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– It’s in your best interest. It is, you

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– guys. It’s the best thing that we have

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– to make sure that they know everything. And,

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– yes, it’s traumatic for you and, yes, it’s

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– insanely traumatic for her and it’s just not

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– fun for anybody. It’s painful to watch as

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– a therapist. It’s just hard. It’s hard all

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– around for everybody and it sucks. But at

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– the same time, what sucks more is her

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– wondering if she knows everything

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– and having your marital healing basically frozen in

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– time and unable to move past because she

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– doesn’t necessarily know for sure that there’s not

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– more.

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– You are listening to the Sex Addiction Podcast

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– for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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– This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

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– recovery principles specifically to the mindset of the

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– high achiever. I’m your host, Roland Cochran, founder

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– of The Successful Addict, a recovery group for

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– high achieving men struggling with sex and porn

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– addiction. For more information about joining our group

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– or attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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– And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

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– An episode on full disclosure, full therapeutic disclosure.

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– I have not done an episode on this

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– in a long time, but I have a

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– lot of guys in my program right now.

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– I think I have four actively right now

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– working on their disclosures, and they’re all asking

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– the same questions. But before I get into

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– that, I wanna just summarize for the listeners

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– who are not familiar with what I’m talking

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– about with a full therapeutic disclosure. What is

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– that? So a full therapeutic disclosure for those

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– who don’t know is a document that you

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– create with your therapist,

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– a very complete document. Mine was, I think

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– like 14 pages or something like that, and

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– it’s a complete catalog of all of the

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– things you have done sexually a little bit

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– before the marriage, but primarily in the marriage,

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– and then you read this document to your

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– partner. Now, the pushback that I get always,

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– and I was, I did the same thing,

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– I had the same comments was, oh, what

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– benefit is this gonna be? All this information

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– is gonna do is traumatize my wife. It’s

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– gonna teach her way too much. She’s gonna

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– have way too many of these thoughts in

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– her head. She’s never gonna be able to

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– look at me the same way. And then,

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– of course, the scariest one, she’s gonna leave

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– me if she hears all this. I’m gonna

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– answer a lot of those questions here in

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– just a second. But the first thing I

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– wanna say is this process,

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– I am in support of this process, but

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– I also wanna empathize

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– a little bit with the guys who are

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– scared of this because it’s gonna be traumatic

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– process for you. It just is. It is

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– a this is a very sensitive,

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– embarrassing,

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– personal

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– part of your life and you are going

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– to you know for most men they were

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– not seeing their CSAT or therapist

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– prior to disclosure

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– and now you’re literally meeting this therapist and

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– going through this in this very personal embarrassing

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– story. It’s traumatic. It just is. It’s a

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– rough,

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– rough process. No question about it. It will

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– traumatize you and you will need to work

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– with your therapist after the disclosure

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– to get past that trauma. It’s just very

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– intense.

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– And let’s be real here, it’s gonna be

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– 1,000

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– times more intense for your wife. Now that

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– does not mean that your trauma is not

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– real. It does not mean that the disclosure

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– process is not gonna be traumatizing for you

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– and that and you and and I empathize

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– with you. It’s gonna suck for sure. Absolutely

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– gonna suck, and it’s gonna suck way more

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– for your wife. So, again, I’m not comparing

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– the two of your traumas. I don’t think

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– there’s any benefit to that, but I just

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– want you to know it’s it’s gonna be

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– harder for her too. So it’s just it’s

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– just ugly all around, but I am saying

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– it is gonna be hard for you. But

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– I wanna get into the pushback here because

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– a lot of people, a lot of guys

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– are like, why would I do this? What’s

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– the benefit to this? Listen, as much as

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– I hate that we have to do it

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– because it just does suck, it is necessary.

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– Your wife has no idea whether you’re being

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– honest or not. She has no idea whether

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– she’s safe or not. She has no idea

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– whether she knows everything or not, and that

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– is why this process needs to be done.

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– I mean, I I really believe that I

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– do not think that there is any meaningful

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– repair work that can be done to the

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– marriage

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– until she has the confidence that she knows

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– everything.

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– It’s for a dang good reason. It’s this

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– simple.

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– She needs to know it all to decide

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– if she wants to stay with you and

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– if she can forgive you. Right? And she

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– can’t make that decision until she knows everything.

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– So there’s really no relational healing that can

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– happen until she has all the information. And

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– that’s fair. You guys understand that, right? Like,

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– if you’re like, well, she knows almost everything,

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– but she doesn’t know this one thing. That

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– one thing could be a deal breaker.

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– I have guys in my groups who have

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– acted out with

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– their wife’s sister,

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– And that information is hard to hear. And

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– yes, sometimes that is a straw that breaks

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– the camel’s back or it’s something that she

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– can’t get past. And so what she doesn’t

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– know and for some of you, you’re like,

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– well, I didn’t do that. I hear that,

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– but she doesn’t know that you didn’t do

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– that. Right? The thing about betrayed partners is

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– they assume the worst. They assume the worst.

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– They’re gonna listen to the podcast. They’re gonna

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– hear the stories. They’re gonna join groups and

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– and talk to other women who are going

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– through this, and they’re gonna hear horror stories.

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– And they’re gonna assume that you’ve done those

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– things because you can’t be trusted. Right? And

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– you surprised her the first time. Why why

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– wouldn’t you surprise her again? Okay? So she

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– really needs to know all this so she

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– can say, okay, I know everything.

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– Let me sit with it for a week

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– or two, and no, I think I do

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– wanna try to see if we can repair

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– this marriage. Okay? But again, she just she

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– can’t she can’t knowledgeably make that until the

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– disclosure’s done. Okay? That’s just the way it

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– is. So, yeah, I’m not happy about it

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– either, but it just is the way it

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– is, and you can ask my wife. My

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– wife will say, you know, yeah, it’s not

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– a fun process. I didn’t wanna go through

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– it. I’m sorry you went through it. And

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– my wife will tell you, I there’s no

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– way in heck I could have moved forward

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– unless I had that process done. Okay? So

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– to issue the bigger one of the biggest

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– questions, right? Guys are always like, well, Roland,

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– if I say all this information, it’s gonna

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– traumatize her. She’s never gonna get past it.

