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– Have you gone back? Is it really emotional

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– dysregulation? Do you really have that issue and

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– is that really the driver of your sexual

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– acting out? And then from a childhood trauma

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– standpoint,

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– like, yes. In the beginning, you were learning

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– about all of these things around what is

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– a healthy childhood and what is an unhealthy

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– childhood. Right? So you start to realize, okay.

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– Maybe my childhood and my upbringing wasn’t as

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– perfect. And it might not have even been

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– your parents. It could have been mentors, your

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– friend crowd, etcetera. There’s lots of things that

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– can go wrong in childhood that would lead

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– to you seeking attention from women and having

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– an unhealthy relationship with sex. But again, my

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– point of this episode is, have you gone

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– back and actually seen if that was really

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– true?

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– You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

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– for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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– This podcast is designed to apply

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– and recovery principles specifically to the mindset of

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– the high achiever. I’m your host, Roland Cochran,

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– founder of The Successful Addict, a recovery group

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– for high achieving men struggling with sex and

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– porn addiction. For more information about joining our

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– group or attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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– And now enjoy the rest of the episode.

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– Have you revisited

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– the definition of sobriety and recovery?

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– And here’s the reason I bring this up.

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– Right? It’s it’s, it’s important to do, especially

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– for those who plan to stay sober and

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– go into a long term recovery.

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– And we know, right, their relapse rates extremely

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– high in this, in this addiction, right? They,

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– they say it’s just shy of seventy percent

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– of men who are experiencing significant relapse five

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– years into recovery. Now I I don’t bring

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– that statistic up to scare you. I don’t

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– think that is a guaranteed thing. In fact,

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– I know it’s not a guaranteed thing. I

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– have not experienced a significant relapse and in

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– my groups we see something like less than

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– two percent of men who experience a relapse.

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– So it is something that’s absolutely avoidable.

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– But I I think that a lot of

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– people are going about it the wrong way.

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– And this episode, I think, is gonna highlight

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– probably what I believe is one of the

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– biggest threats to that. And that is that

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– we don’t revisit

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– what your recovery is, what your sobriety is.

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– Right? And that’s one of the tricky things

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– with sex addiction is unlike substance addiction where

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– not using the substance is the definition of

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– of sobriety. In sex addiction, because sex is

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– such a fluid thing, it means different things

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– to different people. Right? There’s religious beliefs, personal

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– personal morals and values. There’s marital contracts that

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– you’ve committed to. Right? So it’s the it’s

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– this fluid thing that that really needs to

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– be defined by the individual. There is no

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– standard definition of what is healthy and what

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– is unhealthy. It’s kind of different from person

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– to person. Well, the problem with that is

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– we have to define our sobriety and and

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– we have to find the recovery path that

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– will maintain it. Well, the problem is we

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– have to figure out what we’re addicted to

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– or what we’re compulsive around or what our

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– problem was. Right? As as many of the

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– listeners know, I’m not a massive fan of

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– calling this a sex addiction because I actually

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– don’t think that many men are addicted to

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– it in that traditional sense. Right? I think

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– many of them have have other drivers that

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– have have caused them to act out. So

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– I really would encourage you guys to come

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– back and redefine

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– or at least revisit

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– your definition of sobriety and the recovery that

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– you need to engage in in order to

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– achieve it. So what do I mean by

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– this? Well, think about it. When you first

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– get into this whole thing, you know, you

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– first get discovered by your wife or you

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– first decide that, hey. I have a problem.

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– I need to I need to go about

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– stopping this. We really lean heavily on the

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– books, the podcast, the literature, your therapist,

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– maybe some other guys that you’ve met in

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– recovery. Right? We really lean on them to

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– help us figure out how to recover, how

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– to get sober, what sobriety is. Here’s the

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– problem with that though. Remember, this is an

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– individual

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– thing. Right? The definitions of of sobriety and

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– healthy sexuality differ from person to person. And

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– also,

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– the addiction itself or the compulsivity itself or

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– the reason that we saw the infidelity or

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– the or the sexual acting out, the cause

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– and the why changes from person to person

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– to person. So think about it. When you

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– first get into this, here you are, you’re

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– going through like, let’s say you buy one

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– of the workbooks out there and you’re working

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– through the workbook. I would say the bulk

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– of the workbooks and the literature out there,

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– you know, because ITAP and the CSATs have

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– kind of dominated this field, there are other

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– professional groups out there. ITAP has just definitely

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– had probably the biggest presence. Right? So when

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– you see here the word CSAT, a CSAT,

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– certified sex addiction therapist, that is one vertical,

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– one certification.

