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Marital infidelity is gotta be one of the

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hardest things couples can recover from. I mean,

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the the lack of trust, the lack of

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safety, the name calling, right? The stress, the

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crying, the tears, the anger, the frustration

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on both halves, right? You know, in the

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beginning, you know, it's the betrayed partner whose

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world's been flipped upside down. But, you know,

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as time goes on, you know, these guys,

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you know, the the the relationship is just

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hard to be in. Right? There's no trust,

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there's no safety, there's, there's there's arguing, you

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know, it it doesn't look anything like it

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did when you guys met. It is so

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hard. It's so hard. And there's always this

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question really on both sides, you know, the

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cheating partner and the betrayed partner. Why be

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married in the place? Why even be in

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a relationship? Is it worth it? Right? Then

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if this relationship doesn't work out, am am

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I just gonna get betrayed and lied to

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again in the next relationship? Right? It's a

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question that comes up quite a bit after

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all of this is, you know, do I

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even wanna be married? Will I get married

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again? Well, in this podcast, we talk about

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marriage.

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Marriage, why people do it, why people put

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themselves in these very difficult situations? Because marriage

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is not easy. And my guest I'm bringing

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with you today has one of the top

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marriage podcasts

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on all podcast platforms. And what Corey is

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gonna talk about today is he's gonna take

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all of his wisdom from everything that he's

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gathered over all the years and bring it

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into the betrayal, trauma, and sex addiction context.

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You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

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for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

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recovery principles

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specifically to the mindset of the high achiever.

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I'm your host, Roland Cochran, founder of The

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Successful Addict, a recovery group for high achieving

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men struggling with sex and porn addiction. For

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more information about joining our group or attending

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our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

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Hello everybody. I am here with doctor Corey

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Allen. Corey

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has a kick ass podcast.

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Sexy Marriage Radio, isn't that isn't that the

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proper title of it? Yep. Yep. And, dude,

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I,

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I was on your show and I knew

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it was an honor, mainly because I disliked

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you as a human being. I thought you

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were there's just, you know, there's just a

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lot of bad help out there and bad

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advice. And so when I meet somebody who

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cares and actually has the brains to give

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people good advice,

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I I I just love hanging around those

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people. I would come to find out later,

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dude, your podcast is a big deal, man.

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Good for you. I was I was looking

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it up and it was like, holy smokes.

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This is, this is this podcast has a

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lot of, listeners. How long have you been

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doing it?

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So let's see. The week tomorrow's episode,

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as we're recording this, is 07/2021.

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So Hey. Thirteen

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years. Yeah. Over fourteen years.

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And just so everybody knows, it is not

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a sex addiction.

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It is a it is largely a marriage,

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relationship podcast. That's really what it is.

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And so just so you guys know, it's,

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when you go over there and listen to

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it, which a lot not a lot of

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you are,

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it is gonna be a relationship podcast, not

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a

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betrayal,

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sexual betrayal, infidelity, sex addiction, porn addiction. Yeah.

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We've covered we've covered that many a time

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because we go anywhere relationships go, which that

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is an aspect of relationship and dynamics for

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certain. Yeah. And so so just as everybody

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knows, it's a but I but I like

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it because,

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your I vouch, you know, for everybody listening,

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I vouch for Corey and his podcast. He's

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he's a brilliant guy. He vets he was

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very, you know, when him and I met,

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he was very,

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you know, very strict about, hey. This is

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what's gonna go. And if you're gonna be

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on my show, you're in honor of my

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audience in this way. So I vouch for

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him and,

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guess an information that he provides. So let's

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dive into the topic today, which is, I

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think this is a cool topic because, there's

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a lot of my listeners who are very

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early on in their addiction,

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process, but I think this this topic is

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still gonna be applicable to the people who

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are still in crisis.

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But the guys who are later, you know,

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post, you know, a year out, two years

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out, three years out, you're really gonna resonate

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with this topic. And

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it's the idea, like, why be married at

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all? You know? It's and I think a

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lot of us don't really

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guess that when we're in a

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functional happy marriage.

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But, Corey,

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like, what about now? Like, so I've sexually

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betrayed my wife.

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Here we are. I've blown her trust out

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of the water.

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I've lied to her multiple times. Instead of

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getting immediately sober, I still you know, there

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was some trickling out of some truth. You

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know, I I just royally screwed that up.

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Right? A lot of guys can resonate with

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so now here we are. The marriage has,

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it looks different.

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Looks

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different.

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You know, at the beginning phase, she's got

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two feet out. Now with with time, she

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starts to get one foot back in and

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then eventually, once we enter phase three, she

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gets two feet back in and we are

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we're committed.

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But, again, just because she has committed to

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the idea of giving me a chance and

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seeing if we can heal,

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that does not mean the marriage is in

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good shape. I would say it's I would

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say phase two is almost

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is just as hard, if not harder than

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phase one because you start

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feeling a lot more,

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of the sadness rather than her rage. But

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my point of all of this is,

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Corey, why be married at all? Like, that,

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you know, that that question crosses probably both

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the men and the women, you know, the

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betrayed partners and the cheater.

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Like, here we are in this in this

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disastrous relationship where I don't even trust my

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husband. And if you're the husband, I'm in

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a relationship where I'm not trusted.

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Gosh. There's there's moments where you start to

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think, you know, should I just walk away

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from this whole thing and and be single?

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Well,

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and foremost, I think there's an element of

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recognizing

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we're always in relationships.

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Always

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in a relationship of some kind, of some

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shape, of some form. I mean, you and

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I have a relationship now, Roland. We've met

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each other three times now. So that's a

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relationship.

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So it's it's an element of I think

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it's a foundational component of us as people

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is

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is we are born in relational

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beings.

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That's that's the way it goes. Like, I

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think one of the phrases I used came

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came across years ago was the idea of

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we were,

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created in togetherness, born into separateness, and constantly

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trying to get back to togetherness.

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And and that's the way it goes. And

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so I think as part of our DNA,

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marriage holds a different value to me of

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importance

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because of the design of it. I think

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marriage is designed to help us,

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grow up, period. That's the only reason it

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exists. It's not happily ever after.

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It's not the the only place I can

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have sex. I mean, because if if I've

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got a sex addiction, you know you can

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have sex anywhere, everywhere, whatever,

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any point, but it exposes things in us

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that we don't find any other relationships

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that will do the that have the pressure

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to do that.

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So,

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I think of it through this lens that

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if marriage is designed to help me grow

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up, it makes me a better me by

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exposing me to me so that your question

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of why even be in a relationship.

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Well, I'm always in a relationship if for

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nothing else than with myself.

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Mhmm. And I need to take into account

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that because

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even the phraseology of how you set this

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up, Roland, was

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all contingent on the betrayed spouse, the wife.

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She's two feet out. Now she's one foot

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in, and now she's both feet in. Well,

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where is his feet? Mhmm.

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On the whole thing, has he ever been

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both feet in?