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– Both of those things are not true. So,

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– yes, is it gonna traumatize her? Sure. But

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– everything you already did traumatized her. So her

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– hearing more of this, you know, yes, is

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– it gonna add to the trauma? Sure. But

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– I mean, at the same time, like, she’s

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– already traumatized in the worst way ever just

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– discovering what she’s discovered. Right? If anything, it’s

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– gonna be nice to hear the rest of

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– the crap so she can calm down and

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– stop worrying, okay? So that’s false. And then

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– she’s gonna leave you. That’s also false. You

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– know, statistics, I can’t remember. I think I

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– heard at least from what I heard now,

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– eighty four percent of couples stay together. So

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– the statistics are actually shockingly in your favor

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– that when you take ownership and you own

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– up all this stuff that you actually aren’t

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– gonna get left by your wife. And it

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– makes sense, right? Like in the end, she’s

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– already pissed. She already knows that you have

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– been sexually dishonest

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– and unfaithful, right? There’s infidelity, right? And so

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– then when you tell her more than fidelity,

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– obviously it’s gonna piss her off, but in

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– the end, like you lied, you already lied,

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– you already shattered everything about the marriage. So

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– you just getting out the rest of it

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– is, you know, I know in your mind,

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– it’s like, oh my gosh, she’s gonna leave

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– me. In her, I’m just like, dude, you’re

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– already a freaking asshole pig. Like just tell

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– me the rest of it so I can

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– decide if I wanna stay with you or

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– not. So

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– to us it’s like, oh no, I can’t

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– tell her. I’m telling you to them it’s

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– just like, just tell me the rest. Like

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– it’s again, I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt

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– worse hearing more, but at the same time,

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– like, they’ve already they’re already traumatized. They already

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– have their thoughts and opinions about what you

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– have now done and who you are.

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– The additional information, it’s really not as damning

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– as you might think. Depending what you say,

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– I’m not gonna say, you know, you you

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– might have something in there. You might have

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– something illegal or whatever that you have to

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– disclose, and it’s gonna really mess with her.

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– So it’s not always the case, but I

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– would say for most guys, they’re like, I

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– can’t tell her the number. It’s like, dude,

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– listen. She she’s gonna wanna know anyways, and

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– she’s already assuming that number, if not more

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– than that number. So just go tell her.

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– Alright? So, yeah, the statistics are actually not

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– in your favor that it’s going to ruin

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– the marriage. I haven’t seen that. I don’t

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– think any of the CSATs that I’m friends

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– with have seen that either. The other question

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– that I hear often is, again, why is

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– this necessary? I already answered that. It’s necessary

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– because she can’t knowledgeably stay with you until

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– she knows all of this. Okay. And then

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– the other one that I hear is about

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– the graphic imagery.

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– Well, I’m gonna say this, the disclosure is

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– not going to include graphic detail.

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– Okay. No CSAT is going to encourage that

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– you include what color their hair was, the

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– size of their breasts, blah blah blah. Like,

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– that is that is ridiculous. That is traumatizing.

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– So

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– what’s gonna be requested is the level of

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– detail. Right? Dates, times typically, here’s what’s typically

240
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– included. Dates, time stamps. Right? They wanna know

241
00:07:57.644 –> 00:07:59.724
– where you were. They wanna know who it

242
00:07:59.724 –> 00:08:01.884
– was with and if you repeated doing it

243
00:08:01.884 –> 00:08:04.125
– with that person. They wanna know to what

244
00:08:04.125 –> 00:08:06.125
– level. Right? Was it oral sex? Was it

245
00:08:06.125 –> 00:08:08.604
– manual stimulation? Was it intercourse? They wanna know

246
00:08:08.604 –> 00:08:10.365
– if you wore protection and then they wanna

247
00:08:10.365 –> 00:08:12.840
– know if you spent money. Okay? And I

248
00:08:12.840 –> 00:08:13.960
– believe all, you know, a lot of people

249
00:08:13.960 –> 00:08:15.879
– are like, man, that sounds insane. I’m like,

250
00:08:15.879 –> 00:08:19.319
– nope, that sounds very normal. Like protection, why

251
00:08:19.319 –> 00:08:20.680
– does she wanna know that? Because she wants

252
00:08:20.680 –> 00:08:22.040
– to know how safe she is and how

253
00:08:22.040 –> 00:08:23.319
– health been if she has to worry about

254
00:08:23.319 –> 00:08:25.175
– her health, How much money spent? It’s her

255
00:08:25.175 –> 00:08:27.574
– freaking money too. Right? This affects her. How

256
00:08:27.574 –> 00:08:28.855
– much of the money you spend? That’s a

257
00:08:28.855 –> 00:08:31.175
– very valid question. Right? Dates and locations. She’s

258
00:08:31.175 –> 00:08:33.095
– trying to understand when and how the heck

259
00:08:33.095 –> 00:08:33.835
– this happened

260
00:08:34.215 –> 00:08:35.654
– because if she’s gonna stay with you, she

261
00:08:35.654 –> 00:08:37.179
– needs to know, she needs to understand, like,

262
00:08:37.179 –> 00:08:38.860
– when was he doing all this crap, right?

