014 --> 00:16:14,394
excuse me, the

448
00:16:15,014 --> 00:16:16,634
story here is the progression,

449
00:16:17,174 --> 00:16:19,095
that this and this that this goes through.

450
00:16:19,095 --> 00:16:20,455
And this is the biggest reason why I

451
00:16:20,455 --> 00:16:22,394
wanted to share this is I think

452
00:16:23,174 --> 00:16:24,774
I I think it's not talked about, and

453
00:16:24,774 --> 00:16:26,695
I think that also it's talked to it's,

454
00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:30,299
I don't think people are honoring the progression

455
00:16:30,299 --> 00:16:33,360
here. You know, it doesn't stay at pornography

456
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:34,559
for a lot of people.

457
00:16:35,019 --> 00:16:35,679
It progresses

458
00:16:36,059 --> 00:16:37,740
to a lot of things, and it,

459
00:16:38,299 --> 00:16:40,620
and these things have huge consequences. And, Kendra,

460
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:43,394
I appreciate you sharing your story in that

461
00:16:43,394 --> 00:16:44,034
way because,

462
00:16:47,955 --> 00:16:50,274
and I'm sorry that you had experience and

463
00:16:50,274 --> 00:16:51,554
had to share about what happened to your

464
00:16:51,554 --> 00:16:52,674
brother. I know that was not the point

465
00:16:52,674 --> 00:16:54,034
of the the story, but at the same

466
00:16:54,034 --> 00:16:55,475
time, I think it's a really important piece

467
00:16:55,475 --> 00:16:57,360
to bring up is this. I think we

468
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,920
need to look at the chain of events

469
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,840
here. You know, when we look at betrayal

470
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,240
trauma, imagine what that can do to the

471
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:05,779
children who are still in the home,

472
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,920
or the unborn children that are still in

473
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:08,720
the home. And,

474
00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:10,960
I do. I think I think this,

475
00:17:13,265 --> 00:17:14,944
the thing that I think the impact this

476
00:17:14,944 --> 00:17:16,464
is having on me as you share it

477
00:17:16,464 --> 00:17:16,964
is

478
00:17:18,224 --> 00:17:20,224
to me that, you know, when you said

479
00:17:20,224 --> 00:17:21,904
some people don't feel like it's a choice,

480
00:17:22,144 --> 00:17:23,744
and there's a debate around that.

481
00:17:24,384 --> 00:17:26,144
Obviously, everything's a choice, but I think the

482
00:17:26,144 --> 00:17:28,085
debate the debate behind it is,

483
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:30,379
at the time, his

484
00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:33,000
brain made the choice and decided it was

485
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,200
worth it. And so, but again, have he

486
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:36,679
would he have made that choice in the

487
00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:38,859
right mind? That's the that's the debate is,

488
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,000
is it really a choice if the person's

489
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,845
sick? But but the the thing that I

490
00:17:42,845 --> 00:17:45,164
wanted to say there was I think the

491
00:17:45,164 --> 00:17:47,264
thing that I that has kept me

492
00:17:47,565 --> 00:17:48,304
the soberest

493
00:17:48,924 --> 00:17:50,065
is what you're sharing.

494
00:17:51,005 --> 00:17:52,684
I think I I think the brain I

495
00:17:52,684 --> 00:17:53,184
think

496
00:17:53,644 --> 00:17:55,804
well, I won't speak for everyone. My brain

497
00:17:55,804 --> 00:17:57,299
doesn't care enough about me.

498
00:17:58,259 --> 00:18:00,440
But when I add data like what you're

499
00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:01,559
giving us,

500
00:18:02,660 --> 00:18:05,700
that makes me want to stay sober and

501
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:07,779
not view pornography ever again when I hear

502
00:18:07,779 --> 00:18:09,940
stories like that. So it's it's it's bigger

503
00:18:09,940 --> 00:18:11,724
than me. I don't want this to I

504
00:18:11,724 --> 00:18:13,964
don't want stories like what just happened with

505
00:18:13,964 --> 00:18:16,764
you or this overwhelming shame and this progressing

506
00:18:16,764 --> 00:18:18,924
addiction to affect other families. And so I

507
00:18:18,924 --> 00:18:20,684
I appreciate you sharing the details that you

508
00:18:20,684 --> 00:18:21,184
shared.

509
00:18:23,859 --> 00:18:26,099
Now back to you. This this who knows?

510
00:18:26,099 --> 00:18:27,539
This could be harder than this could be

511
00:18:27,539 --> 00:18:29,880
harder than than sharing about others.

512
00:18:30,339 --> 00:18:31,000
I know.

513
00:18:32,259 --> 00:18:33,859
But I do think it's an important piece

514
00:18:33,859 --> 00:18:35,460
of the story, if not the most important

515
00:18:35,460 --> 00:18:36,899
piece of the story because you're here with

516
00:18:36,899 --> 00:18:37,559
us today.

517
00:18:40,174 --> 00:18:42,434
What was your reality like?

518
00:18:42,975 --> 00:18:44,414
You know, you kind of explained to us

519
00:18:44,414 --> 00:18:46,515
the confusion. So now you found out

520
00:18:47,615 --> 00:18:49,695
this, you know, shaped your entire it's the

521
00:18:49,695 --> 00:18:51,134
reason you're a therapist. It's the reason you

522
00:18:51,134 --> 00:18:52,335
do the work that you do.

523
00:18:52,815 --> 00:18:54,630
Talk to us about that. What happened to

524
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:57,289
your reality when you got this news in

525
00:18:57,589 --> 00:18:58,490
college you said?

526
00:18:59,670 --> 00:19:01,349
What did this do to you initially? And

527
00:19:01,349 --> 00:19:02,869
I I wanna know the whole breadth of

528
00:19:02,869 --> 00:19:05,269
it. Was there, you know, initially shame? Did

529
00:19:05,269 --> 00:19:06,950
you had to hide this and conceal it?

530
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:08,825
You know, what did it make you feel

531
00:19:08,825 --> 00:19:10,744
like? Talk to us about the initial kind

532
00:19:10,744 --> 00:19:12,904
of discovery and what happened to your reality

533
00:19:12,904 --> 00:19:13,965
at that moment. Yeah.

534
00:19:16,265 --> 00:19:16,924
I think,

535
00:19:17,305 --> 00:19:19,164
again, very complicated, very

536
00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:22,430
all over the place. It it truly felt

537
00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:24,450
like I was grieving for the first time.

538
00:19:24,509 --> 00:19:25,650
Like, that lodged

539
00:19:26,670 --> 00:19:28,850
stuck emotion, that trauma,

540
00:19:29,309 --> 00:19:32,049
it was really needing to get out. So

541
00:19:32,110 --> 00:19:32,769
I remember,

542
00:19:33,634 --> 00:19:35,555
these are random details, but I was, like,

543
00:19:35,555 --> 00:19:37,235
sucking on a candy when I was told,

544
00:19:37,235 --> 00:19:39,075
and I started, like, choking. I was, like,

545
00:19:39,075 --> 00:19:41,154
hyperventilating. I was, like, crying so hard, and

546
00:19:41,154 --> 00:19:42,595
I was like, this is such a big

547
00:19:42,595 --> 00:19:45,654
response for something that happened so long ago.

548
00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:48,980
But I realized that even though I didn't

549
00:19:48,980 --> 00:19:50,359
know details, I knew

550
00:19:51,059 --> 00:19:51,559
enough,

551
00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:53,619
and it had shaped so much of my

552
00:19:53,619 --> 00:19:54,440
life. Like,

553
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:56,279
I was

554
00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:58,980
incapable of, like, a healthy relationship at that

555
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:59,799
time because

556
00:20:00,184 --> 00:20:03,085
of that all of the repercussions of that.

557
00:20:03,544 --> 00:20:05,164
I said, like, we're trauma magnets,

558
00:20:06,825 --> 00:20:08,585
which is a a really normal thing that

559
00:20:08,585 --> 00:20:11,085
happens after something big like that.

560
00:20:12,424 --> 00:20:14,525
Incapable of, like, having healthy relationships

561
00:20:15,144 --> 00:20:15,644
with

562
00:20:16,289 --> 00:20:16,789
men

563
00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:18,390
and feeling really

564
00:20:19,009 --> 00:20:21,509
fiercely independent where I'm still

565
00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:23,910
still trying to navigate that,

566
00:20:24,529 --> 00:20:25,269
not having

567
00:20:26,130 --> 00:20:28,130
parents throughout all that. But, yeah, when I

568
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:29,830
find from when I found out,

569
00:20:30,714 --> 00:20:33,274
I it was interesting. Like, I stopped being

570
00:20:33,274 --> 00:20:34,815
so angry with my mother

571
00:20:35,514 --> 00:20:37,194
even though, like, I felt lied to my

572
00:20:37,194 --> 00:20:37,855
whole life.

573
00:20:39,355 --> 00:20:39,855
I

574
00:20:40,474 --> 00:20:41,454
instead felt,

575
00:20:41,835 --> 00:20:43,914
very conflicted where I put my dad on

576
00:20:43,914 --> 00:20:46,254
a pedestal, and suddenly, I

577
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:50,930
I was mad at him, but I was

578
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:51,990
also, like,

579
00:20:52,609 --> 00:20:54,869
sad sad that I was mad at him,

580
00:20:56,130 --> 00:20:57,670
because I can't imagine

581
00:20:58,465 --> 00:20:58,965
dying

582
00:21:00,945 --> 00:21:01,845
in that way

583
00:21:02,465 --> 00:21:05,345
and knowing what you're leaving behind with your

584
00:21:05,345 --> 00:21:05,845
family.

585
00:21:07,105 --> 00:21:09,585
Like, my heart really goes out to him.

586
00:21:09,585 --> 00:21:11,184
Like, I don't know if you believe in

587
00:21:11,184 --> 00:21:12,805
the afterlife, but I think

588
00:21:13,259 --> 00:21:15,099
it doesn't matter about heaven and hell. It's

589
00:21:15,099 --> 00:21:16,799
like that would be a personal hell,

590
00:21:17,259 --> 00:21:17,759
watching

591
00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:21,119
the the ripple effect of your choices

592
00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:24,299
and not being able to rectify it, not

593
00:21:24,299 --> 00:21:26,400
being there to, like, clean up thymus.

594
00:21:27,524 --> 00:21:30,345
And instead, it went to everyone you love

595
00:21:30,724 --> 00:21:32,264
so much. Mhmm.

596
00:21:36,244 --> 00:21:36,984
So I

597
00:21:37,605 --> 00:21:38,664
I started therapy

598
00:21:39,605 --> 00:21:40,105
Yeah.

599
00:21:40,890 --> 00:21:42,970
Which was very important. Mhmm. And I did

600
00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:45,769
that throughout my, my bachelor's and my master's,

601
00:21:45,769 --> 00:21:48,830
and, I was determined to stop these generational

602
00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:49,470
patterns.

603
00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:50,830
And now

604
00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:52,830
there's a lot of

605
00:21:54,095 --> 00:21:56,015
there's a lot of addictions. I spoke to

606
00:21:56,015 --> 00:21:57,695
this on your podcast before, but,

607
00:21:59,535 --> 00:22:00,835
or you on mine, I think.

608
00:22:02,174 --> 00:22:03,555
There's a lot of addictions

609
00:22:03,934 --> 00:22:05,474
that are culturally acceptable.

610
00:22:05,775 --> 00:22:07,549
Yes. And mine was productivity

611
00:22:07,929 --> 00:22:09,390
and, high performing.

612
00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:12,650
Still is. I have to be very careful

613
00:22:12,650 --> 00:22:13,390
of that.

614
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:16,409
But all my family members,

615
00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:19,690
developed different ones, some more adaptive, some less

616
00:22:19,690 --> 00:22:20,085
so.

617
00:22:20,565 --> 00:22:21,065
And

618
00:22:21,924 --> 00:22:23,924
I patted myself on the back a little

619
00:22:23,924 --> 00:22:25,444
bit for some of mine, but now I

620
00:22:25,444 --> 00:22:27,365
don't see it that way. Like, now I'm

621
00:22:27,365 --> 00:22:28,184
still, like,

622
00:22:28,484 --> 00:22:31,065
trying to set those things down and heal

623
00:22:31,204 --> 00:22:31,704
and

624
00:22:34,259 --> 00:22:35,380
be honest and,

625
00:22:35,779 --> 00:22:38,680
transparent with my kids and heal so that

626
00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:41,160
it stops.

