1
00:00:00,560 –> 00:00:02,159
You act out what you don’t work out.

2
00:00:02,159 –> 00:00:03,919
And so if you go about trying to

3
00:00:03,919 –> 00:00:06,559
pretend that you’re not highly sensitive, then you’re

4
00:00:06,559 –> 00:00:08,880
gonna have to act that out some way

5
00:00:08,880 –> 00:00:11,359
because there’s gonna be some type of energy

6
00:00:11,359 –> 00:00:12,960
that takes place as a result of that

7
00:00:12,960 –> 00:00:15,824
collision. When you accept these things that are

8
00:00:15,824 –> 00:00:18,484
true of yourself, then you can take appropriate

9
00:00:18,785 –> 00:00:21,984
steps to deal with the strengths and the

10
00:00:21,984 –> 00:00:22,484
weaknesses.

11
00:00:22,864 –> 00:00:25,585
When you don’t accept though, then you actually

12
00:00:25,585 –> 00:00:28,119
don’t have steps that you can take. And

13
00:00:28,119 –> 00:00:31,079
so you’re left with not doing things that

14
00:00:31,079 –> 00:00:32,780
you totally could have done.

15
00:00:35,079 –> 00:00:37,179
You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

16
00:00:37,239 –> 00:00:40,460
for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

17
00:00:40,840 –> 00:00:43,414
This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

18
00:00:43,414 –> 00:00:46,695
recovery principles specifically to the mindset of the

19
00:00:46,695 –> 00:00:49,734
high achiever. I’m your host, Roland Cochran, founder

20
00:00:49,734 –> 00:00:51,895
of The Successful Addict, a recovery group for

21
00:00:51,895 –> 00:00:54,215
high achieving men struggling with sex and porn

22
00:00:54,215 –> 00:00:56,695
addiction. For more information about joining our group

23
00:00:56,695 –> 00:00:59,570
or attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

24
00:01:00,429 –> 00:01:02,530
And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

25
00:01:04,750 –> 00:01:06,349
Have you ever heard of the term highly

26
00:01:06,349 –> 00:01:07,950
sensitive person? Well, a lot of men hear

27
00:01:07,950 –> 00:01:09,310
this and they think, oh, that’s not me.

28
00:01:09,310 –> 00:01:10,989
I’m not highly sensitive. Like, it’s a bad

29
00:01:10,989 –> 00:01:13,155
thing. But thirty percent of the population is

30
00:01:13,155 –> 00:01:13,894
highly sensitive.

31
00:01:14,194 –> 00:01:16,515
And here’s the crazy part, ninety eight percent

32
00:01:16,515 –> 00:01:19,075
of high net worth men are highly sensitive

33
00:01:19,075 –> 00:01:21,555
people. It’s not this curse. It’s actually in

34
00:01:21,555 –> 00:01:22,854
many ways a gift.

35
00:01:23,155 –> 00:01:25,715
But it can also affect you negatively in

36
00:01:25,715 –> 00:01:27,539
your recovery. So if you are highly sensitive,

37
00:01:27,539 –> 00:01:29,060
I’d recommend you listen to this episode to

38
00:01:29,060 –> 00:01:30,899
figure out, hey, is this something I need

39
00:01:30,899 –> 00:01:33,560
to integrate to go the distance and maintain

40
00:01:33,700 –> 00:01:34,679
long term sobriety?

41
00:01:35,219 –> 00:01:37,780
You guys, what a killer topic today. This

42
00:01:37,780 –> 00:01:39,459
one’s close to home for me and actually

43
00:01:39,459 –> 00:01:41,879
most of the clients in my program.

44
00:01:42,344 –> 00:01:43,085
Highly sensitive

45
00:01:43,465 –> 00:01:45,945
people, highly sensitive men. It’s funny, it’s one

46
00:01:45,945 –> 00:01:47,305
of those things that actually when I started

47
00:01:47,305 –> 00:01:49,245
diving into it, there’s a ton of literature

48
00:01:49,465 –> 00:01:51,545
around it. But I would say before I

49
00:01:51,545 –> 00:01:53,625
went looking into it, I didn’t know much

50
00:01:53,625 –> 00:01:55,145
about it. This was not something that was

51
00:01:55,145 –> 00:01:57,079
presented to me. I think the thing that

52
00:01:57,079 –> 00:01:59,420
I wanna start with at first is

53
00:01:59,799 –> 00:02:01,640
I didn’t like the title. When I read

54
00:02:01,640 –> 00:02:03,340
the book and it was like,

55
00:02:03,719 –> 00:02:06,280
crap. I’m like, I met every criteria in

56
00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:08,280
there. And I’m like, I don’t wanna be

57
00:02:08,280 –> 00:02:10,465
a a highly sensitive person, which was which

58
00:02:10,465 –> 00:02:12,305
was really sad because as the book went

59
00:02:12,305 –> 00:02:13,664
on and the book I was referring to

60
00:02:13,664 –> 00:02:15,824
is Elaine Arons. She kinda was the one

61
00:02:15,824 –> 00:02:18,384
who pioneered this whole concept of highly sensitive

62
00:02:18,384 –> 00:02:20,224
people. But when I read the book, there

63
00:02:20,224 –> 00:02:22,224
was actually a lot of superpowers that a

64
00:02:22,224 –> 00:02:24,900
highly sensitive person has. And so then, by

65
00:02:24,900 –> 00:02:26,180
the time I finished the book, I felt

66
00:02:26,180 –> 00:02:28,500
very ashamed of being ashamed in the beginning

67
00:02:28,500 –> 00:02:29,860
of the book because it was like, man,

68
00:02:29,860 –> 00:02:31,860
you know what, how long have I been

69
00:02:31,860 –> 00:02:33,800
running away from my sensitivity

70
00:02:34,180 –> 00:02:36,020
which we’ll talk more about that later because

71
00:02:36,020 –> 00:02:37,620
I would love actually to get into that.

72
00:02:37,620 –> 00:02:40,074
But Mike, do you wanna introduce Mike and

73
00:02:40,074 –> 00:02:41,594
then Jason? You can go after if there’s

74
00:02:41,594 –> 00:02:43,674
anything Mike missed. But what is a highly

75
00:02:43,674 –> 00:02:46,735
sensitive person and why should we care? Yeah.

76
00:02:46,794 –> 00:02:48,634
And I can so relate to what you’re

77
00:02:48,634 –> 00:02:50,555
talking about. Even, like and Jason and I

78
00:02:50,555 –> 00:02:52,590
have had this experience in talking to people.

79
00:02:52,669 –> 00:02:54,189
I’ll speak for Jason. I’ll do that the

80
00:02:54,189 –> 00:02:56,030
whole time, by the way. But both of

81
00:02:56,030 –> 00:02:57,569
us, you know, we’re both

82
00:02:57,870 –> 00:02:58,769
highly sensitive.

83
00:02:59,069 –> 00:02:59,569
And

84
00:03:00,349 –> 00:03:02,349
knowing all that we know about it and

85
00:03:02,349 –> 00:03:04,769
how, actually, how great it really is,

86
00:03:05,145 –> 00:03:06,504
I know what you’re saying, Roland, because I

87
00:03:06,504 –> 00:03:08,104
still feel that twin just like,

88
00:03:08,745 –> 00:03:11,145
you know, should I say this? So being

89
00:03:11,145 –> 00:03:13,305
highly sensitive, I think we’re leading with the

90
00:03:13,305 –> 00:03:15,465
most important thing, which is it it is

91
00:03:15,465 –> 00:03:17,544
not a flaw. It is not a character

92
00:03:17,544 –> 00:03:19,084
flaw. It is not a problem

93
00:03:19,384 –> 00:03:20,205
to be solved.

94
00:03:20,669 –> 00:03:22,930
I think it’s something to be understood

95
00:03:23,629 –> 00:03:25,549
because you live in the world a little

96
00:03:25,549 –> 00:03:27,629
bit differently when you’re highly sensitive than those

97
00:03:27,629 –> 00:03:29,549
who are kind of not as much that

98
00:03:29,549 –> 00:03:31,549
way. And it doesn’t mean any of us

99
00:03:31,549 –> 00:03:33,310
don’t fall a little bit on that spectrum.

100
00:03:33,310 –> 00:03:36,125
But if you really truly fall in the

101
00:03:36,125 –> 00:03:38,685
probably what is fifteen to twenty percent of

102
00:03:38,685 –> 00:03:40,705
the population that are highly sensitive,

103
00:03:41,085 –> 00:03:42,685
what that means is that there are some

104
00:03:42,685 –> 00:03:44,284
things that are true of you that are

105
00:03:44,284 –> 00:03:46,944
just not as true of people who aren’t.

106
00:03:47,120 –> 00:03:49,280
And Elaine, Erin, I’m sure you’ve seen this,

107
00:03:49,280 –> 00:03:51,919
Roland. She has an acronym as a way

108
00:03:51,919 –> 00:03:53,680
to describe it. So I’ll just I can

109
00:03:53,680 –> 00:03:55,519
go through those and I can leave them

110
00:03:55,519 –> 00:03:57,439
half and Jason can do half. But the

111
00:03:57,439 –> 00:03:59,199
first is the depth of processing. Right? So

112
00:03:59,199 –> 00:04:00,799
the acronym is d o e s, and

113
00:04:00,799 –> 00:04:02,514
then there’s one more s that we say

114
00:04:02,514 –> 00:04:03,254
at the end.

115
00:04:03,555 –> 00:04:05,155
But the depth of processing, which just means

116
00:04:05,155 –> 00:04:07,574
that as you’re going about in your world,

117
00:04:07,715 –> 00:04:10,674
you’re processing things on a deeper level than

118
00:04:10,674 –> 00:04:13,495
those maybe who don’t fall into the category.

119
00:04:13,955 –> 00:04:16,214
What I mean by that is generally speaking,

120
00:04:17,160 –> 00:04:19,480
everything that you come in contact with, you

121
00:04:19,480 –> 00:04:21,720
have all these multiple layers with which you

122
00:04:21,720 –> 00:04:23,720
kind of experience it and think about it.

123
00:04:23,720 –> 00:04:25,819
And people who are not highly sensitive,

124
00:04:26,520 –> 00:04:29,080
they don’t as often as much. Like, it

125
00:04:29,080 –> 00:04:30,680
doesn’t mean that they don’t do that, but

126
00:04:30,680 –> 00:04:32,714
they don’t do it as broadly as those

127
00:04:32,714 –> 00:04:33,455
who are.

128
00:04:33,834 –> 00:04:35,834
And that’s really an incredible thing. It just

129
00:04:35,834 –> 00:04:37,915
also means though that there’s more data and

130
00:04:37,915 –> 00:04:40,154
more information to sift and sort through. Right?

131
00:04:40,154 –> 00:04:42,074
Because, like, instead of it being this, it’s

132
00:04:42,074 –> 00:04:44,629
this with everything that you experience. So depth

133
00:04:44,629 –> 00:04:46,870
of processing is one. The next one is

134
00:04:46,870 –> 00:04:48,389
the one I think that we probably I

135
00:04:48,389 –> 00:04:49,910
wanna speak to that one too because I

136
00:04:49,910 –> 00:04:51,669
think this is where most of my clients

137
00:04:51,669 –> 00:04:54,069
really resonated was, you know, when you call

138
00:04:54,069 –> 00:04:56,470
them highly sensitive, I think all men, especially

139
00:04:56,470 –> 00:04:59,514
successful men, reject the title. It’s it’s they

140
00:04:59,514 –> 00:05:01,675
don’t enjoy being called that. Here’s how I

141
00:05:01,675 –> 00:05:04,314
get them all to basically admit that they’re

142
00:05:04,314 –> 00:05:06,474
highly sensitive. Is that is that first point,

143
00:05:06,474 –> 00:05:07,294
Mike, is

144
00:05:07,675 –> 00:05:10,154
it’s not that you’re highly because Elaine speaks

145
00:05:10,154 –> 00:05:11,675
to this. She says, you know, when you

146
00:05:11,675 –> 00:05:13,995
look at these people’s nervous systems, they actually

147
00:05:13,995 –> 00:05:15,910
don’t have, you know, there’s not really any

148
00:05:15,910 –> 00:05:16,410
markers

149
00:05:16,790 –> 00:05:18,470
that are that much different than a normal

150
00:05:18,470 –> 00:05:20,710
person. What we find is we think too

151
00:05:20,710 –> 00:05:22,629
much about shit. So if somebody was to

152
00:05:22,629 –> 00:05:25,930
criticize you, you may think about it for

153
00:05:26,069 –> 00:05:29,285
six days, seven days, a month, maybe even

154
00:05:29,285 –> 00:05:31,444
for the rest of your life constantly being

155
00:05:31,444 –> 00:05:33,444
conscientious of this. Yeah. So I think I

156
00:05:33,444 –> 00:05:35,204
just wanted to put a pin in that.

157
00:05:35,204 –> 00:05:36,964
You know, when you hear this, she’s not

158
00:05:36,964 –> 00:05:38,644
really referring to you as being a sissy,

159
00:05:38,644 –> 00:05:40,644
a weenie. That’s not what we’re talking about.

160
00:05:40,644 –> 00:05:42,949
That you can’t that you even feel more

161
00:05:42,949 –> 00:05:44,790
necessarily than other people. I mean, you know,

162
00:05:44,790 –> 00:05:46,389
we’ll talk more about that, but a lot

163
00:05:46,389 –> 00:05:47,689
of it is this

164
00:05:48,149 –> 00:05:50,730
I’m super sensitive. So I’m getting this feedback,

165
00:05:51,029 –> 00:05:53,370
this negative feedback, and I’m potentially

166
00:05:53,670 –> 00:05:56,285
processing it 20 times more than the average

167
00:05:56,285 –> 00:05:58,764
person, applying it to my physical appearance, my

168
00:05:58,764 –> 00:06:00,845
my future safety, maybe applying it to some

169
00:06:00,845 –> 00:06:02,225
of the things I’ve done in the past.

170
00:06:02,365 –> 00:06:04,845
It’s just this exaggerated processing. So I I

171
00:06:04,845 –> 00:06:06,125
just wanted to put that pin in there

172
00:06:06,125 –> 00:06:07,404
because a lot of guys hear that and

173
00:06:07,404 –> 00:06:09,644
they’re like, okay. Shoot. Maybe I am a

174
00:06:09,644 –> 00:06:11,589
little bit more sensible. What I would add

175
00:06:11,589 –> 00:06:12,870
to that, and then I wanna kick it

176
00:06:12,870 –> 00:06:14,329
to Jason, is really

177
00:06:14,790 –> 00:06:18,310
so many high achieving people are also high

178
00:06:18,310 –> 00:06:18,810
sensing

179
00:06:19,189 –> 00:06:21,670
because that same depth of processing, when you

180
00:06:21,670 –> 00:06:23,589
apply that to business, when you apply that

181
00:06:23,589 –> 00:06:25,930
to relationships, like, when you apply that places,

182
00:06:26,764 –> 00:06:29,725
it brings a certain richness and depth, right,

183
00:06:29,725 –> 00:06:30,464
to relationships,

184
00:06:30,764 –> 00:06:32,845
whether they be business, whether they be personal,

185
00:06:32,845 –> 00:06:35,564
whatever they might be. And so it really

186
00:06:35,564 –> 00:06:36,625
adds a lot

187
00:06:36,925 –> 00:06:38,384
to life, and that’s where

188
00:06:38,939 –> 00:06:39,379
being

189
00:06:39,819 –> 00:06:40,960
even though we don’t

190
00:06:41,340 –> 00:06:44,460
love the title being in this category, it

191
00:06:44,460 –> 00:06:46,800
actually can that depth of processing can produce

192
00:06:46,860 –> 00:06:49,340
such amazing things and really creates a lot

193
00:06:49,340 –> 00:06:51,995
of high achievement, honestly. Mhmm. Yeah. I would

194
00:06:51,995 –> 00:06:54,235
say absolutely to that. And, yeah, I mean,

195
00:06:54,235 –> 00:06:55,835
I know everyone wrestles with the title. You

196
00:06:55,835 –> 00:06:57,274
know, we had a run of T shirts.

197
00:06:57,274 –> 00:06:59,435
They didn’t sell well, so we decided we

198
00:06:59,435 –> 00:07:01,115
had to do something different. But at the

199
00:07:01,115 –> 00:07:02,714
end of the day, it’s more true than

200
00:07:02,714 –> 00:07:04,495
not. And I think like Mike said,

201
00:07:04,795 –> 00:07:06,555
this is often the hallmark of a high

202
00:07:06,555 –> 00:07:08,689
achiever because they can go deep and they

203
00:07:08,689 –> 00:07:10,770
can fixate and they can really work through

204
00:07:10,770 –> 00:07:12,770
something. And I think used in the right

205
00:07:12,770 –> 00:07:14,150
direction, it’s a superpower.

206
00:07:14,689 –> 00:07:16,550
But if it’s used against oneself,

207
00:07:17,250 –> 00:07:18,529
I think what we end up doing is

208
00:07:18,529 –> 00:07:20,629
we generalize individual experiences

209
00:07:21,250 –> 00:07:22,389
into something bigger

210
00:07:22,714 –> 00:07:24,555
and into something about our worth and our

211
00:07:24,555 –> 00:07:26,814
value, and that’s where it’s highly problematic.