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Right? Is he one foot, both feet out

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in? You know? So it's an element of

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we sell ourselves short by not recognizing

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my culpability

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in everything that goes on in life,

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and rather than thinking of it as I

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I do this with my clients

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when,

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someone comes in and they've been betrayed. And

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the betrayed spouse will say inevitably, how could

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you do that to me? And it's like,

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no. They didn't do anything to you.

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You you weren't there. You're collateral damage.

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It's it's incredibly rough. It's a different path,

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and it's and it's an honored one, invalid

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one.

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But what what you really need to be

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asking yourself, betrayed spouse, is

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how do you wanna be in a relationship

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with somebody that would do that to themselves?

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Mhmm.

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Because now you're starting to look at who

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is this person I'm actually with. And and

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if I ask myself that

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as one that's gone down a betrayed journey,

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I was the betrayer

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on an emotional affair level and a pornography

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level. Mhmm. And so

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if I when I ask myself, wait a

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I I'm capable of doing this to myself.

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What does that say about my relationship and

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how I live with myself here?

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I have a different way to start in

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engaging in my world

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by taking on myself better

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and then having a relationship that

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gets the benefits of that. Mhmm. Because, you

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know, you you you you and I have

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talked a bunch about the the addictive

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world out there and the help world and

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how a lot of it can become this.

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Well, how do I just maintain a good

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relationship? What do I do to act right,

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quote, unquote? And that's the worst advice there

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is on how do I act right.

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None of us ever do,

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just to varying degrees.

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So

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so it's it's really starting to grow myself

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up into being somebody

267
00:09:13,214 --> 00:09:15,454
I would wanna be in a relationship with.

268
00:09:15,454 --> 00:09:15,954
Mhmm.

269
00:09:16,254 --> 00:09:17,855
And that's always honor,

270
00:09:18,334 --> 00:09:19,794
driven by character,

271
00:09:20,334 --> 00:09:20,834
integrity,

272
00:09:21,375 --> 00:09:23,554
and living in line with my values.

273
00:09:23,934 --> 00:09:26,495
Because when I do that, I now then

274
00:09:26,495 --> 00:09:27,714
become trustworthy.

275
00:09:28,179 --> 00:09:28,679
Mhmm.

276
00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:31,460
And I become somebody that can be seen

277
00:09:31,460 --> 00:09:32,360
as consistent

278
00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:35,059
and engaged. And then when I'm not and

279
00:09:35,059 --> 00:09:37,000
I'm out of line with my character,

280
00:09:37,379 --> 00:09:39,540
I own it, and I get back in

281
00:09:39,540 --> 00:09:41,300
line. Because we all do it on micro

282
00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:43,664
levels. Right. But with what your mission is

283
00:09:43,664 --> 00:09:45,745
on major levels that where we do this,

284
00:09:45,745 --> 00:09:47,044
where it's a huge incongruence.

285
00:09:47,424 --> 00:09:49,684
And we all have them, and so

286
00:09:50,065 --> 00:09:50,565
relationships

287
00:09:51,024 --> 00:09:52,565
expose that in us.

288
00:09:53,184 --> 00:09:54,945
And then I have a chance to really

289
00:09:54,945 --> 00:09:56,404
become a better person.

290
00:09:56,709 --> 00:09:58,470
Because the other thing I love about marriage

291
00:09:58,470 --> 00:10:00,309
is it takes me places I can't go

292
00:10:00,309 --> 00:10:02,490
on my own. Mhmm. Mhmm.

293
00:10:02,950 --> 00:10:04,490
It's a it's it's

294
00:10:05,110 --> 00:10:06,389
the thing that I was thinking about that

295
00:10:06,389 --> 00:10:07,769
as you were talking was,

296
00:10:08,709 --> 00:10:09,769
so I've been divorced,

297
00:10:10,774 --> 00:10:12,615
twice before my marriage now, and I'm a

298
00:10:12,615 --> 00:10:14,855
young guy. And, I have so much, like,

299
00:10:14,855 --> 00:10:17,175
shame and embarrassment around that. I did I

300
00:10:17,175 --> 00:10:19,654
hated telling people that because of the the

301
00:10:19,654 --> 00:10:22,055
judgment that may come from it. Right? But

302
00:10:22,055 --> 00:10:23,735
it's funny. I think back as you were

303
00:10:23,735 --> 00:10:25,434
talking about, I think back to it.

304
00:10:27,470 --> 00:10:30,209
I exited both of those relationships

305
00:10:31,549 --> 00:10:32,529
out of self preservation.

306
00:10:33,230 --> 00:10:34,769
I didn't know that at the time.

307
00:10:35,389 --> 00:10:35,870
I,

308
00:10:36,269 --> 00:10:38,504
I just I knew that there was changes

309
00:10:38,504 --> 00:10:40,585
that were going to come in the future

310
00:10:40,585 --> 00:10:41,085
subconsciously,

311
00:10:41,785 --> 00:10:44,125
and, I didn't want to

312
00:10:44,585 --> 00:10:45,805
I liked my grandiose,

313
00:10:46,825 --> 00:10:48,425
view of myself. I didn't like

314
00:10:49,065 --> 00:10:50,985
and so the marriage was fine as long

315
00:10:50,985 --> 00:10:52,860
as they thought that I was the man.

316
00:10:52,940 --> 00:10:54,480
But the I started getting

317
00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:57,259
hints that they found out that I wasn't

318
00:10:57,259 --> 00:10:58,879
as awesome as I once was,

319
00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:01,500
I was like, well, screw you. Like, you're

320
00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,299
my wife. You're supposed to you're supposed to

321
00:11:03,339 --> 00:11:04,965
you know, so that was my narrative. So

322
00:11:05,045 --> 00:11:07,205
marriage ended. Right. Next marriage, same thing. For

323
00:11:07,205 --> 00:11:08,805
better and for worse. Right? This is my

324
00:11:08,805 --> 00:11:10,745
worst. You're supposed to accept my worst.

325
00:11:11,125 --> 00:11:13,465
Yeah. Exactly. Right? So then it's like, okay.

326
00:11:13,524 --> 00:11:15,445
Here I am, time, and same thing. I

327
00:11:15,445 --> 00:11:16,805
was like, alright. I'm gonna bring the guns

328
00:11:16,805 --> 00:11:18,404
blazing this time. I had more money. My

329
00:11:18,404 --> 00:11:20,085
house was bigger. It's like, okay. I'm I'm

330
00:11:20,085 --> 00:11:22,751
gonna I'm gonna really come in and and

331
00:11:22,751 --> 00:11:25,061
and and kill it this time and be

332
00:11:25,061 --> 00:11:27,371
extra impressive. Right? So same thing, cast her

333
00:11:27,371 --> 00:11:29,681
under my spell, cast everyone under my spell.