627
00:22:42,019 --> 00:22:44,100
I'm so tired of this pattern that's been

628
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:45,240
existing for generations.

629
00:22:47,115 --> 00:22:48,954
So that's what I'm doing. And I don't

630
00:22:48,954 --> 00:22:51,934
always win, honestly, Roland. Like, I'm trying, but,

631
00:22:53,275 --> 00:22:53,775
hopefully,

632
00:22:54,875 --> 00:22:56,815
my dad sees the work that I'm doing

633
00:22:56,875 --> 00:22:59,214
and that matters. Do you know? Mhmm.

634
00:22:59,690 --> 00:23:01,069
Yeah. It's a powerful why.

635
00:23:01,609 --> 00:23:04,250
You'll you'll you'll I'm sure everybody listening to

636
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:05,230
this can feel

637
00:23:05,769 --> 00:23:06,250
the,

638
00:23:07,049 --> 00:23:08,809
impact of this, and I'm sure they're changing.

639
00:23:08,809 --> 00:23:10,429
It's a it's the strongest. I,

640
00:23:11,450 --> 00:23:13,289
it's why I felt, you know, because you

641
00:23:13,289 --> 00:23:14,684
think I wanted to do this.

642
00:23:15,245 --> 00:23:16,924
I get I get I have people follow

643
00:23:16,924 --> 00:23:19,005
me in my other I I was before

644
00:23:19,005 --> 00:23:20,865
I got into this space, I was extremely

645
00:23:21,085 --> 00:23:23,184
influential and am in multiple industries.

646
00:23:23,965 --> 00:23:25,985
I'm very good at doing that,

647
00:23:27,005 --> 00:23:29,164
climbing the ladder and putting myself in positions

648
00:23:29,164 --> 00:23:30,305
of of power and influence.

649
00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:31,320
And,

650
00:23:32,099 --> 00:23:33,160
you know, Facebook,

651
00:23:34,259 --> 00:23:35,700
shares with them my,

652
00:23:36,180 --> 00:23:37,700
my this account. And,

653
00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:40,019
they have some of them have followed me.

654
00:23:40,019 --> 00:23:42,500
And, you know, now they have discovered all

655
00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:43,940
of this. And, you know, it's a in

656
00:23:43,940 --> 00:23:45,779
the beginning, it was hard for me because,

657
00:23:46,795 --> 00:23:49,035
you know, I'm battling egoic things of my

658
00:23:49,035 --> 00:23:49,835
own. Right? You know,

659
00:23:50,315 --> 00:23:51,855
what are they thinking of me now?

660
00:23:52,154 --> 00:23:53,275
Am I gonna be able to speak on

661
00:23:53,275 --> 00:23:55,275
stage anymore now that people under know what

662
00:23:55,275 --> 00:23:56,734
I did to my wife?

663
00:23:57,275 --> 00:23:59,035
You know, so there there's that internal conflict.

664
00:23:59,035 --> 00:23:59,855
But, you know,

665
00:24:00,634 --> 00:24:01,515
just like you, I

666
00:24:02,329 --> 00:24:05,049
what matters most to me now is making

667
00:24:05,049 --> 00:24:06,750
sure this happens to nobody else.

668
00:24:07,849 --> 00:24:08,589
It's just

669
00:24:08,970 --> 00:24:10,890
if I could prevent this from happening to

670
00:24:10,890 --> 00:24:11,869
one young man,

671
00:24:12,250 --> 00:24:14,490
that would be enough for me. Just one

672
00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:15,309
young man,

673
00:24:15,934 --> 00:24:17,694
that would be enough because what what I

674
00:24:17,694 --> 00:24:19,694
had to deal with, it it I don't

675
00:24:19,694 --> 00:24:20,894
know if I'll ever be able to escape

676
00:24:20,894 --> 00:24:22,575
it. I mean, it's it's just it's it's

677
00:24:22,575 --> 00:24:24,654
it's taking all hands on deck, and I

678
00:24:24,734 --> 00:24:27,390
I'm just haunted by this chain of events

679
00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:28,990
that happened in my life and what's happening.

680
00:24:28,990 --> 00:24:30,910
So I, I just wanna honor you for

681
00:24:30,910 --> 00:24:32,670
taking the time to do this because it's,

682
00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:34,509
I know it's having an effect. What did

683
00:24:34,509 --> 00:24:35,490
this do

684
00:24:36,589 --> 00:24:39,490
to your view of sex and sexuality?

685
00:24:40,634 --> 00:24:42,795
I'm very curious what, you know, through that

686
00:24:42,795 --> 00:24:43,295
time,

687
00:24:43,595 --> 00:24:45,295
was it healthy? Was it unhealthy?

688
00:24:46,234 --> 00:24:47,434
Have you done a lot of work on

689
00:24:47,434 --> 00:24:47,914
that?

690
00:24:48,475 --> 00:24:50,315
I'm really curious what, you know, as a

691
00:24:50,315 --> 00:24:50,815
female,

692
00:24:51,434 --> 00:24:53,970
what, what, how this impacted you? And I

693
00:24:53,970 --> 00:24:55,569
kinda wanna know two parts to that. So

694
00:24:55,569 --> 00:24:58,450
I kinda wanna know back then and how

695
00:24:58,450 --> 00:25:00,049
your brain was real dealing with it. And

696
00:25:00,049 --> 00:25:01,970
then I will also wanna know now, you

697
00:25:01,970 --> 00:25:04,529
know, what what's this done to kind of

698
00:25:04,529 --> 00:25:06,289
your why and your outlook now when it

699
00:25:06,289 --> 00:25:09,105
comes to porn, sex, and the sexualized female?

700
00:25:10,065 --> 00:25:12,724
Absolutely. Great questions. And, I didn't even

701
00:25:13,105 --> 00:25:14,625
really expect to go there, but it is

702
00:25:14,625 --> 00:25:15,845
a big part of the story,

703
00:25:16,224 --> 00:25:18,404
strangely enough. Not strange, I guess.

704
00:25:20,464 --> 00:25:22,704
Yeah. Growing up, again, I didn't have all

705
00:25:22,704 --> 00:25:23,765
the details, but

706
00:25:24,589 --> 00:25:26,830
I had pieced together enough to maybe kind

707
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:28,609
of know that it was

708
00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:32,190
I don't know. I don't even think I

709
00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:32,690
articulated

710
00:25:33,070 --> 00:25:34,670
it in my mind even. But,

711
00:25:35,549 --> 00:25:36,529
I really struggled,

712
00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:38,849
ever having a healthy relationship

713
00:25:40,035 --> 00:25:40,535
with

714
00:25:40,835 --> 00:25:43,315
any men. I made out I don't even

715
00:25:43,315 --> 00:25:44,914
know how many guys I made out with.

716
00:25:44,914 --> 00:25:47,734
But luckily, it stopped there. Again, my

717
00:25:48,035 --> 00:25:49,975
my own personal beliefs, I

718
00:25:50,434 --> 00:25:50,994
believe in,

719
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:54,809
the afterlife, and I believe in, like, protection.

720
00:25:54,809 --> 00:25:56,970
I think I was massively protected. Like, I

721
00:25:56,970 --> 00:25:59,609
don't know how I was protected from things,

722
00:25:59,609 --> 00:26:01,450
but I was in situations over and over

723
00:26:01,450 --> 00:26:03,609
again that I I should have been raped.

724
00:26:03,609 --> 00:26:05,850
Mhmm. I do not know how I escaped

725
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:07,630
it, but not everyone

726
00:26:08,305 --> 00:26:09,365
that I loved it.

727
00:26:10,384 --> 00:26:12,244
And, anyway so, yes, just

728
00:26:12,945 --> 00:26:15,924
very unfortunate situations because I was trying

729
00:26:17,345 --> 00:26:19,045
to heal. I was trying

730
00:26:20,144 --> 00:26:22,484
to gain connection. I was trying to

731
00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:27,400
put that missing puzzle piece back, and I

732
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,240
didn't know how to get it because nobody

733
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,240
was guiding me. So I was left to

734
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:32,860
flounder and figure it out myself,

735
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:36,039
without even people knowing. Like, I I became

736
00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:37,275
very private because

737
00:26:37,755 --> 00:26:40,474
that's how my family handled it, at least

738
00:26:40,474 --> 00:26:42,654
in that big thing, especially. And

739
00:26:46,555 --> 00:26:47,914
I guess I just didn't know what I

740
00:26:47,914 --> 00:26:50,095
didn't know. Just felt like a lot of

741
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,140
complex

742
00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:53,740
grief, and

743
00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:56,299
I was, sexually abused

744
00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:59,099
right after my dad's death too,

745
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:01,500
which is a whole another

746
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:04,940
terrible thing because I was grieving and

747
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,375
have an easy target.

748
00:27:07,414 --> 00:27:09,575
So that also added later layers to it

749
00:27:09,575 --> 00:27:10,234
as well.

750
00:27:10,615 --> 00:27:13,255
But fast forward to college and then,

751
00:27:14,055 --> 00:27:15,674
I was married, I think, around

752
00:27:16,055 --> 00:27:19,595
mid twenties. Mhmm. And I didn't even realize.

753
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,080
It took me a long time to realize

754
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,460
how much I was dissociating.

755
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,600
And for those of you that don't know

756
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,519
what that looks like, it's often,

757
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,840
staring off into space. It's,

758
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,500
having that far off look. It's

759
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,320
not blinking much. It's,

760
00:27:35,095 --> 00:27:37,735
just kind of checking out, like, talking very

761
00:27:37,735 --> 00:27:39,735
slowly or not talking much at all. Like,

762
00:27:39,735 --> 00:27:41,174
that's what it looks like maybe to other

763
00:27:41,174 --> 00:27:43,654
people. And I realized that I,

764
00:27:46,055 --> 00:27:46,955
was totally,

765
00:27:48,179 --> 00:27:49,639
dissociating during intimacy.

766
00:27:50,419 --> 00:27:53,460
I was not able to enjoy it. Didn't

767
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:55,159
climax for, like, ten years.

768
00:27:55,779 --> 00:27:56,440
It was

769
00:27:56,819 --> 00:27:59,379
very complicated, and I didn't I thought it

770
00:27:59,379 --> 00:28:01,539
was normal. I didn't even understand that it

771
00:28:01,539 --> 00:28:01,779
was

772
00:28:02,734 --> 00:28:04,515
there was a lot of layers there.

773
00:28:04,815 --> 00:28:07,555
So I am still trying to

774
00:28:08,414 --> 00:28:10,414
pick up those pieces and unravel them a

775
00:28:10,414 --> 00:28:11,315
little bit more

776
00:28:11,695 --> 00:28:12,195
and

777
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:17,430
communicating through all those things, talking to him.

778
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:19,350
And luckily, I married a therapist. He was

779
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:20,789
not a therapist at the time, but he's

780
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:23,609
very good at talking through things, listening,

781
00:28:23,910 --> 00:28:25,690
like, really helping me. But

782
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:26,970
it just

783
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:29,529
hurts me that he has to,

784
00:28:32,525 --> 00:28:34,045
I don't wanna say deal with that, but

785
00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:35,505
somewhat deal with that when

786
00:28:36,045 --> 00:28:37,484
that was all my side of the street.

787
00:28:37,484 --> 00:28:39,164
I hoped it would all be resolved before

788
00:28:39,164 --> 00:28:41,184
I got married, but these things can take

789
00:28:42,045 --> 00:28:45,164
decades. Mhmm. I totally am. So, yeah, the

790
00:28:45,164 --> 00:28:47,470
result is a very broken

791
00:28:49,210 --> 00:28:49,710
person

792
00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:52,910
because of that broken little girl. Yeah. Mhmm.

793
00:28:55,049 --> 00:28:58,509
And therapy really helps, but sometimes it's frustrating

794
00:28:58,570 --> 00:29:00,509
how slow that process is.

795
00:29:01,835 --> 00:29:04,335
You're sad. What's so sad about it?

796
00:29:06,394 --> 00:29:08,095
About being broken for generations?