212
00:07:27,355 –> 00:07:28,654
Jason, it’s why I think

213
00:07:29,035 –> 00:07:30,955
you so many high achieving men are so

214
00:07:30,955 –> 00:07:33,514
effed up is I think for the first

215
00:07:33,514 –> 00:07:36,254
eighteen years of their life, they thought way

216
00:07:36,314 –> 00:07:37,375
too much about

217
00:07:37,949 –> 00:07:39,870
what anybody ever said to them. I mean,

218
00:07:39,870 –> 00:07:42,050
they just I find them so insecure

219
00:07:42,589 –> 00:07:44,750
because again, I think so much of this

220
00:07:44,750 –> 00:07:46,669
processing in a world where we don’t do

221
00:07:46,669 –> 00:07:49,629
a great job of helping kids process, right?

222
00:07:49,629 –> 00:07:51,789
Like, we don’t ask them what somebody said

223
00:07:51,789 –> 00:07:53,415
to them. We don’t ask them, you know,

224
00:07:53,654 –> 00:07:55,995
historically, we haven’t done a great job of

225
00:07:56,134 –> 00:07:57,814
getting these kids to really come home and

226
00:07:57,814 –> 00:08:00,795
process the data that was entering their day.

227
00:08:00,855 –> 00:08:02,855
Right? So think about this. This poor, highly

228
00:08:02,855 –> 00:08:04,555
sensitive boy is internalizing

229
00:08:05,415 –> 00:08:06,955
insane amounts of data.

230
00:08:07,379 –> 00:08:08,740
Most of which I would say, you know,

231
00:08:08,740 –> 00:08:10,920
I’ll speak for myself, I used against me.

232
00:08:10,980 –> 00:08:12,819
I would say 90% of the data I

233
00:08:12,819 –> 00:08:16,100
used in a don’t do that again, never

234
00:08:16,100 –> 00:08:18,259
say that again, don’t ever raise your hand

235
00:08:18,259 –> 00:08:20,100
and bring you know, it was used against

236
00:08:20,100 –> 00:08:21,944
me. I don’t remember much in the first

237
00:08:21,944 –> 00:08:23,305
eighteen years of my life where I used

238
00:08:23,305 –> 00:08:24,204
it productively.

239
00:08:24,904 –> 00:08:26,925
I I would be curious maybe talking about

240
00:08:27,064 –> 00:08:28,745
what we could do for the parents listening

241
00:08:28,745 –> 00:08:30,764
to this. How do you productively?

242
00:08:31,225 –> 00:08:32,825
But maybe we can save that towards the

243
00:08:32,825 –> 00:08:35,404
end. Elaine Aaron does have her mentee,

244
00:08:36,059 –> 00:08:37,660
Tim, can’t remember his last name, writes a

245
00:08:37,660 –> 00:08:39,820
book called The Highly Sensitive Boy, and it

246
00:08:39,820 –> 00:08:41,660
is actually targeted a little bit more towards

247
00:08:41,660 –> 00:08:43,179
parents. What I actually found was it was

248
00:08:43,179 –> 00:08:45,179
kinda cool to reparent myself listening to that

249
00:08:45,179 –> 00:08:46,860
too because there’s a bunch of things that

250
00:08:46,860 –> 00:08:48,764
I didn’t get done that should have been

251
00:08:48,764 –> 00:08:50,605
done for me as as being highly sensitive.

252
00:08:50,605 –> 00:08:51,804
But sorry sorry. I didn’t mean to cut

253
00:08:51,804 –> 00:08:53,644
you off there, Jason. No. No. I mean,

254
00:08:53,644 –> 00:08:55,164
I’m in agreement, and I think it’s a

255
00:08:55,164 –> 00:08:56,845
bit of an art to know how deep

256
00:08:56,845 –> 00:08:59,004
we’re supposed to dive. I don’t think you

257
00:08:59,004 –> 00:09:00,764
just know that inherently. You have to be

258
00:09:00,764 –> 00:09:03,490
taught. And so if you’re not taught, it’s

259
00:09:03,490 –> 00:09:05,490
really, really difficult. It’s kinda like when I

260
00:09:05,490 –> 00:09:07,250
go get a haircut and they take the

261
00:09:07,250 –> 00:09:09,889
clipper guard off. I hope they understand the

262
00:09:09,889 –> 00:09:12,210
art of using that well. Right? Because because

263
00:09:12,210 –> 00:09:13,889
there’s such a thing as not enough and

264
00:09:13,889 –> 00:09:15,889
then there’s too much and then there’s exactly

265
00:09:15,889 –> 00:09:17,649
right. But I I think that’s kinda what

266
00:09:17,649 –> 00:09:19,865
we’re getting at is, like, that depth of

267
00:09:19,865 –> 00:09:20,365
processing,

268
00:09:20,985 –> 00:09:22,904
we have to be guided through how to

269
00:09:22,904 –> 00:09:24,904
do that well. And if you’re struggling with

270
00:09:24,904 –> 00:09:26,665
this, you just always go a little too

271
00:09:26,665 –> 00:09:28,985
deep. Mhmm. Right? It’s just always deeper than

272
00:09:28,985 –> 00:09:30,825
it needs to be. Yeah. Mike, take us

273
00:09:30,825 –> 00:09:32,264
onto the what was the second one we

274
00:09:32,264 –> 00:09:34,480
were gonna go down? Yeah. The second one

275
00:09:34,480 –> 00:09:37,360
is, I think, probably the one that, at

276
00:09:37,360 –> 00:09:40,100
least for me personally, requires the most ongoing

277
00:09:40,159 –> 00:09:41,539
work, and that is overstimulation.

278
00:09:42,639 –> 00:09:45,200
So what that means then is the things

279
00:09:45,200 –> 00:09:46,899
that we take in from our environment,

280
00:09:47,285 –> 00:09:48,264
they have the capability

281
00:09:49,045 –> 00:09:52,165
to more quickly overstimulate our nervous system than

282
00:09:52,165 –> 00:09:54,004
maybe those who are kind of less on

283
00:09:54,004 –> 00:09:56,725
that sensitivity scale. I always think of the

284
00:09:56,725 –> 00:09:58,644
sharks. Right? So if you know anything about

285
00:09:58,644 –> 00:10:01,000
sharks, they’re swimming around, and they’re picking up,

286
00:10:01,000 –> 00:10:03,399
like, the electrical currents from prey and from

287
00:10:03,399 –> 00:10:05,960
things in the water. And for highly sensitive

288
00:10:05,960 –> 00:10:08,360
people, we’re kinda like that. We’re walking around

289
00:10:08,360 –> 00:10:10,440
and we’re picking up all this information, and

290
00:10:10,440 –> 00:10:12,039
we may not even it doesn’t even mean

291
00:10:12,039 –> 00:10:13,799
that we’re processing everything that we’re picking up

292
00:10:13,799 –> 00:10:14,894
on a conscious level,

293
00:10:15,375 –> 00:10:17,375
you know, but we’re noticing that quick twitch

294
00:10:17,375 –> 00:10:19,054
of that person’s face and, like, what did

295
00:10:19,054 –> 00:10:19,634
that mean?

296
00:10:20,014 –> 00:10:22,835
Not only that, but sounds and and everything

297
00:10:22,894 –> 00:10:25,855
can become too much really quickly. And so

298
00:10:25,855 –> 00:10:27,615
that nerve you know, our nervous system just

299
00:10:27,615 –> 00:10:29,370
gets all of a sudden just boom. Like,

300
00:10:29,450 –> 00:10:30,889
it fills up to the top and starts

301
00:10:30,889 –> 00:10:32,730
to spill over. And then, you know, we

302
00:10:32,730 –> 00:10:34,089
do different things with it. And what we’re

303
00:10:34,089 –> 00:10:35,529
gonna actually, I know, talk about a little

304
00:10:35,529 –> 00:10:37,370
bit later is how we medicate against that.

305
00:10:37,370 –> 00:10:39,049
And unhealthy ways, we’ll talk about what that

306
00:10:39,049 –> 00:10:40,669
looks like in healthy ways. But overstimulation

307
00:10:41,705 –> 00:10:44,665
is one of those hallmarks of this that

308
00:10:44,665 –> 00:10:46,745
I think is super important for people to

309
00:10:46,745 –> 00:10:48,605
understand. Because if you don’t know

310
00:10:48,904 –> 00:10:50,764
that you’re highly sensitive, you probably

311
00:10:51,144 –> 00:10:53,065
you may not have an explanation for, well,

312
00:10:53,065 –> 00:10:54,184
gosh. Why? When I get up in the

313
00:10:54,184 –> 00:10:55,625
morning and I just kinda walk out and,

314
00:10:55,625 –> 00:10:56,985
you know, there’s a lot going on, why

315
00:10:56,985 –> 00:10:59,360
does that feel overwhelming sometimes to me? Right?

316
00:10:59,360 –> 00:11:01,200
Because it really for those who aren’t in

317
00:11:01,200 –> 00:11:01,940
this category,

318
00:11:02,399 –> 00:11:04,639
it takes longer for them to get to

319
00:11:04,639 –> 00:11:06,639
that place. For us, it’s a much shorter

320
00:11:06,639 –> 00:11:07,139
process.

321
00:11:07,519 –> 00:11:09,779
And that’s what I’ve had to learn even

322
00:11:09,919 –> 00:11:12,424
well into adulthood about myself is what do

323
00:11:12,424 –> 00:11:14,345
I need to do with that? So that’s

324
00:11:14,345 –> 00:11:16,424
the o part. And I think this is

325
00:11:16,424 –> 00:11:18,024
where, you know, when we look at sex

326
00:11:18,024 –> 00:11:20,424
addiction, porn addiction, I think where this kinda

327
00:11:20,424 –> 00:11:22,345
starts on this point of kind of overwhelm

328
00:11:22,345 –> 00:11:24,584
and over processing is we get lost in

329
00:11:24,584 –> 00:11:27,259
thought. And I think it happens very early

330
00:11:27,559 –> 00:11:29,320
and for me at least, I mean, shoot,

331
00:11:29,320 –> 00:11:31,240
I remember it being like seven or eight

332
00:11:31,240 –> 00:11:33,980
years old and already being lost in thought.

333
00:11:34,120 –> 00:11:36,120
Very unpleasant. And I think it just kinda

334
00:11:36,120 –> 00:11:38,125
got worse and worse and worse. Being highly

335
00:11:38,125 –> 00:11:40,524
sensitive too, I think there’s this over processing

336
00:11:40,524 –> 00:11:42,065
that can lead to an abandonment

337
00:11:42,445 –> 00:11:44,365
of self. I don’t like how I am.

338
00:11:44,365 –> 00:11:45,804
I don’t like who I am. I wanna

339
00:11:45,804 –> 00:11:47,964
be better. I wanna be different. And my

340
00:11:47,964 –> 00:11:51,039
mind became consumed with how do I be

341
00:11:51,039 –> 00:11:52,639
better? How do I be different? How do

342
00:11:52,639 –> 00:11:54,959
I get attention, approval? And so, yeah. By

343
00:11:54,959 –> 00:11:56,559
the time I’m 12, I’m lost in thought.

344
00:11:56,559 –> 00:11:58,480
I’m not present. I’ve used most of it

345
00:11:58,480 –> 00:12:00,879
against me. Right? So now, you know, how

346
00:12:00,879 –> 00:12:02,879
much am I actually living my life for

347
00:12:02,879 –> 00:12:04,639
me with my morals and values when I’m

348
00:12:04,639 –> 00:12:07,514
just lost in thought? I’m truly just grabbing

349
00:12:07,514 –> 00:12:09,675
anything and everything that comes. And so to

350
00:12:09,675 –> 00:12:11,115
me, when I’m when I’m watching a lot

351
00:12:11,115 –> 00:12:13,054
of the clients that come into my program,

352
00:12:13,434 –> 00:12:15,274
especially ones that I feel like are definitely

353
00:12:15,274 –> 00:12:17,915
higher on the highly sensitive spectrum, they are.

354
00:12:17,915 –> 00:12:19,754
They’re they’re so lost in thought. They are

355
00:12:19,754 –> 00:12:21,440
desperate. They are desperate

356
00:12:22,059 –> 00:12:25,019
for attention. They’re desperate for approval, and their

357
00:12:25,019 –> 00:12:28,460
high sensitivity is just grabbing, grasping, grabbing, grasping.

358
00:12:28,460 –> 00:12:31,100
They’re just not their brain’s not slow enough

359
00:12:31,100 –> 00:12:32,700
to make, in my opinion, to make a

360
00:12:32,700 –> 00:12:34,625
good decision. And so I think you find

361
00:12:34,625 –> 00:12:36,485
you find a lot of high achieving men

362
00:12:36,945 –> 00:12:39,204
acting very impulsively, compulsively,

363
00:12:39,504 –> 00:12:40,004
desperately

364
00:12:40,544 –> 00:12:41,524
with just this

365
00:12:41,904 –> 00:12:44,065
overwhelming amount of data. And I think here’s

366
00:12:44,065 –> 00:12:45,745
the missing piece, maybe we’ll talk about this

367
00:12:45,745 –> 00:12:48,610
later, but to me, where things finally shifted

368
00:12:48,610 –> 00:12:50,769
for me, I’m still highly sensitive. I’m not

369
00:12:50,769 –> 00:12:52,450
trying to kill it off. I I do

370
00:12:52,450 –> 00:12:53,429
think it’s a superpower.

371
00:12:53,889 –> 00:12:55,809
What finally changed for me, you guys, and

372
00:12:55,809 –> 00:12:57,649
I would actually like to talk about this,

373
00:12:57,649 –> 00:12:58,549
is context.

374
00:12:59,214 –> 00:13:01,875
When I finally formed a relationship with myself,

375
00:13:01,934 –> 00:13:04,335
understood what was actually going on with me,

376
00:13:04,335 –> 00:13:05,794
now the processing,

377
00:13:06,335 –> 00:13:08,034
I had context, I had a direction,

378
00:13:08,495 –> 00:13:10,414
I had something to use it for, to

379
00:13:10,414 –> 00:13:12,639
use it with. So I’m grabbing all this

380
00:13:12,639 –> 00:13:14,240
data and I was able to channel it

381
00:13:14,240 –> 00:13:16,480
somewhere. Whereas I feel like before I was

382
00:13:16,480 –> 00:13:16,980
30,

383
00:13:17,440 –> 00:13:19,920
it was just so freaking compulsive. It was

384
00:13:19,920 –> 00:13:20,980
just too much information.

385
00:13:21,360 –> 00:13:23,040
Oh, she’s hot. I’m gonna go fuck her.

386
00:13:23,040 –> 00:13:24,800
Right? And just not, you know, not even

387
00:13:24,800 –> 00:13:27,404
thinking about anything else. Just so desperate. I

388
00:13:27,404 –> 00:13:28,605
would love to speak on that because that

389
00:13:28,605 –> 00:13:30,125
was when it shifted for me. I’m still

390
00:13:30,125 –> 00:13:31,804
highly sensitive. It’s just when I get the

391
00:13:31,804 –> 00:13:34,144
data, I feel like I have a reason

392
00:13:34,365 –> 00:13:36,445
to process it. I know I know what

393
00:13:36,445 –> 00:13:38,044
to do with it. Does that make sense?

394
00:13:38,044 –> 00:13:40,144
Right? I’ve I’ve tapped into my unique abilities.

395
00:13:40,365 –> 00:13:42,044
I know where I’m headed. I have a

396
00:13:42,044 –> 00:13:44,259
good feeling as to my purpose, my calling,

397
00:13:44,259 –> 00:13:46,360
why I’m here. And so now the data

398
00:13:46,419 –> 00:13:47,399
is not overwhelming.

399
00:13:47,940 –> 00:13:49,399
The data is usable.

400
00:13:49,940 –> 00:13:51,620
The journey you’re really talking about is learning

401
00:13:51,620 –> 00:13:53,459
your own signal. So kinda like Mike talked

402
00:13:53,459 –> 00:13:56,120
about, if you’re always hearing a 100 signals,

403
00:13:56,434 –> 00:13:58,355
but you don’t know your own, it’s very

404
00:13:58,355 –> 00:14:00,914
confusing. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And so the growth

405
00:14:00,914 –> 00:14:03,315
is what is my signal in the midst

406
00:14:03,315 –> 00:14:05,154
of all these other signals so I know

407
00:14:05,154 –> 00:14:06,834
which one to listen to? And I think

408
00:14:06,834 –> 00:14:08,434
if we don’t learn how to do that,

409
00:14:08,434 –> 00:14:10,214
we just chase other signals.

410
00:14:10,910 –> 00:14:13,389
Doing that costs us a lot because a

411
00:14:13,389 –> 00:14:15,170
lot of times, it’s coping

412
00:14:15,550 –> 00:14:18,350
or it’s making poor decisions or it’s doing

413
00:14:18,350 –> 00:14:20,430
things that are against what we would do

414
00:14:20,430 –> 00:14:22,529
normally, but there’s somebody else’s signal.

415
00:14:22,910 –> 00:14:24,750
I think to your point, Roland, as you

416
00:14:24,750 –> 00:14:27,444
learn your signal, amongst all the other signals,

417
00:14:27,444 –> 00:14:29,204
it gets a lot easier, but you have

418
00:14:29,204 –> 00:14:31,125
to do that first. So let’s park on

419
00:14:31,125 –> 00:14:32,024
that though because

420
00:14:32,404 –> 00:14:34,004
high achieving and again, this is my opinion.

421
00:14:34,004 –> 00:14:35,365
I don’t have any data to back this,

422
00:14:35,365 –> 00:14:37,204
but I think high achieving men are

423
00:14:37,860 –> 00:14:40,440
I think they are they have a desire

424
00:14:40,500 –> 00:14:42,820
and a unique ability to influence, to lead,

425
00:14:42,820 –> 00:14:45,620
to change something, to find something’s broken and

426
00:14:45,620 –> 00:14:47,299
fix it. It’s just it’s just, like, inherent.