334
00:11:29,681 --> 00:11:31,991
But here's the problem with spells is if

335
00:11:31,991 --> 00:11:34,301
someone's living in your home with you twenty

336
00:11:34,301 --> 00:11:34,878
four seven,

337
00:11:35,456 --> 00:11:38,065
Mhmm. It's really hard to cast spells on

338
00:11:38,065 --> 00:11:39,745
people who live in your house. And so

339
00:11:39,745 --> 00:11:42,565
eventually, there gets to be these glimpses of

340
00:11:42,784 --> 00:11:46,065
you without your spell casting, your insecurities, your

341
00:11:46,065 --> 00:11:48,544
character flaws, your anger, your, you know, whatever

342
00:11:48,544 --> 00:11:51,089
whatever the other, kind of less attractive trait,

343
00:11:51,089 --> 00:11:52,789
child childish childish trait.

344
00:11:53,649 --> 00:11:55,009
But as you were saying all that, that's

345
00:11:55,009 --> 00:11:56,230
what I thought of was

346
00:11:57,409 --> 00:11:59,809
here's what happened different this time. When I

347
00:11:59,809 --> 00:12:00,789
betrayed Lauren,

348
00:12:02,615 --> 00:12:04,214
I I gave she was the person I

349
00:12:04,214 --> 00:12:05,815
gave all of me. I really did. I

350
00:12:05,815 --> 00:12:08,375
I I we'd had conversations. She'd she really

351
00:12:08,414 --> 00:12:10,615
you know, that cheesy saying, she made me

352
00:12:10,615 --> 00:12:12,534
a better person. She made me wanna be

353
00:12:12,534 --> 00:12:14,454
better. I I I I cared about things

354
00:12:14,454 --> 00:12:17,309
that I never cared about before when I

355
00:12:17,309 --> 00:12:19,870
was single. Right? So as I'm hearing this,

356
00:12:19,870 --> 00:12:22,190
I think two people and everybody listening probably

357
00:12:22,190 --> 00:12:24,110
has somebody that you guys all know that

358
00:12:24,110 --> 00:12:25,410
person who's been

359
00:12:26,029 --> 00:12:28,029
married three times, four times, five times, six

360
00:12:28,029 --> 00:12:28,529
times.

361
00:12:28,990 --> 00:12:31,904
And if they keep exiting every time that

362
00:12:31,904 --> 00:12:33,284
they get to that point,

363
00:12:34,304 --> 00:12:35,904
you know, this is a general statement and

364
00:12:35,904 --> 00:12:38,225
probably a judgment, but, I don't know. You

365
00:12:38,225 --> 00:12:40,144
guys know those people. They they haven't really

366
00:12:40,144 --> 00:12:42,509
grown a whole lot from a a self

367
00:12:42,509 --> 00:12:45,550
awareness standpoint, self actualization standpoint. You know, if

368
00:12:45,550 --> 00:12:47,870
you keep exiting those relationships when they get

369
00:12:47,870 --> 00:12:49,710
to that point. So that was the thing

370
00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:50,850
that came to mind was

371
00:12:51,310 --> 00:12:53,389
I think of myself when I kept getting

372
00:12:53,389 --> 00:12:55,070
out Mhmm. And I think of other people

373
00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:56,590
who I know who keep getting out. And

374
00:12:56,590 --> 00:12:58,004
it's so true what you said.

375
00:12:58,565 --> 00:13:01,705
There's a big difference between the person who

376
00:13:03,205 --> 00:13:05,524
is in marriage. And then, again, I'm not

377
00:13:05,524 --> 00:13:07,285
demonizing divorce. There's a time and a place

378
00:13:07,285 --> 00:13:09,365
for that. So, but, you know, the person

379
00:13:09,365 --> 00:13:10,985
who's committed to marriage

380
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:12,940
and wants to be in another one, you

381
00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:14,620
know, the they get divorced, they're like, oh,

382
00:13:14,620 --> 00:13:16,379
I wanna be in another one. The guys

383
00:13:16,540 --> 00:13:17,820
you know, a lot of guys in this

384
00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:19,820
area, they're like, should I just get out

385
00:13:19,820 --> 00:13:20,639
and be single,

386
00:13:21,259 --> 00:13:22,700
and and never get married?

387
00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:24,860
And I want one thing I wanted to

388
00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:25,980
speak to you too is,

389
00:13:27,044 --> 00:13:28,264
just to just to

390
00:13:28,644 --> 00:13:31,684
further anchor why we're wired for connection. I

391
00:13:31,684 --> 00:13:33,784
have my description. I'd love for you to

392
00:13:33,924 --> 00:13:35,464
explain that because I I

393
00:13:36,004 --> 00:13:38,325
therapists throw that out very often. Oh, humans

394
00:13:38,325 --> 00:13:40,804
are wired for connection. We're wired to be,

395
00:13:41,125 --> 00:13:41,865
in relationship.

396
00:13:42,269 --> 00:13:44,430
Can you just give a few, like, really

397
00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:46,750
tangible examples of that? Absolutely. I mean, I

398
00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:48,590
I look at this through a lens of,

399
00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:51,389
reflected sense of self and a solid sense

400
00:13:51,389 --> 00:13:52,050
of self.

401
00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:55,149
Right? Other validated self validated, whatever kind of

402
00:13:55,149 --> 00:13:57,315
phraseology you wanna use to do therapist speak

403
00:13:57,315 --> 00:13:57,634
for a

404
00:13:59,394 --> 00:14:01,475
So if the best example I think of

405
00:14:01,475 --> 00:14:03,634
with this Roland is the idea of when

406
00:14:03,634 --> 00:14:05,794
I was in middle school and you try

407
00:14:05,794 --> 00:14:06,934
on different mannerisms,

408
00:14:07,315 --> 00:14:07,815
behaviors,

409
00:14:08,889 --> 00:14:11,789
but it's such a pressure cooker sardine can

410
00:14:12,250 --> 00:14:14,649
environment that you can't go too far out

411
00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:17,610
Mhmm. Because it's it's too risky, but you

412
00:14:17,610 --> 00:14:19,389
do care about what people think.

413
00:14:20,409 --> 00:14:22,490
That's a reflected sense of self. Right? If

414
00:14:22,490 --> 00:14:25,034
I if I work out and I'm feeling

415
00:14:25,034 --> 00:14:26,714
kinda good and strong and I put on

416
00:14:26,714 --> 00:14:28,634
the shirt that's a smedium, so it shows

417
00:14:28,634 --> 00:14:30,254
off the muscles a little more,

418
00:14:30,554 --> 00:14:32,554
and I get, dude, you're looking great. Well,

419
00:14:32,554 --> 00:14:34,235
you know what kind of shirts I'm likely

420
00:14:34,235 --> 00:14:36,634
gonna be wearing then because of what I

421
00:14:36,634 --> 00:14:38,654
had coming back at me, which

422
00:14:39,209 --> 00:14:40,190
all of ourselves

423
00:14:40,570 --> 00:14:43,949
are based and built part partially from that.