797
00:29:09,515 --> 00:29:10,015
Well,

798
00:29:10,474 --> 00:29:12,974
that doesn't fit my fairy tale, so

799
00:29:13,994 --> 00:29:15,134
of, getting

800
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,519
going into the mental health field, getting all

801
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:20,539
this this therapy done,

802
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,059
getting educated,

803
00:29:22,679 --> 00:29:24,519
doing all the hard stuff. Like, remember, I

804
00:29:24,519 --> 00:29:27,339
told you I'm really productive. I'm high performer.

805
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,319
I did all the work. I checked all

806
00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:30,585
the boxes, and,

807
00:29:31,065 --> 00:29:33,544
man, I just was still a little bit

808
00:29:33,544 --> 00:29:34,044
messy.

809
00:29:34,664 --> 00:29:36,044
Mhmm. And that was hard to swallow.

810
00:29:36,585 --> 00:29:37,085
Mhmm.

811
00:29:37,464 --> 00:29:38,524
Yeah. I'm I'm

812
00:29:39,065 --> 00:29:41,144
I resonate with that. I I I've often

813
00:29:41,144 --> 00:29:42,585
said I think I might have even said

814
00:29:42,585 --> 00:29:43,484
it on your podcast.

815
00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:45,990
I don't know if I've had sex,

816
00:29:46,289 --> 00:29:47,670
yet. I've had a lot of intercourse,

817
00:29:48,450 --> 00:29:50,130
but I don't know if I know how

818
00:29:50,130 --> 00:29:51,730
to have sex. I think I've had a

819
00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:53,890
little bit of it now in recovery of

820
00:29:53,890 --> 00:29:55,990
of, you know, that there's really connected, vulnerable,

821
00:29:56,049 --> 00:29:58,414
intimate moments where it's really not about the

822
00:29:58,414 --> 00:30:01,055
sex. It's about the the eye contact, the

823
00:30:01,055 --> 00:30:02,275
the feeling in your,

824
00:30:02,894 --> 00:30:05,474
you know, this exchange between two people. But,

825
00:30:05,934 --> 00:30:07,694
you know, if I'm if I'm completely honest,

826
00:30:08,015 --> 00:30:09,615
I mean, shoot, it took me it took

827
00:30:09,615 --> 00:30:11,650
me up and it took me up until

828
00:30:11,650 --> 00:30:12,930
just the last two years to be able

829
00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:14,930
to start having that. And I had a

830
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:17,670
lot of intercourse before that. And, you know,

831
00:30:17,730 --> 00:30:20,630
I that's what makes me the saddest was,

832
00:30:22,894 --> 00:30:25,615
how's I'm sad for myself for not being

833
00:30:25,615 --> 00:30:26,434
able to have,

834
00:30:27,375 --> 00:30:29,375
such a critical piece. I mean, sex is

835
00:30:29,375 --> 00:30:31,075
such a critical piece of of

836
00:30:31,534 --> 00:30:33,134
existence. I mean, it's just it's a it's

837
00:30:33,134 --> 00:30:35,054
a very needed experience for all of us.

838
00:30:35,054 --> 00:30:36,799
And, you know, how deprived I was of

839
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:38,240
that and the effects that that was having

840
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,920
on me, unknown to me. Because to your

841
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:40,420
point,

842
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,720
it was normal. I didn't know any different.

843
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,039
You know, my the church that we grew

844
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:46,720
up in had a very you know, it

845
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,320
was just, you know, sex was always a,

846
00:30:49,875 --> 00:30:50,615
kind of

847
00:30:51,075 --> 00:30:53,075
a thing to avoid. And so I'd I'd

848
00:30:53,075 --> 00:30:54,674
actually grown quite scared of sex. I didn't

849
00:30:54,674 --> 00:30:56,914
wanna get anybody pregnant. I didn't wanna I

850
00:30:56,914 --> 00:30:58,115
was just like, man, I'm just gonna not

851
00:30:58,115 --> 00:30:59,315
have it at all. It sounds like a

852
00:30:59,315 --> 00:31:00,934
very complicated thing.

853
00:31:01,795 --> 00:31:03,234
But I think, you know, I don't know

854
00:31:03,234 --> 00:31:05,589
what if, well, I can speculate what effects

855
00:31:05,589 --> 00:31:07,349
that had on me long term. And I

856
00:31:07,349 --> 00:31:08,950
think I'm the saddest for my wife because

857
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:09,849
I think she

858
00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:12,150
isn't as broken as I am in those

859
00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:13,109
ways. And,

860
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:15,750
you know, I think, you know, I'm I'm

861
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:16,329
I'm unintentionally

862
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:19,575
depriving her of some really connected sex that

863
00:31:19,654 --> 00:31:21,335
is still to this day hard for me

864
00:31:21,335 --> 00:31:23,095
to have because of, to your point, the

865
00:31:23,095 --> 00:31:25,514
decades of of of the of the trauma.

866
00:31:27,095 --> 00:31:28,794
So if you don't mind, can we

867
00:31:29,174 --> 00:31:30,954
can we talk a little bit about,

868
00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:35,970
kind of if you're okay with it, zooming

869
00:31:35,970 --> 00:31:37,089
out of the I just don't know if

870
00:31:37,089 --> 00:31:38,450
you have the capabilities of doing this, so

871
00:31:38,450 --> 00:31:39,589
I'm gonna ask your permission.

872
00:31:40,049 --> 00:31:42,210
Zooming out a little bit and almost kind

873
00:31:42,210 --> 00:31:44,289
of speaking about this as if it's not

874
00:31:44,289 --> 00:31:45,970
your dad and family. I know that can

875
00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:48,215
be hard to do, but just kind of

876
00:31:48,215 --> 00:31:49,595
speculating as a therapist,

877
00:31:50,134 --> 00:31:51,815
like what was going on in his inner

878
00:31:51,815 --> 00:31:53,815
world? And I mean, this could make this

879
00:31:53,815 --> 00:31:56,695
probably will make you emotional. And, if you

880
00:31:56,695 --> 00:31:58,055
need breaks, we can take breaks. I know

881
00:31:58,055 --> 00:31:59,515
when I talk about my father's

882
00:32:00,089 --> 00:32:01,470
my my father,

883
00:32:02,009 --> 00:32:03,849
I would say pornography killed my dad,

884
00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:06,509
in a different way. He didn't have,

885
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:09,769
but, he could not go on his Mormon

886
00:32:09,769 --> 00:32:12,250
mission and, he kept wanting to go. And

887
00:32:12,250 --> 00:32:14,190
and then when we all graduated college,

888
00:32:14,505 --> 00:32:15,644
he wanted to go.

889
00:32:16,184 --> 00:32:18,585
And my dad's coping mechanism was eating. He

890
00:32:18,585 --> 00:32:20,424
had seven heart attacks. It was the seventh

891
00:32:20,424 --> 00:32:21,404
that killed him.

892
00:32:21,945 --> 00:32:22,765
And he,

893
00:32:23,224 --> 00:32:23,724
just

894
00:32:24,984 --> 00:32:27,299
the constant being untemple worthy,

895
00:32:27,779 --> 00:32:30,259
the shame around everybody going, my mom having

896
00:32:30,259 --> 00:32:31,000
to go alone.

897
00:32:31,779 --> 00:32:34,100
I he he chose eating and I mean,

898
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:35,720
he was grossly overweight,

899
00:32:36,660 --> 00:32:38,440
grossly, grossly, grossly overweight.

900
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:41,140
And, my mom read my book and she

901
00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:42,259
sent me an email and

902
00:32:43,434 --> 00:32:45,115
sorry. It's hard for me to talk about.

903
00:32:45,115 --> 00:32:46,315
She sent me an email and said that,

904
00:32:46,315 --> 00:32:49,455
yeah, she she feels like, his compulsivity was

905
00:32:49,835 --> 00:32:52,654
was why his career never flourished, why he,

906
00:32:53,355 --> 00:32:55,619
constantly just told himself that he was this

907
00:32:55,619 --> 00:32:57,460
just this worthless piece of junk that the

908
00:32:57,460 --> 00:32:58,980
world would be better. He would joke about

909
00:32:58,980 --> 00:33:00,440
how no one would come to his funeral.

910
00:33:00,579 --> 00:33:02,420
No one cares about him. And it's just

911
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:04,180
I kinda wanna go down if you're okay

912
00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:05,460
with it. I would kinda wanna go down

913
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:07,700
that speculative rabbit hole of maybe what it

914
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:10,039
was like to be your dad because it's

915
00:33:11,214 --> 00:33:13,134
it's a huge burden to bear.

916
00:33:13,615 --> 00:33:15,095
And I and I I love to hear

917
00:33:15,214 --> 00:33:17,134
my favorite part of your story was when

918
00:33:17,134 --> 00:33:17,794
you discovered,

919
00:33:19,214 --> 00:33:21,134
you know, imagining what it was like to

920
00:33:21,134 --> 00:33:22,994
be him and just the the

921
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,160
hidingness from his family, just the the burden

922
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,920
that that would bear. If you're okay with

923
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,640
it, can you speculate as a therapist what

924
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,099
his inner world was like?

925
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,859
Of course. Yeah.

926
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,799
Well, I'll fill in a a couple gaps

927
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:38,259
a little bit. So I did

928
00:33:38,625 --> 00:33:40,305
I know this isn't always the case, but

929
00:33:40,305 --> 00:33:42,865
this just shows, like, his character. Like, he,

930
00:33:43,184 --> 00:33:43,924
he was,

931
00:33:45,105 --> 00:33:46,785
he was a very good man. He was

932
00:33:46,785 --> 00:33:49,025
an incredible father, and I think that made

933
00:33:49,025 --> 00:33:51,204
this the loss that much more keen.

934
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:53,839
Yeah. Can I I wanna interrupt there for

935
00:33:53,839 --> 00:33:55,500
a second? I just want everybody to understand

936
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,960
for the guys listening to and the women

937
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:58,940
listening to this,

938
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:01,500
your compulsive behavior

939
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,460
is not a measure of your character.

940
00:34:05,105 --> 00:34:07,105
I'll tell you right now, my my groups

941
00:34:07,105 --> 00:34:08,244
are full of

942
00:34:08,785 --> 00:34:10,565
every single man is a beautiful,

943
00:34:11,265 --> 00:34:13,664
giving man who wants to be as good

944
00:34:13,664 --> 00:34:14,945
as he can. So I just wanted I

945
00:34:14,945 --> 00:34:17,010
just wanted to mention that. I know this

946
00:34:17,489 --> 00:34:19,809
it often these men often get criticized for

947
00:34:19,809 --> 00:34:21,969
their character, their lack of integrity, you know,

948
00:34:21,969 --> 00:34:23,349
they're called many names.

949
00:34:23,809 --> 00:34:25,889
I just wanna say I I'm offended every

950
00:34:25,889 --> 00:34:27,429
time I hear that because,

951
00:34:28,690 --> 00:34:29,250
this is not a

952
00:34:29,974 --> 00:34:31,894
someone's actions and their character are two different

953
00:34:31,894 --> 00:34:33,255
things. So I just wanted to I just

954
00:34:33,255 --> 00:34:34,695
wanted to point Yeah. And I think there's

955
00:34:34,695 --> 00:34:35,974
probably a part of me that wants to

956
00:34:35,974 --> 00:34:37,815
defend that because they I I think there's

957
00:34:37,815 --> 00:34:39,914
that assumption that he was

958
00:34:41,015 --> 00:34:41,515
just

959
00:34:42,150 --> 00:34:43,989
disgusting or something. I don't know. And maybe

960
00:34:43,989 --> 00:34:45,909
that's just my my assumption, but that's kind

961
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:47,530
of the feeling that I got sometimes.

962
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:50,089
Anyway, so

963
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:52,489
really great father,

964
00:34:52,949 --> 00:34:54,949
a good man on so many levels, and

965
00:34:54,949 --> 00:34:57,210
he he did I don't know the timetable

966
00:34:57,269 --> 00:34:57,644
because

967
00:34:58,204 --> 00:35:00,684
I haven't sat down for a whole another

968
00:35:00,684 --> 00:35:02,364
story, but I haven't talked about all the

969
00:35:02,364 --> 00:35:04,304
details of my mom. But

970
00:35:04,844 --> 00:35:05,344
he

971
00:35:06,284 --> 00:35:08,545
did tell her about this at some point,

972
00:35:09,085 --> 00:35:10,224
and he was

973
00:35:10,684 --> 00:35:11,585
more transparent.