427
00:14:47,299 –> 00:14:49,399
You see them just gravitate towards

428
00:14:50,225 –> 00:14:53,105
people, tribes, places that are solving problems, whether

429
00:14:53,105 –> 00:14:55,345
they’re solving independently or joining an industry that’s

430
00:14:55,345 –> 00:14:57,345
solving something. So but keep keep this in

431
00:14:57,345 –> 00:14:58,805
mind. Right? So you’re highly sensitive

432
00:14:59,264 –> 00:15:01,445
and you’re in a country that

433
00:15:01,904 –> 00:15:03,559
society that has this overemphasis

434
00:15:03,940 –> 00:15:04,759
on materialism,

435
00:15:05,139 –> 00:15:06,120
power, domination,

436
00:15:06,420 –> 00:15:09,059
success, becoming 1% better every day. I mean,

437
00:15:09,059 –> 00:15:10,899
you grab your Instagram and it is just

438
00:15:10,899 –> 00:15:13,540
basically you suck unless you get this, this,

439
00:15:13,540 –> 00:15:14,899
this, this and this. So imagine as a

440
00:15:14,899 –> 00:15:17,565
highly sensitive man, right? I’ve now grown up.

441
00:15:17,884 –> 00:15:19,904
I’ve used most of my highly sensitivity

442
00:15:20,284 –> 00:15:23,105
against me, destroying my sense of self, abandoning

443
00:15:23,164 –> 00:15:26,125
myself, wanting to be something better, greater, more

444
00:15:26,125 –> 00:15:28,445
confident, more polished, whatever it is. And now,

445
00:15:28,445 –> 00:15:30,044
I’m in this world that is telling me

446
00:15:30,044 –> 00:15:33,490
and reminding me basically daily, every commercial, every

447
00:15:33,490 –> 00:15:36,610
Instagram post, the non stop reminders of what

448
00:15:36,610 –> 00:15:38,289
I am not and what I don’t have.

449
00:15:38,289 –> 00:15:39,649
So I just I wanna, you know, I

450
00:15:39,649 –> 00:15:41,509
think I think that’s the challenge is

451
00:15:41,889 –> 00:15:43,730
I have to fight to stay in line

452
00:15:43,730 –> 00:15:46,450
with my signal while literally in a in

453
00:15:46,450 –> 00:15:49,464
a crazy busy chaotic world where I’m getting

454
00:15:49,464 –> 00:15:52,105
1,000 signals. And one one thing I wanna

455
00:15:52,105 –> 00:15:54,824
just add, all those signals I just wanna

456
00:15:54,824 –> 00:15:55,324
empathize.

457
00:15:55,784 –> 00:15:58,024
All those signals work. I just I just

458
00:15:58,024 –> 00:16:00,309
wanna empathize. Like, they’re saying, hey, go get

459
00:16:00,309 –> 00:16:02,470
this and doors will open for you, and

460
00:16:02,470 –> 00:16:04,710
they do. Like, when I got money, doors

461
00:16:04,710 –> 00:16:06,629
opened for me. I was treated differently. People

462
00:16:06,629 –> 00:16:08,549
talked to me differently. I was included to

463
00:16:08,549 –> 00:16:10,070
things. I was invited to stuff that I

464
00:16:10,070 –> 00:16:11,590
never was invited to when I was broke.

465
00:16:11,590 –> 00:16:12,950
Right? So I think that’s, I think, the

466
00:16:12,950 –> 00:16:15,205
hard part is I I just wanna empathize

467
00:16:15,205 –> 00:16:16,804
with some of the highly sensitive men out

468
00:16:16,804 –> 00:16:18,804
there because a lot of the data, while

469
00:16:18,804 –> 00:16:21,044
it is other people’s signals, it does in

470
00:16:21,044 –> 00:16:21,705
our culture

471
00:16:22,164 –> 00:16:25,164
open doors and create opportunities. And and so

472
00:16:25,164 –> 00:16:26,404
I think I think I would just wanna

473
00:16:26,404 –> 00:16:28,670
empathize there as, like, how hard it is

474
00:16:28,670 –> 00:16:30,670
to stay true to your signal as a

475
00:16:30,670 –> 00:16:33,309
highly sensitive person when so many people are

476
00:16:33,309 –> 00:16:36,370
telling you to follow other signals. Mike,

477
00:16:36,670 –> 00:16:38,509
is that can you kinda speak to the

478
00:16:38,750 –> 00:16:40,110
Yeah. And what I I think I would

479
00:16:40,110 –> 00:16:41,309
add to that, I know from my own

480
00:16:41,309 –> 00:16:43,055
personal experience, but I think this is true

481
00:16:43,055 –> 00:16:44,815
especially of a lot of highly sensitive men,

482
00:16:44,815 –> 00:16:46,415
but it can be true of women as

483
00:16:46,415 –> 00:16:48,014
well, is that, like, one of our core

484
00:16:48,014 –> 00:16:50,175
wounds often is I’m not enough. Right? Like,

485
00:16:50,175 –> 00:16:52,335
I don’t measure up. That’s kinda what you’re

486
00:16:52,335 –> 00:16:54,175
saying, Roland, but just in a different way

487
00:16:54,175 –> 00:16:56,190
is, like, I’m not good enough. Because I

488
00:16:56,190 –> 00:16:58,350
think when you’re going through the world as

489
00:16:58,350 –> 00:16:59,649
a highly sensitive person,

490
00:17:00,110 –> 00:17:03,330
frankly, in a world that doesn’t always necessarily,

491
00:17:03,389 –> 00:17:05,710
especially for men, value that in the same

492
00:17:05,710 –> 00:17:07,950
way that it exists and manifests in our

493
00:17:07,950 –> 00:17:10,029
lives, then I think it can be very

494
00:17:10,029 –> 00:17:10,529
easy

495
00:17:11,164 –> 00:17:13,085
to turn that on yourself and say, so

496
00:17:13,085 –> 00:17:14,224
there must be something

497
00:17:15,005 –> 00:17:17,484
there’s something wrong with me. Right? Because clearly,

498
00:17:17,484 –> 00:17:19,565
the feedback I’m getting is I need to

499
00:17:19,565 –> 00:17:21,244
stop crying about this or I need to

500
00:17:21,244 –> 00:17:22,284
do this or I need to do that.

501
00:17:22,284 –> 00:17:22,784
And

502
00:17:23,179 –> 00:17:25,099
some of those things are just typical things

503
00:17:25,099 –> 00:17:27,179
of being highly sensitive. And I know for

504
00:17:27,179 –> 00:17:29,099
me, the way I internalized that was that

505
00:17:29,099 –> 00:17:30,779
I wasn’t good enough. Like, I don’t measure

506
00:17:30,779 –> 00:17:31,900
up. And I think for a lot of

507
00:17:31,900 –> 00:17:33,179
men number one, I think for a lot

508
00:17:33,179 –> 00:17:35,115
of men, that’s a core wound anyway. But

509
00:17:35,194 –> 00:17:36,714
I think for a lot of highly sensitive

510
00:17:36,714 –> 00:17:39,454
men, that’s especially one of their core wounds.

511
00:17:39,914 –> 00:17:42,474
And so I think we are inclined to

512
00:17:42,474 –> 00:17:44,394
to turn those things around. But like Jason’s

513
00:17:44,394 –> 00:17:47,115
talking about, once you understand this about yourself,

514
00:17:47,115 –> 00:17:48,575
once you then can isolate

515
00:17:49,029 –> 00:17:51,269
what your signal is and can come to

516
00:17:51,269 –> 00:17:54,410
appreciate then that it’s not actually about competence.

517
00:17:54,470 –> 00:17:56,250
It’s not about, like, your core wounds.

518
00:17:56,789 –> 00:17:58,789
In fact, like we started with, it’s really

519
00:17:58,789 –> 00:18:01,029
this really, really great thing that you can

520
00:18:01,029 –> 00:18:02,650
move about in the world with,

521
00:18:02,954 –> 00:18:05,994
then that’s when everything starts to turn. And

522
00:18:05,994 –> 00:18:08,414
for me, that’s been a very recent experience

523
00:18:08,474 –> 00:18:10,575
of that. I’ve I’ve spent so many years

524
00:18:11,115 –> 00:18:12,414
wondering why

525
00:18:12,875 –> 00:18:15,835
this thing made me emotional or that thing

526
00:18:15,835 –> 00:18:16,335
did.

527
00:18:16,759 –> 00:18:18,759
And really, I’ll say this part really quickly,

528
00:18:18,759 –> 00:18:21,880
but it wasn’t until a conversation with Jason

529
00:18:21,880 –> 00:18:23,320
when I was saying to him, gosh, you

530
00:18:23,320 –> 00:18:25,160
know, sometimes I’m just driving down the road

531
00:18:25,160 –> 00:18:27,000
and I just cry about something and I

532
00:18:27,000 –> 00:18:28,680
don’t need there must be you know, as

533
00:18:28,680 –> 00:18:30,759
a therapist, you’re always thinking, well, what trauma

534
00:18:30,759 –> 00:18:32,474
have I not solved yet? Right? Like, what

535
00:18:32,474 –> 00:18:34,234
more intensives do I need to do? And

536
00:18:34,234 –> 00:18:36,154
those are all good things. And Jason said

537
00:18:36,154 –> 00:18:37,755
these life changing things to me. I know

538
00:18:37,755 –> 00:18:39,515
you heard this, Roland, but he said, what

539
00:18:39,515 –> 00:18:41,275
if nothing is wrong with you? Like, what

540
00:18:41,275 –> 00:18:43,295
if this isn’t a problem? Mhmm.

541
00:18:44,339 –> 00:18:46,339
And even in recounting that now, it’s like,

542
00:18:46,339 –> 00:18:48,259
what? It it blows your mind. And so

543
00:18:48,259 –> 00:18:49,940
I wanna give what Jason gave to me

544
00:18:49,940 –> 00:18:52,119
to everybody, which is, well, what if though

545
00:18:52,500 –> 00:18:54,759
nothing is wrong with you in this sense?

546
00:18:54,819 –> 00:18:57,059
What if this is actually something that can

547
00:18:57,059 –> 00:18:59,474
truly be a strength? I know for me,

548
00:18:59,474 –> 00:19:00,775
I spent a lot of years

549
00:19:01,474 –> 00:19:04,355
believing something was wrong with me. And listen,

550
00:19:04,355 –> 00:19:05,555
there are plenty of things wrong with me,

551
00:19:05,555 –> 00:19:07,394
but this is not what we’re talking about.

552
00:19:07,394 –> 00:19:08,994
What you said, Mike, is my it’s one

553
00:19:08,994 –> 00:19:10,295
of my kind of beefs

554
00:19:10,914 –> 00:19:13,700
with therapy in the psychology world is I

555
00:19:13,700 –> 00:19:16,419
feel like sometimes there’s this, like, norm we’re

556
00:19:16,419 –> 00:19:18,899
trying to get everybody to. And I don’t

557
00:19:18,899 –> 00:19:20,419
think they mean to do it. It’s certainly

558
00:19:20,419 –> 00:19:22,099
not. We’re not you know, we want everybody

559
00:19:22,099 –> 00:19:24,019
to be them. But I do feel like,

560
00:19:24,019 –> 00:19:25,399
you know, sometimes we demonize

561
00:19:25,779 –> 00:19:26,279
or

562
00:19:26,605 –> 00:19:27,105
pathologize

563
00:19:28,125 –> 00:19:28,625
something

564
00:19:29,085 –> 00:19:30,704
about someone because

565
00:19:31,565 –> 00:19:33,424
it doesn’t mesh well with

566
00:19:33,804 –> 00:19:35,884
the way we’ve built this place. And I

567
00:19:35,884 –> 00:19:37,964
think that always bothers me is the thing

568
00:19:37,964 –> 00:19:39,730
that bothers me most about that is we

569
00:19:39,730 –> 00:19:41,329
didn’t build this place very well. We didn’t

570
00:19:41,329 –> 00:19:43,169
build this place for happiness. That’s why we

571
00:19:43,169 –> 00:19:44,690
don’t see a lot of happy people. We

572
00:19:44,690 –> 00:19:47,169
built this place to exchange currency and collect

573
00:19:47,169 –> 00:19:49,329
a portion of people’s currency to be able

574
00:19:49,329 –> 00:19:51,984
to pave roads. But again, why do they

575
00:19:51,984 –> 00:19:53,345
pave roads? Why do we have cops? Why

576
00:19:53,345 –> 00:19:55,345
do we have police officers? So that you

577
00:19:55,345 –> 00:19:57,184
can put that fire out and get your

578
00:19:57,184 –> 00:19:58,384
ass to work the next day. I mean,

579
00:19:58,384 –> 00:20:00,464
we we we built this place so that

580
00:20:00,464 –> 00:20:02,304
people can get to work, make money, and

581
00:20:02,304 –> 00:20:03,825
we can take a portion of their revenue.

582
00:20:03,825 –> 00:20:05,740
It’s just that’s what this place is built

583
00:20:05,740 –> 00:20:08,059
for. And so my point always is we

584
00:20:08,059 –> 00:20:09,679
have to be careful, I think, pathologizing

585
00:20:10,380 –> 00:20:12,799
people’s uniqueness. You know, calling somebody,

586
00:20:13,179 –> 00:20:15,359
saying, oh, that that’s an that’s an inappropriate

587
00:20:15,420 –> 00:20:17,019
response. How do you know? You know, how

588
00:20:17,019 –> 00:20:18,779
do you know? You know, may maybe he’s

589
00:20:18,779 –> 00:20:21,424
supposed to be respond maybe somebody’s gotta respond

590
00:20:21,424 –> 00:20:23,105
to that because if it’s a messed up

591
00:20:23,105 –> 00:20:25,345
thing, maybe if enough people are bothered by

592
00:20:25,345 –> 00:20:27,265
it, then they change it. They fix it.

593
00:20:27,265 –> 00:20:29,105
Right? So I think, Mike, that’s one thing

594
00:20:29,105 –> 00:20:30,785
I really notice when I look at people,

595
00:20:30,785 –> 00:20:33,345
even like bipolar and different things. I often

596
00:20:33,345 –> 00:20:33,845
wonder,

597
00:20:34,190 –> 00:20:35,809
do we just not see the utility

598
00:20:36,109 –> 00:20:38,910
in these things, right? Because these people process

599
00:20:38,910 –> 00:20:41,630
information and they say things, create things, do

600
00:20:41,630 –> 00:20:43,869
things that maybe other people wouldn’t. And so

601
00:20:43,869 –> 00:20:45,009
I do I think sometimes

602
00:20:45,869 –> 00:20:48,429
we pathologize something when we don’t really understand

603
00:20:48,429 –> 00:20:50,565
the utility of the uniqueness of this individual,

604
00:20:50,565 –> 00:20:52,404
and then we medicate them and force them

605
00:20:52,404 –> 00:20:54,325
to be normal. But I often wonder, you

606
00:20:54,325 –> 00:20:55,765
know, I see this in this exhibition space

607
00:20:55,765 –> 00:20:57,524
all the time. I think the way this

608
00:20:57,524 –> 00:20:59,365
world was built, I think there are men’s

609
00:20:59,365 –> 00:21:00,184
whose biology

610
00:21:00,884 –> 00:21:03,570
just gets trapped in this sexualness

611
00:21:04,190 –> 00:21:05,950
of all of this crap that’s going on.

612
00:21:05,950 –> 00:21:07,390
And I don’t I don’t think they mean

613
00:21:07,390 –> 00:21:10,269
to. I think just their genetic makeup, the

614
00:21:10,269 –> 00:21:12,509
way sex is just kind of used in

615
00:21:12,509 –> 00:21:14,830
our culture, it just messes with these men

616
00:21:14,830 –> 00:21:16,785
more. And I think for my guys, I

617
00:21:16,865 –> 00:21:18,144
I think the thing I see the most

618
00:21:18,144 –> 00:21:18,644
is

619
00:21:19,105 –> 00:21:21,684
they find a lot of value in the

620
00:21:21,825 –> 00:21:25,105
attention and validation from women. And there’s a

621
00:21:25,105 –> 00:21:27,585
lot of processing around that. It’s usually the

622
00:21:27,585 –> 00:21:29,505
hardest thing for them to let go in

623
00:21:29,505 –> 00:21:30,724
their recovery is

624
00:21:31,210 –> 00:21:33,690
how do I stop finding this so valuable,

625
00:21:33,690 –> 00:21:35,330
right? Because they all do. They’re just they

626
00:21:35,450 –> 00:21:36,730
they’re like, oh my gosh. You mean to

627
00:21:36,730 –> 00:21:38,009
tell me I’m not gonna be able to

628
00:21:38,009 –> 00:21:39,610
get all these women to tell me these

629
00:21:39,610 –> 00:21:41,930
things anymore? And they really are worried about

630
00:21:41,930 –> 00:21:43,450
it. But I do I think that’s the

631
00:21:43,450 –> 00:21:45,595
challenge is they’ve I think they need a

632
00:21:45,595 –> 00:21:47,934
lot of that and our world just overemphasizes

633
00:21:48,394 –> 00:21:51,115
the value of that attention and admiration over

634
00:21:51,115 –> 00:21:52,875
more than others. So again, I think we

635
00:21:52,875 –> 00:21:55,835
pathologize it. When I wonder if their biology

636
00:21:55,835 –> 00:21:58,240
was actually working just fine, we just messed

637
00:21:58,240 –> 00:22:01,140
them up because we have this overemphasis on

638
00:22:01,519 –> 00:22:03,440
the attention from females. Right? But if we

639
00:22:03,440 –> 00:22:05,119
never taught them that it was that valuable,

640
00:22:05,119 –> 00:22:06,880
would have they they have latched onto it?