424
00:14:44,169 --> 00:14:46,350
Mhmm. Then the other side of the equation

425
00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:49,389
is, what do I have inherently in me

426
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:51,789
that is defining of me,

427
00:14:52,254 --> 00:14:54,414
that that makes me unique, that makes me

428
00:14:54,414 --> 00:14:54,914
special,

429
00:14:55,294 --> 00:14:57,615
that makes that that's my superpowers, if you

430
00:14:57,615 --> 00:14:59,235
will. That's my nuances,

431
00:14:59,934 --> 00:15:01,855
if you will. That's that's part of who

432
00:15:01,855 --> 00:15:02,595
I quintessentially

433
00:15:03,214 --> 00:15:06,610
am. And we constantly go back and between

434
00:15:06,610 --> 00:15:08,310
these things. And so relationships,

435
00:15:10,450 --> 00:15:11,350
play a role

436
00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:12,230
of

437
00:15:12,610 --> 00:15:14,690
not only helping us refine who we are,

438
00:15:14,690 --> 00:15:17,170
but also challenging us to smooth out the

439
00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:18,850
rough edges. I mean, that's the one thing

440
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:21,195
I hear from a lot of people that

441
00:15:21,195 --> 00:15:23,115
were single for a while, and then they

442
00:15:23,115 --> 00:15:25,115
get into a serious relationship. And they're like,

443
00:15:25,115 --> 00:15:27,434
I never really knew how selfish and lazy

444
00:15:27,434 --> 00:15:30,315
I was. Mhmm. Or I never really knew

445
00:15:30,315 --> 00:15:31,134
how opinionated

446
00:15:31,769 --> 00:15:33,930
I am. Or you know, because we always

447
00:15:33,930 --> 00:15:36,090
surround ourselves with the social media is a

448
00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:36,590
great

449
00:15:37,930 --> 00:15:40,170
description of what we do in our lives

450
00:15:40,170 --> 00:15:42,330
also in some ways in the sense that

451
00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:45,529
we surround ourselves in echo chambers. Mhmm. Yeah.

452
00:15:45,529 --> 00:15:47,465
Yeah. Except for in marriage.

453
00:15:48,325 --> 00:15:50,325
I know. And you talk to Democrats in

454
00:15:50,325 --> 00:15:52,085
a marriage at all. It's no law. Democrats

455
00:15:52,085 --> 00:15:53,605
are always like, I don't know where all

456
00:15:53,605 --> 00:15:56,004
these Republicans are because I don't know. I've

457
00:15:56,004 --> 00:15:57,684
never seen a single one. And the Republicans

458
00:15:57,684 --> 00:15:58,804
are like, I don't know where all these

459
00:15:58,804 --> 00:16:01,285
Democrats are. They're single yeah. Exactly like that.

460
00:16:01,285 --> 00:16:03,389
Right? But we don't we don't know

461
00:16:04,250 --> 00:16:04,750
ourselves

462
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:06,670
well

463
00:16:07,370 --> 00:16:09,529
because our spouse we don't have somebody that's

464
00:16:09,529 --> 00:16:12,110
constantly trying to be themselves too because

465
00:16:12,570 --> 00:16:15,290
the pressure of a relationship is, I'll go

466
00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:17,695
along to get along for a time. Mhmm.

467
00:16:17,695 --> 00:16:19,774
And then I'll finally have to start standing

468
00:16:19,774 --> 00:16:21,855
up because it starts going against parts of

469
00:16:21,855 --> 00:16:22,355
me.

470
00:16:22,894 --> 00:16:24,095
Right? It's like, you know what? No. I'm

471
00:16:24,095 --> 00:16:25,534
gonna have to speak up here. You know

472
00:16:25,534 --> 00:16:28,174
what? No. That's not tolerable or gonna have

473
00:16:28,174 --> 00:16:29,774
to draw a line here or something because

474
00:16:29,774 --> 00:16:32,399
it's a threshold of myself has been crossed.

475
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:35,059
Mhmm. It's not just the other. And so

476
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:36,820
there's an element of

477
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,639
relationships play such a vital part of our

478
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:41,139
lives

479
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:43,920
because it's part of what helps us become

480
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:44,899
better people

481
00:16:47,165 --> 00:16:48,845
primarily. And then the other side of it

482
00:16:48,845 --> 00:16:51,345
is, most of us, when we when we're

483
00:16:51,644 --> 00:16:53,404
honest, there's parts of us that we know

484
00:16:53,404 --> 00:16:55,665
aren't refined and we don't like about ourselves.

485
00:16:55,805 --> 00:16:57,805
So I wanna escape that. And where else

486
00:16:57,805 --> 00:17:00,059
do we often go escape that from? Or

487
00:17:00,059 --> 00:17:01,419
where do we go to escape that most

488
00:17:01,419 --> 00:17:02,160
is relationships.

489
00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:04,859
Right? So I I just focus on them.

490
00:17:04,859 --> 00:17:07,339
I can just serve and honor and pursue

491
00:17:07,339 --> 00:17:08,000
and whatever

492
00:17:08,539 --> 00:17:11,339
them. And it's like, wait. Hold on. We

493
00:17:11,339 --> 00:17:13,519
can't escape ourselves. Because I'm hearing

494
00:17:13,974 --> 00:17:16,474
in in your story of the okay. Multiple

495
00:17:16,534 --> 00:17:17,034
marriages.

496
00:17:17,335 --> 00:17:19,335
One of my very clients was this. And

497
00:17:19,335 --> 00:17:21,174
she was an older lady, and she was

498
00:17:21,174 --> 00:17:23,595
on her at the end of her marriage.

499
00:17:23,734 --> 00:17:25,595
And this lady was probably in her seventies.

500
00:17:26,375 --> 00:17:28,054
And and so she came in because she

501
00:17:28,054 --> 00:17:28,714
was like,

502
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:31,380
I just gotta help help me find better

503
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:32,599
men. Mhmm.

504
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:34,819
Right? And so my response to her took

505
00:17:34,819 --> 00:17:36,259
her off guard because I said, how about

506
00:17:36,259 --> 00:17:38,099
let's talk about the common denominator in her

507
00:17:38,099 --> 00:17:38,839
in this story?

508
00:17:39,859 --> 00:17:41,400
I mean, it's you. So

509
00:17:41,734 --> 00:17:43,734
how about we talk about you? Mhmm. And

510
00:17:43,734 --> 00:17:45,434
what could be going on with you

511
00:17:45,815 --> 00:17:48,934
in the threads of your relationship dynamic and

512
00:17:48,934 --> 00:17:50,295
what it is you could be trying to

513
00:17:50,295 --> 00:17:52,134
run from? And she didn't like me at

514
00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:54,695
but then then she came around and was

515
00:17:54,695 --> 00:17:56,875
like, no. That's good. Because it's realizing

516
00:17:57,789 --> 00:18:00,690
we spend and this is the addiction world

517
00:18:01,309 --> 00:18:01,809
largely

518
00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:03,410
is either I'm trying

519
00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:06,190
to puff myself up and feel better about

520
00:18:06,190 --> 00:18:08,509
myself or I'm trying to avoid something about

521
00:18:08,509 --> 00:18:10,369
myself, and there's a way to anesthetize

522
00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:11,890
that. And

523
00:18:12,335 --> 00:18:13,875
and if you think about it,

524
00:18:14,174 --> 00:18:16,255
we're constantly trying to do it. It's it's

525
00:18:16,255 --> 00:18:17,075
still relationship.