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– There are others out there, many others out

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– there. So the point of this is ITAP

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– and the CSATs have definitely

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– done a great job of really getting this

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– information out there. The issue with that is

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– there’s very much this because it’s CSAT, certified

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– sex addiction therapist. Most of the literature out

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– there is very addiction focused. Right? So there’s

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– a massive emphasis on you do this because

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– you cannot regulate your emotions. Right? So there’s

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– the belief that all of this sexual acting

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– out is because of, yeah, you know, sadness,

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– stress,

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– unworthiness,

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– feeling unlovable,

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– etcetera. Right? So the emotion you’re feeling this

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– unwanted emotion and then you turn to sex

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– pornography, women, paid sex, whatever, as a way

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– to pacify that. That could be the case.

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– That could be the case. I’ve definitely met

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– men who do this as response to uncomfortable

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– emotions that they don’t wanna feel. Okay? So

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– so that definitely can be the case. But

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– is it always the case? I haven’t found

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– that. Certainly, at least amongst the men in

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– my groups, I would say that’s actually probably

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– like one in five guys, maybe even one

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– in ten guys who are actually

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– triggered by a stress response or something else,

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– and that triggers them to go act out

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– sexually. That is a problem. But to assume

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– that’s your problem,

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– now I would ask the guys who are

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– listening to this. If you are, you know,

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– if you if you’re in six months into

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– recovery, one year into recovery,

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– go back and really ask yourself, was was

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– that the driver?

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– Was it emotional? Was it dysregulation of your

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– emotions that led you to do it? Personally,

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– that was not the case for me. In

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– fact, when I was stressed, sad, angry, frustrated,

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– that was actually the times that I was

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– the most sober. I don’t actually don’t feel

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– like doing anything sexually when I’m depressed or

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– angry or frustrated or overwhelmed.

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– That’s actually the times that I’m the most

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– sober. Right? I’m usually focused on getting out

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– of that stressful situation rather than escaping it.

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– And a lot of high achieving men, I

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– think that’s a typical pattern for them. Right?

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– Avoiding

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– things is actually not their preferred avenue. They

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– like to meet things head on. And so

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– that’s that’s a a dominant belief. Another dominant

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– belief is that you were traumatized in some

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– way as a, you know, your childhood trauma

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– and that that childhood trauma directly has has

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– led to a lot of this.

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– Yes. And have you revisited that concept? Because,

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– again, I think, you know, there’s this emphasis

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– on, you know, maybe sexual trauma or maybe

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– parents who lacked attunement. And, yes, again, there

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– are guys in my groups who that is

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– absolutely what happened to them and led to

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– the behavior, but not always But not always.

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– I would say a good amount of the

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– guys in my group, yes, we were traumatized

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– as children in the sense that we were

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– raised in a performance based household.

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– Right? And so, so much of our grades,

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– our performance, our how good we were acting,

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– right, how we that was how we were

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– measured. Right? Our family had a massive emphasis

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– on being good, excelling, etcetera. Right? And so

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– we we learned that by improving and and

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– being better at performing. Right? Getting better and

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– better grades, making more money, achieving, you know,

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– getting into a good school, climbing the ladder

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– in your career, etcetera.

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– That that was how you become a valuable

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– human being. Right? So we had this, which

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– is trauma. Right? And so we had this

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– overemphasis

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– on performance and and and excelling and being

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– better than others. And again, that is childhood

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– trauma. Okay. And that can lead to you

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– then seeking attention and validation. Right? Because that’s

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– that’s the issue with performance based praise. So

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– my my point of all this is is

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– have you gone back? Is it really emotional

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– dysregulation?

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– Do you really have that issue and is

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– that really the driver of your sexual acting

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– out? And then from a childhood trauma standpoint,

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– like, yes, in the beginning you were learning

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– about all of these things around what is

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– a healthy childhood and what is an unhealthy

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– childhood. And most people are realizing that, yeah,

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– if you were born before 2026, you did

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– you did not have a healthy childhood. Parents

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– just, you know, that were were really starting

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– to figure out how to parent kids. Right?