641
00:22:06,880 –> 00:22:08,720
That’s the thing I always wonder is how

642
00:22:08,720 –> 00:22:10,654
much of this is the guy being a

643
00:22:10,654 –> 00:22:12,734
pervert sicko and how much of this is

644
00:22:12,734 –> 00:22:15,474
the guy actually doing life well

645
00:22:15,775 –> 00:22:18,674
in a world that doesn’t really value

646
00:22:19,214 –> 00:22:21,855
morals and values. Right? On one hand, we

647
00:22:21,855 –> 00:22:23,615
claim to value monogamy. When I look around,

648
00:22:23,615 –> 00:22:25,315
I don’t see a world that values monogamy.

649
00:22:25,319 –> 00:22:27,079
I just don’t. And so that’s, I think,

650
00:22:27,079 –> 00:22:29,079
the problem is if you’re highly sensitive, there’s

651
00:22:29,079 –> 00:22:31,079
these extraneous morals and values you’re supposed to

652
00:22:31,079 –> 00:22:32,919
adhere to, but I think we’re getting so

653
00:22:32,919 –> 00:22:35,339
much data. Here’s what I’m trying to say.

654
00:22:35,480 –> 00:22:37,000
I think a lot of the data we’re

655
00:22:37,000 –> 00:22:37,500
getting

656
00:22:37,880 –> 00:22:40,475
from this world is bad data, and it

657
00:22:40,475 –> 00:22:41,535
conflicts with

658
00:22:41,835 –> 00:22:43,355
the husband we wanna be, the father we

659
00:22:43,355 –> 00:22:44,634
wanna be, the man we wanna be. And

660
00:22:44,634 –> 00:22:45,914
so I think as highly sensitive people, at

661
00:22:45,914 –> 00:22:47,835
least my impression was I was taking in

662
00:22:47,835 –> 00:22:50,075
a ton of data that was shit. And,

663
00:22:50,075 –> 00:22:52,890
unfortunately, it just really had a huge detriment

664
00:22:52,890 –> 00:22:54,650
on my life. Jason, did did that make

665
00:22:54,650 –> 00:22:56,570
sense? Was that clear? Oh, yeah. Yeah. No.

666
00:22:56,570 –> 00:22:57,769
That makes sense to me. And, I mean,

667
00:22:57,769 –> 00:22:58,970
I think I think a lot of the

668
00:22:58,970 –> 00:23:00,730
data that we take in then is skewed

669
00:23:00,730 –> 00:23:02,570
towards the negative. That day that I said

670
00:23:02,570 –> 00:23:04,410
that to Mike, I didn’t mean to say

671
00:23:04,410 –> 00:23:06,650
anything life changing or brilliant for him. I

672
00:23:06,650 –> 00:23:08,654
just honestly said the thing I wished I’d

673
00:23:08,654 –> 00:23:10,734
heard as a child. So for me, that

674
00:23:10,734 –> 00:23:12,335
was an easy thing to say because I’d

675
00:23:12,335 –> 00:23:14,095
I’d spent a long time wishing I’d hear

676
00:23:14,095 –> 00:23:16,255
it. And so I think some of this

677
00:23:16,255 –> 00:23:18,654
is giving people permission to be who they

678
00:23:18,654 –> 00:23:20,009
are and work from there

679
00:23:20,410 –> 00:23:22,730
instead of starting with there’s something wrong or

680
00:23:22,730 –> 00:23:24,170
bad about me and I need to solve

681
00:23:24,170 –> 00:23:25,849
it. Yeah. Because if I need to solve

682
00:23:25,849 –> 00:23:27,130
it, then I need to come up with

683
00:23:27,130 –> 00:23:29,369
an attempted solution, and that often leads you

684
00:23:29,369 –> 00:23:31,369
down a path you don’t wanna go. And

685
00:23:31,369 –> 00:23:33,365
so I think what’s been really fascinating for

686
00:23:33,365 –> 00:23:34,964
me as a clinician, I know Mike does

687
00:23:34,964 –> 00:23:36,804
a lot of this work, is I give

688
00:23:36,804 –> 00:23:39,044
people permission to do what’s normal to them.

689
00:23:39,044 –> 00:23:40,884
You know, sometimes I’ll get a guy that

690
00:23:40,884 –> 00:23:42,585
comes in and they’ll be tearful

691
00:23:42,884 –> 00:23:44,484
talking about something and just say, you know,

692
00:23:44,484 –> 00:23:47,309
I shouldn’t cry. And sometimes people literally pay

693
00:23:47,309 –> 00:23:48,910
me money to say, well, I think maybe

694
00:23:48,910 –> 00:23:50,910
you should. Mhmm. And and it’s a big

695
00:23:50,910 –> 00:23:52,829
deal to them because no one said that.

696
00:23:52,829 –> 00:23:54,910
But there’s this part of us, especially if

697
00:23:54,910 –> 00:23:57,230
we have HSP where we wanna hear that

698
00:23:57,230 –> 00:23:58,934
it’s okay to be us. And when we

699
00:23:58,934 –> 00:24:01,095
know it’s okay to be us, we can

700
00:24:01,095 –> 00:24:03,974
operate from a healthier place Yeah. Because we’re

701
00:24:03,974 –> 00:24:06,934
empowered. Mike, you have similar experiences with clients

702
00:24:06,934 –> 00:24:08,154
in this area. Correct?

703
00:24:08,534 –> 00:24:10,934
Yeah. I think what we’re looking at, like,

704
00:24:10,934 –> 00:24:13,470
through the highly sensitive lens and then other

705
00:24:13,470 –> 00:24:15,009
things that we’re talking about is

706
00:24:15,470 –> 00:24:16,690
what are the adaptive

707
00:24:17,309 –> 00:24:18,990
parts of it. And, you know, I think

708
00:24:18,990 –> 00:24:20,509
we we always need to keep in mind

709
00:24:20,509 –> 00:24:22,109
that so many of these these things that

710
00:24:22,109 –> 00:24:24,210
we do that eventually become maladaptive,

711
00:24:24,509 –> 00:24:25,890
originally, they were survival

712
00:24:26,444 –> 00:24:28,125
based. Right? Like, that’s what we were trying

713
00:24:28,125 –> 00:24:30,125
to do. But that isn’t to say though

714
00:24:30,125 –> 00:24:31,884
that when you get to a certain point,

715
00:24:31,884 –> 00:24:34,284
they’re they’re functional anymore. I think part of

716
00:24:34,284 –> 00:24:36,444
maturing is coming to the understanding, like, that’s

717
00:24:36,444 –> 00:24:38,609
not actually healthy for me anymore. I need,

718
00:24:38,609 –> 00:24:40,849
like, I need to do that a different

719
00:24:40,849 –> 00:24:41,349
way,

720
00:24:41,650 –> 00:24:43,809
and particularly when it comes to addictive things

721
00:24:43,809 –> 00:24:45,109
and a lot of other things.

722
00:24:45,410 –> 00:24:47,329
I think the sign of growth is when

723
00:24:47,329 –> 00:24:49,089
you recognize, well, wait a minute. I wonder

724
00:24:49,089 –> 00:24:51,730
if there is a healthier way for me

725
00:24:51,730 –> 00:24:53,250
to deal with that. So where it started

726
00:24:53,250 –> 00:24:54,069
as survival,

727
00:24:54,664 –> 00:24:56,664
maybe now doesn’t need to be. And even

728
00:24:56,664 –> 00:24:58,105
if it does, can I do that in

729
00:24:58,105 –> 00:25:00,505
a healthier form? And really with being highly

730
00:25:00,505 –> 00:25:03,304
sensitive, that’s true too. I think with being

731
00:25:03,304 –> 00:25:05,164
easily overwhelmed and overstimulated

732
00:25:05,464 –> 00:25:08,220
by our environment, that then leads to more

733
00:25:08,220 –> 00:25:10,700
quickly looking for those fast medicators to try

734
00:25:10,700 –> 00:25:12,940
to calm that nervous system down. And there

735
00:25:12,940 –> 00:25:14,859
are really healthy ways to do that, but

736
00:25:14,859 –> 00:25:16,940
then there are also really unhealthy ways to

737
00:25:16,940 –> 00:25:18,779
do that. And I think the key, and

738
00:25:18,779 –> 00:25:20,325
I I know that I think about this

739
00:25:20,325 –> 00:25:22,404
a lot just for myself is, well, what

740
00:25:22,404 –> 00:25:24,404
are those healthy ways? And then how often

741
00:25:24,484 –> 00:25:26,484
because you’re never gonna do a 100%, but,

742
00:25:26,484 –> 00:25:28,644
like, how often am I employing those healthy

743
00:25:28,644 –> 00:25:30,244
things? And so I think I’m getting a

744
00:25:30,244 –> 00:25:31,845
little bit ahead of us, but I wanna

745
00:25:31,845 –> 00:25:33,660
point out that it’s really both. We start

746
00:25:33,660 –> 00:25:35,580
with survival. That’s what it is. Because as

747
00:25:35,580 –> 00:25:37,660
a kid, that’s what you’re doing. At some

748
00:25:37,660 –> 00:25:39,740
point, maturity is about, wait a minute, though.

749
00:25:39,740 –> 00:25:42,160
I have now the license and the agency

750
00:25:42,860 –> 00:25:44,700
to make some different choices. And let me

751
00:25:44,700 –> 00:25:46,720
set up the very best for myself,

752
00:25:47,265 –> 00:25:49,664
right, and then pursue that. I I think

753
00:25:49,744 –> 00:25:52,705
and and the beauty of especially high achieving

754
00:25:52,705 –> 00:25:53,605
people is

755
00:25:54,144 –> 00:25:56,705
often they’re good at that, but I think

756
00:25:56,705 –> 00:25:59,025
it’s also you know, Covey said this, like,

757
00:25:59,025 –> 00:26:01,184
be careful, you know, when you’re, like, climbing

758
00:26:01,184 –> 00:26:01,845
the ladder,

759
00:26:02,429 –> 00:26:04,349
what your ladder is leaning against. Right? Are

760
00:26:04,349 –> 00:26:06,109
you sure it’s leaning against the right wall?

761
00:26:06,109 –> 00:26:07,789
And so for high achieving people, I think

762
00:26:07,789 –> 00:26:09,309
it’s a moment to stop and say, I

763
00:26:09,309 –> 00:26:11,649
know that I can achieve this healthy thing.

764
00:26:12,269 –> 00:26:15,009
Is what I’m trying to do the healthiest

765
00:26:15,309 –> 00:26:16,529
for me? And

766
00:26:16,945 –> 00:26:18,705
I think a lot about that. Yeah. And

767
00:26:18,705 –> 00:26:20,545
I think too, it seems for highly sensitive

768
00:26:20,545 –> 00:26:22,705
people, it’s stickier. What I mean by that

769
00:26:22,705 –> 00:26:24,144
is, like, you know, when I when I

770
00:26:24,144 –> 00:26:25,664
think of almost like a belief, I, like,

771
00:26:25,664 –> 00:26:27,505
imagine like a like a pathway in my

772
00:26:27,505 –> 00:26:29,904
brain. Right? And the more data I have

773
00:26:29,904 –> 00:26:31,445
thrown into that pathway,

774
00:26:32,130 –> 00:26:35,250
the stronger and beefier that nerve gets. And

775
00:26:35,250 –> 00:26:37,089
then there’s actually there’s some truth to this.

776
00:26:37,089 –> 00:26:38,769
We’ve seen this. When when you use it

777
00:26:38,769 –> 00:26:41,089
a ton, your brain sees a ton of

778
00:26:41,089 –> 00:26:43,109
utility and value in it and it becomes

779
00:26:43,329 –> 00:26:44,470
stronger, faster,

780
00:26:44,914 –> 00:26:46,914
more easier to use. I think with highly

781
00:26:46,914 –> 00:26:48,755
sensitive people, at least from what I’ve seen

782
00:26:48,755 –> 00:26:51,474
is they have this pathway. And, you know,

783
00:26:51,474 –> 00:26:53,794
maybe for somebody who’s less sensitive, it could

784
00:26:53,794 –> 00:26:55,315
be easier to destroy. What I find with

785
00:26:55,315 –> 00:26:57,075
a lot of highly sensitive people is they

786
00:26:57,075 –> 00:26:58,534
have been building that case

787
00:26:59,099 –> 00:27:01,779
on steroids. I mean, I’m talking like, you

788
00:27:01,779 –> 00:27:03,980
know, let’s say, like, I am socially awkward.

789
00:27:03,980 –> 00:27:05,660
Let’s say that that’s that’s a conclusion that

790
00:27:05,660 –> 00:27:07,660
they made when they were eight or nine

791
00:27:07,660 –> 00:27:10,380
years old. They have strengthened the case for

792
00:27:10,380 –> 00:27:13,694
that, like, crazy. What to avoid. Oh, that

793
00:27:13,694 –> 00:27:15,734
person, high likelihood of that person bullying me,

794
00:27:15,734 –> 00:27:17,335
I’m just not gonna go over there. And,

795
00:27:17,335 –> 00:27:19,595
oh, I wanna play this sport but

796
00:27:19,894 –> 00:27:22,375
Trevor and TJ are playing that sport and

797
00:27:22,375 –> 00:27:23,654
they always are mean to me so I’m

798
00:27:23,654 –> 00:27:25,174
just not gonna I’m not gonna play. It’s

799
00:27:25,174 –> 00:27:28,160
just they just they so much thinking has

800
00:27:28,160 –> 00:27:29,359
gone into that. And then when I meet

801
00:27:29,359 –> 00:27:31,779
them, they’re in their thirties, forties, fifties

802
00:27:32,240 –> 00:27:34,240
and, you know, their life’s blowing up because

803
00:27:34,240 –> 00:27:36,320
of their sexual compulsivity. And then you go

804
00:27:36,320 –> 00:27:38,480
into the root and I find this just

805
00:27:38,480 –> 00:27:41,744
neural network that is just they’re so convinced

806
00:27:41,805 –> 00:27:44,065
that they are socially awkward, worthless,

807
00:27:44,765 –> 00:27:46,684
whatever it is. And it’s I I find

808
00:27:46,684 –> 00:27:48,605
it very I feel so bad for highly

809
00:27:48,605 –> 00:27:51,085
sensitive people because, you know, again, they’ve just

810
00:27:51,164 –> 00:27:53,900
they’ve got so much data worked against them.

811
00:27:53,900 –> 00:27:55,339
This is my own personal story. I just

812
00:27:55,339 –> 00:27:56,960
feel I feel like I have just this

813
00:27:57,019 –> 00:27:57,519
overwhelming

814
00:27:57,980 –> 00:28:00,619
resume that can basically discredit any therapist in

815
00:28:00,619 –> 00:28:02,539
the world. I can discredit all of them

816
00:28:02,539 –> 00:28:04,079
so that I can stay

817
00:28:04,380 –> 00:28:07,214
worthless, shy, whatever it is that I’m convinced

818
00:28:07,214 –> 00:28:09,295
I am. Right? Mike, can you speak to

819
00:28:09,295 –> 00:28:10,414
it? Like, I know you do a lot

820
00:28:10,414 –> 00:28:12,015
of that work. Does that make sense? Does

821
00:28:12,015 –> 00:28:13,615
that analogy kind of because I do. I

822
00:28:13,615 –> 00:28:14,974
see this these poor guys. I see them,

823
00:28:14,974 –> 00:28:16,734
and I’m just like, oh my gosh. Like,

824
00:28:16,734 –> 00:28:18,174
I hope this guy has enough gas in

825
00:28:18,174 –> 00:28:19,930
the tank because it’s gonna be a good

826
00:28:19,930 –> 00:28:21,370
decade for him to really get to the

827
00:28:21,370 –> 00:28:22,570
to the core of a lot of this

828
00:28:22,570 –> 00:28:24,890
stuff. So Totally. So well, it’s confirmation bias.

829
00:28:24,890 –> 00:28:26,809
Right? So we take in information from our

830
00:28:26,809 –> 00:28:28,970
environment. For high sensitive people, we take in

831
00:28:28,970 –> 00:28:30,110
a lot more information.

832
00:28:30,490 –> 00:28:32,009
So there’s a lot more to sift through,

833
00:28:32,009 –> 00:28:35,194
but our brains are wired and really designed

834
00:28:35,194 –> 00:28:36,494
and created to

835
00:28:37,035 –> 00:28:39,994
be more aware and to store the negative

836
00:28:39,994 –> 00:28:42,794
experiences because the idea is, well, if my

837
00:28:42,794 –> 00:28:45,194
nervous system records that negative experience, then I’ll

838
00:28:45,194 –> 00:28:47,134
avoid that in the future. Right? So,

839
00:28:47,670 –> 00:28:48,170
unfortunately,

840
00:28:48,549 –> 00:28:49,610
we’re more inclined

841
00:28:49,990 –> 00:28:53,529
to recognize and to store those negative experiences

842
00:28:53,590 –> 00:28:55,289
we have more so than the positive.

843
00:28:55,750 –> 00:28:57,990
And so the confirmation bias is as you

844
00:28:57,990 –> 00:29:00,384
do that enough times, then you begin to

845
00:29:00,384 –> 00:29:02,704
expect that whether it’s beliefs about self or

846
00:29:02,704 –> 00:29:05,345
beliefs about others in your environment. And that’s

847
00:29:05,345 –> 00:29:07,345
where those guards and protections come up. Right?

848
00:29:07,345 –> 00:29:09,765
Because I don’t wanna get caught off guard.

849
00:29:09,984 –> 00:29:11,984
And we know from a nervous system perspective,

850
00:29:11,984 –> 00:29:13,500
I use this a lot with my clients.