263
00:08:38.860 –> 00:08:40.379
– So that in the future, I can, like,

264
00:08:40.379 –> 00:08:41.820
– be aware of it, and I can keep

265
00:08:41.820 –> 00:08:43.939
– tabs on him. So dates, locations, and then

266
00:08:43.980 –> 00:08:45.179
– and she wants to know who it’s with

267
00:08:45.179 –> 00:08:46.779
– and if you repeated it because, again, that

268
00:08:46.779 –> 00:08:49.179
– matters, right? If you were, you know, with

269
00:08:49.179 –> 00:08:52.154
– this woman weekly, that matters. It does matter

270
00:08:52.154 –> 00:08:53.995
– if you repeated it versus if it was

271
00:08:53.995 –> 00:08:55.754
– just a one time thing. Right? So asking

272
00:08:55.754 –> 00:08:57.754
– those questions are very fair. A lot of

273
00:08:57.754 –> 00:08:59.274
– guys think like, wow, that that’s a lot

274
00:08:59.274 –> 00:09:01.434
– of detail. No. Not not really because again,

275
00:09:01.434 –> 00:09:03.534
– that’s all of those things are around safety.

276
00:09:03.980 –> 00:09:06.220
– Unnecessary details would, yeah, would be like, yeah,

277
00:09:06.220 –> 00:09:07.339
– did you guys have sex here? Did you

278
00:09:07.339 –> 00:09:08.779
– guys have sex there? And and some of

279
00:09:08.779 –> 00:09:10.059
– those things are fair too. Right? Did you

280
00:09:10.059 –> 00:09:11.659
– do it in our in our bed, in

281
00:09:11.659 –> 00:09:13.980
– our bedroom? That’s a fair question. That is

282
00:09:13.980 –> 00:09:15.419
– a fair question. Right? Did you bring her

283
00:09:15.419 –> 00:09:17.595
– in our home? Right? Have our kids ever

284
00:09:17.595 –> 00:09:19.754
– seen her, right? Those are like, yes, those

285
00:09:19.754 –> 00:09:21.514
– are details, but those are fair details because

286
00:09:21.514 –> 00:09:22.735
– again, they’re all assessing

287
00:09:23.115 –> 00:09:25.195
– safety, right? And she has every right to

288
00:09:25.195 –> 00:09:26.795
– not like the idea that you slept with

289
00:09:26.795 –> 00:09:28.634
– somebody in your marital bed, right? That is

290
00:09:28.634 –> 00:09:30.910
– a very valid question. So that does not

291
00:09:30.910 –> 00:09:33.870
– classify as too much detail. Right? Those things

292
00:09:33.870 –> 00:09:35.790
– are just gauging how safe am I, when

293
00:09:35.790 –> 00:09:37.070
– and where did the heck did this did

294
00:09:37.070 –> 00:09:39.470
– this happen. Now again, there are details that

295
00:09:39.470 –> 00:09:41.629
– do not matter. Right? You know, what color

296
00:09:41.629 –> 00:09:43.149
– were their hair? What the you know, it’s

297
00:09:43.149 –> 00:09:44.522
– just it’s some of that detail is unnecessary

298
00:09:44.522 –> 00:09:44.571
– because it just doesn’t matter. Like, the knowing

299
00:09:44.571 –> 00:09:45.105
– her hair color is not

300
00:09:46.304 –> 00:09:48.704
– because it just doesn’t matter. Like the knowing

301
00:09:48.704 –> 00:09:49.824
– her hair color is not going to help

302
00:09:49.824 –> 00:09:52.625
– you become more safe. That’s an irrelevant detail.

303
00:09:52.625 –> 00:09:54.225
– There are exceptions to some of these things,

304
00:09:54.225 –> 00:09:56.625
– obviously, because we know with process addictions, some

305
00:09:56.625 –> 00:09:59.605
– guys have process addictions that are very particular.

306
00:10:00.120 –> 00:10:01.340
– So there may be

307
00:10:01.799 –> 00:10:04.039
– sometimes there actually may be some details that

308
00:10:04.039 –> 00:10:05.639
– do need to come forward because if you

309
00:10:05.639 –> 00:10:08.539
– have a very, very particular niched compulsive

310
00:10:08.919 –> 00:10:11.480
– issue, sometimes some of those details do need

311
00:10:11.480 –> 00:10:13.160
– to be exposed so that we can regain

312
00:10:13.160 –> 00:10:15.340
– safety. But remember, the whole goal is safety.

313
00:10:15.404 –> 00:10:17.404
– I need to understand if I’m gonna stay

314
00:10:17.404 –> 00:10:19.085
– with you, I need to understand how I

315
00:10:19.085 –> 00:10:20.285
– can wrap my head around how this is

316
00:10:20.285 –> 00:10:21.725
– gonna happen to me again, which is a

317
00:10:21.725 –> 00:10:24.285
– very fair question on her behalf. Now the

318
00:10:24.285 –> 00:10:27.425
– last question here, the dreaded one, polygraph polygraph

319
00:10:27.485 –> 00:10:30.879
– tests, lie detector tests. This one actually is

320
00:10:31.100 –> 00:10:33.420
– there is some split opinion on this. I

321
00:10:33.420 –> 00:10:34.879
– would say the most common

322
00:10:35.420 –> 00:10:38.059
– practice is that there is a polygraph and

323
00:10:38.059 –> 00:10:39.680
– it is done before disclosure,

324
00:10:40.220 –> 00:10:41.759
– before you read her the document

325
00:10:42.195 –> 00:10:45.415
– so that she knows that document is accurate.

326
00:10:45.634 –> 00:10:47.154
– The problem with doing it after is, let’s

327
00:10:47.154 –> 00:10:48.915
– say you failed the freaking thing because you

328
00:10:48.915 –> 00:10:51.795
– left out something. Well, now you just traumatized

329
00:10:51.795 –> 00:10:53.795
– her twice because you freaking lied again. Right?

330
00:10:53.795 –> 00:10:54.995
– And even if you were trying to be

331
00:10:54.995 –> 00:10:56.595
– honest, she’s gonna interpret it as a lie.

