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A lot of them have really great lives,

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you know, they they make great money, they're

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extremely involved in their community, their wives are

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just stunningly beautiful, intelligent, they have they have

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these wonderful families, right? So they don't really

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wanna escape their life, life. They love their

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life. The challenge is they're addicted to making

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their life better.

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You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

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for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

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recovery principles specifically to the mindset of the

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high achiever. I'm your host, Roland Cochran, founder

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of The Successful Addict, a recovery group for

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high achieving men struggling with sex and porn

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addiction. For more information about joining our group

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or attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

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Have you ever noticed how some acting out

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behaviors are easier to stop than others?

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Right? Some right when you get caught and

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you get into recovery, some behaviors just go

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away. With others, kind of stick around. Right?

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There's that temptation, that constant kind of nagging

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in the brain telling, go do it. Go

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do it. How nice would this be? Right?

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And maybe you're still sober. Right? Maybe you're

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not acting on those things. But the question

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just becomes, how long until you do? Right?

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And, again, that's why I think we see

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such a high level of relapse in this

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space is guys don't get into great recovery,

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and they think that, oh, just because I'm

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not acting out now

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doesn't necessarily mean you're not gonna act out

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three years from now, four years from now,

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five years from now. And the reason for

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this is each acting out behavior has the

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potential

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to be driven

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by a different why, a different cause, a

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different pathology.

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While one activity might be an escapist, right?

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It might be a coping mechanism, right? A

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dopaminergic

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release.

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On the other hand, you might have other

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acting out behaviors that are around getting attention,

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validation, right? Maybe you're seeking novelty. So, we're

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gonna talk about all these different things and

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the different whys and drivers behind the different

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men's addictions who have come through my program

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as a way to kind of help you

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examine

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your acting out behaviors.

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Because I do, I think a lot of

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men try to take one treatment method and

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apply it to every single acting out behavior.

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And that's extremely naive because I think what

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you'll find is because each one kind of

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started at a different age and a different

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time in your life,

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each one has the potential to be driven

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by a different driver with a different objective.

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And I'm gonna talk about each one just

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to kind of help you wrap your head

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around it. I'm not gonna go into too

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crazy detail just because this podcast would be

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hours and hours long, but I'm just gonna

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bring you some examples so that you can

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wrap your head around. Okay, what is driving

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this specific behavior and is another acting out

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behavior driven by another or different reason, different

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cause? So, let's start with pornography.

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With pornography,

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a lot of men, they're consuming pornography and

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when you're looking at something through the eyes,

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an image, a video, it's primarily dopaminergic. So,

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I would say pornography is probably one of,

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I'm not going to say easy, but I

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would say it's definitely one of the more

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simple

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acting out behaviors

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to examine in the sense that because you're

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consuming it through the eyes, it's releasing dopamine

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in the brain. And so what we know

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about dopamine is that it hijacks our focus

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and motivation towards whatever the thing is that

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we're paying attention to. So guys will consume

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pornography

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to hijack their attention away from something else,

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right? And so that's why it's commonly spoken

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about as a coping mechanism, right? I'm going

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to go turn to porn

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or some visual image

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to captivate my attention over here so that

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I don't have to pay attention to any

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kind of unwanted feelings, unwanted thoughts. Maybe you

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have a long to do list and it's

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stressing you out and you're procrastinating.

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So, you'll go and do something dopaminergic.

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And during that time, especially with something like

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sex and pornography, it's extremely captivating. So, your

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attention goes all the way over there and

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you forget about your life, right? So, pornography

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is largely an escape. It's a release, it's

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a coping mechanism to avoid things, right? Most

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people who are If you're consuming or become

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addicted to a dopaminergic behavior, it's to escape,

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right? You're trying to vacate your life, leave

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and ignore and avoid a situation.

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But again, I think the field, the sextension

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field tends to kind of apply that same

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principle to all acting out behaviors. And I

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think that's a little bit naive. I think

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it's naive to think that the only reason

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men would engage in a sexual behavior outside

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of their marriage is because they're emotionally regulating

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with an injury disorder and childhood trauma. I

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think that that can happen. But I think

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that when we look at sex, sex appeal

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and sexual attraction, you know, these are very

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biological things. These are human desires inside of

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everyone, right? Not just men with compulsive sexual

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behavior. I mean, everybody has the desire for

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sex. Everybody has the desire to be attracted

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to others and have other people be attracted

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to them, right? So, to assume that the

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only driver is through addictive escapism, I think

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is a bit naive, and I think it

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gets guys into trouble, right? Because we see

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so many men relapsing, right? More men are

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relapsing than are not relapsing, right? It's a

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relapsing, right? More men are relapsing than are

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not relapsing, right? It's only thirty four percent

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of men are able to obtain

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long term recovery without relapse. So, when we

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look at the majority of men who are

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relapsing inside a five years, I believe it's

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happening because they're trying to apply this one

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treatment method to all of their acting out

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behaviors.