526
00:18:18,095 --> 00:18:18,595
So

527
00:18:19,055 --> 00:18:19,795
to me,

528
00:18:20,174 --> 00:18:21,474
the key to

529
00:18:22,095 --> 00:18:22,595
better,

530
00:18:22,894 --> 00:18:23,714
more whole,

531
00:18:24,174 --> 00:18:25,234
vibrant living

532
00:18:25,855 --> 00:18:29,079
is deep, genuine, real relationships. I know that's

533
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:30,940
what your mesh mission is,

534
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,240
is authentic vulnerable relationships is the is the

535
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:35,740
key

536
00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:39,099
to to making what life actually can become

537
00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:42,615
even better than that. Mhmm. Which is which

538
00:18:42,615 --> 00:18:44,795
is challenging in this dynamic. Right? Because

539
00:18:45,975 --> 00:18:48,475
the if you look at what creates intimate

540
00:18:48,535 --> 00:18:49,674
relationships, you know,

541
00:18:50,215 --> 00:18:52,775
Dan Drake and, the Rav Smiths put together

542
00:18:52,775 --> 00:18:55,115
this cool little pyramid called the intimacy pyramid.

543
00:18:55,575 --> 00:18:56,075
And,

544
00:18:56,909 --> 00:18:59,089
in it, there's honesty, trust,

545
00:18:59,470 --> 00:18:59,970
vulnerability,

546
00:19:01,069 --> 00:19:01,809
and safety.

547
00:19:02,269 --> 00:19:04,589
And and, not in that order, but they

548
00:19:04,589 --> 00:19:06,829
build up. And you need, you know, you

549
00:19:06,829 --> 00:19:09,470
need the safety, you need the honesty, you

550
00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:11,714
need the trust to create a platform for

551
00:19:11,714 --> 00:19:12,214
vulnerability.

552
00:19:12,674 --> 00:19:14,835
And then when you add the vulnerability to

553
00:19:14,835 --> 00:19:17,714
this safe container, it creates this intimate connection.

554
00:19:17,714 --> 00:19:19,474
Right? And I I like that pyramid because

555
00:19:19,474 --> 00:19:21,394
it's it's a it's a good way to

556
00:19:21,394 --> 00:19:22,515
visualize it. But,

557
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:25,670
But but, Corey, you come in here, and

558
00:19:25,670 --> 00:19:27,450
here you go. You betray your wife,

559
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:29,690
and,

560
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:33,509
you have this very new dynamic when you

561
00:19:33,509 --> 00:19:34,570
do that. And

562
00:19:35,269 --> 00:19:38,215
it is very and and here's usually a

563
00:19:38,215 --> 00:19:39,355
bunch of men who,

564
00:19:40,615 --> 00:19:43,174
have issues with trust, have issues with,

565
00:19:43,654 --> 00:19:46,134
they all think they're connected because they know

566
00:19:46,134 --> 00:19:48,134
all these people and everybody likes them, and

567
00:19:48,134 --> 00:19:49,815
they speak on stage, and they run these

568
00:19:49,815 --> 00:19:53,220
big companies. And so, you know, me, myself,

569
00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:54,740
I was under that delusion. You know, when

570
00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:56,500
I heard that I had an intimacy disorder

571
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,740
and then I had intimacy anorexia, and I

572
00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:00,660
was like, no. You guys got the wrong

573
00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:02,840
guy. Like, you that that is not me.

574
00:20:03,460 --> 00:20:04,759
Then I came to realize,

575
00:20:05,059 --> 00:20:06,704
okay. And I start to look the belief

576
00:20:06,704 --> 00:20:09,184
system that people like that have. I'm like,

577
00:20:09,184 --> 00:20:10,164
yeah. I

578
00:20:10,544 --> 00:20:11,765
I have that belief system.

579
00:20:12,224 --> 00:20:14,464
And so can I have that can I

580
00:20:14,464 --> 00:20:17,025
have that belief system of distrust of people,

581
00:20:17,025 --> 00:20:19,105
not trusting anyone besides myself to get my

582
00:20:19,105 --> 00:20:21,365
needs met? Can I believe those things

583
00:20:21,779 --> 00:20:23,400
and have really deep meaningful

584
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:24,200
relationships?

585
00:20:25,859 --> 00:20:27,140
You know, I don't think so. Right? I

586
00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:28,460
think I think you have to turn some

587
00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:29,700
of those off to be able to invite

588
00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:30,980
some of that in. So but my question

589
00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:31,880
to you is,

590
00:20:32,259 --> 00:20:33,859
so here we are. We've done that to

591
00:20:33,859 --> 00:20:34,600
our partners.

592
00:20:35,954 --> 00:20:38,615
Now we're supposed to have this very vulnerable,

593
00:20:38,835 --> 00:20:39,974
authentic relationship,

594
00:20:41,154 --> 00:20:41,815
in a

595
00:20:42,194 --> 00:20:44,275
very hostile environment. What do you say to

596
00:20:44,275 --> 00:20:44,775
that?

597
00:20:47,429 --> 00:20:49,769
Well, so then it starts to become

598
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:51,369
how do you approach

599
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:52,569
that environment

600
00:20:53,109 --> 00:20:55,349
to where if the goal is just to

601
00:20:55,349 --> 00:20:56,490
lower the hostility

602
00:20:56,869 --> 00:20:59,414
you've already lost, both of you have.

603
00:20:59,975 --> 00:21:02,154
Right? Because it's it's getting to where

604
00:21:02,455 --> 00:21:04,535
realizing we need to face the things. I

605
00:21:04,535 --> 00:21:06,375
need to face the things I've been avoiding

606
00:21:06,375 --> 00:21:07,115
all along.

607
00:21:07,494 --> 00:21:09,755
And it's not just her. It's also me.

608
00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:11,115
Mhmm. It's also

609
00:21:11,815 --> 00:21:12,420
you know,

610
00:21:12,980 --> 00:21:14,660
understand. I use this with my clients a

611
00:21:14,660 --> 00:21:15,880
lot in the sense of,

612
00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:18,420
okay. So something's happened where there's been a

613
00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:20,980
betrayal or a moral failure of some sort.

614
00:21:20,980 --> 00:21:22,580
Right? You're you're out of line with your

615
00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:23,080
character.

616
00:21:23,539 --> 00:21:24,519
K. Good.

617
00:21:25,164 --> 00:21:26,845
That that's good. That's now you see what

618
00:21:26,845 --> 00:21:27,904
you're capable of.

619
00:21:28,765 --> 00:21:30,365
And then now we'll see what you're capable

620
00:21:30,365 --> 00:21:30,865
of.

621
00:21:32,045 --> 00:21:34,605
Right? Because it it's it's really helpful information.

622
00:21:34,605 --> 00:21:36,224
I mean, on my emotional betrayal,

623
00:21:36,605 --> 00:21:38,525
I never thought going in I was capable

624
00:21:38,525 --> 00:21:40,740
of that because it's not something that just

625
00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:44,039
happens real quickly. It's it's a slow gradual,

626
00:21:45,299 --> 00:21:47,539
oh, okay. Oh, this oh, oh, oh, and

627
00:21:47,539 --> 00:21:49,320
then, woah. Oh, here we go.