332
00:10:56.595 –> 00:10:58.799
– So get the polygraph done before that way

333
00:10:58.799 –> 00:11:00.360
– she can be verified and we won’t try

334
00:11:00.480 –> 00:11:02.000
– because if you’re failing, like, okay, crap. I

335
00:11:02.000 –> 00:11:03.679
– need to go through and add something here

336
00:11:03.679 –> 00:11:05.120
– and and do it again. But there is

337
00:11:05.120 –> 00:11:07.460
– one thing I wanna comment on with polygraphs

338
00:11:08.000 –> 00:11:10.455
– just to kinda keep people aware of this.

339
00:11:10.695 –> 00:11:11.595
– There is no

340
00:11:12.295 –> 00:11:12.795
– centralized

341
00:11:13.335 –> 00:11:13.835
– certification

342
00:11:14.215 –> 00:11:15.595
– process for polygraphers.

343
00:11:16.295 –> 00:11:18.054
– I could literally go down the street to

344
00:11:18.054 –> 00:11:20.695
– a garage sale and buy one from somebody,

345
00:11:20.695 –> 00:11:23.115
– and I could start doing polygraphs this evening.

346
00:11:23.370 –> 00:11:25.210
– Okay? And there’d be nothing stopping me from

347
00:11:25.210 –> 00:11:26.649
– doing that. Just getting a website, do it.

348
00:11:26.649 –> 00:11:29.049
– So we need to be careful because we

349
00:11:29.049 –> 00:11:30.570
– need to understand this person knows how to

350
00:11:30.570 –> 00:11:32.169
– use one. Well, the problem is because there’s

351
00:11:32.169 –> 00:11:34.669
– really no, you know, there’s no really formalized

352
00:11:34.889 –> 00:11:35.389
– certification

353
00:11:35.769 –> 00:11:36.669
– kind of standard.

354
00:11:37.014 –> 00:11:39.014
– It’s hard to know that. So typically your

355
00:11:39.014 –> 00:11:41.495
– CSATs are probably gonna know that’s usually where

356
00:11:41.495 –> 00:11:42.855
– I tell people to go is go talk

357
00:11:42.855 –> 00:11:45.174
– to your CSAT or call a CSAT. The

358
00:11:45.174 –> 00:11:47.995
– CSATs are gonna know where a good polygrapher

359
00:11:48.134 –> 00:11:49.909
– can be found because there’s a ton of

360
00:11:49.909 –> 00:11:51.909
– bad ones. I have heard I have heard

361
00:11:51.909 –> 00:11:54.470
– horror stories. There is this jerk off in

362
00:11:54.470 –> 00:11:57.269
– freaking Texas who I think everyone’s not using

363
00:11:57.269 –> 00:11:59.429
– him anymore. Thank goodness. He was really popular

364
00:11:59.429 –> 00:12:00.789
– for a while. He’s got a bunch of

365
00:12:00.789 –> 00:12:02.629
– podcasts out with different people and a lot

366
00:12:02.629 –> 00:12:05.174
– of reputable CSATs were using him. I saw

367
00:12:05.174 –> 00:12:07.035
– it from a mile away. The guy’s attitude,

368
00:12:07.095 –> 00:12:08.535
– I was like, this guy is not safe.

369
00:12:08.535 –> 00:12:09.815
– This guy this guy is on a freaking

370
00:12:09.815 –> 00:12:11.995
– witch hunt. And I appreciated

371
00:12:12.375 –> 00:12:13.274
– his efforts,

372
00:12:13.975 –> 00:12:15.414
– but there was a ton of questions that

373
00:12:15.414 –> 00:12:17.414
– he was asking that are ambiguous. They’re very

374
00:12:17.414 –> 00:12:19.519
– gray. A lot of stuff around like fantasy,

375
00:12:19.519 –> 00:12:21.679
– we cannot polygraph fantasy. No one knows what

376
00:12:21.679 –> 00:12:23.759
– a fantasy is. Everybody’s definition of a fantasy

377
00:12:23.759 –> 00:12:26.559
– is different. So we cannot polygraph fantasy that

378
00:12:26.559 –> 00:12:28.320
– is just inappropriate. It’s too gray, it’s too

379
00:12:28.320 –> 00:12:30.720
– murky and it was gonna flaw the accuracy

380
00:12:30.720 –> 00:12:32.274
– of the test, right? He was asked a

381
00:12:32.274 –> 00:12:35.014
– bunch of other questions that were just ambiguous,

382
00:12:35.235 –> 00:12:36.595
– which is just so unfair. I’m not gonna

383
00:12:36.595 –> 00:12:37.875
– say the guy’s name because I don’t like

384
00:12:37.875 –> 00:12:39.875
– talking about people, but it sounds like no

385
00:12:39.875 –> 00:12:42.035
– one’s really using him anymore, which is good.

386
00:12:42.035 –> 00:12:44.195
– I mean, a polygraph is simple. You create

387
00:12:44.195 –> 00:12:46.375
– the disclosure document with your CSAT.

388
00:12:46.720 –> 00:12:48.399
– That CSAT helps you make sure that it’s

389
00:12:48.399 –> 00:12:50.720
– full and complete, helps keeps you from screwing

390
00:12:50.720 –> 00:12:53.519
– it up. You take that document and the

391
00:12:53.519 –> 00:12:54.019
– polygrapher

392
00:12:54.399 –> 00:12:56.080
– asks you two questions. Now don’t quote me

393
00:12:56.080 –> 00:12:57.759
– on this because they might be different than

394
00:12:57.759 –> 00:12:59.440
– I’m saying, but basically they ask, to the

395
00:12:59.440 –> 00:13:01.705
– best of your knowledge, is this disclosure full

396
00:13:01.705 –> 00:13:03.544
– and complete? Yes or no? And then they

397
00:13:03.544 –> 00:13:05.304
– ask you a second question. Did you leave

398
00:13:05.304 –> 00:13:07.644
– anything out with the intent to deceive?