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So, let's look at affairs, right? So, pornography

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being escapism

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and avoiding one's life, right? So, more of

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a coping strategy. Let's look at affairs. What

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would drive a man to compulsively

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use women through emotional affairs or physical affairs?

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So, yes, it could be through dopamine. And

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I will say this, an emotional affair is

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extremely dopaminergic,

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right? Hiding an affair, you have the constant

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hiding, which can last all day long, right?

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And that provides you with dopamine because you're

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putting your focus and your attention on hiding

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this from your partner. But also there's this

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constant wondering and wanting, right? That's you're always

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looking at your phone and checking, oh, did

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she text me yet? Did she send me

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a picture? What should I text her? What's

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she gonna say back? If I don't text

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her, is she gonna text first? Right? There's

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this little game that you play with yourself.

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So it can be dopaminergic,

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but it also could be around unmet human

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needs, right? So, maybe you feel unappreciated,

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you feel un respected, you don't feel like

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your family is appreciating all of your hard

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work, maybe your partner you don't feel like

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is appreciating you, maybe you don't feel

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emotionally or physically connected. Right? Maybe it's crazy

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times at home and you and your partner

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have been less connected. So, then there's gonna

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be this desire to connect. And guys can

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go and use other women to fill that

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void. Right? So, it's less of an addiction

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then at that point and more of

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a coping strategy

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to fill this unmet human need in your

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life. Another one could just be novelty, right?

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A lot of sex being a desire and

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being a peak experience, right? Having these novel

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sexual experiences with new people

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can result in a high. And it's really

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hard for betrayed partners

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to

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kind of see past that, right? When they

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see it as a dopaminergic

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addiction,

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a maladaptive coping strategy, escapism,

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It looks like an illness, right? You're an

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addict. And so, for the partners, it's a

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lot easier to kind of see past that.

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The problem that I have with that is

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I think too many men are trying to

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be addicts

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who aren't addicts, but they're kind of forced

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to be an addict because the only reason

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their wife staying with them is because they're

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an addict. Here's the challenge with that though

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is if you're only seeking out addiction treatment

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and not getting treatment for some of your

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maladaptive behaviors around your unmet human needs, your

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addiction to novelty and novel sexual experiences,

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your reliance on women to give you attention

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validation,

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to feel a lot of men in my

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group, their primary addiction is not sex and

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porn. Their primary addiction is attention, validation.

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They wanna be seen, lusted after. They want

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to feel desired. Right? They wanna feel like

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the most superior man in the room, the

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most wanted man in the room. Right? So,

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that's their primary addiction. So, they're constantly seeking

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out these various experiences

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to validate those stories. Right? Oh, if I

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can go get her, if I'm gonna I'll

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go flirt I'm not gonna sleep with her,

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but I'm gonna go flirt with her. And

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if she gives me her attention, then I'll

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know, well, I must be the most attractive

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man in the room because, you know, she's

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extremely attractive and there's all these guys here

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and I'm the one that was able to

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win her attention. Right?

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So again, it's starting

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to become more

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compulsive,

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more maladaptive and harmful behavior, but less addictive

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in that case. Right? If a guy's only

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doing this two, three times a year, is

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he an addict? Same thing with an alcoholic,

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right? If an alcoholic is only drinking to

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drunkenness

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five, six times a year at parties and

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weddings, is he an alcoholic?

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Right? And so again, the reason I'm bringing

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this up is, as we start examining these

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different acting out pathways,

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each one might need a different treatment strategy

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depending on what's driving it. So, we've gone

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through pornography, we looked at emotional affairs. Let's

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look at like paid sex. So, what are

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some of the drivers behind paid sex? Massage

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parlors,

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prostitution,

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going to some online platform where you're paying

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women for content and paying women for photos,

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right? That's becoming more and more popular these

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days. What's the driver behind these? Again, it

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can be dopamine, right? It could be this,

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you know, Hey, I'm engaging in this ritual

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to escape my life. It could. But I

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find with a lot of the guys in

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my program, because a lot of my guys

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are very successful business owners, entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors,

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surgeons, a lot of them have really great

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lives. You know, they make great money. They're

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extremely involved in their community.