851
00:29:13,500 –> 00:29:15,900
I say story follows state. We often talk

852
00:29:15,900 –> 00:29:18,140
about, like, the state of your nervous system

853
00:29:18,140 –> 00:29:20,140
is going to inform the story in your

854
00:29:20,140 –> 00:29:22,380
head. Mhmm. Pure and simple. So if you’re

855
00:29:22,380 –> 00:29:23,839
in a fight or flight response,

856
00:29:24,380 –> 00:29:27,019
that by design is going to very much

857
00:29:27,019 –> 00:29:29,654
influence the way you’re filtering the data that’s

858
00:29:29,654 –> 00:29:31,575
coming into you. And guess what? It’s probably

859
00:29:31,575 –> 00:29:33,494
not gonna be super accurate. So you’re gonna

860
00:29:33,494 –> 00:29:35,434
see problems where there may not be. Mhmm.

861
00:29:35,654 –> 00:29:37,734
And that’s high I mean, that’s highly sensitive

862
00:29:37,734 –> 00:29:39,914
people anyway in some ways is

863
00:29:40,470 –> 00:29:41,929
it’s both reading

864
00:29:42,390 –> 00:29:44,630
the room and the level of information, but

865
00:29:44,630 –> 00:29:45,929
it is also processing

866
00:29:46,309 –> 00:29:48,950
appropriately. Well, what does that look actually mean?

867
00:29:48,950 –> 00:29:51,429
Right? Is my wife actually mad at me,

868
00:29:51,429 –> 00:29:53,289
or do I think that that’s

869
00:29:53,615 –> 00:29:55,615
true? And, you know, throughout my marriage, I’ve

870
00:29:55,615 –> 00:29:56,894
been like, well, I know, you know, I

871
00:29:56,894 –> 00:29:58,414
know you’re mad. So what are you mad

872
00:29:58,414 –> 00:30:00,575
about? And my wife’s like, I’m not mad.

873
00:30:00,575 –> 00:30:01,955
I picked up something,

874
00:30:02,654 –> 00:30:04,595
but I didn’t interpret it correctly.

875
00:30:05,134 –> 00:30:07,695
And so this gets really complicated. Right? Because

876
00:30:07,695 –> 00:30:10,309
in the communication process, we’ve got these multiple

877
00:30:10,309 –> 00:30:12,230
things going on. But I wanna point that

878
00:30:12,230 –> 00:30:14,630
out for highly sensitive people because you can’t

879
00:30:14,630 –> 00:30:15,690
always just

880
00:30:16,070 –> 00:30:18,630
run a 100 miles an hour with every

881
00:30:18,630 –> 00:30:20,630
bit of data set that you receive because

882
00:30:20,630 –> 00:30:23,615
it’s not always accurate just because you’re picking

883
00:30:23,615 –> 00:30:25,634
up something for sure that’s accurate,

884
00:30:26,174 –> 00:30:28,095
but interpreting what you’re picking up is a

885
00:30:28,095 –> 00:30:29,934
different matter. Well and, Jason, you work with

886
00:30:29,934 –> 00:30:31,554
couples. I mean, wouldn’t you say

887
00:30:32,095 –> 00:30:34,539
I mean, as a highly sensitive guy who

888
00:30:34,539 –> 00:30:36,720
has now betrayed your wife sexually,

889
00:30:37,099 –> 00:30:39,339
what a shit show this environment you’re gonna

890
00:30:39,339 –> 00:30:41,339
be in. I mean, you’re gonna be getting

891
00:30:41,339 –> 00:30:43,180
heart you’re meaning a lot of data and

892
00:30:43,180 –> 00:30:45,180
some of the harshest data. I don’t know.

893
00:30:45,180 –> 00:30:46,720
I mean, I think I think recovery

894
00:30:47,259 –> 00:30:50,085
after discovery day was probably the harshest data

895
00:30:50,085 –> 00:30:51,525
I’ve ever had to process. I mean, I’m

896
00:30:51,525 –> 00:30:53,205
going to a 12 step meeting, which I

897
00:30:53,205 –> 00:30:55,365
never imagined I would ever step in a

898
00:30:55,365 –> 00:30:57,205
room like that in my life. My wife

899
00:30:57,205 –> 00:30:59,224
is calling me things that I never dreamed

900
00:30:59,684 –> 00:31:01,445
my wife would call me. Never dreamed. I

901
00:31:01,445 –> 00:31:03,819
mean, it’s just, and, again, the intensives, the

902
00:31:03,980 –> 00:31:05,900
I mean, it was as a highly sensitive

903
00:31:05,900 –> 00:31:09,259
dude recovering from this with my wife, it

904
00:31:09,259 –> 00:31:10,640
was the most overwhelming

905
00:31:11,019 –> 00:31:14,220
situation I’ve ever been in. And and, Jason,

906
00:31:14,220 –> 00:31:16,085
you work with couples is what I’m saying

907
00:31:16,144 –> 00:31:17,744
accurate. Right? As as highly you know, it’s

908
00:31:17,744 –> 00:31:19,505
already a bloodbath, and then as a highly

909
00:31:19,505 –> 00:31:22,065
sensitive person, it’s like, oh my gosh. It’s

910
00:31:22,065 –> 00:31:23,664
it’s just it’s the hardest year of my

911
00:31:23,664 –> 00:31:26,065
life. No question about it. Absolutely. And I

912
00:31:26,065 –> 00:31:27,984
think what’s really hard is that these beliefs,

913
00:31:27,984 –> 00:31:29,825
like you said, they’re not written on paper.

914
00:31:29,825 –> 00:31:32,119
They’re written in concrete for people with this.

915
00:31:32,119 –> 00:31:34,359
And so how do we challenge that belief?

916
00:31:34,359 –> 00:31:36,440
And then the struggle with couples work after

917
00:31:36,440 –> 00:31:38,759
betrayal is, what do I do if some

918
00:31:38,759 –> 00:31:41,079
of what I sense is accurate? Right? So

919
00:31:41,079 –> 00:31:42,519
we spend a lot of time talking about

920
00:31:42,519 –> 00:31:44,964
what do we do if we’re skewed towards

921
00:31:44,964 –> 00:31:46,724
the negative or it’s wrong, but now what

922
00:31:46,724 –> 00:31:48,404
do I do when I think they’re mad

923
00:31:48,404 –> 00:31:50,085
at me and they are? Mhmm. Right? And

924
00:31:50,085 –> 00:31:52,585
they actually have a really legit legitimate reason.

925
00:31:52,964 –> 00:31:54,484
Now what do I do with that really

926
00:31:54,484 –> 00:31:56,404
hard feeling I don’t wanna feel, and I

927
00:31:56,404 –> 00:31:58,630
feel it deeper than I’d like to. Right?

928
00:31:58,630 –> 00:32:00,309
And so that’s often sort of the challenge

929
00:32:00,309 –> 00:32:01,910
that I have with couples is first, we

930
00:32:01,910 –> 00:32:04,069
have to teach that person, how do I

931
00:32:04,069 –> 00:32:06,490
sit with their emotions about what happened?

932
00:32:06,869 –> 00:32:09,029
Because that’s often a really difficult place for

933
00:32:09,029 –> 00:32:10,230
them to land because they don’t know how

934
00:32:10,230 –> 00:32:12,275
to do it for themselves. Mhmm. Right? And

935
00:32:12,275 –> 00:32:14,275
so the coping came from them not being

936
00:32:14,275 –> 00:32:16,035
able to do it and now their person

937
00:32:16,035 –> 00:32:17,714
has feelings. And so how do we work

938
00:32:17,714 –> 00:32:20,595
through that? But yet, it’s hard when you

939
00:32:20,595 –> 00:32:22,994
really sense that because I’ll sometimes work with

940
00:32:22,994 –> 00:32:25,095
couples where the guy will catch that

941
00:32:25,410 –> 00:32:27,330
before she’s even said it. She’ll say it

942
00:32:27,330 –> 00:32:29,809
eventually, but but he’s already received that. And

943
00:32:29,809 –> 00:32:32,450
so then how do we let her feel

944
00:32:32,450 –> 00:32:34,690
that on her own time without jumping to

945
00:32:34,690 –> 00:32:35,430
that place

946
00:32:35,809 –> 00:32:37,809
and then sit in that difficult space? And

947
00:32:37,809 –> 00:32:39,890
that that’s not easy for anyone to do

948
00:32:39,890 –> 00:32:42,664
regardless of HSP or not. Let’s put a

949
00:32:42,664 –> 00:32:44,184
pin in that. I have a follow-up question

950
00:32:44,184 –> 00:32:46,505
for you, Jason. Like, here here’s the other

951
00:32:46,505 –> 00:32:47,785
thing is a lot of the stuff you’re

952
00:32:47,785 –> 00:32:48,285
seeing

953
00:32:48,585 –> 00:32:51,305
is true. I was a liar, a big

954
00:32:51,305 –> 00:32:52,924
liar about big things.

955
00:32:53,509 –> 00:32:56,089
I paid for sex, which is freaking

956
00:32:56,470 –> 00:32:59,750
disgusting, so dehumanized. Like like, I made another

957
00:32:59,750 –> 00:33:02,649
person do something for money that they probably

958
00:33:02,710 –> 00:33:05,750
didn’t wanna do. Like, I’m facing stuff, Jason,

959
00:33:05,750 –> 00:33:08,434
as a highly sensitive person that is validating

960
00:33:08,494 –> 00:33:10,494
shit. I do not wanna validate. I do

961
00:33:10,494 –> 00:33:12,494
not wanna be a liar. I always considered

962
00:33:12,494 –> 00:33:14,575
myself a man of integrity. I would say

963
00:33:14,575 –> 00:33:16,595
a 100% of the men in my program

964
00:33:16,894 –> 00:33:18,835
consider themselves to be a man of integrity.

965
00:33:19,134 –> 00:33:21,214
Now I’m getting a ton of data that

966
00:33:21,214 –> 00:33:23,589
is indicating I’m not. I’m not an honest

967
00:33:23,589 –> 00:33:25,369
man. I am not a man of integrity.

968
00:33:25,589 –> 00:33:27,509
Some of the stuff I’ve done is is

969
00:33:27,509 –> 00:33:28,490
really inhumane.

970
00:33:28,869 –> 00:33:30,390
It’s stuff you just shouldn’t do. You shouldn’t

971
00:33:30,390 –> 00:33:31,429
do it to your wife and you shouldn’t

972
00:33:31,429 –> 00:33:32,869
be doing it to other women. I mean,

973
00:33:32,869 –> 00:33:34,470
a lot of this stuff I’m seeing about

974
00:33:34,470 –> 00:33:36,244
myself. I’m starting to realize, you know, I’m

975
00:33:36,244 –> 00:33:37,704
like, ah, I’m not love avoidant.

976
00:33:38,005 –> 00:33:40,244
I’m love avoidant now. It’s like, crap, goddamn

977
00:33:40,244 –> 00:33:41,845
it. Then I turn another corner. It’s like,

978
00:33:41,845 –> 00:33:43,605
oh, by the way, you also are afraid

979
00:33:43,605 –> 00:33:45,765
of people and you’re you’re the reason you

980
00:33:45,765 –> 00:33:47,605
try so hard to make money and look

981
00:33:47,605 –> 00:33:50,190
so good is so that you can insulate

982
00:33:50,190 –> 00:33:52,349
yourself from them. I’m like crap, okay. And

983
00:33:52,349 –> 00:33:54,589
then here I am trying to give empathy.

984
00:33:54,589 –> 00:33:56,509
Well, it turns out I don’t value empathy

985
00:33:56,509 –> 00:33:58,029
because it was never given to me. So

986
00:33:58,029 –> 00:33:59,869
I don’t I don’t see any utility in

987
00:33:59,869 –> 00:34:02,349
those statements. And then I turn another corner.

988
00:34:02,349 –> 00:34:04,445
My point is it’s like I got so

989
00:34:04,445 –> 00:34:06,205
freaking overwhelmed, Jason. I I felt like I

990
00:34:06,205 –> 00:34:08,364
was in this maze that I thought was,

991
00:34:08,364 –> 00:34:10,284
like, kind of big. And then, like, I

992
00:34:10,284 –> 00:34:12,304
feel like every time I turned a corner,

993
00:34:12,364 –> 00:34:14,045
I realized that I was in, like, the

994
00:34:14,045 –> 00:34:16,045
world’s biggest maze of all time. I just

995
00:34:16,045 –> 00:34:17,164
I just wanted to speak to that and

996
00:34:17,164 –> 00:34:18,809
empathize with the because I think as a

997
00:34:18,809 –> 00:34:21,949
highly sensitive guy who’s facing all of this,

998
00:34:22,329 –> 00:34:24,489
meanwhile having a kid or two or three,

999
00:34:24,489 –> 00:34:26,489
a wife sitting on the board for this,

1000
00:34:26,489 –> 00:34:28,890
like, and to already struggle with because I

1001
00:34:28,890 –> 00:34:31,150
think highly sensitive men already struggle with insecurity

1002
00:34:31,530 –> 00:34:33,230
and some imposter syndrome.

1003
00:34:33,530 –> 00:34:35,984
Now, it’s like my worst nightmare just came

1004
00:34:35,984 –> 00:34:37,984
true. I’m actually I’ve always worried that I

1005
00:34:37,984 –> 00:34:39,525
was full of shit in a phony.

1006
00:34:39,905 –> 00:34:42,144
Now I’m like, gosh, I’m way worse than

1007
00:34:42,144 –> 00:34:43,045
I thought I was.

1008
00:34:43,344 –> 00:34:45,585
Yeah. That’s no easy task. And I feel

1009
00:34:45,585 –> 00:34:47,264
for you, my friend. And what I love

1010
00:34:47,264 –> 00:34:49,264
about you is you did the work and

1011
00:34:49,264 –> 00:34:51,069
you’re walking in it. Right? So you didn’t

1012
00:34:51,069 –> 00:34:52,829
just do it and then leave it. You’re

1013
00:34:52,829 –> 00:34:54,109
still doing it today. And I mean, I

1014
00:34:54,109 –> 00:34:55,869
think that’s the message the clients we work

1015
00:34:55,869 –> 00:34:57,230
with is is this is gonna be a

1016
00:34:57,230 –> 00:35:00,349
lifelong thing. What’s always interesting to me is

1017
00:35:00,349 –> 00:35:02,670
d day is often or discovery day is

1018
00:35:02,670 –> 00:35:03,730
as often when

1019
00:35:04,144 –> 00:35:06,625
we come face to face with the signals

1020
00:35:06,625 –> 00:35:08,324
we chase that weren’t for us.

1021
00:35:08,625 –> 00:35:10,385
We have to own that part. And and

1022
00:35:10,385 –> 00:35:12,224
so there’s all these different things we did

1023
00:35:12,224 –> 00:35:13,744
that weren’t really all of us, but they

1024
00:35:13,744 –> 00:35:16,304
were part of us. And what’s always interesting

1025
00:35:16,304 –> 00:35:18,199
to me is that I would say the

1026
00:35:18,199 –> 00:35:20,519
vast majority of the time, the person you’re

1027
00:35:20,519 –> 00:35:23,239
with, your spouse, your partner, they actually love

1028
00:35:23,239 –> 00:35:25,319
the real you if you haven’t even figured

1029
00:35:25,319 –> 00:35:27,400
that person out yet. So you might be

1030
00:35:27,400 –> 00:35:29,239
unsure and you might just be consumed with

1031
00:35:29,239 –> 00:35:30,795
guilt, but at the end of the day,

1032
00:35:30,795 –> 00:35:32,554
they love the real you no matter how

1033
00:35:32,554 –> 00:35:33,614
messy it is,

1034
00:35:33,914 –> 00:35:35,675
but your task is to figure out who

1035
00:35:35,675 –> 00:35:37,675
that is. And so I think in this

1036
00:35:37,675 –> 00:35:39,614
moment, it’s it’s completely

1037
00:35:39,994 –> 00:35:40,494
overwhelming

1038
00:35:41,114 –> 00:35:42,715
and emotionally. I mean, you think about if

1039
00:35:42,715 –> 00:35:44,554
you’re already sensitive to things like this, it’s

1040
00:35:44,554 –> 00:35:47,140
it’s the worst possible thing to have happen.

1041
00:35:47,599 –> 00:35:49,140
But what I often see,

1042
00:35:49,440 –> 00:35:50,880
just kinda out of the corner of my

1043
00:35:50,880 –> 00:35:53,119
eye, is is I see someone looking at

1044
00:35:53,119 –> 00:35:55,760
that person who’s coming face to face with

1045
00:35:55,760 –> 00:35:58,099
what they’ve done, and they just love them.

1046
00:35:58,239 –> 00:36:00,414
They still love them. And I think for

1047
00:36:00,414 –> 00:36:02,815
a person in that spot, usually the hardest

1048
00:36:02,815 –> 00:36:04,114
thing for them to receive

1049
00:36:04,574 –> 00:36:06,574
is the truth that they could be loved

1050
00:36:06,574 –> 00:36:09,214
even though they’ve done the things. Mhmm. And

1051
00:36:09,214 –> 00:36:11,454
that’s actually I mean, the strangest thing is

1052
00:36:11,454 –> 00:36:13,289
that’s where I see most couples get stuck,

1053
00:36:13,690 –> 00:36:16,170
is someone being unwilling to receive the love

1054
00:36:16,170 –> 00:36:17,849
that they have available to them if they

1055
00:36:17,849 –> 00:36:20,489
just receive it. Oh, 100%. And as a

1056
00:36:20,650 –> 00:36:22,329
I think that I think that’s the challenge

1057
00:36:22,329 –> 00:36:23,869
too as being an over processor.