399
00:13:08.024 –> 00:13:10.424
– Yes or no? Two questions. Then they’re gonna

400
00:13:10.424 –> 00:13:11.785
– ask you those. I don’t know. I think

401
00:13:11.785 –> 00:13:13.225
– they they’re gonna ask you those six or

402
00:13:13.225 –> 00:13:14.904
– seven times just to kinda crunch their numbers

403
00:13:14.904 –> 00:13:16.799
– and and create data to make sure they’re

404
00:13:16.799 –> 00:13:19.200
– getting the best result. But that is it.

405
00:13:19.200 –> 00:13:20.960
– It is those two questions. It is not

406
00:13:20.960 –> 00:13:22.159
– you are not going in there and they’re

407
00:13:22.159 –> 00:13:24.320
– not asking you, did you or did you

408
00:13:24.320 –> 00:13:26.559
– not go to this hotel on this day?

409
00:13:26.559 –> 00:13:28.320
– Did you or did you not ever go

410
00:13:28.320 –> 00:13:29.745
– to the beach together? Did you go or

411
00:13:29.745 –> 00:13:31.745
– did you not ever hold hands together? That

412
00:13:31.745 –> 00:13:35.264
– is statistically how polygraphs become very, very, very

413
00:13:35.264 –> 00:13:35.764
– unreliable.

414
00:13:36.065 –> 00:13:37.584
– They need to be black and white, yes

415
00:13:37.584 –> 00:13:39.424
– or no questions, and the best way to

416
00:13:39.424 –> 00:13:41.125
– do that is saying this document,

417
00:13:41.649 –> 00:13:44.549
– did you and your CSAT do this completely

418
00:13:44.850 –> 00:13:47.169
– to the request of the agreed plan? And

419
00:13:47.169 –> 00:13:48.690
– then did you leave anything out with the

420
00:13:48.690 –> 00:13:50.929
– intent to deceive? But between those two questions,

421
00:13:50.929 –> 00:13:52.870
– we came with pretty high level of accuracy

422
00:13:53.330 –> 00:13:55.285
– and a safe level. Cause again this isn’t

423
00:13:55.285 –> 00:13:57.524
– just about getting the full and complete truth

424
00:13:57.524 –> 00:13:59.205
– out to your wife, this is also making

425
00:13:59.205 –> 00:14:00.725
– sure that you pass the freaking test and

426
00:14:00.725 –> 00:14:02.965
– that it’s fair because these things are not

427
00:14:02.965 –> 00:14:05.285
– perfect, right? They’re not perfect and so they

428
00:14:05.285 –> 00:14:06.899
– need to be done well. Now when they’re

429
00:14:06.899 –> 00:14:09.059
– done well, they actually have a pretty stinking

430
00:14:09.059 –> 00:14:10.579
– good level of accuracy, but they need to

431
00:14:10.579 –> 00:14:12.019
– be done well by a person who knows

432
00:14:12.019 –> 00:14:13.860
– what they’re doing and your CSATs are gonna

433
00:14:13.860 –> 00:14:16.419
– know who those reliable polygraphers are, but I

434
00:14:16.419 –> 00:14:18.100
– do wanna put that up there because every

435
00:14:18.100 –> 00:14:19.700
– year I have two or three clients who

436
00:14:19.700 –> 00:14:21.559
– see a horrible polygrapher,

437
00:14:22.384 –> 00:14:25.664
– horrible polygraph because there’s no certifications. They’ll they’ll

438
00:14:25.664 –> 00:14:27.585
– be in there judging you or having like

439
00:14:27.585 –> 00:14:29.664
– a freaking therapy session in there talking about,

440
00:14:29.664 –> 00:14:31.105
– oh, yeah. I’ve worked with guys like this

441
00:14:31.105 –> 00:14:33.424
– and that, like, that is so inappropriate. That

442
00:14:33.424 –> 00:14:35.745
– is incredibly inappropriate. It actually violates a good

443
00:14:35.745 –> 00:14:37.529
– polygraph. Right? I had a really great one

444
00:14:37.529 –> 00:14:39.289
– who did mine, and all we did was

445
00:14:39.289 –> 00:14:41.129
– talk about sports, and it is because the

446
00:14:41.129 –> 00:14:43.529
– whole goal is to make you calm before

447
00:14:43.529 –> 00:14:45.210
– they administer the test. Right? And I was

448
00:14:45.210 –> 00:14:46.410
– in there for, I don’t know, hour and

449
00:14:46.410 –> 00:14:48.250
– a half of just talking, having a nice,

450
00:14:48.250 –> 00:14:49.704
– you know, getting to know each other. And

451
00:14:49.704 –> 00:14:50.985
– then he’s like, alright. Let’s let’s let’s do

452
00:14:50.985 –> 00:14:52.584
– this thing. And then he showed me the

453
00:14:52.584 –> 00:14:54.985
– document that my CSAT sent him. Right? That

454
00:14:54.985 –> 00:14:57.144
– way I couldn’t tamper with it. And, asked

455
00:14:57.144 –> 00:14:58.504
– me the two questions, asked me them six

456
00:14:58.504 –> 00:15:00.424
– times, and that was it. So I do

457
00:15:00.424 –> 00:15:01.784
– like to say that because that is, you

458
00:15:01.784 –> 00:15:03.269
– know, a lot of the betrayed partners think

459
00:15:03.269 –> 00:15:05.462
– they’re gonna be able to just like send

460
00:15:05.462 –> 00:15:07.655
– send this list of a bajillion questions and,

461
00:15:07.929 –> 00:15:10.122
– no, for multiple reasons. But the main one

462
00:15:10.122 –> 00:15:12.315
– being, that’s not how they work. You can’t

463
00:15:12.315 –> 00:15:14.507
– write questions. They’re hard to make accurate and

464
00:15:14.507 –> 00:15:16.974
– then and the only way to make them

465
00:15:16.974 –> 00:15:19.064
– accurate is if a trained player for somebody

466
00:15:19.064 –> 00:15:20.584
– who knows what they’re trained, I say trained

467
00:15:20.584 –> 00:15:22.105
– like there’s a freaking training, but somebody who