974
00:35:12,204 --> 00:35:13,889
And he did see, like she did see

975
00:35:13,889 --> 00:35:16,049
the bruising on his neck sometimes from doing

976
00:35:16,049 --> 00:35:17,809
this. And he would do well for a

977
00:35:17,809 --> 00:35:19,449
while and then relapse, and do well for

978
00:35:19,449 --> 00:35:21,589
a while and relapse. But this was

979
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:22,630
in

980
00:35:22,929 --> 00:35:24,849
the eighties when there was, like, no help

981
00:35:24,849 --> 00:35:25,349
really.

982
00:35:26,234 --> 00:35:28,315
And shameful to get help back then too.

983
00:35:28,315 --> 00:35:29,214
Oh, absolutely.

984
00:35:29,594 --> 00:35:30,094
And,

985
00:35:30,875 --> 00:35:32,795
for listeners probably don't know this, but this

986
00:35:32,795 --> 00:35:34,315
is also something that a lot of people

987
00:35:34,315 --> 00:35:36,255
will just say is suicide when it happens.

988
00:35:36,315 --> 00:35:37,135
Right. So

989
00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:40,409
but I also we all felt uncomfortable saying

990
00:35:40,409 --> 00:35:43,690
it was suicide. That's, like, intentional and somebody

991
00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:45,929
taking their life, and he wasn't intentionally taking

992
00:35:45,929 --> 00:35:48,510
his life. So it was just so complicated.

993
00:35:48,650 --> 00:35:49,769
But, anyway,

994
00:35:50,650 --> 00:35:52,250
what was going on for him, I think

995
00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:52,750
just

996
00:35:53,085 --> 00:35:56,464
I I'm certain a lot of shame, especially

997
00:35:56,525 --> 00:35:58,464
knowing that this is a very dangerous,

998
00:36:00,125 --> 00:36:00,625
habit,

999
00:36:01,804 --> 00:36:04,445
compulsion, and that it could potentially take his

1000
00:36:04,445 --> 00:36:04,945
life,

1001
00:36:05,484 --> 00:36:07,964
likely would. He had dreams about this. He

1002
00:36:07,964 --> 00:36:09,059
he kind of knew that

1003
00:36:09,860 --> 00:36:11,239
this would be his undoing.

1004
00:36:11,699 --> 00:36:13,059
And it just felt like, you know, that

1005
00:36:13,059 --> 00:36:15,320
Achilles heel, that thing that he just couldn't

1006
00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:16,840
couldn't

1007
00:36:18,019 --> 00:36:19,160
find a way through.

1008
00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:23,335
And I yeah. So I know that it

1009
00:36:23,335 --> 00:36:25,175
was hard. I know my mom tried to

1010
00:36:25,175 --> 00:36:26,855
help him, and it just it would help

1011
00:36:26,855 --> 00:36:28,375
for a little bit, but just never long

1012
00:36:28,375 --> 00:36:30,855
enough. There's no, like, groups or anything like

1013
00:36:30,855 --> 00:36:32,474
that that could keep him accountable.

1014
00:36:33,255 --> 00:36:34,934
Any help. So I think,

1015
00:36:35,335 --> 00:36:37,835
from the therapist's standpoint, yeah, just,

1016
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,239
well, it's so hard to separate the two

1017
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:42,739
because

1018
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:44,799
of knowing his story. But I think I

1019
00:36:44,799 --> 00:36:46,319
told you this last time too. Like, my

1020
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:49,760
when I think about people with addiction, I

1021
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:50,579
think about

1022
00:36:51,465 --> 00:36:53,305
the child self. Like, I do that so

1023
00:36:53,305 --> 00:36:55,144
much in my trauma work with people, and

1024
00:36:55,144 --> 00:36:57,465
I think especially about my little brother. They

1025
00:36:57,465 --> 00:36:59,945
were different addictions, but because I didn't get

1026
00:36:59,945 --> 00:37:01,724
to talk to my dad about his

1027
00:37:02,144 --> 00:37:02,644
his

1028
00:37:03,065 --> 00:37:04,445
story, I wish I could've.

1029
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:06,880
But I think about my little brother, and

1030
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,539
the last conversation I had with him was

1031
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:10,340
this plea

1032
00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:11,619
to

1033
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,199
get help to work through that trauma, but,

1034
00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:17,280
like, a loving plea, not this, like, nagging

1035
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:17,780
plea.

1036
00:37:19,744 --> 00:37:21,824
That there's so many that there's shadows to

1037
00:37:21,824 --> 00:37:22,565
work through.

1038
00:37:23,184 --> 00:37:23,684
And

1039
00:37:24,864 --> 00:37:25,605
I know

1040
00:37:26,545 --> 00:37:28,244
very well how

1041
00:37:29,585 --> 00:37:31,425
the heart of my brother and I imagine

1042
00:37:31,425 --> 00:37:32,945
it's very similar to the heart of my

1043
00:37:32,945 --> 00:37:35,230
dad from what everyone has told me And

1044
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:37,890
just this this deep desire to get

1045
00:37:38,989 --> 00:37:41,469
healing by feeling so stuck. Like, how can

1046
00:37:41,469 --> 00:37:43,070
you get through that? I've even felt that.

1047
00:37:43,070 --> 00:37:43,570
Like,

1048
00:37:43,869 --> 00:37:45,630
how can I let how can I set

1049
00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:46,769
down that high performance,

1050
00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:47,890
that productivity

1051
00:37:48,190 --> 00:37:49,570
sometimes that is so

1052
00:37:49,985 --> 00:37:52,405
big that it that makes it it complicates

1053
00:37:52,545 --> 00:37:55,125
things sometimes? I'm now I really try

1054
00:37:55,585 --> 00:37:57,184
to do all I can, but sometimes it

1055
00:37:57,184 --> 00:37:58,724
feels impossible. Like,

1056
00:37:59,585 --> 00:38:01,744
my brain is broken for good. There's nothing

1057
00:38:01,744 --> 00:38:03,025
I can do, and I just wanna throw

1058
00:38:03,025 --> 00:38:04,405
out my hands and give up.

1059
00:38:04,785 --> 00:38:05,219
But,

1060
00:38:08,019 --> 00:38:10,019
I just continue to do the work, honestly,

1061
00:38:10,019 --> 00:38:10,679
and I

1062
00:38:11,059 --> 00:38:13,699
and I also am doing everything that I

1063
00:38:13,699 --> 00:38:15,960
do, just like you said, to help

1064
00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:18,119
even if it's just one person.

1065
00:38:18,614 --> 00:38:20,855
And I'm surprised that I didn't go into

1066
00:38:20,855 --> 00:38:23,894
addiction myself, like, helping people through addiction. And

1067
00:38:23,894 --> 00:38:26,795
I'm not exactly sure why. But I chose

1068
00:38:26,855 --> 00:38:30,375
instead to focus on, deepening fulfillment Mhmm. And,

1069
00:38:30,775 --> 00:38:31,275
creating,

1070
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:35,099
like, almost a positive psychotherapy lens of, like,

1071
00:38:35,099 --> 00:38:37,260
okay. We all have these these things, these

1072
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:38,880
maladaptive things that we

1073
00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:40,480
go to or escapism.

1074
00:38:40,780 --> 00:38:42,860
Right? Every one of us has that. Are

1075
00:38:42,860 --> 00:38:44,000
you are you mistaken?

1076
00:38:44,424 --> 00:38:44,924
Anyway,

1077
00:38:45,385 --> 00:38:48,025
so working through those things and finding, like,

1078
00:38:48,025 --> 00:38:50,424
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, working towards that greater

1079
00:38:50,424 --> 00:38:50,924
fulfillment,

1080
00:38:52,264 --> 00:38:54,924
that comes as we do that. There's

1081
00:38:55,304 --> 00:38:57,704
lower things on the period pyramid, like, working

1082
00:38:57,704 --> 00:38:59,085
through that trauma and

1083
00:38:59,464 --> 00:39:01,230
all that. I just I think I went

1084
00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:02,989
on a giant tangent. Did I answer No.

1085
00:39:02,989 --> 00:39:04,670
I think you answered you answered both. I

1086
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:06,210
think, you know, in the end,

1087
00:39:09,630 --> 00:39:10,130
you

1088
00:39:10,750 --> 00:39:12,289
you hit you hit on two great things.

1089
00:39:12,429 --> 00:39:14,954
You know, his inner world, I think, and

1090
00:39:14,954 --> 00:39:16,675
and it's it's it's the whole reason I

1091
00:39:16,675 --> 00:39:18,114
wanted to record this. It's the whole reason

1092
00:39:18,114 --> 00:39:19,954
I think that you wanted to record this

1093
00:39:19,954 --> 00:39:20,695
too was

1094
00:39:21,875 --> 00:39:23,875
how many people aren't getting help because they

1095
00:39:23,875 --> 00:39:24,855
feel like they can't.

1096
00:39:25,795 --> 00:39:27,394
I mean, I I knew that this I

1097
00:39:27,394 --> 00:39:29,390
Googled this, you know, unlike your dad,

1098
00:39:29,789 --> 00:39:31,710
when I was doing this, I we had

1099
00:39:31,710 --> 00:39:34,369
the Internet. And so I remember I Googled

1100
00:39:35,230 --> 00:39:37,869
how to stop my behavior before I told

1101
00:39:37,869 --> 00:39:39,390
anyone. This is before I even had gotten

1102
00:39:39,390 --> 00:39:41,550
arrested for it. I was 13 years old,

1103
00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:43,170
and I knew it was not normal.

1104
00:39:43,704 --> 00:39:45,545
I, was ashamed of it.

1105
00:39:46,505 --> 00:39:48,344
I hated it. It's like this thing living

1106
00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:49,964
in your body that you hate.

1107
00:39:50,425 --> 00:39:52,344
And I think the big reason I wanted

1108
00:39:52,344 --> 00:39:53,944
you to come on and I'm glad that

1109
00:39:53,944 --> 00:39:54,844
you did was

1110
00:39:55,889 --> 00:39:58,049
we need to talk about this. It's so

1111
00:39:58,049 --> 00:40:00,769
unfair that you can tell people about your

1112
00:40:00,769 --> 00:40:03,650
alcohol addiction and your family will come to

1113
00:40:03,650 --> 00:40:05,650
you. What do you need? How can we

1114
00:40:05,650 --> 00:40:06,130
help?

1115
00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:08,369
What do we need to do together as

1116
00:40:08,369 --> 00:40:11,304
a family? You can have a heroin addiction,

1117
00:40:11,684 --> 00:40:13,844
a cocaine addiction. You can have a gambling

1118
00:40:13,844 --> 00:40:15,464
addiction. You can have an eating disorder.

1119
00:40:16,565 --> 00:40:18,484
You can have a workaholism. You can have

1120
00:40:18,484 --> 00:40:20,565
an addiction to social media, video games. I

1121
00:40:20,565 --> 00:40:22,264
mean, every other addict

1122
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:26,650
can get help, and they will probably statistically,

1123
00:40:26,869 --> 00:40:28,710
they will probably not always, depends on the

1124
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:29,210
family,

1125
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:31,589
depends on your friends, but a lot of

1126
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:33,750
friends and family, the ones who love you

1127
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:35,289
will rally around you.

1128
00:40:36,244 --> 00:40:37,945
That doesn't happen with this. And,

1129
00:40:40,244 --> 00:40:41,525
you know, and I and I also I

1130
00:40:41,525 --> 00:40:43,204
also, you know, a lot of a lot

1131
00:40:43,204 --> 00:40:44,184
of people say

1132
00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:46,324
not to worry about that, but I kinda

1133
00:40:46,324 --> 00:40:48,164
empathize with the guys because I I I

1134
00:40:48,324 --> 00:40:50,609
I'm always like, don't gaslight me. I know

1135
00:40:50,609 --> 00:40:52,289
what they're gonna say when they find out

1136
00:40:52,289 --> 00:40:54,609
about this. They're gonna look at me with

1137
00:40:54,609 --> 00:40:55,269
that look.