628
00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:52,275
You're already way past the line. Mhmm. But

629
00:21:52,515 --> 00:21:54,835
looking back at it, you realize, okay. Now

630
00:21:54,835 --> 00:21:56,434
I know what I'm capable of. So what

631
00:21:56,434 --> 00:21:57,634
do I need to do to put in

632
00:21:57,634 --> 00:21:58,134
place

633
00:21:58,755 --> 00:22:01,174
the the safeguards, if you will, the structures,

634
00:22:01,234 --> 00:22:02,134
if you will,

635
00:22:02,595 --> 00:22:05,474
because I know what I'm capable of? And

636
00:22:05,474 --> 00:22:07,470
then at the same time, you start to

637
00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:10,049
see how do I actually face this. Because

638
00:22:10,829 --> 00:22:12,849
if I don't go through a process

639
00:22:13,470 --> 00:22:16,690
of true renewal, if you will, or refining

640
00:22:16,910 --> 00:22:18,369
of my own self,

641
00:22:18,829 --> 00:22:20,929
it's just a dressing up

642
00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:21,970
what was

643
00:22:22,325 --> 00:22:24,184
nothing where nothing's changed.

644
00:22:25,125 --> 00:22:27,464
And who sees through that the fastest?

645
00:22:27,765 --> 00:22:30,164
Mhmm. Yeah. You're right. A spouse. Mhmm. Yeah.

646
00:22:30,164 --> 00:22:31,224
A spouse knows.

647
00:22:31,684 --> 00:22:33,464
But if it's something fundamentally

648
00:22:33,924 --> 00:22:36,565
different where it's a order change, like, it's

649
00:22:36,565 --> 00:22:37,545
a deep belief

650
00:22:38,299 --> 00:22:39,200
value level

651
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:40,000
change,

652
00:22:40,779 --> 00:22:43,019
that's gonna get seen too. Not as quick

653
00:22:43,019 --> 00:22:45,259
as we want it to. That's that's the

654
00:22:45,259 --> 00:22:47,259
problem that you probably run into also. It's

655
00:22:47,259 --> 00:22:50,059
like, god. It's been three years. It's been

656
00:22:50,299 --> 00:22:52,304
why can't they? Okay. Hold on. Because now

657
00:22:52,304 --> 00:22:54,464
you're still dealing with hurt and their own

658
00:22:54,464 --> 00:22:54,964
stuff

659
00:22:55,585 --> 00:22:58,164
that's being exposed here. Because it's not just

660
00:22:58,224 --> 00:22:59,444
you. Mhmm.

661
00:22:59,744 --> 00:23:02,544
That's the main purpose or or or main

662
00:23:02,544 --> 00:23:06,029
point here. It's them. And so it's realizing

663
00:23:06,029 --> 00:23:08,269
there's so many things that have gone on

664
00:23:08,269 --> 00:23:08,769
concurrently

665
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:12,450
that we have to realize, k, what's actually

666
00:23:12,509 --> 00:23:14,509
at risk here for each of us Mhmm.

667
00:23:14,589 --> 00:23:16,509
To have to face ourselves. Because if we

668
00:23:16,509 --> 00:23:18,049
do it right, in my opinion,

669
00:23:18,990 --> 00:23:20,049
I turn into

670
00:23:20,674 --> 00:23:22,674
my own crucible, if you will, to coin

671
00:23:22,674 --> 00:23:24,355
a phrase from doctor Snar, who I did

672
00:23:24,355 --> 00:23:25,734
a bunch of my training under.

673
00:23:26,595 --> 00:23:28,595
And I grow and refine myself, and I

674
00:23:28,595 --> 00:23:31,654
come out more, you know, more solid. Well,

675
00:23:32,115 --> 00:23:32,855
my process

676
00:23:34,115 --> 00:23:34,775
by design

677
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,799
would almost encourage, if not force, my wife

678
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:39,980
to have to do the same for her

679
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:40,700
life,

680
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,259
not just in relationship to me.

681
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,359
Because if I come out and I'm more

682
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,585
honest and genuine about some things, maybe I'd

683
00:23:48,585 --> 00:23:51,384
keep in kept hidden about desires or wishes

684
00:23:51,384 --> 00:23:52,684
or longings or whatever

685
00:23:52,984 --> 00:23:54,365
because it was improper

686
00:23:55,144 --> 00:23:57,785
or too out there or whatever. And now

687
00:23:57,785 --> 00:24:00,359
I start bringing that out. Well, that's gonna

688
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:02,140
really pressure her,

689
00:24:02,679 --> 00:24:04,599
which now is gonna expose things in her

690
00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:06,839
to have to face about, hold on. It's

691
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:08,359
so much easier to keep it as the

692
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,359
addict world of, well, you're just an addict.

693
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,799
You're just a pervert. You're just a

694
00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:13,934
well, k. K. But it's another thing to

695
00:24:13,934 --> 00:24:16,595
say, yeah. That's parts of me. Absolutely.

696
00:24:16,974 --> 00:24:18,194
Mhmm. You're right.

697
00:24:19,054 --> 00:24:20,654
And now what do we do? Right? Because

698
00:24:20,654 --> 00:24:22,335
now it's now we're actually having to face

699
00:24:22,335 --> 00:24:25,619
what's really going on rather than just pain.

700
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:27,380
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. It's a

701
00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:29,380
and this is where I think it's a

702
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:31,700
lot easier, especially in the sex addiction world

703
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:34,099
and betrayal world. It's a lot easier for

704
00:24:34,099 --> 00:24:36,500
you guys to make the individual headway that

705
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:37,480
you need to make

706
00:24:38,115 --> 00:24:39,875
in your peer groups than it is in

707
00:24:39,875 --> 00:24:41,634
the relationship. And it's a you know, when

708
00:24:41,634 --> 00:24:42,855
you don't have these skills,

709
00:24:43,234 --> 00:24:45,394
especially the guys, I mean, it's a that

710
00:24:45,394 --> 00:24:47,894
environment is a tough place to practice.

711
00:24:48,275 --> 00:24:50,035
And, you know, so so get your reps

712
00:24:50,035 --> 00:24:51,634
in. And that's you know, and when they

713
00:24:51,634 --> 00:24:54,720
say peer support too, you know, guys, it's

714
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,799
not just going I mean, 12 step is

715
00:24:56,799 --> 00:24:58,580
not designed for connection.

716
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:01,460
When you read it, it is designed

717
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,359
when you look at it, the program is

718
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,599
designed to work 12 steps. That's what the

719
00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:07,325
container is for. If you look at it,

720
00:25:07,325 --> 00:25:08,765
it is a place for you to come

721
00:25:08,765 --> 00:25:10,125
together with a bunch of other guys and

722
00:25:10,125 --> 00:25:12,285
work the steps together and then hire a,

723
00:25:12,924 --> 00:25:14,144
partner with a sponsor

724
00:25:14,525 --> 00:25:17,325
to help you with the steps. Sponsors are

725
00:25:17,325 --> 00:25:19,085
not supposed to give you advice. It actually

726
00:25:19,085 --> 00:25:20,945
says in the handbook that that is prohibited.