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– So you started to realize, okay, maybe my

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– childhood and my upbringing wasn’t as perfect. And

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– it might not have even been your parents.

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– It could have been mentors, your friend crowd,

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– etcetera. There’s lots of things that can go

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– wrong in childhood that would lead to you

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– seeking attention from women and having an unhealthy

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– relationship with sex. But again, my point of

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– of this episode is have you gone back

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– and actually seen if that was really true?

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– Because I do. I think I think when

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– we get into this, we’re reading the books

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– and and our therapists and and the other

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– guys we meet, they’re all trying to help

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– us figure out how this happened. But I

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– always found it quite interesting because it was

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– like, oh, everybody was like, oh, I I

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– I got stressed and then they acted out.

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– And I just I never resonated with that

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– ever. That was never a pattern of mine.

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– Like I said, I like to face problems

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– head on. So I my preferred addiction is

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– most of you who listen to this episode.

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– Right? I would go seek out women to

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– get their attention, their validation.

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– It was that conquesting and that conquering and

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– getting their attention

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– that made me feel good. And so it

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– wasn’t an escaping my emotions. In fact, when

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– I was in my bad emotional states, right,

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– I chose to meet it head on. So

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– my point of all of this is basically

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– go back to that narrative that you told

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– yourself about what made you act out and

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– revisit. And And here’s the reason I’m saying

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– this. Again, a lot of people are like,

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– Ron, this is all semantics. Why does this

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– matter? It does matter because it then

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– determines your recovery plan.

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– Because think about it. If it really is

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– stress

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– at work

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– or feeling unlovable or something like this in

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– your in your home or in your marriage,

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– etcetera,

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– if that is the trigger, then that’s your

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– recovery work. Your recovery work is I need

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– to decrease stress in my life and I

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– need to increase my self worth and my

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– lovability. So I’m not using porn or sex

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– or women to escape that. But think about

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– it. If that’s actually not what drove your

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– behavior,

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– but all of your recovery is around stress

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– management

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– and feeling worthy,

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– you might act actually be in recovery.

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– Right? If that’s not it’s not the driver.

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– Because for me, when I first got into

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– it, just like many of the guys, right,

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– that was kind of the narrative was I’m

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– using this to escape. I’m using this to

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– escape. Right? So I I was like, oh,

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– okay. Thank thank you for telling me. And

286
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– so I got into recovery to try to,

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– again, right, manage my emotions, learn how to

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– emotionally regulate in healthy ways. The problem was

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– my addiction really didn’t go didn’t go anywhere

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– because that wasn’t what caused me to act

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– out. And so thank goodness I kinda recognized

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– that. I was like, you know, a lot

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– of this recovery work, you know, I’m doing

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– all these check ins with my wife as

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– this as if I’m gonna, like, act out

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– at any second, and that’s not really my

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– issue. Right? You know, when I when I

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– got discovered by my wife, it wasn’t hard

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– for me to stop these behaviors, honestly. It

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– was actually quite easy to stop, and I

301
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– really was thinking, you know, I I won’t

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– go back to this. I don’t think that’s

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– gonna be that hard. Now, again, I found

304
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– some of the thoughts kinda creeping back in

305
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– a year later, but it wasn’t from stress.

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– It was from wanting

307
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– val attention, validation. It was for the excitement

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– of and the novelty of conquesting after women,

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– etcetera. Like, it still wasn’t emotional dis you

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– know, it wasn’t like, oh, I’m so stressed

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– out. Because I I really don’t live a

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– very stressful life. I’ve done extremely well for

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– myself. I’ve sold businesses, built businesses. So stress

314
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– just wasn’t necessarily a massive issue for me.

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– A lot of it was, again, feeling like

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– if I don’t have attention from other people

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– that I am not okay. Right? So that

318
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– was really what I needed to focus on

319
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– in recovery was why do I feel like

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– I need to be special?

321
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– Why do I feel like I need to

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– be superior? Why do I feel like I

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– constantly need people to tell me how great

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– I am, how successful I am, how attractive

325
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– I am? Why can’t I just give that

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– to myself? Why can’t I just be okay

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– as is? Why do I always need external

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– validation?