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Their wives are just stunningly beautiful, intelligent. They

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have these wonderful families. Right? So, they don't

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really wanna escape their life. They love their

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life. The challenge is they're addicted to making

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their life better. Right? They always want more.

265
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Right? It's kind of the condition of high

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achieving men. How can I one up what

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I did last week? Right? And then how

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do I one up that again and again

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and again? It's always more and more and

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more. Well, the challenge with this is

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more doesn't just stay with cars, wristwatches,

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investing, you know, money, houses, vacations.

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More can venture into anything. If more is

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better and that's your belief, then more attention's

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better, more validation's better, more novelty's better. I

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think a lot of these guys, they get

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into that. And so, why paid sex?

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Well, it's a way that they can control

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getting more.

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Affairs

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are challenging because there's a higher likelihood of

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getting caught, right? You have to communicate

283
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with these people on a regular basis. Right?

284
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And so you're constantly putting yourself at risk

285
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of getting caught. And again, a lot of

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these guys love their wives. They really do.

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They love their families. They don't want to

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explode their family, but they have this insatiable

289
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desire for

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more attention, more novelty. They wanna feel wanted.

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They wanna feel lusted after. They need more,

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more, more, more, more. And unfortunately, I know

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this sounds so horrible, but their wife's not

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enough.

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Right? Your wife, you're sleeping with her every

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single night. Right? She's in your bed every

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night. There's nothing novel about it. I'm sorry.

298
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Just, you know, the novelty has worn off.

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Right? So, if you have become addicted to

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the novelty

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of sexual experiences or from attention, then you're

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gonna seek that. And the challenge with that

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is no women's going to be enough. You

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constantly need a new woman almost every single

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day, right? Because you know, novelty fades. So,

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novelty can be a piece that I see

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00:11:00,029 --> 00:11:02,269
men who are engaging in paid sex. The

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other thing I can see is, there is

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an element of

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control and deception, right? So, it sounds insane,

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but there are men who like being bad.

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They like having a secret. They like hiding

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something. It gives them a sense of control.

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It gives them a sense of

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power,

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secrecy. They enjoy having complete control of how

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they're seen, how they're looked at. These men

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who typically have control issues with this, they're

319
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really into image management as well, right? So,

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they're constantly trying to enhance their image. They're

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buying certain cars, wearing certain clothes. They're hyper

322
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vigilant and aware of how they act and

323
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what they say,

324
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their job title, the neighborhoods they live in,

325
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the schools their kids go to, right? So

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they're trying to control and manipulate all these

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aspects of their life. And then when they

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discover paid sex, it's like, wow. Okay. Hey,

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I can with the exchange of money, I

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can choose the time, location, and date to

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have this experience. Right? And like I said,

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some men, you know, they do. They love

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having a secret. They get this little rush

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of hiding something. So, my point is, if

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we look at all this stuff and again,

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I could go on and on and on

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for hours with this because there really is.

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You know, the thing with process addiction

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is you're gonna see a wide variety of

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brain processes that these men have become compulsive

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00:12:13,194 --> 00:12:15,659
around. Why? Because everybody had different parents. Everybody

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had different life experiences. Everybody grew up in

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00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:19,820
a different location because all of our lives

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were so wildly different. All of us find

345
00:12:22,139 --> 00:12:25,100
value in different things. Right? I love attention

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00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:26,860
and validation. That's my that is my big

347
00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,335
I love being seen in unique ways. That

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00:12:29,335 --> 00:12:31,735
is my personal addiction. But if you talk

349
00:12:31,735 --> 00:12:33,254
to another guy, he might not have that

350
00:12:33,254 --> 00:12:35,335
at all. Right? He wants women to think

351
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that he's the best they've ever had. Right?

352
00:12:37,495 --> 00:12:40,154
Oh, I've never had a better orgasm than

353
00:12:40,215 --> 00:12:42,629
from you. Right? I really wish that you

354
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:44,309
weren't married so you could be my husband.