727
00:25:21,059 --> 00:25:22,900
They're supposed to help you go through the

728
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:23,400
steps.

729
00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:27,220
So just for you guys who are still

730
00:25:27,220 --> 00:25:28,279
struggling with this,

731
00:25:28,580 --> 00:25:30,740
if 12 step is where you are getting

732
00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:31,480
all of your

733
00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:32,360
connection,

734
00:25:34,065 --> 00:25:35,984
I mean, when you when all you can

735
00:25:35,984 --> 00:25:38,065
say back to the other guy is, thanks,

736
00:25:38,065 --> 00:25:39,524
Corey. Thanks, Roland.

737
00:25:40,065 --> 00:25:41,284
That's not connection.

738
00:25:41,664 --> 00:25:42,724
Right? That's that's

739
00:25:43,184 --> 00:25:44,464
it's a safe place for you to be

740
00:25:44,464 --> 00:25:46,464
able to share so that you don't have

741
00:25:46,464 --> 00:25:49,000
shame. But, again, it's not in it's not

742
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,320
an environment created for connections. If you guys

743
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,220
want to connect,

744
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,400
meet those same guys outside of the group.

745
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,759
So, hey, do you guys wanna have breakfast?

746
00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:57,880
Do you guys wanna go to dinner? Do

747
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,640
you you know, the connection's gonna happen where

748
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,480
you guys can have a very normal dialogue

749
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,434
where they're allowed to say more than thanks

750
00:26:03,515 --> 00:26:05,775
with your name. Right? And so,

751
00:26:06,875 --> 00:26:08,735
the question I had was,

752
00:26:10,715 --> 00:26:12,154
I'm gonna hold on. Before you get there,

753
00:26:12,154 --> 00:26:13,674
I wanna let's jump in real quick on

754
00:26:13,674 --> 00:26:16,235
on an aspect within the dynamic of marriage,

755
00:26:16,235 --> 00:26:16,680
though.

756
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,660
Because a lot of times what happens after,

757
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,700
whatever is discovered or disclosed.

758
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,580
Right? So let's say it's you're completely clean

759
00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:27,420
in the sense of I've been transparent.

760
00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:30,794
Here's here's here's what's going on, And it

761
00:26:30,794 --> 00:26:33,514
truly is a element of what you want

762
00:26:33,514 --> 00:26:34,575
to do is,

763
00:26:35,994 --> 00:26:39,034
reestablish a relationship. Esther I love Esther Perel's

764
00:26:39,034 --> 00:26:41,115
wording on this is the marriage we have

765
00:26:41,115 --> 00:26:42,634
is over. Now it's a question of do

766
00:26:42,634 --> 00:26:44,799
we want another one together. Mhmm. Correct. And

767
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:46,480
it's not that formal, we're gonna actually have

768
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,320
a divorce and then get remarried. But I

769
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,359
have to look at it as a a

770
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,259
new chapter Mhmm. Is definitively starting.

771
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:53,380
And

772
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,380
within that process,

773
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:58,100
what most often can happen is

774
00:26:58,755 --> 00:27:01,575
the the underbelly, the shadow motivations we've got

775
00:27:02,115 --> 00:27:03,015
are still there.

776
00:27:03,315 --> 00:27:05,154
Mhmm. I've just started to clean them up,

777
00:27:05,154 --> 00:27:06,674
and I don't go out to as far

778
00:27:06,674 --> 00:27:07,494
of an extreme

779
00:27:07,875 --> 00:27:09,095
to get things met

780
00:27:09,555 --> 00:27:10,295
or medicated.

781
00:27:11,090 --> 00:27:12,690
But I still got them. Right? Because I

782
00:27:12,769 --> 00:27:14,690
we all medicate in some way, shape, or

783
00:27:14,690 --> 00:27:17,990
form for life's ills and fears and insecurities.

784
00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:18,950
So,

785
00:27:20,529 --> 00:27:22,390
whenever I'm actually doing better

786
00:27:23,305 --> 00:27:25,724
and then the dynamic in the marriage changes

787
00:27:26,025 --> 00:27:28,424
to where she still is not trusting. That's

788
00:27:28,424 --> 00:27:30,424
the that's the buzzword that's thrown around all

789
00:27:30,424 --> 00:27:31,625
the time of I need to be able

790
00:27:31,625 --> 00:27:33,865
to trust you. My answer to that is

791
00:27:33,865 --> 00:27:34,765
to do what?

792
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:38,710
Right? Because it's so broad brush. It's not

793
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:40,330
it's not nuanced enough

794
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:43,190
to where instead, it's like, I need to

795
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:44,809
be willing to have the risk

796
00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:46,570
and choose,

797
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:49,269
am I willing to possibly get hurt again?

798
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:51,825
Mhmm. That's really what she's facing. Mhmm. And

799
00:27:51,825 --> 00:27:53,845
then I also need to have the willingness

800
00:27:53,904 --> 00:27:55,205
to ask the question of,

801
00:27:55,585 --> 00:27:57,744
am I with somebody that cares about the

802
00:27:57,744 --> 00:28:00,305
pain I have to go through to choose

803
00:28:00,305 --> 00:28:02,785
this? Mhmm. Because if I start to see

804
00:28:02,785 --> 00:28:04,779
it that way because I came home five

805
00:28:04,779 --> 00:28:05,519
years after

806
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:06,640
my disclosure

807
00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:08,160
of an emotional betrayal

808
00:28:09,180 --> 00:28:10,539
and my wife, it was right around the

809
00:28:10,539 --> 00:28:12,160
anniversary of the day of disclosing.

810
00:28:12,779 --> 00:28:14,539
And so I came in, had totally no

811
00:28:14,539 --> 00:28:16,160
idea of the of the anniversary,

812
00:28:16,984 --> 00:28:18,825
and she was in a really bad spot.

813
00:28:18,825 --> 00:28:20,424
I'm just really down that day because it

814
00:28:20,424 --> 00:28:22,184
had just hit her, and she's just really

815
00:28:22,184 --> 00:28:23,865
wrestling even though we were on a huge

816
00:28:23,865 --> 00:28:25,565
upward trajectory at this point.

817
00:28:26,025 --> 00:28:27,865
And she's I'm like, you okay? She just

818
00:28:27,865 --> 00:28:31,164
read it. She's like, no. I'm really not.

819
00:28:31,339 --> 00:28:33,039
I can't believe you did that.

820
00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:35,099
And I was in a better spot at

821
00:28:35,099 --> 00:28:36,619
this point because my answer to her back

822
00:28:36,619 --> 00:28:38,240
was, I can't either.

823
00:28:39,820 --> 00:28:41,599
Rather than my normal defensive

824
00:28:42,299 --> 00:28:42,799
avoid,

825
00:28:43,444 --> 00:28:44,345
let me explain.