1138
00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:57,170
I know they are. And,

1139
00:40:57,569 --> 00:40:59,489
so I think you you brought up the

1140
00:40:59,489 --> 00:41:01,009
point that I really wanted to hammer home

1141
00:41:01,009 --> 00:41:01,509
is,

1142
00:41:02,529 --> 00:41:04,914
you can't get help for this, and that's

1143
00:41:04,914 --> 00:41:07,341
why it progresses and progresses and progresses. It'd

1144
00:41:07,341 --> 00:41:08,755
be how nice would it be if you

1145
00:41:08,755 --> 00:41:11,335
knew that your pornography issue was kind of,

1146
00:41:11,714 --> 00:41:13,875
you know, compulsive? How great would it be

1147
00:41:13,875 --> 00:41:16,054
that right there before things got worse,

1148
00:41:16,674 --> 00:41:17,974
you could be like, hey, honey,

1149
00:41:19,170 --> 00:41:20,609
I got something I gotta tell you. You

1150
00:41:20,609 --> 00:41:21,250
know, I just

1151
00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:23,569
it's really awkward to bring it up, but,

1152
00:41:23,569 --> 00:41:25,170
you know, I've I've been watching pornography, and

1153
00:41:25,170 --> 00:41:26,690
I've I've been watching more of it. And

1154
00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:28,530
I I really I really need to get

1155
00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:30,369
help, and I want your accountability. How great

1156
00:41:30,369 --> 00:41:31,489
would it be if you could come to

1157
00:41:31,489 --> 00:41:32,150
your spouse

1158
00:41:32,875 --> 00:41:34,555
like that? And it's just we don't we

1159
00:41:34,555 --> 00:41:36,155
don't live in a world where that is

1160
00:41:36,155 --> 00:41:37,775
the case. And I think this thing progresses

1161
00:41:37,835 --> 00:41:39,515
to the point where it gets to very

1162
00:41:39,515 --> 00:41:41,994
dangerous levels because of that. So I think

1163
00:41:41,994 --> 00:41:43,755
you totally spoke to the point that I'm

1164
00:41:43,755 --> 00:41:45,275
the most passionate about, which is the whole

1165
00:41:45,275 --> 00:41:47,769
reason I had this podcast was this is

1166
00:41:47,769 --> 00:41:49,369
something we need to talk about. Because,

1167
00:41:49,690 --> 00:41:50,750
if we're not careful,

1168
00:41:51,210 --> 00:41:52,170
I think all of us start

1169
00:41:53,050 --> 00:41:53,869
I mean, I

1170
00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:56,010
did I did things that I I did

1171
00:41:56,090 --> 00:41:58,010
I remember when I asked my dad about

1172
00:41:58,010 --> 00:41:58,510
prostitution,

1173
00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:00,490
and he told me what it was. I

1174
00:42:00,490 --> 00:42:02,125
was, I don't know, 12 years old. I

1175
00:42:02,125 --> 00:42:05,164
was like, that's gross. Guys pay a woman

1176
00:42:05,164 --> 00:42:06,364
who had, you know, I was like, that's

1177
00:42:06,364 --> 00:42:08,525
disgusting. I can't believe that. And then I

1178
00:42:08,525 --> 00:42:10,765
became that guy. And so I think that's

1179
00:42:10,765 --> 00:42:13,244
the thing is, it's easy to say, oh,

1180
00:42:13,244 --> 00:42:14,684
I'll never do that or I'll never get

1181
00:42:14,684 --> 00:42:17,210
to that level. Every person who got arrested

1182
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:19,550
for child pornography and did time in jail,

1183
00:42:20,250 --> 00:42:22,570
always once a person who said, ew, child

1184
00:42:22,570 --> 00:42:24,570
pornography, what kind of pervert does that? And

1185
00:42:24,570 --> 00:42:26,010
then they became that. So I think I

1186
00:42:26,010 --> 00:42:27,369
think I just I wanted to take a

1187
00:42:27,369 --> 00:42:29,289
moment to to highlight that. I don't think

1188
00:42:29,289 --> 00:42:30,429
your dad ever

1189
00:42:30,965 --> 00:42:31,465
imagined

1190
00:42:31,844 --> 00:42:33,445
his life going the direction that it did

1191
00:42:33,445 --> 00:42:35,045
and certainly ending the way that it did.

1192
00:42:35,045 --> 00:42:35,864
And I think

1193
00:42:36,324 --> 00:42:38,085
I I, you know, again, I can't promise

1194
00:42:38,085 --> 00:42:39,844
anything, but I do think that if this

1195
00:42:39,844 --> 00:42:41,945
was more of a discussion in the community,

1196
00:42:42,405 --> 00:42:44,425
when it started getting to a really dangerous

1197
00:42:44,485 --> 00:42:44,885
place,

1198
00:42:46,340 --> 00:42:48,579
you know, would it increase the likelihood that

1199
00:42:48,579 --> 00:42:50,659
he would be brave enough to ask someone

1200
00:42:50,659 --> 00:42:52,099
for help? You know, I I I would

1201
00:42:52,099 --> 00:42:53,940
like to think so. Again, not everybody. You

1202
00:42:53,940 --> 00:42:55,539
know, we can't we can't make people own

1203
00:42:55,539 --> 00:42:56,519
their their,

1204
00:42:57,619 --> 00:43:00,039
compulsivities or their problems, but I would say

1205
00:43:00,215 --> 00:43:01,574
there's a lot of people who seek out

1206
00:43:01,574 --> 00:43:03,275
help in every other way but this.

1207
00:43:03,735 --> 00:43:05,094
And so I think you spoke to that.

1208
00:43:05,094 --> 00:43:06,375
And I and and I liked how you

1209
00:43:06,375 --> 00:43:08,614
spoke to yours because, again, you know, addiction

1210
00:43:08,614 --> 00:43:11,014
is one option. You can escape your life

1211
00:43:11,014 --> 00:43:12,375
or you can lean into life. There's two

1212
00:43:12,454 --> 00:43:14,295
you always have you always have two choices.

1213
00:43:14,295 --> 00:43:16,059
But, again, I think the shame I I

1214
00:43:16,059 --> 00:43:17,179
think the shame,

1215
00:43:18,299 --> 00:43:20,219
I think the shame kind of forces all

1216
00:43:20,219 --> 00:43:22,639
these guys to go into the dissociation,

1217
00:43:23,179 --> 00:43:24,159
lying, rationalization,

1218
00:43:24,460 --> 00:43:24,960
hiding,

1219
00:43:25,339 --> 00:43:26,239
place. And,

1220
00:43:27,260 --> 00:43:28,940
unfortunately, it gets worse in that place, not

1221
00:43:28,940 --> 00:43:29,440
better.

1222
00:43:30,815 --> 00:43:33,135
So my favorite question and the one that

1223
00:43:33,135 --> 00:43:33,715
I really,

1224
00:43:34,494 --> 00:43:36,595
I can't wait for you to answer is

1225
00:43:38,255 --> 00:43:39,855
I really want you to just deep dive

1226
00:43:39,855 --> 00:43:42,575
into your your core, your mission. I mean,

1227
00:43:42,575 --> 00:43:44,335
you you have such a you have such

1228
00:43:44,335 --> 00:43:46,589
a fire in you when it comes to

1229
00:43:46,589 --> 00:43:47,329
this issue.

1230
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:50,349
Describe what you would love to see within

1231
00:43:50,349 --> 00:43:52,349
the family unit, within, you know, this is

1232
00:43:52,349 --> 00:43:53,469
gonna be a big it's gonna be a

1233
00:43:53,469 --> 00:43:55,710
long answer. I want you to describe the

1234
00:43:55,710 --> 00:43:57,824
family unit, women, and men.

1235
00:43:58,784 --> 00:44:00,385
All your why for all three.

1236
00:44:00,784 --> 00:44:02,144
Because I think you have kind of a

1237
00:44:02,144 --> 00:44:03,905
different set of why of what you would

1238
00:44:03,905 --> 00:44:04,724
want for,

1239
00:44:05,585 --> 00:44:06,085
families,

1240
00:44:06,385 --> 00:44:09,025
women, and, the men dealing with this. So,

1241
00:44:09,344 --> 00:44:10,644
take the take it away.

1242
00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:14,449
Okay. No pressure. Right? I mean, I can't

1243
00:44:14,449 --> 00:44:16,369
do this, but I can do this. I

1244
00:44:16,369 --> 00:44:17,650
know you can. You got a strong why.

1245
00:44:17,650 --> 00:44:18,610
You could you can do this. You don't

1246
00:44:18,610 --> 00:44:19,989
even have you don't have to prep.

1247
00:44:20,369 --> 00:44:20,869
Yeah.

1248
00:44:22,610 --> 00:44:24,230
Great questions too.

1249
00:44:25,655 --> 00:44:27,894
So my why for family. Oh, gosh. They're

1250
00:44:27,894 --> 00:44:30,775
all pretty intermingled, but I'll I'll hit family

1251
00:44:30,775 --> 00:44:31,275
first.

1252
00:44:32,934 --> 00:44:34,875
Again, going back to that child,

1253
00:44:35,815 --> 00:44:37,594
I think it's easiest to

1254
00:44:37,894 --> 00:44:38,394
picture

1255
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:41,119
my little brother. It's easier

1256
00:44:41,659 --> 00:44:43,119
easiest to picture me,

1257
00:44:44,219 --> 00:44:45,760
those children that felt

1258
00:44:46,699 --> 00:44:48,159
so alone, so

1259
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:50,400
broken,

1260
00:44:51,755 --> 00:44:52,255
confused,

1261
00:44:53,275 --> 00:44:54,735
and my why is

1262
00:44:56,235 --> 00:45:00,175
helping those people or potential people, those potential

1263
00:45:00,315 --> 00:45:00,815
children

1264
00:45:01,355 --> 00:45:03,515
from being in that position in the first

1265
00:45:03,515 --> 00:45:05,860
place, to people that, like you said, that

1266
00:45:05,860 --> 00:45:09,079
are leaning in, family members, namely parents,

1267
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:12,360
or if you don't have children, those adults

1268
00:45:12,820 --> 00:45:15,460
that can lean in to their fears, their

1269
00:45:15,460 --> 00:45:15,960
pain,

1270
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:18,224
and start taking ownership

1271
00:45:18,844 --> 00:45:20,925
because this really comes down to ownership. Are

1272
00:45:20,925 --> 00:45:23,264
we gonna stay victims? And are we gonna

1273
00:45:23,324 --> 00:45:24,065
keep pointing

1274
00:45:24,445 --> 00:45:26,545
the fingers like me, maybe at my dad,

1275
00:45:27,005 --> 00:45:28,864
at my mom for not being transparent,

1276
00:45:29,164 --> 00:45:31,505
at my siblings for not understanding

1277
00:45:31,964 --> 00:45:32,704
my story,

1278
00:45:33,110 --> 00:45:35,110
whoever it might be. Am I gonna keep

1279
00:45:35,110 --> 00:45:37,690
pointing those fingers? My husband for not understanding

1280
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:38,250
enough

1281
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:40,630
or am I going to decide like I

1282
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:43,269
can only change myself and what does that

1283
00:45:43,269 --> 00:45:43,769
mean?

1284
00:45:44,070 --> 00:45:45,929
And maybe it's not coming fast enough

1285
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:48,250
whether you're a listener that's

1286
00:45:48,894 --> 00:45:51,075
considering therapy or maybe you're just too mortified

1287
00:45:51,135 --> 00:45:52,894
to do that. Well the beautiful thing is

1288
00:45:52,894 --> 00:45:54,095
now you can do it all in your

1289
00:45:54,095 --> 00:45:55,535
home. You don't even have to leave. Nobody

1290
00:45:55,535 --> 00:45:56,974
has to know. You can do it from

1291
00:45:56,974 --> 00:45:57,474
somebody

1292
00:45:57,855 --> 00:46:00,175
completely out of your county or whatever you

1293
00:46:00,175 --> 00:46:01,315
want. There's

1294
00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:03,739
if it's important to you, you'll find a

1295
00:46:03,739 --> 00:46:05,440
way. If not, you'll find an excuse.