468
00:15:22.105 –> 00:15:24.024
– knows what they’re doing writes the question so

469
00:15:24.024 –> 00:15:25.544
– there’s no ambiguity and no gray. And the

470
00:15:25.544 –> 00:15:28.024
– problem is betray partners like those questions just

471
00:15:28.024 –> 00:15:30.105
– are not well written. There’s a lot of

472
00:15:30.105 –> 00:15:32.024
– problems in the wording there and you can’t

473
00:15:32.024 –> 00:15:33.704
– ask such questions. That’s just not how it

474
00:15:33.704 –> 00:15:35.860
– works. It’s two questions. It’s on the accuracy

475
00:15:35.860 –> 00:15:36.679
– and the completeness

476
00:15:36.980 –> 00:15:39.940
– of the disclosure document. So again, to wrap

477
00:15:39.940 –> 00:15:41.059
– all this up, why why did I do

478
00:15:41.059 –> 00:15:43.220
– this episode? It’s in your best interest. It

479
00:15:43.220 –> 00:15:45.300
– is you guys. It’s the best thing that

480
00:15:45.300 –> 00:15:47.620
– we have to make sure that they know

481
00:15:47.620 –> 00:15:48.120
– everything.

482
00:15:48.424 –> 00:15:50.184
– And yes, it’s traumatic for you. And yes,

483
00:15:50.184 –> 00:15:52.504
– it’s insanely traumatic for her. And it’s just

484
00:15:52.504 –> 00:15:54.664
– not fun for anybody. It’s painful to watch

485
00:15:54.664 –> 00:15:56.345
– as a therapist. It’s just hard. It’s hard

486
00:15:56.345 –> 00:15:58.424
– all around for everybody and it sucks. But

487
00:15:58.424 –> 00:16:00.345
– at the same time, what sucks more is

488
00:16:00.345 –> 00:16:02.284
– her wondering if she knows everything

489
00:16:02.840 –> 00:16:05.879
– and having your marital healing basically frozen in

490
00:16:05.879 –> 00:16:08.360
– time and unable to move past because she

491
00:16:08.360 –> 00:16:10.600
– doesn’t necessarily know for sure that there’s not

492
00:16:10.600 –> 00:16:12.840
– more. Okay? So that’s why we do them.

493
00:16:12.840 –> 00:16:14.279
– Again, I’m not a huge fan of them,

494
00:16:14.279 –> 00:16:15.894
– but I did one and at this and

495
00:16:15.894 –> 00:16:17.735
– this time until we have some advancements in

496
00:16:17.735 –> 00:16:20.294
– technology, I think they’re necessary. I really do.

497
00:16:20.294 –> 00:16:22.375
– And I advocate for them depending. Now another

498
00:16:22.375 –> 00:16:23.815
– thing I wanna say is if your wife

499
00:16:23.815 –> 00:16:25.894
– doesn’t want one, don’t get one and do

500
00:16:25.894 –> 00:16:27.274
– not let your therapist

501
00:16:27.870 –> 00:16:30.429
– gaslight you into freaking getting one. That’s none

502
00:16:30.429 –> 00:16:32.750
– of their freaking business. If your wife doesn’t

503
00:16:32.750 –> 00:16:34.669
– want one, don’t do one. And if your

504
00:16:34.669 –> 00:16:36.269
– wife doesn’t want a polygraph, don’t do a

505
00:16:36.269 –> 00:16:36.769
– polygraph.

506
00:16:37.309 –> 00:16:38.750
– Right? Again, this is, you know, if she

507
00:16:38.750 –> 00:16:40.429
– doesn’t see value in it, I would still

508
00:16:40.429 –> 00:16:42.830
– encourage you to do this disclosure document with

509
00:16:42.830 –> 00:16:44.565
– your therapist even if you’re not gonna read

510
00:16:44.565 –> 00:16:45.684
– it to your wife because it’s really good

511
00:16:45.684 –> 00:16:47.924
– for you to see everything that you did

512
00:16:47.924 –> 00:16:49.365
– and all the details of it. It’s a

513
00:16:49.365 –> 00:16:51.605
– great process for us to, like, really face

514
00:16:51.605 –> 00:16:53.924
– everything that we’ve done. It’s really helpful. It’s

515
00:16:53.924 –> 00:16:55.625
– really eye opening. It’s like, oh my gosh.

516
00:16:55.970 –> 00:16:57.730
– Can’t believe all this. Right? So it’s still

517
00:16:57.730 –> 00:17:00.049
– a worthwhile exercise, but, yeah, don’t let your

518
00:17:00.049 –> 00:17:02.610
– therapeutic team force your wife to get one.

519
00:17:02.610 –> 00:17:04.529
– That’s inappropriate. And if she doesn’t want one,

520
00:17:04.529 –> 00:17:05.809
– if she doesn’t want and if she’s like,

521
00:17:05.809 –> 00:17:07.250
– I don’t need a polygraph, then don’t get

522
00:17:07.329 –> 00:17:08.845
– then you don’t need to get them. Do

523
00:17:08.845 –> 00:17:10.525
– not let people force you to do it.

524
00:17:10.525 –> 00:17:12.765
– It’s only necessary if it’s necessary. But again,

525
00:17:12.765 –> 00:17:14.045
– for the guys, I would encourage all of

526
00:17:14.045 –> 00:17:15.085
– you guys to go ahead and go through

527
00:17:15.085 –> 00:17:16.845
– the process. It’s very eye opening, and it’s

528
00:17:16.845 –> 00:17:18.045
– kind of a slap in the face, kinda

529
00:17:18.045 –> 00:17:19.485
– like a wake up call, if you will.

530
00:17:19.485 –> 00:17:20.525
– Oh, there was one other thing I was

531
00:17:20.525 –> 00:17:23.119
– gonna add. When it comes to partners making

532
00:17:23.119 –> 00:17:23.940
– this request,

533
00:17:24.240 –> 00:17:26.400
– again, guys, they’re just trying to become safe.