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– And so I’m giving you these examples just

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– to say if I would have focused

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– on my stress response being the cause of

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– all of this or healing childhood trauma, it

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– would have really slowed down my the actual

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– recovery that I needed. Because the biggest threat

335
00:11:15.195 –> 00:11:17.659
– to me truly was being out in public,

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– being out on work conferences, being out, you

337
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– know, meeting people at the air in airport

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– lounges, what whatever it be. Like, it was

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– really the public and my desire to interact

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– with women that was probably the biggest threat.

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– Right? The the pornography and all the paid

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– sex and different things like, you know, that

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– stuff I actually really wasn’t worried about getting

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– into. It was those random interactions at conferences

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– etcetera where I where I I really saw

346
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– the biggest threat. And I asked myself, am

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– I gonna be able to stop that? And

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– my wife would even ask me. She would

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– say, Roland, if you go and and one

350
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– of these women at at one of these

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– conferences decides to flirt with you, come on

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– to you, are you going to respect the

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– marriage? Are you going to find a way

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– to get out of that situation?

355
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– Or are you going to drink it in

356
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– and enjoy it?

357
00:12:00.815 –> 00:12:02.095
– And my wife would always say, she’s like,

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– I’m not worried about you sleeping with them.

359
00:12:04.014 –> 00:12:05.375
– I I think you’re gonna draw the line

360
00:12:05.375 –> 00:12:06.735
– there. My wife was just like, I what

361
00:12:06.735 –> 00:12:08.894
– I do am concerned with is, are you

362
00:12:08.894 –> 00:12:10.654
– going to let her flirt with you, and

363
00:12:10.654 –> 00:12:11.855
– are you gonna start to like it and

364
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– flirt back a little bit? And you know

365
00:12:13.360 –> 00:12:14.800
– what I told her? I was like, gosh.

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– I I can’t tell you if I would

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– stop that yet. Alright? That’s what I really

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– told her. This was, like, two years or

369
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– three years into recovery. Two years into recovery,

370
00:12:22.320 –> 00:12:23.759
– I think. I was like, I don’t know.

371
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– I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t

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00:12:24.639 –> 00:12:26.674
– know. And so that was the point was

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– my recovery really needed to shift towards, you

374
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– know, stop needing other esteem and external validation.

375
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– Right? Stop pursuing

376
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– awards and buying fancy things and having other

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– people look at me and tell me how

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– great I am. Why can’t I be great

379
00:12:40.174 –> 00:12:42.200
– on my own? Now, again, what’s my challenge

380
00:12:42.200 –> 00:12:43.959
– for you? Go back for you guys. Right?

381
00:12:43.959 –> 00:12:45.639
– The reason I’m I’m giving you examples of

382
00:12:45.639 –> 00:12:47.399
– me is because I’ve only had my addiction.

383
00:12:47.399 –> 00:12:49.000
– I haven’t or a compulsion. I haven’t really

384
00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:50.600
– had, you know, for the listeners, I haven’t

385
00:12:50.600 –> 00:12:52.519
– had the problem that you have, and nobody

386
00:12:52.519 –> 00:12:54.925
– has. Right? Every single person has a unique

387
00:12:54.925 –> 00:12:57.004
– driver that has caused them to to act

388
00:12:57.004 –> 00:12:59.004
– out in this way. So for those of

389
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– you who have not really gone back to

390
00:13:00.605 –> 00:13:03.904
– really ask yourself, what is my sex addiction,

391
00:13:03.965 –> 00:13:06.045
– my process addiction? Right? What are these brain

392
00:13:06.045 –> 00:13:08.580
– processes I’m addicted to? What was I really

393
00:13:08.580 –> 00:13:10.500
– after when I was acting out? Was it

394
00:13:10.500 –> 00:13:12.039
– really stress and emotional

395
00:13:12.419 –> 00:13:14.899
– sadness and what was it really emotions or

396
00:13:14.899 –> 00:13:16.580
– was it something different? Were you pursuing and

397
00:13:16.580 –> 00:13:18.659
– chasing something else? And the reason I’m asking

398
00:13:18.659 –> 00:13:19.860
– all of you to challenge this is then

399
00:13:19.860 –> 00:13:21.299
– go back and look at your recovery and

400
00:13:21.299 –> 00:13:23.000
– say, have I changed?