1296
00:46:06,139 --> 00:46:07,440
And that is

1297
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:10,699
so tied to my wife or both family

1298
00:46:10,699 --> 00:46:12,219
women and men and I'll speak a little

1299
00:46:12,219 --> 00:46:13,739
bit more to each one but I want

1300
00:46:13,739 --> 00:46:15,920
to help those families. I wanna help those

1301
00:46:16,405 --> 00:46:18,805
those kids, but if their parents don't get

1302
00:46:18,805 --> 00:46:21,305
help Mhmm. That they will be the casualty.

1303
00:46:21,445 --> 00:46:22,345
And I know,

1304
00:46:23,925 --> 00:46:26,085
Roland, you haven't spoke to this too much.

1305
00:46:26,085 --> 00:46:27,525
I'm sure you're gonna share this or have

1306
00:46:27,525 --> 00:46:29,429
probably a lot, like how you see this

1307
00:46:29,429 --> 00:46:31,590
even affecting your kids even after you get

1308
00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:33,429
help. But I know that what I have

1309
00:46:33,429 --> 00:46:35,849
done or haven't done has already affected

1310
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:37,609
my kids. It is still

1311
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:40,710
it's not it's still not fully healed. So

1312
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:42,710
I know it's not gonna completely go away,

1313
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:43,210
but

1314
00:46:47,425 --> 00:46:49,425
there's there's more work to be done. Like

1315
00:46:49,425 --> 00:46:50,565
if we want to

1316
00:46:50,945 --> 00:46:53,184
help our kids thrive, if we want to

1317
00:46:53,184 --> 00:46:55,445
have greater fulfillment, if we wanna deepen

1318
00:46:55,744 --> 00:46:58,565
that level of connection and joy and happiness,

1319
00:46:59,539 --> 00:47:02,179
it comes from leaning in. It comes from

1320
00:47:02,179 --> 00:47:05,239
progress. Mhmm. And progress is not stagnant.

1321
00:47:05,539 --> 00:47:07,239
Mhmm. Not being complacent.

1322
00:47:07,859 --> 00:47:08,599
Like, there's

1323
00:47:11,075 --> 00:47:12,994
there's so much power and energy. That's why,

1324
00:47:12,994 --> 00:47:14,515
like, I love the work that I do

1325
00:47:14,515 --> 00:47:16,215
because it's about, like, motivating

1326
00:47:17,155 --> 00:47:19,474
and recommitting people to doing this hard work

1327
00:47:19,474 --> 00:47:20,535
even though, man,

1328
00:47:20,914 --> 00:47:23,474
Roland, it is not fun and on so

1329
00:47:23,474 --> 00:47:25,235
many levels to come on and share some

1330
00:47:25,235 --> 00:47:27,789
of these really hard things. My own shadows,

1331
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:29,230
my own,

1332
00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:31,550
failures in all of this.

1333
00:47:33,369 --> 00:47:34,269
But it's also

1334
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:36,889
so much better than maybe working in a

1335
00:47:36,889 --> 00:47:39,369
cubicle doing something when I Yeah. What I

1336
00:47:39,369 --> 00:47:40,909
what I heard there was,

1337
00:47:42,535 --> 00:47:45,494
you know, really trying to not judge things

1338
00:47:45,494 --> 00:47:47,894
or place things on hierarchies. You know, I

1339
00:47:47,894 --> 00:47:49,675
think the danger of

1340
00:47:50,054 --> 00:47:51,655
and it's so easy to do as a

1341
00:47:51,655 --> 00:47:53,815
parent. Oh my gosh. My daughter's six, and

1342
00:47:53,815 --> 00:47:55,820
I just I I I catch myself every

1343
00:47:55,820 --> 00:47:57,660
night with some stupid thing that I said

1344
00:47:57,660 --> 00:47:59,579
that I'm like, oh my gosh, I just

1345
00:47:59,579 --> 00:48:01,260
created a hierarchy for her. What I mean

1346
00:48:01,260 --> 00:48:04,380
by hierarchies for the audience listening is goods,

1347
00:48:04,380 --> 00:48:07,019
bads, better, worse. You know, I think as

1348
00:48:07,019 --> 00:48:07,519
society,

1349
00:48:08,539 --> 00:48:09,840
we ranked problems,

1350
00:48:10,295 --> 00:48:12,215
And I think that's a very dangerous thing

1351
00:48:12,215 --> 00:48:13,815
that we should not do around our kids

1352
00:48:13,815 --> 00:48:14,315
because

1353
00:48:14,934 --> 00:48:15,914
we are essentially

1354
00:48:16,375 --> 00:48:17,974
I know you're trying to tell a kid,

1355
00:48:17,974 --> 00:48:19,575
oh, wow, this is really, really bad. Avoid

1356
00:48:19,575 --> 00:48:20,075
this.

1357
00:48:20,535 --> 00:48:23,094
The problem with introducing a hierarchy to your

1358
00:48:23,094 --> 00:48:25,550
children is if they start struggling with some

1359
00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:26,849
of those high echelon

1360
00:48:27,150 --> 00:48:27,650
problems,

1361
00:48:28,829 --> 00:48:31,150
you just decrease the likelihood of them feeling

1362
00:48:31,150 --> 00:48:32,909
safe to bring it up. Because, you know,

1363
00:48:32,909 --> 00:48:34,429
as they, as they grew up, you know,

1364
00:48:34,429 --> 00:48:36,510
they constantly heard from their parents, oh, bad,

1365
00:48:36,510 --> 00:48:38,465
the bad people do these things. Well, what

1366
00:48:38,465 --> 00:48:40,305
if they start inching towards some of that?

1367
00:48:40,305 --> 00:48:41,744
How how I want us to how honest

1368
00:48:41,744 --> 00:48:42,945
are they gonna be with you? How safe

1369
00:48:42,945 --> 00:48:45,184
are they gonna feel? Are they gonna gonna

1370
00:48:45,184 --> 00:48:46,625
hide it? So, you know, that was kind

1371
00:48:46,625 --> 00:48:48,144
of what I heard with, you know, when

1372
00:48:48,144 --> 00:48:49,684
you were sharing that is,

1373
00:48:50,940 --> 00:48:52,300
I, you know, I try to tell my

1374
00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:54,400
daughter, I don't care. You know, to me,

1375
00:48:54,699 --> 00:48:56,059
a lot of the guys who are making

1376
00:48:56,059 --> 00:48:58,300
tons and tons and tons of money, 99

1377
00:48:58,300 --> 00:48:59,900
out of a 100 of them are making

1378
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:02,539
it as a compensation compensation strategy. So to

1379
00:49:02,539 --> 00:49:04,465
me, I don't care what you're doing. I

1380
00:49:04,465 --> 00:49:05,824
don't care if it's sexual. I don't care

1381
00:49:05,824 --> 00:49:06,885
if it's narcotics.

1382
00:49:07,264 --> 00:49:07,925
To me,

1383
00:49:08,784 --> 00:49:10,484
if you're violating self,

1384
00:49:11,025 --> 00:49:12,965
in any realm of that,

1385
00:49:13,425 --> 00:49:14,784
I don't want that to be on any

1386
00:49:14,784 --> 00:49:16,784
hierarchy, because I think the hierarchy has just

1387
00:49:16,784 --> 00:49:18,405
introduced shame, they introduced

1388
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:21,760
procrastination, they introduced putting things off, sweeping it

1389
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,199
under the rug. You know, I think if

1390
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:25,599
we just look at all any maladaptive behavior

1391
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:27,940
on any of at any scale, small,

1392
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,215
smaller, bigger, more disruptive, less disruptive, I think

1393
00:49:31,215 --> 00:49:33,535
if all problems are equal, I think it's

1394
00:49:33,535 --> 00:49:35,135
just gonna be a lot safer place for

1395
00:49:35,135 --> 00:49:36,575
our kids to reach out for help when

1396
00:49:36,575 --> 00:49:38,515
they don't feel like they, know something.

1397
00:49:39,135 --> 00:49:40,735
Onto the next one. What about women? What

1398
00:49:40,735 --> 00:49:42,655
would you say to women through this? Because

1399
00:49:42,655 --> 00:49:45,454
women are definitely affected by this in our

1400
00:49:45,454 --> 00:49:47,360
world in a little bit of a different

1401
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:47,599
way.

1402
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,880
They struggle with this compulsivity and addiction as

1403
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,219
well. So this is not a men problem.

1404
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,840
There's tons of women struggling with sex, love,

1405
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:56,579
and porn addiction.

1406
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,440
But yeah, what's your message to women with

1407
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,514
all this? Cause I would definitely say we

1408
00:50:01,514 --> 00:50:02,655
live in a world where,

1409
00:50:03,034 --> 00:50:05,514
unfortunately, they have been turned into objects of

1410
00:50:05,514 --> 00:50:06,014
pleasure.

1411
00:50:08,074 --> 00:50:09,355
There's so much I could say to that

1412
00:50:09,355 --> 00:50:10,815
too. I'll try to keep it brief.

1413
00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:13,530
Most of the women that I work with,

1414
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:15,390
and like you said, this is not exclusively

1415
00:50:15,450 --> 00:50:17,230
that, but a lot of them, it's more

1416
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:20,650
betrayal trauma that they are navigating and working

1417
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:21,150
through.

1418
00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:24,269
It's easy to be critical, say, of

1419
00:50:25,065 --> 00:50:26,844
my mom, my dad. And

1420
00:50:27,704 --> 00:50:28,844
ultimately, like,

1421
00:50:29,385 --> 00:50:31,244
I tell women that I work with and

1422
00:50:31,464 --> 00:50:33,385
and I tell myself all the time that,

1423
00:50:33,385 --> 00:50:33,885
like,

1424
00:50:35,224 --> 00:50:36,844
everyone has their own story

1425
00:50:37,769 --> 00:50:39,769
and to focus on what you can do

1426
00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:42,010
to heal from yours and what we can

1427
00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:42,510
do

1428
00:50:42,890 --> 00:50:45,210
to prevent that from passing that on generationally.

1429
00:50:45,210 --> 00:50:46,969
I know we've talked a lot about that

1430
00:50:46,969 --> 00:50:48,730
but that is so entwined to all of

1431
00:50:48,730 --> 00:50:51,070
that. So to women, my why is

1432
00:50:51,449 --> 00:50:52,974
I don't know why is even the right

1433
00:50:52,974 --> 00:50:53,954
word. I would say

1434
00:50:54,414 --> 00:50:55,795
my hope Mhmm.

1435
00:50:56,094 --> 00:50:58,675
Is that they will that that same thing,

1436
00:50:58,815 --> 00:51:00,974
men and women, that they will lean in

1437
00:51:00,974 --> 00:51:01,795
and they will

1438
00:51:02,255 --> 00:51:04,675
recognize that you can only go so long

1439
00:51:04,869 --> 00:51:07,510
being mad and angry at your spouse, your

1440
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:08,010
dad,

1441
00:51:08,469 --> 00:51:10,250
whoever that perpetrator is.

1442
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:13,109
And instead take a hard look at yourself,

1443
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:13,609
like,

1444
00:51:13,989 --> 00:51:15,750
what am I escaping from and how do

1445
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:17,190
I do it? And how does it affect

1446
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:19,184
my loved ones? You know, we talk a

1447
00:51:19,184 --> 00:51:20,805
lot about compulsions, but

1448
00:51:21,345 --> 00:51:23,105
I think I was really blind to mine

1449
00:51:23,105 --> 00:51:24,164
for a long time

1450
00:51:24,465 --> 00:51:26,164
and that kept me stuck.

1451
00:51:27,505 --> 00:51:29,265
Now I have a lot more compassion for

1452
00:51:29,265 --> 00:51:30,485
anybody in this

1453
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:31,579
situation

1454
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:32,380
because

1455
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,079
I'm one of those people too. Yeah. I

1456
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:37,099
I love I love that piece. And it's

1457
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,880
it's always sensitive around betrayed partners because the

1458
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,640
the the trauma is so

1459
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:43,664
I mean, it's it's, gosh, it's gotta be

1460
00:51:43,664 --> 00:51:45,344
one of the ugliest traumas I've seen. I

1461
00:51:45,344 --> 00:51:46,565
mean, just it can really

1462
00:51:47,025 --> 00:51:49,204
change someone's life for potentially

1463
00:51:49,905 --> 00:51:50,305
forever.