534
00:17:26.400 –> 00:17:28.240
– And the fact of the matter is the

535
00:17:28.240 –> 00:17:30.259
– cat’s out of the back. Okay? There’s podcasts

536
00:17:30.319 –> 00:17:32.259
– like this podcast all over the Internet

537
00:17:32.640 –> 00:17:33.460
– about disclosure

538
00:17:34.005 –> 00:17:36.164
– and polygraph, and they’re gonna find out about

539
00:17:36.164 –> 00:17:37.765
– them and they’re gonna want one. So I

540
00:17:37.765 –> 00:17:40.664
– would encourage all of you guys to initiate

541
00:17:40.884 –> 00:17:43.365
– this process rather than having them find out

542
00:17:43.365 –> 00:17:45.445
– about it and them initiate it. Because again,

543
00:17:45.445 –> 00:17:47.045
– that’s this more like, hey. He was hoping

544
00:17:47.045 –> 00:17:48.484
– to get away with this stuff. Whereas if

545
00:17:48.484 –> 00:17:50.460
– you can say, hey. There’s this full therapeutic

546
00:17:51.000 –> 00:17:52.940
– disclosure process. I would like to do it

547
00:17:53.000 –> 00:17:54.440
– if you would find it helpful. If it’s

548
00:17:54.440 –> 00:17:55.480
– not helpful, then we don’t have to do

549
00:17:55.480 –> 00:17:56.519
– it. But if you would like to find

550
00:17:56.519 –> 00:17:58.599
– it helpful, I want to give you the

551
00:17:58.599 –> 00:18:00.519
– confidence and peace of mind that you know

552
00:18:00.519 –> 00:18:02.679
– everything that happened in this marriage because you

553
00:18:02.679 –> 00:18:04.944
– deserve that. Right? I I encourage all of

554
00:18:04.944 –> 00:18:06.544
– you guys to be the ones to bring

555
00:18:06.544 –> 00:18:08.224
– this up rather than her bringing it up.

556
00:18:08.224 –> 00:18:09.744
– Because, again, when they have to keep bringing

557
00:18:09.744 –> 00:18:11.744
– this stuff up, you know, to them, they’re

558
00:18:11.744 –> 00:18:13.265
– thinking, man, this guy was trying to get

559
00:18:13.265 –> 00:18:15.505
– away with everything. Right? It’s always nice if

560
00:18:15.505 –> 00:18:17.424
– we can take initiative and show that we’re

561
00:18:17.424 –> 00:18:20.119
– trying to be honest. Okay? So if you

562
00:18:20.119 –> 00:18:21.559
– guys have any any questions on this, you’re

563
00:18:21.559 –> 00:18:24.940
– welcome to email me, Roland@successfuladdict.com.

564
00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:26.680
– This is a very gnarly process, but, yeah,

565
00:18:26.680 –> 00:18:28.299
– you can email me any kind of recommendations.

566
00:18:28.759 –> 00:18:30.299
– They do have disclosure intensives

567
00:18:30.644 –> 00:18:32.325
– where you guys can actually fly to a

568
00:18:32.325 –> 00:18:34.644
– place and do the disclosure. You know, you

569
00:18:34.644 –> 00:18:36.085
– fly there for, I don’t know, five days

570
00:18:36.085 –> 00:18:37.285
– or week or something like that, and you

571
00:18:37.285 –> 00:18:38.964
– actually, like, do you know, there’s some pre

572
00:18:38.964 –> 00:18:40.325
– work that’s done, but you actually do the

573
00:18:40.325 –> 00:18:42.005
– disclosure there. It’s done right. I have I

574
00:18:42.005 –> 00:18:44.399
– have some trusted friends who I really trust

575
00:18:44.399 –> 00:18:46.319
– to do a disclosure well, so if you

576
00:18:46.319 –> 00:18:48.480
– guys wanna know that. I’ve also seen a

577
00:18:48.480 –> 00:18:51.359
– ton of disclosures gone horribly wrong, way too

578
00:18:51.359 –> 00:18:53.679
– many of them, way, way, way too many

579
00:18:53.679 –> 00:18:55.359
– of them. I would say, yeah, I would

580
00:18:55.359 –> 00:18:57.679
– say twenty percent of them are done really

581
00:18:57.679 –> 00:18:59.855
– poorly, really, really, really poorly. Oh, that was

582
00:18:59.855 –> 00:19:01.654
– the last thing I wanna say. Why do

583
00:19:01.654 –> 00:19:02.394
– it therapeutically?

584
00:19:03.015 –> 00:19:05.335
– Why not do a what we call a

585
00:19:05.335 –> 00:19:07.894
– backyard disclosure? Why not just tell her everything?

586
00:19:07.894 –> 00:19:10.295
– Because you’re gonna forget stuff. You’re gonna say

587
00:19:10.295 –> 00:19:12.234
– stuff. You’re gonna say stuff

588
00:19:12.599 –> 00:19:14.679
– in a way that’s not necessarily accurate, not

589
00:19:14.679 –> 00:19:16.679
– not on purpose, but just by accident. Yeah.

590
00:19:16.679 –> 00:19:18.539
– You’re gonna leave something out by accident.

591
00:19:18.920 –> 00:19:20.679
– She’s gonna ask you a question. It might

592
00:19:20.679 –> 00:19:21.960
– not even be your fault. She might ask

593
00:19:21.960 –> 00:19:23.880
– you the question just wrong, and then you’re

594
00:19:23.880 –> 00:19:24.973
– gonna answer honestly, but it was it was

595
00:19:24.973 –> 00:19:25.660
– incomplete because it wasn’t

596
00:19:33.294 –> 00:19:35.534
– what you’re freaking doing, and you’re probably gonna

597
00:19:35.534 –> 00:19:37.454
– have another one and then another little mini

598
00:19:37.454 –> 00:19:39.054
– one and another little mini one, and then

599
00:19:39.054 –> 00:19:40.575
– she’s gonna find out something that you didn’t

600
00:19:40.575 –> 00:19:42.759
– say, and that’s what we call trickle truth.