1058
00:36:24,650 –> 00:36:26,554
Right? It’s like, wait, I’m a mon no.

1059
00:36:26,554 –> 00:36:27,994
It’s like it’s like, no. No. No. I

1060
00:36:27,994 –> 00:36:29,375
remember. I’m a monster.

1061
00:36:29,994 –> 00:36:32,154
I could have never loved you. You wish

1062
00:36:32,154 –> 00:36:34,234
you never met me. I did not forget

1063
00:36:34,234 –> 00:36:35,594
any of the things that were said to

1064
00:36:35,594 –> 00:36:37,355
me. And I think that’s the challenge is

1065
00:36:37,355 –> 00:36:40,094
here we are four years, five years later,

1066
00:36:40,369 –> 00:36:42,690
six years later, seven years later. And, yeah,

1067
00:36:42,690 –> 00:36:45,090
as a highly sensitive person, it’s like it’s

1068
00:36:45,090 –> 00:36:47,010
like, hey. I am you know, my story

1069
00:36:47,010 –> 00:36:47,750
is still,

1070
00:36:48,130 –> 00:36:50,210
hey. Yeah. You stayed with me, but you’re

1071
00:36:50,210 –> 00:36:51,110
with a monster.

1072
00:36:51,570 –> 00:36:53,489
Our work then is to your point. You

1073
00:36:53,489 –> 00:36:55,945
gotta let that go. I think at year

1074
00:36:55,945 –> 00:36:57,724
two, year three, the men

1075
00:36:58,344 –> 00:36:59,324
become the problem.

1076
00:36:59,704 –> 00:37:01,885
She’s actually at a point where she’s actually

1077
00:37:01,945 –> 00:37:04,425
ready to kind of shift into another gear.

1078
00:37:04,425 –> 00:37:05,885
And I think men oftentimes,

1079
00:37:06,344 –> 00:37:08,699
highly sensitive men, they’re just still stuck in

1080
00:37:08,699 –> 00:37:10,460
this. Well, I’m just such a piece of

1081
00:37:10,460 –> 00:37:12,780
trash. Like, I’m always gonna be a piece

1082
00:37:12,780 –> 00:37:14,619
of trash. You know, it’s just it’s just

1083
00:37:14,699 –> 00:37:17,360
they just, like, shifted into this unproductive

1084
00:37:17,820 –> 00:37:20,480
gear that I think then starts almost driving.

1085
00:37:20,735 –> 00:37:22,355
It’s like in his delusion,

1086
00:37:22,655 –> 00:37:24,974
she’s still the problem because she thinks this

1087
00:37:24,974 –> 00:37:26,434
about him. The irony is

1088
00:37:26,735 –> 00:37:28,414
I think she’s really kinda come a long

1089
00:37:28,414 –> 00:37:30,335
way and is open to changing the tone

1090
00:37:30,335 –> 00:37:32,015
and actually do it and but he’s so

1091
00:37:32,015 –> 00:37:33,880
fixated on no, no, no, like like, this

1092
00:37:33,880 –> 00:37:35,480
is what you think of me and now

1093
00:37:35,480 –> 00:37:36,840
we need to make the best of this.

1094
00:37:36,840 –> 00:37:38,119
And how do you make the best of

1095
00:37:38,119 –> 00:37:40,280
being a relationship when your wife thinks you’re

1096
00:37:40,280 –> 00:37:41,719
a monster and she wish she never met

1097
00:37:41,719 –> 00:37:43,000
you? I I don’t think you can. And

1098
00:37:43,000 –> 00:37:45,320
so I think our work then becomes letting

1099
00:37:45,320 –> 00:37:47,554
that go which is hard. Hey, Mike. In

1100
00:37:47,554 –> 00:37:49,875
the in these last thirteen minutes, I just

1101
00:37:49,875 –> 00:37:52,434
wanna make sure that we talk about things

1102
00:37:52,434 –> 00:37:54,355
that we need to talk about. What do

1103
00:37:54,355 –> 00:37:56,594
you think is the most important for people

1104
00:37:56,594 –> 00:37:57,494
listening to this?

1105
00:37:57,795 –> 00:38:00,034
What we’re talking about actually right now without

1106
00:38:00,034 –> 00:38:01,829
saying it is the next part. So we

1107
00:38:01,829 –> 00:38:03,829
started with depth of processing. We moved to

1108
00:38:03,829 –> 00:38:04,969
overt kind of stimulation.

1109
00:38:05,510 –> 00:38:07,670
The next so this acronym is d o

1110
00:38:07,670 –> 00:38:08,410
e s.

1111
00:38:08,869 –> 00:38:11,269
The next is e, which is actually what

1112
00:38:11,269 –> 00:38:13,610
we’re talking about, and that is emotional responsiveness

1113
00:38:13,829 –> 00:38:14,489
and empathy.

1114
00:38:14,825 –> 00:38:16,204
So highly sensitive people

1115
00:38:16,505 –> 00:38:18,905
are higher on the emotional responsive scale. They’re

1116
00:38:18,905 –> 00:38:21,785
higher on the empathy scale. And we, I

1117
00:38:21,785 –> 00:38:23,085
think, very appropriately

1118
00:38:23,465 –> 00:38:25,005
are talking about how

1119
00:38:25,545 –> 00:38:29,545
powerfully difficult discovery is on everyone. Right? And

1120
00:38:29,545 –> 00:38:31,282
no matter if you’re highly sensitive or not.

1121
00:38:31,282 –> 00:38:33,534
But for highly sensitive people, of course, they’re

1122
00:38:33,534 –> 00:38:35,786
gonna take that data so much more. It’s

1123
00:38:35,786 –> 00:38:38,038
just, like, so overwhelming. But the thing that’s

1124
00:38:38,038 –> 00:38:40,289
so interesting about the recovery process is, I

1125
00:38:40,289 –> 00:38:42,541
think you’re right, Roland, as you get into

1126
00:38:42,541 –> 00:38:44,793
year two and as you get further into

1127
00:38:44,793 –> 00:38:47,155
this, for highly sensitive people, if they can

1128
00:38:47,155 –> 00:38:47,655
utilize

1129
00:38:48,355 –> 00:38:49,255
the ability

1130
00:38:49,635 –> 00:38:50,375
to empathize,

1131
00:38:50,675 –> 00:38:52,914
which is like, that is a hallmark of

1132
00:38:52,914 –> 00:38:55,414
a highly sensitive person and that emotional responsiveness,

1133
00:38:56,114 –> 00:38:59,315
they actually have an incredible recovery potential

1134
00:38:59,635 –> 00:39:02,079
Mhmm. With their spouse. Because the way to

1135
00:39:02,079 –> 00:39:04,179
recover from betrayal trauma

1136
00:39:04,559 –> 00:39:07,360
is to have someone that is present, emotionally

1137
00:39:07,360 –> 00:39:08,500
available, and empathetic.

1138
00:39:08,800 –> 00:39:10,639
Pure and simple. Like, that is how you

1139
00:39:10,639 –> 00:39:11,300
do it.

1140
00:39:11,599 –> 00:39:14,159
Not doing those things then is the way

1141
00:39:14,159 –> 00:39:16,434
to to slow and mess the whole process

1142
00:39:16,434 –> 00:39:17,954
up. Right? Because if you think about it,

1143
00:39:17,954 –> 00:39:19,574
the problem, of course, initially is

1144
00:39:19,954 –> 00:39:21,954
I wasn’t present. I didn’t pursue. I pursued

1145
00:39:21,954 –> 00:39:23,554
the wrong things, and they weren’t you. And

1146
00:39:23,554 –> 00:39:25,635
so now though, if I’m really, really present

1147
00:39:25,635 –> 00:39:27,875
and emotionally available to you and empathetic to

1148
00:39:27,875 –> 00:39:30,679
what you’re going through, the recovery process is

1149
00:39:30,679 –> 00:39:32,599
like throwing gasoline in a great way on

1150
00:39:32,599 –> 00:39:34,380
a fire. It’s just boom. It takes off.

1151
00:39:34,599 –> 00:39:36,219
So all that’s to say emotional

1152
00:39:36,839 –> 00:39:39,079
kind of depth and processing and empathy, that’s

1153
00:39:39,079 –> 00:39:40,599
the e part, which I think is important

1154
00:39:40,599 –> 00:39:42,599
for people to know if they’re highly sensitive.

1155
00:39:42,599 –> 00:39:45,085
Because while it creates more things to operate

1156
00:39:45,085 –> 00:39:47,565
in the world by, it’s an incredible thing.

1157
00:39:47,565 –> 00:39:49,804
And it makes really, by the way, really,

1158
00:39:49,804 –> 00:39:51,424
really good leaders

1159
00:39:51,884 –> 00:39:53,724
because you don’t have to teach them emotion,

1160
00:39:53,724 –> 00:39:55,164
you know, EQ. You don’t have to teach

1161
00:39:55,164 –> 00:39:57,904
them emotional intelligence. They they understand it.

1162
00:39:58,239 –> 00:40:00,000
Right? And so a lot of I would

1163
00:40:00,000 –> 00:40:01,440
posit I mean, I feel like I’m in

1164
00:40:01,440 –> 00:40:03,219
this category. A lot of successful

1165
00:40:03,920 –> 00:40:06,559
leaders, especially of organizations, like, they understand the

1166
00:40:06,559 –> 00:40:07,619
emotional component.

1167
00:40:07,920 –> 00:40:10,079
Mhmm. And that’s a beautiful thing about being

1168
00:40:10,079 –> 00:40:12,855
highly sensitive. Yeah. Innately. It’s just it’s not

1169
00:40:13,015 –> 00:40:15,355
and I I wanna encourage the audience, like,

1170
00:40:15,574 –> 00:40:18,235
your wife has probably accused you of being

1171
00:40:18,295 –> 00:40:18,795
unempathetic.

1172
00:40:19,494 –> 00:40:21,735
I can guarantee it. What I have found

1173
00:40:21,735 –> 00:40:22,235
is

1174
00:40:22,934 –> 00:40:25,650
I am extremely empathetic. If I really let

1175
00:40:25,730 –> 00:40:28,369
the weight of everyone’s problems bother me, it

1176
00:40:28,369 –> 00:40:29,809
can it can overwhelm the hell out of

1177
00:40:29,809 –> 00:40:31,489
me. If I really let it in, if

1178
00:40:31,489 –> 00:40:33,170
I walk through an airport, I could just

1179
00:40:33,170 –> 00:40:34,549
be in tears of just

1180
00:40:34,929 –> 00:40:36,769
if you really feel it. What I would

1181
00:40:36,769 –> 00:40:38,369
say is and then for those of you

1182
00:40:38,369 –> 00:40:40,369
who have not listened to my podcast episode

1183
00:40:40,369 –> 00:40:43,001
with with Stevie Hall, I would highly recommend

1184
00:40:43,001 –> 00:40:46,159
it because Stevie’s the way she talks about

1185
00:40:46,159 –> 00:40:48,967
empathy, especially within the context of sex addiction

1186
00:40:48,967 –> 00:40:51,774
recovery and betrayal trauma is so great. And,

1187
00:40:51,774 –> 00:40:54,119
Mike, what she talks about is, you know,

1188
00:40:54,119 –> 00:40:56,519
there’s three different kinds, right? There’s the one

1189
00:40:56,519 –> 00:40:58,039
that the ladies all want you to do,

1190
00:40:58,039 –> 00:40:59,960
which is usually the hardest one for us

1191
00:40:59,960 –> 00:41:01,400
to do. But then there’s a two other,

1192
00:41:01,400 –> 00:41:03,559
you know, there’s there’s cognitive empathy and empathic

1193
00:41:03,559 –> 00:41:05,319
action. And I would say a lot of

1194
00:41:05,319 –> 00:41:06,974
men are actually really good at those two.

1195
00:41:06,974 –> 00:41:09,155
They’re just not as great at the one

1196
00:41:09,215 –> 00:41:10,815
that our wives want us to be good

1197
00:41:10,815 –> 00:41:12,335
at. But my point is too, I think

1198
00:41:12,335 –> 00:41:13,775
we can do empathy really well but I

1199
00:41:13,775 –> 00:41:15,535
wanna just say one thing, Mike, that you

1200
00:41:15,614 –> 00:41:17,474
to empathize with the audience is,

1201
00:41:17,934 –> 00:41:19,954
you’re also gonna be extremely overwhelmed

1202
00:41:20,414 –> 00:41:22,509
by this. And so, what I find is

1203
00:41:22,509 –> 00:41:24,589
I get accused of being, oh, you don’t

1204
00:41:24,589 –> 00:41:25,089
care.

1205
00:41:25,389 –> 00:41:26,829
You, you know, I say all this and

1206
00:41:26,829 –> 00:41:28,289
you just sit there and say nothing.

1207
00:41:28,670 –> 00:41:29,730
I’m overwhelmed.

1208
00:41:30,109 –> 00:41:31,789
The the data that was just given to

1209
00:41:31,789 –> 00:41:33,789
me, I’m I’m freaking out. I I don’t

1210
00:41:33,789 –> 00:41:35,069
know what to say. There’s a lot of

1211
00:41:35,069 –> 00:41:36,764
truth to what she’s saying. I hate what

1212
00:41:36,764 –> 00:41:39,085
she’s saying, but I agree with it. And

1213
00:41:39,085 –> 00:41:40,224
so I’m just sitting there

1214
00:41:40,605 –> 00:41:43,085
frozen. I can’t be empathetic because I am

1215
00:41:43,085 –> 00:41:46,045
just it’s information overload and she’s also poking

1216
00:41:46,045 –> 00:41:47,885
on things that I really wish she wasn’t

1217
00:41:47,885 –> 00:41:50,410
poking on. To your point, I, at my

1218
00:41:50,410 –> 00:41:53,390
core, when I’ve taken every empathy test quiz,

1219
00:41:53,930 –> 00:41:56,410
I always score extremely highly. But my wife

1220
00:41:56,410 –> 00:41:57,690
would tell you that I am probably one

1221
00:41:57,690 –> 00:41:59,690
of the most unempathetic people she’s ever met.

1222
00:41:59,690 –> 00:42:01,289
But I think it’s it’s not like that.

1223
00:42:01,289 –> 00:42:03,405
It’s just in a high stakes environment,

1224
00:42:03,784 –> 00:42:06,045
I’m just overwhelmed. I’m not I’m not myself.

1225
00:42:06,824 –> 00:42:08,984
I think that that’s really well said and

1226
00:42:08,984 –> 00:42:10,585
a great point. And and then it could

1227
00:42:10,585 –> 00:42:12,585
kind of draws in, I think, everything that

1228
00:42:12,585 –> 00:42:14,264
we’ve talked about today is that in order

1229
00:42:14,264 –> 00:42:16,744
to function really well and to let high

1230
00:42:16,949 –> 00:42:19,050
being highly sensitive be a true strength,

1231
00:42:19,510 –> 00:42:21,909
you have to account for the ways that,

1232
00:42:21,909 –> 00:42:24,469
like, are the weaknesses. And the weaknesses around

1233
00:42:24,469 –> 00:42:26,170
what you’re saying, Roland, are so

1234
00:42:26,469 –> 00:42:27,530
easily overstimulated

1235
00:42:27,909 –> 00:42:30,730
that certainly in an environment where there’s trauma,

1236
00:42:31,404 –> 00:42:33,565
of course, you’re gonna be very, very quickly

1237
00:42:33,565 –> 00:42:34,065
overstimulated,

1238
00:42:34,364 –> 00:42:36,045
and your body has to deal with that.

1239
00:42:36,045 –> 00:42:37,804
Like, your nervous system has to do something

1240
00:42:37,804 –> 00:42:39,404
with that. And a lot of times, it’s

1241
00:42:39,404 –> 00:42:41,404
about them being shut down because it’s, like,

1242
00:42:41,404 –> 00:42:42,224
so overwhelming.

1243
00:42:43,099 –> 00:42:45,420
And so while the empathy is in there

1244
00:42:45,420 –> 00:42:46,960
and actually, ironically,

1245
00:42:47,260 –> 00:42:49,500
I’m empathizing so much that then it’s causing

1246
00:42:49,500 –> 00:42:51,679
me to shut down because I’m becoming overstimulated

1247
00:42:51,980 –> 00:42:53,440
by to my partner,

1248
00:42:53,820 –> 00:42:55,340
it doesn’t look like that at all. Right?

1249
00:42:55,340 –> 00:42:57,179
And that’s where you get that Oh, Mike.

1250
00:42:57,179 –> 00:42:59,324
It’s so true, brother. I’m sitting there, like,

1251
00:42:59,324 –> 00:43:00,684
I wish she could see what’s going on

1252
00:43:00,684 –> 00:43:01,965
in my head because in my head, I’m

1253
00:43:01,965 –> 00:43:02,465
thinking,

1254
00:43:02,844 –> 00:43:04,925
I can’t believe I did this to her.

1255
00:43:04,925 –> 00:43:06,304
I’m with her. I’m shocked

1256
00:43:06,605 –> 00:43:08,445
that I did the things that she, like,

1257
00:43:08,525 –> 00:43:10,284
you know, it’s it’s like in my head,

1258
00:43:10,284 –> 00:43:12,204
I’m on team my wife. I’m on her

1259
00:43:12,204 –> 00:43:14,579
team in every way. It’s it the the

1260
00:43:14,579 –> 00:43:17,239
shutdown she’s seeing is me in full agreement

1261
00:43:17,460 –> 00:43:20,579
and disgust of everything and sadness and grief.