1464
00:51:50,704 --> 00:51:53,105
And so it's always tough bringing, you know,

1465
00:51:53,105 --> 00:51:54,405
talking about this because

1466
00:51:54,785 --> 00:51:56,704
I I never wanna come off on em

1467
00:51:56,785 --> 00:51:59,090
I'm empathetic, but, you know, to your point,

1468
00:52:00,190 --> 00:52:01,789
you know, that that's the tough thing about

1469
00:52:01,789 --> 00:52:03,390
the past, you know, it's and that's the

1470
00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:06,670
challenge with trauma is trauma is not something

1471
00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:08,769
that happened. Trauma is

1472
00:52:09,070 --> 00:52:11,784
yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And so it is,

1473
00:52:11,784 --> 00:52:13,704
it's this really, you know, I feel for

1474
00:52:13,704 --> 00:52:15,864
these women because, you know, yes, we don't

1475
00:52:15,864 --> 00:52:17,244
want this to define us.

1476
00:52:17,784 --> 00:52:19,304
But at the same time, you know, you

1477
00:52:19,304 --> 00:52:21,065
can't really help the trauma that's living in

1478
00:52:21,065 --> 00:52:23,065
your body. I mean, it probably will show

1479
00:52:23,065 --> 00:52:24,824
up tomorrow, and it probably will show up

1480
00:52:24,824 --> 00:52:26,265
the next day. But I liked your advice

1481
00:52:26,265 --> 00:52:26,849
there of,

1482
00:52:27,809 --> 00:52:29,670
of owning it rather than

1483
00:52:30,530 --> 00:52:32,930
having it, you know, leaning in because,

1484
00:52:33,809 --> 00:52:34,710
it has happened

1485
00:52:35,090 --> 00:52:36,150
and there's no undoing,

1486
00:52:36,530 --> 00:52:38,369
you know, if your husband could undo it,

1487
00:52:38,369 --> 00:52:39,970
I'm sure he would, especially the impact that

1488
00:52:39,970 --> 00:52:41,414
it caused on you. I know I would.

1489
00:52:41,494 --> 00:52:42,775
If there was one thing that I could

1490
00:52:42,775 --> 00:52:45,094
take back, one thing, I could only change

1491
00:52:45,094 --> 00:52:46,894
one thing, that is the that I I

1492
00:52:46,894 --> 00:52:48,375
I can tell you unequivocally and I think

1493
00:52:48,375 --> 00:52:49,494
all the guys in my group would do

1494
00:52:49,494 --> 00:52:50,934
it. If we had one little card that

1495
00:52:50,934 --> 00:52:53,574
would erase one aspect of this, all of

1496
00:52:53,574 --> 00:52:55,574
us guys would use that to oh, man.

1497
00:52:55,574 --> 00:52:56,554
Making me emotional.

1498
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:00,539
All of us would would use that to,

1499
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,320
undo what this did to our wife. It

1500
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,340
was not my intent. I just I

1501
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:06,860
I

1502
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,719
I I know it sounds insane, but I

1503
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,139
I never wanted her to feel this way.

1504
00:53:12,364 --> 00:53:13,744
I never wanted this.

1505
00:53:14,045 --> 00:53:15,405
And I know it sounds stupid because to

1506
00:53:15,405 --> 00:53:16,764
her, it's like, well, how'd you think I

1507
00:53:16,764 --> 00:53:18,764
was gonna feel? Well, I know, but in

1508
00:53:18,764 --> 00:53:19,424
the moment,

1509
00:53:19,964 --> 00:53:21,164
I wasn't thinking about that. I mean, I've

1510
00:53:21,164 --> 00:53:22,684
been struggling with this since I was 10

1511
00:53:22,684 --> 00:53:23,804
years old. And so,

1512
00:53:24,125 --> 00:53:26,650
you know, to me, I was treading water.

1513
00:53:26,650 --> 00:53:28,409
I was drowning on my own. I didn't

1514
00:53:28,409 --> 00:53:29,929
have time to think about anybody else. I

1515
00:53:29,929 --> 00:53:31,849
just, you know, I was obsessed with me.

1516
00:53:31,849 --> 00:53:33,289
Who's gonna care about me? What are people

1517
00:53:33,289 --> 00:53:34,890
gonna think about me? And I think that's

1518
00:53:34,890 --> 00:53:36,409
kind of what you're talking about is if

1519
00:53:36,409 --> 00:53:39,369
we can find some human empathy here for

1520
00:53:39,369 --> 00:53:41,424
just the humanity and all of it, You

1521
00:53:41,424 --> 00:53:43,184
know, all of it. You know, it's it's

1522
00:53:43,184 --> 00:53:44,784
it's sad for so many people. And I

1523
00:53:44,784 --> 00:53:46,304
think that's why my wife is doing so

1524
00:53:46,304 --> 00:53:47,824
well with this, is she's done the same

1525
00:53:47,824 --> 00:53:49,984
thing that you chose to do. She's sad

1526
00:53:49,984 --> 00:53:52,484
for everyone. She's sad for little Roland.

1527
00:53:53,184 --> 00:53:55,105
She's sad for current Roland. She's sad for

1528
00:53:55,105 --> 00:53:56,969
future Roland. She's sad for little her,

1529
00:53:57,369 --> 00:53:59,289
current her, future her. She said for the

1530
00:53:59,289 --> 00:54:02,010
women that I abused through this and used

1531
00:54:02,010 --> 00:54:02,989
for self gain.

1532
00:54:03,369 --> 00:54:04,730
She said for all the other women that

1533
00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:06,250
are getting used and abused by the other

1534
00:54:06,250 --> 00:54:08,010
men caught up in this. And I think

1535
00:54:08,010 --> 00:54:10,994
her sadness for everyone and every thing is

1536
00:54:10,994 --> 00:54:13,875
why she's in such great recovery now is,

1537
00:54:13,875 --> 00:54:15,234
what am I gonna do? Am I gonna

1538
00:54:15,234 --> 00:54:17,234
just cry all day long or am I

1539
00:54:17,234 --> 00:54:18,295
going to

1540
00:54:18,994 --> 00:54:20,835
do my part to make sure that this

1541
00:54:20,835 --> 00:54:22,275
comes to an end? And she that's what

1542
00:54:22,275 --> 00:54:23,714
she she's almost done. She's going to her

1543
00:54:23,714 --> 00:54:24,214
residency,

1544
00:54:24,835 --> 00:54:25,335
actually

1545
00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:27,900
tomorrow, day after tomorrow. So she'll be a

1546
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:29,980
licensed marriage and family therapist, but I just

1547
00:54:29,980 --> 00:54:32,059
love that. And then lastly, what would you

1548
00:54:32,059 --> 00:54:33,579
say to the men?

1549
00:54:34,940 --> 00:54:36,460
You know, I think a lot of men

1550
00:54:36,460 --> 00:54:38,565
downplay similar to probably your father

1551
00:54:39,045 --> 00:54:42,184
downplayed and tried to ignore the burden.

1552
00:54:42,804 --> 00:54:44,804
I know I did. I tried it's insane

1553
00:54:44,804 --> 00:54:46,405
to think about, but I tried to,

1554
00:54:47,444 --> 00:54:49,545
I didn't wanna have this problem, and so

1555
00:54:49,844 --> 00:54:51,625
I just kinda pretended like I didn't.

1556
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:53,989
Yeah. What would what would you say to

1557
00:54:53,989 --> 00:54:55,909
the men dealing with this so that it

1558
00:54:55,909 --> 00:54:58,630
doesn't get to a point where they're starting

1559
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:59,909
to cross lines that,

1560
00:55:00,389 --> 00:55:01,449
they can't be undone?

1561
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:06,469
I would go back to I just keep

1562
00:55:06,469 --> 00:55:08,554
going back to this. It is really hard

1563
00:55:08,554 --> 00:55:10,234
to move up again, going to move back

1564
00:55:10,234 --> 00:55:12,795
to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's hard to

1565
00:55:12,795 --> 00:55:13,434
move up,

1566
00:55:13,994 --> 00:55:14,494
unless

1567
00:55:14,875 --> 00:55:17,375
into that greater fulfillment and happiness and joy,

1568
00:55:17,514 --> 00:55:19,674
unless you have worked through those key things.

1569
00:55:19,674 --> 00:55:20,174
And

1570
00:55:20,570 --> 00:55:22,889
you can't, like, bypass this. There's no, like,

1571
00:55:22,889 --> 00:55:23,389
shortcut.

1572
00:55:23,769 --> 00:55:25,610
It is doing that deep work. And I

1573
00:55:25,610 --> 00:55:27,849
think, unfortunately, for men, it's often so much

1574
00:55:27,849 --> 00:55:28,750
harder because

1575
00:55:29,530 --> 00:55:31,929
there's that stigma of, like, feeling your feelings

1576
00:55:31,929 --> 00:55:34,409
and diving into those emotions and therapy. All

1577
00:55:34,409 --> 00:55:35,630
of these things are, like,

1578
00:55:36,434 --> 00:55:38,914
hard for a lot of men. I love

1579
00:55:38,914 --> 00:55:40,755
working with men for that reason because I'm

1580
00:55:40,755 --> 00:55:43,155
like, good for you. Way to, like, break

1581
00:55:43,155 --> 00:55:44,515
through that. But,

1582
00:55:45,315 --> 00:55:47,875
yeah, not not thinking you can bypass that,

1583
00:55:47,875 --> 00:55:49,440
but jumping into that hard work.

1584
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,480
You're you mentioned this a little bit with

1585
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,239
your wife, how she has been able to

1586
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,339
do that, like, how she has this compassion

1587
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:56,900
now,

1588
00:55:57,359 --> 00:55:57,859
for

1589
00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:01,440
that child Roland and that current Roland and

1590
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,625
herself. I think that this is a key

1591
00:56:03,764 --> 00:56:06,105
important part speaking to men and women

1592
00:56:06,644 --> 00:56:09,125
that, we often go quickly to, hey, let's

1593
00:56:09,125 --> 00:56:11,045
get let's get therapy. Let's get help. Let's

1594
00:56:11,045 --> 00:56:12,804
do this. Let's do this. But unless you

1595
00:56:12,804 --> 00:56:14,984
can get to that part where you really

1596
00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:17,469
sit in that, those things that you have

1597
00:56:17,469 --> 00:56:19,250
been running from for so long

1598
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:21,409
to have that compassion

1599
00:56:22,750 --> 00:56:25,869
for, first and foremost, yourself. Like, it starts

1600
00:56:25,869 --> 00:56:28,825
with your your child self. That validation, that

1601
00:56:28,825 --> 00:56:29,644
self compassion,

1602
00:56:30,105 --> 00:56:31,945
really feel that. Like, I did it through

1603
00:56:31,945 --> 00:56:33,704
EMDR, but you can do it many different

1604
00:56:33,704 --> 00:56:34,204
ways.

1605
00:56:34,505 --> 00:56:37,704
It wasn't until I could truly honestly do

1606
00:56:37,704 --> 00:56:38,204
that

1607
00:56:38,744 --> 00:56:40,344
that you can move on to, like, giving

1608
00:56:40,344 --> 00:56:42,730
that to other people, and you can really

1609
00:56:42,730 --> 00:56:44,970
do deep healing. So I'd say for men

1610
00:56:44,970 --> 00:56:45,470
especially,

1611
00:56:46,090 --> 00:56:48,250
don't run from your fears. That feeling is

1612
00:56:48,250 --> 00:56:49,550
the emotional intelligence,

1613
00:56:50,010 --> 00:56:51,150
that growth because,

1614
00:56:51,450 --> 00:56:53,369
yeah, it's gonna be uncomfortable, but you're gonna

1615
00:56:53,369 --> 00:56:56,570
be such a better human and better parent

1616
00:56:56,570 --> 00:56:57,230
and spouse

1617
00:56:57,664 --> 00:56:59,125
by leaning into that.