401
00:13:23.345 –> 00:13:26.065
– Have I actually eliminated these threats? Because again,

402
00:13:26.065 –> 00:13:28.065
– I think the reason we see a high

403
00:13:28.065 –> 00:13:30.705
– level of relapse in this particular field is

404
00:13:30.705 –> 00:13:32.545
– not because the men aren’t doing the work.

405
00:13:32.545 –> 00:13:34.465
– It’s not because they don’t wanna recover. It’s

406
00:13:34.465 –> 00:13:36.384
– not because they really, really wanna relapse and

407
00:13:36.384 –> 00:13:38.144
– they’re like these crazy addicts. I don’t believe

408
00:13:38.144 –> 00:13:40.259
– any of that. I believe that they have

409
00:13:40.259 –> 00:13:42.179
– not focused on the right things in recovery.

410
00:13:42.179 –> 00:13:44.580
– And so then when these potential threats enter

411
00:13:44.580 –> 00:13:46.919
– their life, they’re actually not equipped

412
00:13:47.220 –> 00:13:49.399
– to say no. They’re not equipped to neutralize

413
00:13:49.460 –> 00:13:51.220
– that situation. And then one thing leads to

414
00:13:51.220 –> 00:13:53.595
– another and and they find themselves relapsing. And

415
00:13:53.595 –> 00:13:54.975
– this is a very unfortunate

416
00:13:55.274 –> 00:13:57.274
– and common story, but I don’t think it

417
00:13:57.274 –> 00:13:58.554
– has to happen. I think if you really

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– focus on doing your recovery work for your

419
00:14:01.595 –> 00:14:03.674
– unique process addiction and not letting the books

420
00:14:03.674 –> 00:14:05.274
– tell you what problem you have, the book

421
00:14:05.274 –> 00:14:07.000
– doesn’t know who you are. Don’t let my

422
00:14:07.000 –> 00:14:09.079
– podcast tell you what problem you have. I’ve

423
00:14:09.079 –> 00:14:10.519
– met some of you, and some of you

424
00:14:10.519 –> 00:14:11.759
– are in my program, but I haven’t met

425
00:14:11.759 –> 00:14:13.240
– a lot of you. Right? So don’t let

426
00:14:13.240 –> 00:14:15.559
– me define your addiction. Don’t let your therapist

427
00:14:15.559 –> 00:14:16.459
– define your addiction.

428
00:14:16.759 –> 00:14:18.764
– Right? Really reflect back and ask yourself, what

429
00:14:18.764 –> 00:14:20.445
– was I after? What was I getting out

430
00:14:20.445 –> 00:14:21.565
– of all of this? And have I done

431
00:14:21.565 –> 00:14:23.485
– the recovery work to remove it from my

432
00:14:23.485 –> 00:14:23.985
– life?

433
00:14:25.165 –> 00:14:27.325
– Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

434
00:14:27.325 –> 00:14:29.085
– are a high achiever of the sex addiction

435
00:14:29.085 –> 00:14:30.845
– and you’re looking for a recovery group full

436
00:14:30.845 –> 00:14:33.940
– of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

437
00:14:33.940 –> 00:14:36.740
– We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

438
00:14:36.740 –> 00:14:39.620
– using four day retreats, weekly group calls, and

439
00:14:39.620 –> 00:14:42.259
– daily accountability check ins. If you wanna achieve

440
00:14:42.259 –> 00:14:44.695
– long term sobriety and save your marriage, go

441
00:14:44.695 –> 00:14:46.315
– to our website and fill out our application.

442
00:14:46.534 –> 00:14:49.095
– If you enjoyed this episode, please pass it

443
00:14:49.095 –> 00:14:50.695
– along to a friend in recovery who would

444
00:14:50.695 –> 00:14:52.615
– benefit from listening. It is my mission to

445
00:14:52.615 –> 00:14:54.375
– get this information out to as many high

446
00:14:54.375 –> 00:14:56.695
– achievers as possible, and I can’t do it

447
00:14:56.695 –> 00:14:57.674
– without your help.