601
00:19:42.819 –> 00:19:44.900
– That’s what we call multiple disclosures. That is

602
00:19:44.900 –> 00:19:46.099
– the worst way to do it because then

603
00:19:46.099 –> 00:19:46.980
– she’s gonna be like, oh my gosh, I

604
00:19:46.980 –> 00:19:49.220
– can’t I can’t freaking trust this guy. The

605
00:19:49.220 –> 00:19:50.500
– best way to do it, if you wanna

606
00:19:50.500 –> 00:19:52.099
– stay married and save your marriage, the best

607
00:19:52.099 –> 00:19:53.380
– way to do it is do it all

608
00:19:53.380 –> 00:19:55.565
– at once. Do it right there. Do it

609
00:19:55.565 –> 00:19:57.884
– therapeutically. She has a CSAT. You have a

610
00:19:57.884 –> 00:19:59.884
– CSAT. You might even have a third CSAT,

611
00:19:59.884 –> 00:20:02.205
– a couple CSAT. All three of those CSATs

612
00:20:02.205 –> 00:20:04.465
– are there. You guys go into the office.

613
00:20:04.525 –> 00:20:06.144
– You read her the disclosure.

614
00:20:06.445 –> 00:20:08.845
– She listens. The therapy team’s there for support

615
00:20:08.845 –> 00:20:10.889
– for the process. And then you guys either

616
00:20:10.889 –> 00:20:13.049
– go home together or go to a hotel

617
00:20:13.049 –> 00:20:14.649
– and she goes home and you, you know,

618
00:20:14.649 –> 00:20:15.849
– stay there for a day or two and

619
00:20:15.849 –> 00:20:17.069
– then come back, etcetera.

620
00:20:17.369 –> 00:20:19.149
– But you wanna do it therapeutically

621
00:20:19.690 –> 00:20:22.649
– because it’s very medical. It’s very official. It’s

622
00:20:22.649 –> 00:20:25.375
– very complete. It’s a very safe, concise,

623
00:20:25.914 –> 00:20:27.934
– protected way for her getting the information

624
00:20:28.554 –> 00:20:31.034
– without having anything done wrong, without having anything

625
00:20:31.034 –> 00:20:33.674
– any worded incorrectly. It also is a protection

626
00:20:33.674 –> 00:20:35.914
– for you guys because she can lose her

627
00:20:35.914 –> 00:20:38.230
– freaking mind through this process. I mean, when

628
00:20:38.230 –> 00:20:39.829
– hearing all this information, she’s not gonna be

629
00:20:39.829 –> 00:20:41.669
– thinking straight. And so do you really wanna

630
00:20:41.669 –> 00:20:43.669
– be reading her all of this stuff when

631
00:20:43.669 –> 00:20:45.990
– she’s losing her marbles, right? Because of everything

632
00:20:45.990 –> 00:20:48.309
– that you’ve freaking done and how you just

633
00:20:48.309 –> 00:20:50.630
– wrecked the family and the marriage? No, that’s

634
00:20:50.630 –> 00:20:52.424
– not great either. So do it in a

635
00:20:52.424 –> 00:20:55.144
– therapist’s office, please. Please, please, please. I can

636
00:20:55.144 –> 00:20:56.825
– promise you out of all the guys in

637
00:20:56.825 –> 00:20:59.005
– my groups who have done a backyard disclosure

638
00:20:59.224 –> 00:21:00.984
– on their own without a therapist present, they

639
00:21:00.984 –> 00:21:02.424
– all regret it. Every single one of them

640
00:21:02.424 –> 00:21:04.265
– regrets it and it has the potential to

641
00:21:04.265 –> 00:21:06.284
– significantly delay your marital healing.

642
00:21:06.640 –> 00:21:08.880
– Right? So do it therapeutically if you can’t.

643
00:21:08.880 –> 00:21:10.720
– Please trust me on that one. You won’t

644
00:21:10.720 –> 00:21:13.039
– regret it. So, again, any questions on disclosure?

645
00:21:13.039 –> 00:21:15.200
– It’s a it’s a very sensitive thing. There’s

646
00:21:15.200 –> 00:21:16.799
– a lot of concerns about it on both

647
00:21:16.799 –> 00:21:18.319
– sides. So if you guys have any questions

648
00:21:18.319 –> 00:21:19.845
– about that, you’re welcome to reach out to

649
00:21:19.845 –> 00:21:21.204
– me, and I can kind of introduce you

650
00:21:21.204 –> 00:21:22.884
– to some of my colleagues who, I trust

651
00:21:22.884 –> 00:21:23.625
– to do it well.

652
00:21:24.805 –> 00:21:26.964
– Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

653
00:21:26.964 –> 00:21:28.724
– are a high achiever with a sex addiction

654
00:21:28.724 –> 00:21:30.484
– and you’re looking for a recovery group full

655
00:21:30.484 –> 00:21:33.569
– of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

656
00:21:33.569 –> 00:21:36.390
– We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

657
00:21:36.450 –> 00:21:37.670
– using four day retreats,

658
00:21:38.049 –> 00:21:40.789
– weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

659
00:21:40.849 –> 00:21:43.009
– If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

660
00:21:43.009 –> 00:21:44.930
– save your marriage, go to our website and

661
00:21:44.930 –> 00:21:47.250
– fill out our application. If you enjoyed this

662
00:21:47.250 –> 00:21:49.544
– episode, please pass it along to a friend

663
00:21:49.544 –> 00:21:51.384
– in recovery who would benefit from listening. It

664
00:21:51.384 –> 00:21:53.224
– is my mission to get this information out

665
00:21:53.224 –> 00:21:55.625
– to as many high achievers as possible, and

666
00:21:55.625 –> 00:21:57.244
– I can’t do it without your help.