1262
00:43:20,579 –> 00:43:22,259
I mean, I’m just I’m so sad I

1263
00:43:22,259 –> 00:43:24,440
did this to what was a perfect

1264
00:43:24,900 –> 00:43:27,539
marriage, perfect relationship, and now we’re gonna have

1265
00:43:27,539 –> 00:43:30,005
the stain on it for everybody. But then,

1266
00:43:30,005 –> 00:43:32,885
but what you see, head down, me staring

1267
00:43:32,885 –> 00:43:34,724
at a spot in the ground, just thinking,

1268
00:43:34,724 –> 00:43:36,664
thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking.

1269
00:43:37,045 –> 00:43:38,565
Jason, before we go to the last one,

1270
00:43:38,565 –> 00:43:39,844
Jason, do you have anything you wanna add

1271
00:43:39,844 –> 00:43:41,400
to that before we I think all the

1272
00:43:41,400 –> 00:43:43,480
points you’re making are really good ones. You

1273
00:43:43,480 –> 00:43:45,239
have it. You do have it. Right? It

1274
00:43:45,239 –> 00:43:47,480
just it’s not discussed the way that they’d

1275
00:43:47,480 –> 00:43:49,319
like to hear it and and verbalize the

1276
00:43:49,319 –> 00:43:50,519
way they’d like to hear it, but it’s

1277
00:43:50,519 –> 00:43:52,760
not because it’s not present. Right? I think,

1278
00:43:52,760 –> 00:43:55,644
unfortunately, what happens is we get so overwhelmed

1279
00:43:55,864 –> 00:43:58,264
that it becomes about us and our response

1280
00:43:58,264 –> 00:44:00,905
to being overwhelmed instead of verbalizing the things

1281
00:44:00,905 –> 00:44:03,144
we need to. And so sometimes I’ll hear

1282
00:44:03,144 –> 00:44:04,505
a spouse say, you know, it’s it’s always

1283
00:44:04,505 –> 00:44:06,425
gets turned to be about you. Yeah. And

1284
00:44:06,425 –> 00:44:08,425
the unfortunate thing is is sometimes it is

1285
00:44:08,425 –> 00:44:10,659
because we’re we’re so overwhelmed. Right? And so

1286
00:44:10,659 –> 00:44:12,039
until we can get regulated,

1287
00:44:12,420 –> 00:44:14,340
it kinda is about us because we need

1288
00:44:14,340 –> 00:44:16,579
to be regulated first before we can speak

1289
00:44:16,579 –> 00:44:18,659
to it. And so some of these coping

1290
00:44:18,659 –> 00:44:21,000
strategies is learning how to do that well

1291
00:44:21,300 –> 00:44:23,355
during or before we have that conversation. Yeah.

1292
00:44:23,355 –> 00:44:25,275
It’s a you’re you’re a highly sensitive person

1293
00:44:25,275 –> 00:44:26,335
and you’re insecure.

1294
00:44:26,635 –> 00:44:28,635
And then now you have somebody who’s saying

1295
00:44:28,795 –> 00:44:30,155
I mean, it’s a it’s it’s not a

1296
00:44:30,155 –> 00:44:30,974
great recipe.

1297
00:44:31,434 –> 00:44:33,514
If you want your husband to show up

1298
00:44:33,514 –> 00:44:34,735
in his greatness,

1299
00:44:35,210 –> 00:44:36,730
this is just as not a great recipe.

1300
00:44:36,730 –> 00:44:39,210
Here’s this person who struggles with insecurity and

1301
00:44:39,210 –> 00:44:39,869
not enoughness.

1302
00:44:40,250 –> 00:44:42,250
He’s highly sensitive and then now he’s in

1303
00:44:42,250 –> 00:44:45,049
this arguably part of the most unfavorable environment

1304
00:44:45,049 –> 00:44:46,809
ever to be at his best. And so

1305
00:44:46,809 –> 00:44:48,375
I think, you know, one thing I’ve noticed

1306
00:44:48,375 –> 00:44:50,215
that now my wife and I are, you

1307
00:44:50,215 –> 00:44:52,054
know, years and years and years into this,

1308
00:44:52,054 –> 00:44:53,974
the therapy and everything we’re doing is different.

1309
00:44:53,974 –> 00:44:55,594
It’s, hey, how do we create an environment

1310
00:44:55,735 –> 00:44:58,135
for her to be in her best and

1311
00:44:58,135 –> 00:44:59,494
me to be in my best so that

1312
00:44:59,494 –> 00:45:00,530
we can actually

1313
00:45:00,829 –> 00:45:01,329
constructively

1314
00:45:01,630 –> 00:45:03,410
deal with this. So I think it’s impossible

1315
00:45:03,710 –> 00:45:05,230
to ask a couple to do that inside

1316
00:45:05,230 –> 00:45:06,510
of the first year and a half, probably

1317
00:45:06,510 –> 00:45:07,949
inside of the first two years. There’s just

1318
00:45:07,949 –> 00:45:10,030
so much hurt and so much intensity. But

1319
00:45:10,030 –> 00:45:11,710
for the couples listening, if you do have

1320
00:45:11,710 –> 00:45:14,110
an interest of of getting into this constructive

1321
00:45:14,110 –> 00:45:15,905
place, you know, the more you guys can

1322
00:45:15,905 –> 00:45:17,445
really honor the uniqueness

1323
00:45:17,744 –> 00:45:18,804
of the other individual

1324
00:45:19,105 –> 00:45:20,625
and tee him up for success. If you

1325
00:45:20,625 –> 00:45:21,925
want this guy to empathize,

1326
00:45:22,465 –> 00:45:23,525
create an environment

1327
00:45:23,824 –> 00:45:26,144
where that can happen. Because I think a

1328
00:45:26,144 –> 00:45:27,905
lot of the times where these betrayed partners

1329
00:45:27,905 –> 00:45:29,364
want it the most, they

1330
00:45:29,889 –> 00:45:33,409
accidentally create an environment where it almost is

1331
00:45:33,409 –> 00:45:35,570
impossible to happen. And again, I’m not saying

1332
00:45:35,570 –> 00:45:36,930
the partners need to, you know, I I

1333
00:45:36,930 –> 00:45:38,210
I get it. They they have every right

1334
00:45:38,210 –> 00:45:40,449
to express their emotion. But I think in

1335
00:45:40,449 –> 00:45:43,090
this dynamic, we have to consider these unique

1336
00:45:43,090 –> 00:45:45,284
things about these other people. If you want

1337
00:45:45,284 –> 00:45:46,105
that response,

1338
00:45:46,405 –> 00:45:48,324
it’s in your best interest to create an

1339
00:45:48,324 –> 00:45:50,244
environment for that. I get it. Instead of

1340
00:45:50,244 –> 00:45:51,525
that first year and a half, it’s it’s

1341
00:45:51,525 –> 00:45:53,605
it’s almost impossible. So I just I empathize

1342
00:45:53,605 –> 00:45:55,204
with everybody listening to this. I’m not saying

1343
00:45:55,204 –> 00:45:57,125
you’re doing anything wrong. I’m not telling you

1344
00:45:57,125 –> 00:45:58,980
to criticize your wife or I’m not telling

1345
00:45:58,980 –> 00:46:00,500
the partners to criticize their husband. It’s not

1346
00:46:00,500 –> 00:46:02,260
what I’m saying. I’m just the more and

1347
00:46:02,260 –> 00:46:04,019
more and more we can add some of

1348
00:46:04,019 –> 00:46:04,920
this humanity

1349
00:46:05,219 –> 00:46:06,440
back into this situation,

1350
00:46:06,980 –> 00:46:09,059
the better the outcome. Mike, take us to

1351
00:46:09,059 –> 00:46:11,059
the last afternoon. Yeah. The last one is

1352
00:46:11,139 –> 00:46:14,324
we’ve really talked about it. It’s sensory sensitivity.

1353
00:46:14,385 –> 00:46:15,285
So in other words,

1354
00:46:16,065 –> 00:46:16,565
sounds,

1355
00:46:16,945 –> 00:46:17,445
lights.

1356
00:46:17,824 –> 00:46:19,344
You know, my family makes fun of me

1357
00:46:19,344 –> 00:46:21,105
because, like, someone slams a dish, and I’m

1358
00:46:21,105 –> 00:46:22,785
like, what the heck? You know, what’s going

1359
00:46:22,785 –> 00:46:25,125
on? Right? Like, there’s a lot of sensitivity

1360
00:46:25,425 –> 00:46:26,244
to external

1361
00:46:26,545 –> 00:46:28,724
stimulation, and that can be

1362
00:46:29,289 –> 00:46:32,569
data people talking, but it’s also just it’s

1363
00:46:32,569 –> 00:46:35,289
all sensory input things. Right? It’s all the

1364
00:46:35,289 –> 00:46:37,049
lights and sounds and all of that, and

1365
00:46:37,049 –> 00:46:37,549
so

1366
00:46:38,010 –> 00:46:40,809
that can certainly be good. It also, though,

1367
00:46:40,809 –> 00:46:43,609
can lend itself to being overwhelmed because, again,

1368
00:46:43,609 –> 00:46:45,925
like, you’re taking in so much information that

1369
00:46:45,925 –> 00:46:47,844
your brain is having to sift and sort

1370
00:46:47,844 –> 00:46:48,344
through.

1371
00:46:48,804 –> 00:46:51,125
And this one I find to be, like,

1372
00:46:51,125 –> 00:46:52,965
sometimes a difficult one for me. So I

1373
00:46:52,965 –> 00:46:54,164
had a I had a question on this.

1374
00:46:54,164 –> 00:46:55,684
I actually wrote it down, so I’m glad

1375
00:46:55,684 –> 00:46:57,204
we got here. Because I do. I think

1376
00:46:57,204 –> 00:46:59,045
this is a really important question to probably

1377
00:46:59,045 –> 00:46:59,784
end with.

1378
00:47:00,380 –> 00:47:02,480
So here’s what I’ve noticed, Mike, was

1379
00:47:03,019 –> 00:47:03,519
I

1380
00:47:03,820 –> 00:47:05,579
was highly sensitive. I I wanted to be

1381
00:47:05,579 –> 00:47:07,420
a firefighter when I was a little boy,

1382
00:47:07,420 –> 00:47:09,260
like, four. Well, at the parades and the

1383
00:47:09,260 –> 00:47:11,180
different things that they would honk the horns

1384
00:47:11,180 –> 00:47:12,160
and ends the sirens.

1385
00:47:12,485 –> 00:47:14,485
And I hated that part. And so, I

1386
00:47:14,485 –> 00:47:16,885
kinda hated myself because here’s all the other

1387
00:47:16,885 –> 00:47:18,885
kids, the sirens, they have no problem with

1388
00:47:18,885 –> 00:47:20,724
it. The horns, no problem with it. They’re

1389
00:47:20,724 –> 00:47:23,364
all clapping, the firefighters are throwing candy at

1390
00:47:23,364 –> 00:47:25,204
the kids at the parade. And I wanted

1391
00:47:25,204 –> 00:47:28,219
to be a firefighter so bad. And I

1392
00:47:28,219 –> 00:47:30,559
would watch, you know, my dad like edited

1393
00:47:30,699 –> 00:47:32,780
the Backdraft movie and cut out all the

1394
00:47:32,780 –> 00:47:34,699
adult pieces. It was like, I thought Backdraft

1395
00:47:34,699 –> 00:47:36,059
was like eighteen minutes long. And then when

1396
00:47:36,059 –> 00:47:37,579
I became an adult, I’m like, oh, it’s

1397
00:47:37,579 –> 00:47:39,839
actually two hours long. But I just love

1398
00:47:39,980 –> 00:47:40,480
Firefighter.

1399
00:47:40,940 –> 00:47:42,400
And so, I hated myself

1400
00:47:43,184 –> 00:47:44,704
for that because we would, we would see

1401
00:47:44,704 –> 00:47:45,824
it and I would love it. I’d be

1402
00:47:45,824 –> 00:47:47,744
clapping but as it got about a 100

1403
00:47:47,744 –> 00:47:48,945
yards away, I would always tell my mom,

1404
00:47:48,945 –> 00:47:49,985
hey, can we can we go in the

1405
00:47:49,985 –> 00:47:51,744
car? Can we go somewhere somewhere else until

1406
00:47:51,744 –> 00:47:52,565
it passes?

1407
00:47:52,945 –> 00:47:54,704
Karate, I had to quit karate on the

1408
00:47:54,704 –> 00:47:56,829
first day because they scream when they do

1409
00:47:56,829 –> 00:47:57,969
the punching stuff.

1410
00:47:58,510 –> 00:48:00,510
And then the yelling, I started crying and

1411
00:48:00,510 –> 00:48:02,670
I was so so I hated, Mike, I

1412
00:48:02,670 –> 00:48:03,170
hated

1413
00:48:03,469 –> 00:48:05,569
myself because everybody else got to do karate.

1414
00:48:05,789 –> 00:48:07,789
I’m not getting emotional thinking about it. Everybody

1415
00:48:07,789 –> 00:48:09,809
else got to be a firefighter

1416
00:48:10,349 –> 00:48:12,625
and I couldn’t handle it. And there was

1417
00:48:12,625 –> 00:48:14,785
tons of stuff like that. Tons of stuff

1418
00:48:14,785 –> 00:48:17,045
at church, there something that’s like broke

1419
00:48:17,505 –> 00:48:18,864
and I didn’t even break it, but I

1420
00:48:18,864 –> 00:48:20,305
was just scared that it broke because I

1421
00:48:20,305 –> 00:48:22,144
knew there was gonna be cleanup and problem.

1422
00:48:22,144 –> 00:48:23,825
And I was I was crying and I

1423
00:48:23,825 –> 00:48:24,485
was embarrassed.

1424
00:48:24,785 –> 00:48:26,224
None of my other friends some people were

1425
00:48:26,224 –> 00:48:28,920
laughing. And so, again, my pinata, we made

1426
00:48:28,920 –> 00:48:30,920
a pinata. I was too sad to hit

1427
00:48:30,920 –> 00:48:32,679
it and break it because I just didn’t

1428
00:48:32,679 –> 00:48:35,400
wanna beat this pig that we made because

1429
00:48:35,400 –> 00:48:37,000
it was so fun making it and to

1430
00:48:37,000 –> 00:48:38,840
hit it with a stick was just to

1431
00:48:38,840 –> 00:48:41,239
me was just sad. So my point of

1432
00:48:41,239 –> 00:48:44,015
all this, Mike, was for everybody listening, like,

1433
00:48:44,015 –> 00:48:46,655
I forgot I was highly sensitive because at

1434
00:48:46,655 –> 00:48:49,295
a certain point, I decided fuck this, fuck

1435
00:48:49,295 –> 00:48:51,535
that kid, I hate him, he’s never gonna

1436
00:48:51,535 –> 00:48:53,375
make it in this world, he’s such a

1437
00:48:53,375 –> 00:48:56,175
wussy. So I became somebody who was not

1438
00:48:56,175 –> 00:48:57,075
highly sensitive,

1439
00:48:57,549 –> 00:48:59,949
I thought. And so, I just wanted to

1440
00:48:59,949 –> 00:49:01,389
kinda end at this point. I would love

1441
00:49:01,389 –> 00:49:03,089
both you guys to speak on this because

1442
00:49:03,389 –> 00:49:05,809
it was not until literally four years ago

1443
00:49:06,190 –> 00:49:08,429
in my recovery where I started to discover

1444
00:49:08,429 –> 00:49:10,429
that I was highly sensitive. And so many

1445
00:49:10,429 –> 00:49:12,029
therapists were telling me wrong. I think you

1446
00:49:12,029 –> 00:49:14,114
should look into this. And then I remembered,

1447
00:49:14,255 –> 00:49:14,755
yeah,

1448
00:49:15,135 –> 00:49:18,015
before I hated myself and abandoned all of

1449
00:49:18,015 –> 00:49:19,795
that and hardened myself,

1450
00:49:20,414 –> 00:49:22,255
I was highly sensitive. So I would love

1451
00:49:22,255 –> 00:49:24,414
to speak to this. For the guys, can

1452
00:49:24,414 –> 00:49:26,909
you remember how sensitive you once were? And

1453
00:49:26,909 –> 00:49:28,190
then, you know, I think the last thing

1454
00:49:28,190 –> 00:49:29,389
I’d say before I turn the mic over

1455
00:49:29,389 –> 00:49:31,550
to you guys is it saddens me, Mike,

1456
00:49:31,550 –> 00:49:34,190
because I wonder how different my life would

1457
00:49:34,190 –> 00:49:37,550
be if I stayed highly sensitive and embraced

1458
00:49:37,550 –> 00:49:39,969
it. I wonder how different am I now?