1618
00:56:59,585 --> 00:57:01,264
I think that's why this is so painful

1619
00:57:01,264 --> 00:57:01,764
is

1620
00:57:02,224 --> 00:57:02,724
what,

1621
00:57:03,184 --> 00:57:06,065
what being discovered does is it forces, I

1622
00:57:06,065 --> 00:57:07,605
really believe this, it forces

1623
00:57:07,984 --> 00:57:09,824
the wife and the husband, whether whether whether

1624
00:57:09,824 --> 00:57:11,264
you guys decide to stay together or get

1625
00:57:11,264 --> 00:57:13,139
divorced, you're you're, you know, so for everybody

1626
00:57:13,139 --> 00:57:14,820
listening to this, even if you're making the

1627
00:57:14,820 --> 00:57:16,579
divorce decision or your wife has decided to

1628
00:57:16,579 --> 00:57:18,500
leave you, do not think that you're off

1629
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:20,179
the hook for doing the work. And for

1630
00:57:20,179 --> 00:57:21,380
her, I don't think that she's off the

1631
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:22,980
hook for doing the work. I think what

1632
00:57:22,980 --> 00:57:25,400
this forced my wife and I to do

1633
00:57:25,674 --> 00:57:27,434
as much as both of us you know,

1634
00:57:27,434 --> 00:57:28,795
it's always painful to get this out of

1635
00:57:28,795 --> 00:57:29,994
your mouth and say this is the best

1636
00:57:29,994 --> 00:57:31,994
thing that ever happened to us because, oh

1637
00:57:31,994 --> 00:57:33,914
my gosh, the the ugliness, like, how how

1638
00:57:33,914 --> 00:57:35,674
can you ever say that? But at the

1639
00:57:35,674 --> 00:57:37,674
same time, the growth that we've been the

1640
00:57:37,674 --> 00:57:39,454
people we've been forced to become.

1641
00:57:39,890 --> 00:57:41,750
And what I mean by forced is

1642
00:57:42,369 --> 00:57:43,269
when this happens,

1643
00:57:44,130 --> 00:57:46,550
you are pulled out of the matrix of,

1644
00:57:46,690 --> 00:57:49,090
oh, everything's perfect, and, oh, it's great. And

1645
00:57:49,090 --> 00:57:51,090
we're just gonna keep upgrading our cars and

1646
00:57:51,090 --> 00:57:54,469
upgrading our houses and upgrading our vacations, and

1647
00:57:54,775 --> 00:57:56,775
our kids are gonna bring their grandkids. And,

1648
00:57:56,775 --> 00:57:59,335
you know, we all buy into that, narrative.

1649
00:57:59,335 --> 00:58:01,094
But, you know, what I think this shows

1650
00:58:01,094 --> 00:58:03,014
everyone is this world's full of a lot

1651
00:58:03,014 --> 00:58:03,514
of,

1652
00:58:04,614 --> 00:58:06,614
people who have been hurt in a lot

1653
00:58:06,614 --> 00:58:07,994
of different ways. And,

1654
00:58:09,179 --> 00:58:10,780
you have to, you have to face it.

1655
00:58:10,780 --> 00:58:13,739
And, I think it's the tough thing about

1656
00:58:13,739 --> 00:58:15,340
this. And I think it's, it's like pouring

1657
00:58:15,340 --> 00:58:17,579
out here. You already have this betrayal and

1658
00:58:17,579 --> 00:58:19,260
then you pour a bunch of gasoline on

1659
00:58:19,260 --> 00:58:20,380
it. It's, oh, by the way, this is

1660
00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:22,859
going to resurface every, every problem you've ever

1661
00:58:22,859 --> 00:58:23,625
had in your life.

1662
00:58:24,425 --> 00:58:26,025
But like I said, I think I'm, I'm

1663
00:58:26,025 --> 00:58:28,184
glad you went there because I think the

1664
00:58:28,184 --> 00:58:30,125
couples that choose not to

1665
00:58:31,864 --> 00:58:34,905
accept that challenge of this to do list

1666
00:58:34,905 --> 00:58:35,565
that is,

1667
00:58:36,344 --> 00:58:38,529
gosh, it seems like it just grows every

1668
00:58:38,529 --> 00:58:39,269
day and

1669
00:58:39,809 --> 00:58:41,429
it grows faster than it shrinks.

1670
00:58:42,449 --> 00:58:44,309
But I think to your point, I think

1671
00:58:44,529 --> 00:58:46,449
you have two options. If you can look

1672
00:58:46,449 --> 00:58:47,569
at that and you don't want to do

1673
00:58:47,569 --> 00:58:48,069
it,

1674
00:58:48,609 --> 00:58:50,389
I would just brace yourself for

1675
00:58:51,105 --> 00:58:52,704
whatever that's gonna be. I I don't know

1676
00:58:52,704 --> 00:58:53,985
how it's gonna end for you. I think

1677
00:58:53,985 --> 00:58:55,105
I I to me, I think you I

1678
00:58:55,105 --> 00:58:56,864
think you only have one choice, one choice,

1679
00:58:56,864 --> 00:58:59,204
one. That's why I say forces couples is

1680
00:58:59,264 --> 00:59:01,264
it forces you to deal with all of

1681
00:59:01,264 --> 00:59:03,184
it. And so, that's that's what I would

1682
00:59:03,184 --> 00:59:04,619
say off the back of that is,

1683
00:59:05,019 --> 00:59:06,720
if you have been affected by this,

1684
00:59:08,860 --> 00:59:10,300
I know it doesn't feel like it now,

1685
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:12,220
but, it will be a gift. I promise

1686
00:59:12,220 --> 00:59:13,420
you for those, for those of you who

1687
00:59:13,420 --> 00:59:14,140
do the work,

1688
00:59:14,460 --> 00:59:17,180
you will see a level of truth in

1689
00:59:17,180 --> 00:59:19,039
yourself, in the world and others

1690
00:59:19,715 --> 00:59:22,434
that you will once you see it, you'll

1691
00:59:22,434 --> 00:59:24,275
think, man, I almost went a whole life

1692
00:59:24,275 --> 00:59:26,755
without without knowing this. Oh, my gosh. What

1693
00:59:26,755 --> 00:59:28,434
attract you? Would I have even lived? That's

1694
00:59:28,434 --> 00:59:30,275
what I asked myself. Like, I thought I

1695
00:59:30,275 --> 00:59:32,309
was living my life that wasn't living. I

1696
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:34,869
was living in my life. This is actually

1697
00:59:34,869 --> 00:59:35,849
living my life.

1698
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:39,430
Thanks for coming today. Oh my gosh. How

1699
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:41,050
was this for you? Are you okay?

1700
00:59:42,150 --> 00:59:44,309
Yes. I mean, you can I get, like,

1701
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:45,750
all red and splotchy when I get really

1702
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:48,045
emotional, which almost never happens anymore? So, like,

1703
00:59:48,364 --> 00:59:51,565
yeah, this was this was an emotional workout.

1704
00:59:51,565 --> 00:59:52,065
I

1705
00:59:53,005 --> 00:59:54,364
wasn't sure if I was ready for it,

1706
00:59:54,364 --> 00:59:56,284
but it was really healing. And just like

1707
00:59:56,284 --> 00:59:58,204
you're talking about with those that are leaning

1708
00:59:58,204 --> 00:59:59,565
in to do this work, like, I think

1709
00:59:59,565 --> 01:00:00,924
you mentioned this to me once before. I'd

1710
01:00:00,924 --> 01:00:02,844
heard it already, but the opposite of addiction

1711
01:00:02,844 --> 01:00:05,380
is connection. Like, there's just so much more

1712
01:00:05,380 --> 01:00:07,239
fulfillment and joy and beauty

1713
01:00:07,940 --> 01:00:08,920
that comes from

1714
01:00:09,699 --> 01:00:12,579
leaning in, sometimes diving in to something that

1715
01:00:12,579 --> 01:00:13,079
is

1716
01:00:13,460 --> 01:00:15,480
really hard. And, Roland,

1717
01:00:16,034 --> 01:00:16,534
you

1718
01:00:16,835 --> 01:00:18,994
allowed me to be into this space come

1719
01:00:18,994 --> 01:00:20,914
to this space where it was something very

1720
01:00:20,914 --> 01:00:21,815
hard, very

1721
01:00:22,914 --> 01:00:24,594
dark. It has been for a lot of

1722
01:00:24,594 --> 01:00:26,375
years in my life, this particular

1723
01:00:26,755 --> 01:00:28,914
subject. And I know I'm speaking to it

1724
01:00:28,914 --> 01:00:29,414
as

1725
01:00:29,940 --> 01:00:32,579
the child of somebody that was struggling, but

1726
01:00:32,579 --> 01:00:35,059
we all it's like a family affair. Right?

1727
01:00:35,059 --> 01:00:36,739
It is. So thank you for allowing me

1728
01:00:36,739 --> 01:00:38,500
to be on to speak to something that

1729
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:40,920
I've been too afraid to speak to yet.

1730
01:00:41,219 --> 01:00:43,219
And I I wanna one more plug there.

1731
01:00:43,219 --> 01:00:44,659
For any of you who haven't seen the

1732
01:00:44,659 --> 01:00:45,864
Intimacy Pyramid,

1733
01:00:46,184 --> 01:00:47,545
Dan Drake and the Rav Smiths kind of

1734
01:00:47,545 --> 01:00:48,664
brought it. I don't know if you've seen

1735
01:00:48,664 --> 01:00:49,485
that, but

1736
01:00:49,945 --> 01:00:52,184
you need all of those elements in that

1737
01:00:52,184 --> 01:00:54,744
order to have an intimate connection. And again,

1738
01:00:54,744 --> 01:00:56,744
that's not sec we're not talking about sexual.

1739
01:00:56,744 --> 01:00:58,859
It's that's just an intimate connection between you

1740
01:00:58,859 --> 01:00:59,900
and I. And,

1741
01:01:00,699 --> 01:01:01,199
vulnerability

1742
01:01:01,579 --> 01:01:04,059
is, I think, second to the top. And,

1743
01:01:04,380 --> 01:01:06,859
you if you are if you aren't being

1744
01:01:06,859 --> 01:01:09,819
truly vulnerable with people, can you experience intimate

1745
01:01:09,819 --> 01:01:12,059
connections with with them? Right? And I think

1746
01:01:12,059 --> 01:01:14,534
that's that's what I have learned about having

1747
01:01:14,534 --> 01:01:16,855
this podcast and having to share some of

1748
01:01:16,855 --> 01:01:18,534
the most humiliating things that I've ever had

1749
01:01:18,534 --> 01:01:20,375
in my life. It's opened up this cool

1750
01:01:20,375 --> 01:01:23,034
portal to having a relationship with all people

1751
01:01:23,175 --> 01:01:25,014
that I just simply couldn't have had before.

1752
01:01:25,014 --> 01:01:26,375
And, so I thank you for that because

1753
01:01:26,375 --> 01:01:27,815
that was what this was an example of

1754
01:01:27,815 --> 01:01:30,160
today was I'm not gonna be scared of

1755
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,640
humans anymore. If they want to judge me,

1756
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,559
that's their choice, but I'm not going to

1757
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:36,800
be scared of their judgment anymore because the

1758
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,239
only person who pays the price for that

1759
01:01:38,239 --> 01:01:39,140
is you and me.

1760
01:01:40,734 --> 01:01:42,574
Absolutely. Thanks for coming on today. This was

1761
01:01:42,574 --> 01:01:44,434
awesome. Thank you so much,

1762
01:01:44,894 --> 01:01:46,974
Robin. Thanks for listening to this episode. If

1763
01:01:46,974 --> 01:01:48,494
you are a high achiever with a sex

1764
01:01:48,494 --> 01:01:50,414
addiction and you're looking for a recovery group

1765
01:01:50,414 --> 01:01:53,800
full of like minded men, visit successaddict.com.

1766
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,599
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1767
01:01:56,599 --> 01:01:57,819
using four day retreats,

1768
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,000
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

1769
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,239
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

1770
01:02:03,239 --> 01:02:05,159
save your marriage, go to our website and

1771
01:02:05,159 --> 01:02:06,059
fill out our application.

1772
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,894
If you enjoyed this episode, please pass it

1773
01:02:08,894 --> 01:02:10,494
along to a friend in recovery who would

1774
01:02:10,494 --> 01:02:12,494
benefit from listening. It is my mission to

1775
01:02:12,494 --> 01:02:14,175
get this information out to as many high

1776
01:02:14,175 --> 01:02:16,494
achievers as possible, and I can't do it

1777
01:02:16,494 --> 01:02:17,474
without your help.