355
00:12:44,309 --> 00:12:46,389
I really their goal is to make every

356
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woman think that he was the best. Right?

357
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:49,830
He was the one that got away. His

358
00:12:49,830 --> 00:12:52,230
primary addiction is, I want all these women

359
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to want me to be their husband. So

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it could be that. I mean, like I

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00:12:55,154 --> 00:12:57,875
said, it just there's this huge variety. Some

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guys go after married women. Some guys, to

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00:13:00,434 --> 00:13:02,455
them, they're on this superiority

364
00:13:03,154 --> 00:13:03,654
complex.

365
00:13:04,034 --> 00:13:06,115
They wanna be elite. And so one of

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00:13:06,115 --> 00:13:08,514
their best ways to validate how elite they

367
00:13:08,514 --> 00:13:10,539
are is, can I get a married woman

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00:13:10,539 --> 00:13:13,259
who's never cheated before to cheat with me?

369
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Right? To risk losing her family, her marriage,

370
00:13:15,419 --> 00:13:17,179
her whole life. Can I get her to

371
00:13:17,179 --> 00:13:19,500
take that chance on me? Because then that,

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you know, in his delusional

373
00:13:21,019 --> 00:13:23,245
brain, that would indicate that if she's gonna

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give up everything, her blessed life for you,

375
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then you must be better than her blessed

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00:13:29,084 --> 00:13:31,164
life, right? Which would again, give you this

377
00:13:31,164 --> 00:13:33,644
high of superiority. I'm better than her husband.

378
00:13:33,644 --> 00:13:35,620
I'm better than her life, right? I'm worth

379
00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:37,700
risking it all. So, my point of sharing

380
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,039
all of this is two things. One,

381
00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:42,419
have you really looked at each acting out

382
00:13:42,419 --> 00:13:44,580
behavior separately, right? If you engaged in paid

383
00:13:44,580 --> 00:13:45,860
sex, did you look at what you're getting

384
00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:48,019
out of that? If you have multiple different

385
00:13:48,019 --> 00:13:49,000
paid sex avenues,

386
00:13:49,345 --> 00:13:51,345
right? If you have prostitutes over here, massage

387
00:13:51,345 --> 00:13:53,764
parlors over there, maybe you're paying for content,

388
00:13:54,065 --> 00:13:55,664
look at each of those because each one

389
00:13:55,664 --> 00:13:57,764
of those could even have a different driver

390
00:13:58,225 --> 00:14:00,144
and need a different treatment. And then we

391
00:14:00,144 --> 00:14:01,985
go to affairs. What are you getting out

392
00:14:01,985 --> 00:14:03,585
of that? If you're engaging in affairs, are

393
00:14:03,585 --> 00:14:05,529
you flirting with women? And then we go

394
00:14:05,529 --> 00:14:06,889
to pornography. What are you getting out of

395
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:09,289
pornography? My point is, you need to see

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00:14:09,289 --> 00:14:11,850
what each acting out behavior is giving you

397
00:14:11,850 --> 00:14:14,410
because each one might need a unique treatment.

398
00:14:14,410 --> 00:14:16,410
And if you're not doing that, again, I

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00:14:16,410 --> 00:14:17,769
I think you're putting yourself at a high

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00:14:17,769 --> 00:14:18,404
risk of relapse.

401
00:14:19,685 --> 00:14:21,845
Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

402
00:14:21,845 --> 00:14:23,605
are a high achiever of the sex addiction

403
00:14:23,605 --> 00:14:25,365
and you're looking for a recovery group full

404
00:14:25,365 --> 00:14:28,485
of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

405
00:14:28,485 --> 00:14:31,285
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

406
00:14:31,285 --> 00:14:32,585
using four day retreats,

407
00:14:33,019 --> 00:14:35,759
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

408
00:14:35,820 --> 00:14:37,899
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

409
00:14:37,899 --> 00:14:39,820
save your marriage, go to our website and

410
00:14:39,820 --> 00:14:42,139
fill out our application. If you enjoyed this

411
00:14:42,139 --> 00:14:44,379
episode, please pass it along to a friend

412
00:14:44,379 --> 00:14:46,379
in recovery who would benefit from listening. It

413
00:14:46,379 --> 00:14:48,168
is my mission to get this information out

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00:14:48,168 --> 00:14:50,568
to as many high achievers as possible, and

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00:14:50,568 --> 00:14:52,108
I can't do it without your help.