1459
00:49:40,215 –> 00:49:41,755
How off course am I

1460
00:49:42,135 –> 00:49:43,575
compared to where I was supposed to be

1461
00:49:43,575 –> 00:49:45,095
as a highly sensitive person? How am I

1462
00:49:45,095 –> 00:49:47,095
squandering my unique abilities? Are there people who

1463
00:49:47,095 –> 00:49:48,855
need me, who I’m not serving because I’ve

1464
00:49:48,855 –> 00:49:51,335
hardened myself so much? I just it’s a

1465
00:49:51,335 –> 00:49:52,934
sensitive topic for me. But I just wanna

1466
00:49:52,934 –> 00:49:53,894
speak to that because I think a lot

1467
00:49:53,894 –> 00:49:55,859
of the guys listening, they’re not highly sensitive

1468
00:49:55,859 –> 00:49:58,420
anymore is what they think. The truth is

1469
00:49:58,420 –> 00:50:00,679
they still are. They still are. But they’ve

1470
00:50:00,900 –> 00:50:03,219
come to convince themselves, oh, anxiety, I don’t

1471
00:50:03,219 –> 00:50:04,980
get anxious anymore. Oh, angry, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1472
00:50:04,980 –> 00:50:06,019
I used to do that but I don’t

1473
00:50:06,019 –> 00:50:07,985
get angry. Right? They’ve killed this part of

1474
00:50:07,985 –> 00:50:09,344
them off. So I just love to kinda

1475
00:50:09,344 –> 00:50:10,785
end with that because I think killing it

1476
00:50:10,785 –> 00:50:12,545
off is a joke because I don’t think

1477
00:50:12,545 –> 00:50:13,824
you can kill it off and I think

1478
00:50:13,824 –> 00:50:15,445
it manifests itself in pathology,

1479
00:50:16,065 –> 00:50:16,565
addictions,

1480
00:50:17,105 –> 00:50:17,605
compulsivity,

1481
00:50:18,385 –> 00:50:19,905
self hatred. I I think the more we

1482
00:50:19,905 –> 00:50:21,824
fight it, it shows up in worse and

1483
00:50:21,824 –> 00:50:22,980
worse and worse way. So I’d love to

1484
00:50:22,980 –> 00:50:24,980
just kind of have both of you speak

1485
00:50:24,980 –> 00:50:26,900
to that for a second. Yeah. You act

1486
00:50:26,900 –> 00:50:28,500
out what you don’t work out. And so

1487
00:50:28,500 –> 00:50:30,659
if you go about trying to pretend because

1488
00:50:30,659 –> 00:50:32,820
it is a pretending thing that you’re not

1489
00:50:32,820 –> 00:50:35,724
highly sensitive, then you’re gonna have to act

1490
00:50:35,724 –> 00:50:37,964
that out some way because there’s gonna be

1491
00:50:37,964 –> 00:50:40,284
some type of energy that takes place as

1492
00:50:40,284 –> 00:50:41,425
a result of that collision.

1493
00:50:41,885 –> 00:50:43,405
I’m glad that we’re ending on this because,

1494
00:50:43,405 –> 00:50:45,324
you know, what I would want anyone listening

1495
00:50:45,324 –> 00:50:47,244
to this, if they took nothing, at least

1496
00:50:47,244 –> 00:50:49,500
from what I’ve said today, away from is

1497
00:50:49,820 –> 00:50:51,500
to embrace it. Because, you know, here’s the

1498
00:50:51,500 –> 00:50:53,579
thing, Roland. Like, if you knew that you

1499
00:50:53,579 –> 00:50:55,659
were highly sensitive, if you knew and embraced

1500
00:50:55,659 –> 00:50:57,420
that all along, then you just put in

1501
00:50:57,420 –> 00:50:59,500
the earplugs and become a firefighter. Mhmm. Right?

1502
00:50:59,500 –> 00:51:01,599
That’s what you do. Because when you accept

1503
00:51:02,344 –> 00:51:04,364
these things that are true of yourself,

1504
00:51:04,824 –> 00:51:06,204
then you can take appropriate

1505
00:51:06,505 –> 00:51:07,005
steps

1506
00:51:07,545 –> 00:51:10,204
to deal with the strengths and the weaknesses.

1507
00:51:10,664 –> 00:51:13,385
When you don’t accept, though, then you actually

1508
00:51:13,385 –> 00:51:15,989
don’t have steps that you can take, and

1509
00:51:15,989 –> 00:51:17,130
so you’re left

1510
00:51:17,510 –> 00:51:20,230
with not doing things that you totally could

1511
00:51:20,230 –> 00:51:22,650
have done. And that’s not to say anything

1512
00:51:22,710 –> 00:51:25,030
about career path. I think, Roland, you’re doing

1513
00:51:25,030 –> 00:51:25,530
exactly

1514
00:51:25,829 –> 00:51:28,070
what you should be doing. But it is

1515
00:51:28,070 –> 00:51:29,929
to say, I know for me,

1516
00:51:30,315 –> 00:51:31,775
the more I have accepted

1517
00:51:32,155 –> 00:51:33,135
the high sensing

1518
00:51:33,434 –> 00:51:33,934
traits,

1519
00:51:34,554 –> 00:51:37,454
then the more that’s given me the option

1520
00:51:37,994 –> 00:51:40,094
to take the steps I need to take

1521
00:51:40,234 –> 00:51:42,554
to deal with those. So I wear earplugs

1522
00:51:42,554 –> 00:51:44,155
when I need to wear earplugs. Right? And

1523
00:51:44,155 –> 00:51:46,589
then my world is much bigger than it

1524
00:51:46,589 –> 00:51:48,269
would have been if I hadn’t done that

1525
00:51:48,269 –> 00:51:49,869
because I think we have to create a

1526
00:51:49,869 –> 00:51:52,029
small world when we don’t accept all the

1527
00:51:52,029 –> 00:51:54,190
parts of ourselves. Yeah. That’s why I moved

1528
00:51:54,190 –> 00:51:56,269
to Sedona. I move I live and I

1529
00:51:56,269 –> 00:51:58,269
don’t have cell phone service out here. I

1530
00:51:58,269 –> 00:52:00,525
chose an environment that was still, that was

1531
00:52:00,605 –> 00:52:03,244
quiet, where I could be outside for basically

1532
00:52:03,244 –> 00:52:04,684
a 100% of the year in the High

1533
00:52:04,684 –> 00:52:06,924
Desert. And I did this intentionally because I’m

1534
00:52:06,924 –> 00:52:09,005
a sucker. I I when people are driving

1535
00:52:09,005 –> 00:52:11,324
Lambos and Bentleys, I feel like I need

1536
00:52:11,324 –> 00:52:12,764
to have them. When people are, you know,

1537
00:52:12,764 –> 00:52:14,684
so I chose a place where people don’t

1538
00:52:14,684 –> 00:52:17,119
flex and it’s quiet and you hike and

1539
00:52:17,119 –> 00:52:19,200
you enjoy the outdoors because to your point,

1540
00:52:19,200 –> 00:52:20,019
I had to

1541
00:52:20,800 –> 00:52:22,260
embrace my sensitivity.

1542
00:52:22,720 –> 00:52:24,480
Otherwise, I knew what would happen. If I

1543
00:52:24,480 –> 00:52:26,320
don’t embrace it, I fight it and I

1544
00:52:26,320 –> 00:52:27,059
go dorsal,

1545
00:52:27,375 –> 00:52:28,974
I act like I don’t care, I act

1546
00:52:28,974 –> 00:52:30,574
like I’m somebody I’m not and that guy

1547
00:52:30,574 –> 00:52:32,014
cheats on his wife a lot, right? So,

1548
00:52:32,014 –> 00:52:34,255
it’s like, okay, how do I be more

1549
00:52:34,255 –> 00:52:35,695
sensitive? Where do I need to live? What

1550
00:52:35,695 –> 00:52:36,735
kind of job do I need to do?

1551
00:52:36,735 –> 00:52:37,855
What kind of environment do I need to

1552
00:52:37,855 –> 00:52:39,775
create where I can be sensitive? I can

1553
00:52:39,775 –> 00:52:42,329
cry, I can express myself safely, where I

1554
00:52:42,329 –> 00:52:43,849
don’t have to pretend to be somebody I’m

1555
00:52:43,849 –> 00:52:45,450
not. Yeah. I love that, Mike. Yeah. It

1556
00:52:45,610 –> 00:52:47,550
because it is. The more I suppressed it,

1557
00:52:48,010 –> 00:52:50,329
the more I acted out. Yeah. Well said.

1558
00:52:50,329 –> 00:52:52,250
Jason, what’s your take on that? Yeah. I

1559
00:52:52,250 –> 00:52:53,849
mean, I would just echo what was said.

1560
00:52:53,849 –> 00:52:56,170
I feel like acceptance opens the door to

1561
00:52:56,170 –> 00:52:56,670
improvement.

1562
00:52:57,054 –> 00:52:58,815
So if we can accept that that’s how

1563
00:52:58,815 –> 00:53:00,815
we’re wired, we can improve and we can

1564
00:53:00,815 –> 00:53:02,815
develop some of that and we can maybe

1565
00:53:02,815 –> 00:53:04,414
sit in it a little bit longer. Right?

1566
00:53:04,414 –> 00:53:06,655
But we can build on what we’ve started

1567
00:53:06,655 –> 00:53:08,494
with. But I think if we refuse to

1568
00:53:08,494 –> 00:53:10,949
accept that, we’re just always running from it.

1569
00:53:10,949 –> 00:53:13,190
And that running over time causes a lot

1570
00:53:13,190 –> 00:53:15,590
of problems for ourself and for others. And

1571
00:53:15,590 –> 00:53:17,429
so the acceptance piece is just how do

1572
00:53:17,429 –> 00:53:19,510
I work with what I have. A really

1573
00:53:19,510 –> 00:53:21,670
practical example is sometimes I’ll work with couples

1574
00:53:21,670 –> 00:53:23,769
and and there’ll be high conflict and someone,

1575
00:53:23,855 –> 00:53:26,335
you know, has high HSP. And so what

1576
00:53:26,335 –> 00:53:28,014
they’ll do is they’ll say we should have

1577
00:53:28,014 –> 00:53:30,275
a really hard conversation at a loud restaurant.

1578
00:53:30,734 –> 00:53:32,174
What could go wrong? Right? So they’re like,

1579
00:53:32,174 –> 00:53:33,534
I really think we need to have this

1580
00:53:33,534 –> 00:53:36,335
emotionally loaded conversation, and we’re we’re gonna eat

1581
00:53:36,335 –> 00:53:38,469
at a restaurant where I can’t even hear

1582
00:53:38,469 –> 00:53:40,389
anything you’re saying, and there’s lots of clanging

1583
00:53:40,389 –> 00:53:40,889
around.

1584
00:53:41,349 –> 00:53:42,630
And you just say, hey. If you accept

1585
00:53:42,630 –> 00:53:43,989
that this is part of your life and

1586
00:53:43,989 –> 00:53:46,469
you’re sensitive to it, maybe a quieter place

1587
00:53:46,469 –> 00:53:48,309
is gonna be a good start. Mhmm. And

1588
00:53:48,309 –> 00:53:49,909
so I think then we start to, like

1589
00:53:49,909 –> 00:53:52,409
you said earlier, set ourself up for success

1590
00:53:52,844 –> 00:53:54,764
because we’re able to be honest about what

1591
00:53:54,764 –> 00:53:55,425
we need

1592
00:53:55,804 –> 00:53:58,045
instead of running from it. Mhmm. Yeah. Well,

1593
00:53:58,045 –> 00:53:59,724
it reminds me of, like, if we ever

1594
00:53:59,724 –> 00:54:02,045
have something to discuss in public, my wife’s

1595
00:54:02,045 –> 00:54:03,565
always like, why are you being so weird?

1596
00:54:03,565 –> 00:54:05,085
Just fucking, like, look at me and talk

1597
00:54:05,085 –> 00:54:07,030
to me. And I’m just like, why are

1598
00:54:07,030 –> 00:54:08,869
we doing my high sensitivity is like, hey,

1599
00:54:08,869 –> 00:54:10,309
we can’t be doing this here. I don’t

1600
00:54:10,309 –> 00:54:13,109
like I can’t be around other people and

1601
00:54:13,109 –> 00:54:15,349
deal with conflict. It’s just not my system

1602
00:54:15,349 –> 00:54:16,869
just won’t allow for it. So again, I

1603
00:54:16,869 –> 00:54:18,550
I appreciate you bringing that up, Jason, because

1604
00:54:18,550 –> 00:54:20,250
it is coming coming back to

1605
00:54:20,565 –> 00:54:22,724
embrace this thing, build an environment, you know,

1606
00:54:22,724 –> 00:54:24,405
you and your partner, like, talk about this.

1607
00:54:24,405 –> 00:54:26,405
This is something this this shit’s important, you

1608
00:54:26,405 –> 00:54:28,344
know, because, again, she’s gonna get a fraction

1609
00:54:28,405 –> 00:54:30,405
of you. And then for the highly sensitive

1610
00:54:30,405 –> 00:54:32,324
person, you’re gonna be a fraction of what

1611
00:54:32,324 –> 00:54:34,710
you could be. So, it kinda sounds like

1612
00:54:34,710 –> 00:54:36,869
your book, Jason. On that note, if people

1613
00:54:36,869 –> 00:54:38,469
wanna get a hold of you two guys,

1614
00:54:38,469 –> 00:54:38,969
Mike,

1615
00:54:39,269 –> 00:54:41,929
what kind of information can they do to

1616
00:54:42,390 –> 00:54:44,630
learn more about this? And then, Jason, after

1617
00:54:44,630 –> 00:54:46,230
that, how can they learn more about how

1618
00:54:46,230 –> 00:54:47,929
you guys do work with people?

1619
00:54:48,355 –> 00:54:50,855
You can find me at pathesia workshops

1620
00:54:51,155 –> 00:54:53,075
dot org. Easy to look me up. You

1621
00:54:53,075 –> 00:54:55,155
can find my email there. You’re welcome to

1622
00:54:55,155 –> 00:54:56,934
reach out and get a hold of me.

1623
00:54:57,075 –> 00:54:59,315
Yeah. A lot of ways, but that’s probably

1624
00:54:59,315 –> 00:54:59,969
the best.

1625
00:55:00,369 –> 00:55:01,889
Jason, how about you? Yeah. You can learn

1626
00:55:01,889 –> 00:55:03,969
about me at jason v r dot com

1627
00:55:03,969 –> 00:55:06,869
or on socials at jason dot van ruler,

1628
00:55:07,010 –> 00:55:08,369
where we, you know and Mike and I

1629
00:55:08,369 –> 00:55:10,050
are doing a bunch of content on this.

1630
00:55:10,050 –> 00:55:11,969
Are actually trying to help people. How do

1631
00:55:11,969 –> 00:55:13,065
we accept it? How do we work through

1632
00:55:13,065 –> 00:55:14,824
it? And so we’re just honored to be

1633
00:55:14,824 –> 00:55:16,425
part of this show, Roland, and and just

1634
00:55:16,425 –> 00:55:17,945
love that you’re talking about it for people

1635
00:55:17,945 –> 00:55:19,385
because Love it. I know it’s helping a

1636
00:55:19,385 –> 00:55:21,625
lot of people to have this discussion. Yeah.

1637
00:55:21,625 –> 00:55:23,144
I’ll end with this. You know, they say

1638
00:55:23,184 –> 00:55:25,304
I think Elaine says it’s 18% of the

1639
00:55:25,304 –> 00:55:28,650
population is highly sensitive. I found another study

1640
00:55:28,650 –> 00:55:29,849
from I’ll send it to you guys. Can’t

1641
00:55:29,849 –> 00:55:31,210
remember if it’s a stamp, but they found

1642
00:55:31,210 –> 00:55:33,449
it was like ninety eight percent of highly

1643
00:55:33,449 –> 00:55:34,510
successful people

1644
00:55:34,889 –> 00:55:36,650
are highly sensitive. So like, yes, it’s a

1645
00:55:36,650 –> 00:55:38,329
smaller portion of the population, but then when

1646
00:55:38,329 –> 00:55:41,949
you go into leaders, entrepreneurs, influencers, change makers,

1647
00:55:42,174 –> 00:55:43,694
almost all of them are highly sensitive. And

1648
00:55:43,694 –> 00:55:45,214
I just wanted to end on that note

1649
00:55:45,214 –> 00:55:47,454
too. Don’t run from this. There’s nothing shameful

1650
00:55:47,454 –> 00:55:49,614
about it. The tough guy thing, all that

1651
00:55:49,614 –> 00:55:51,375
BS. I would say tough guys are gonna

1652
00:55:51,375 –> 00:55:54,094
change less people and leave a way shittier

1653
00:55:54,094 –> 00:55:55,523
legacy than the people who embrace their sensitivity.

1654
00:55:55,569 –> 00:55:56,364
So you’re gonna

1655
00:55:57,769 –> 00:55:59,609
leave a kick ass legacy and people are

1656
00:55:59,609 –> 00:56:01,530
gonna remember you. Yeah. Being a tough guy

1657
00:56:01,530 –> 00:56:03,769
who doesn’t feel, there’s nothing remarkable about that

1658
00:56:03,769 –> 00:56:06,090
guy. So this was awesome, you guys. Killer

1659
00:56:06,090 –> 00:56:08,349
confidence. Thanks, Roland. It’s great. Thanks so much.

1660
00:56:09,929 –> 00:56:12,074
Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

1661
00:56:12,074 –> 00:56:13,914
are a high achiever with a sex addiction

1662
00:56:13,914 –> 00:56:15,594
and you’re looking for a recovery group full

1663
00:56:15,594 –> 00:56:18,715
of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

1664
00:56:18,715 –> 00:56:21,594
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1665
00:56:21,594 –> 00:56:24,410
using four day retreats, weekly group calls, and

1666
00:56:24,410 –> 00:56:27,050
daily accountability check ins. If you wanna achieve

1667
00:56:27,050 –> 00:56:29,450
long term sobriety and save your marriage, go

1668
00:56:29,450 –> 00:56:31,070
to our website and fill out our application.

1669
00:56:31,369 –> 00:56:33,849
If you enjoyed this episode, please pass it

1670
00:56:33,849 –> 00:56:35,450
along to a friend in recovery who would

1671
00:56:35,450 –> 00:56:37,450
benefit from listening. It is my mission to

1672
00:56:37,450 –> 00:56:39,222
get this information out to as many high

1673
00:56:39,222 –> 00:56:41,462
achievers as possible, and I can’t do it

1674
00:56:41,462 –> 00:56:42,442
without your help.