826
00:28:45,605 --> 00:28:47,444
But look how far we've gone. You know?

827
00:28:47,444 --> 00:28:48,644
Look at look at all this kind of

828
00:28:48,644 --> 00:28:51,065
stuff. And and instead, it was truly a,

829
00:28:51,525 --> 00:28:53,924
yeah, you're right. Because what I wanted to

830
00:28:53,924 --> 00:28:56,184
try to do, looking back at it, was

831
00:28:56,244 --> 00:28:58,424
how do I make room for your pain?

832
00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:01,580
Because it's valid. It's legitimate.

833
00:29:02,519 --> 00:29:04,360
And it's not about me even though it

834
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:04,860
is.

835
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,420
Part me, you know, partly,

836
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,960
if not a lot, because of me. But

837
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,700
it's still

838
00:29:11,394 --> 00:29:13,974
true compassion, true depth of relationship

839
00:29:14,755 --> 00:29:17,875
has room for both people even when their

840
00:29:17,875 --> 00:29:18,375
experience

841
00:29:18,835 --> 00:29:20,134
crowds out mine.

842
00:29:21,555 --> 00:29:25,075
Right? So it's realizing that's what's the struggle

843
00:29:25,075 --> 00:29:26,214
of deep relationships

844
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:27,500
in marriage, particularly,

845
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:30,220
is getting to the point where,

846
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,599
hold on. This isn't about how do I

847
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:35,160
just make sure we're okay. This is about

848
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,220
how am I alongside

849
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,720
you to to the points that are gonna

850
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,424
be hurt.

851
00:29:40,904 --> 00:29:42,105
You know, I could be hurt. I can

852
00:29:42,105 --> 00:29:43,085
feel that pain

853
00:29:44,265 --> 00:29:46,585
and and walk alongside it, but also have

854
00:29:46,585 --> 00:29:48,184
the courage enough to say, you know what?

855
00:29:48,184 --> 00:29:48,924
Hold on.

856
00:29:49,465 --> 00:29:50,985
I still feel like I'm getting kicked in

857
00:29:50,985 --> 00:29:52,205
the teeth for something

858
00:29:53,329 --> 00:29:54,390
that I've owned.

859
00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:57,089
And I don't know what we need to

860
00:29:57,089 --> 00:29:59,809
do about that completely, but this is this

861
00:29:59,850 --> 00:30:01,170
you know, because this is where it starts

862
00:30:01,170 --> 00:30:01,829
to flip,

863
00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:02,950
where

864
00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:04,630
it it starts to become

865
00:30:05,744 --> 00:30:08,065
problematic on both sides of the equation because

866
00:30:08,065 --> 00:30:10,085
one person hangs on to that wound

867
00:30:10,464 --> 00:30:12,865
and then weaponizes it just like I could

868
00:30:12,865 --> 00:30:14,644
hang on to an insecurity

869
00:30:15,105 --> 00:30:18,244
or an unmet something and weaponize it. And

870
00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:20,779
that's the underbelly of us gets uncovered in

871
00:30:20,779 --> 00:30:22,619
in this. And so when I start to

872
00:30:22,619 --> 00:30:25,100
see it through a different lens, I then

873
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:26,320
have a different empowerment

874
00:30:26,860 --> 00:30:28,160
to okay. Wait.

875
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,960
I'm really handling me much better here.

876
00:30:31,275 --> 00:30:32,795
So Well, it's a it's what what you

877
00:30:32,795 --> 00:30:35,035
said is you see this in you see

878
00:30:35,035 --> 00:30:36,795
this in the sex addiction world a lot

879
00:30:36,795 --> 00:30:38,174
because what will happen is,

880
00:30:38,955 --> 00:30:40,634
a lot of guys, you know, it's not

881
00:30:40,634 --> 00:30:42,955
a small list of things that they've done.

882
00:30:43,195 --> 00:30:44,555
It's a it's a big list. You know,

883
00:30:44,555 --> 00:30:47,279
mine was uncomfortably bigger than I thought it

884
00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:48,759
was gonna be. And when I sat down

885
00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:51,100
and wrote it down, I'm like, whoo. Uh-oh.

886
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,900
Right. You know? And so

887
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,619
but here's what happens, right, is,

888
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:00,440
in that initial phase, we we we never

889
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:02,765
as the as the cheating partner, we never

890
00:31:03,545 --> 00:31:05,065
act the way they want us to act.

891
00:31:05,065 --> 00:31:06,525
We're we're in tons of shock.

892
00:31:07,225 --> 00:31:08,045
We're scared.

893
00:31:08,424 --> 00:31:09,705
You know, so we're not we're not quite

894
00:31:09,705 --> 00:31:11,065
showing up in that way that they really

895
00:31:11,065 --> 00:31:12,505
want us to show up, which is which

896
00:31:12,505 --> 00:31:14,849
is, fair and understandable on both sides.

897
00:31:15,970 --> 00:31:17,890
But here's the sad part, right, is especially

898
00:31:17,890 --> 00:31:20,049
in the sex addiction space, they're like, woah.

899
00:31:20,049 --> 00:31:20,549
He's

900
00:31:21,410 --> 00:31:22,789
hired, you know, 19,

901
00:31:23,329 --> 00:31:25,730
prostitutes, went to all these massage parlors, went

902
00:31:25,890 --> 00:31:27,890
you know, their reaction you know, tune to

903
00:31:27,890 --> 00:31:29,910
one night stands, slept with this one coworker

904
00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:30,704
on it. It's like,

905
00:31:31,184 --> 00:31:33,345
all of her friends, her parents, everybody, hey.

906
00:31:33,345 --> 00:31:34,704
You need to you need to leave this

907
00:31:34,704 --> 00:31:36,304
guy. You need to get a divorce. This

908
00:31:36,304 --> 00:31:37,845
guy is this guy, like,

909
00:31:38,304 --> 00:31:40,304
why why are you even considering staying with

910
00:31:40,304 --> 00:31:41,204
him? Right? So,

911
00:31:42,544 --> 00:31:44,779
but she wants to stay. That that's that's

912
00:31:44,779 --> 00:31:46,539
where she's at right now. And so but

913
00:31:46,539 --> 00:31:47,759
look at that. Right? So,

914
00:31:48,059 --> 00:31:50,380
a, you didn't quite show her what she

915
00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:52,779
wanted. She didn't quite see the the the

916
00:31:52,779 --> 00:31:55,099
the pain you feeling her pain. Then she

917
00:31:55,099 --> 00:31:56,700
goes to her friends and her friends are

918
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:57,345
all like,

919
00:31:57,904 --> 00:31:59,744
hey. You know? Then there's always a couple

920
00:31:59,744 --> 00:32:01,505
of the friends. Right? Sometimes it's the parents

921
00:32:01,505 --> 00:32:03,265
who are like, hey. You know what? Give

922
00:32:03,265 --> 00:32:05,105
them a chance. And, you know, sometimes their

923
00:32:05,105 --> 00:32:07,585
parents, like, belittle it. They're like, hey. We

924
00:32:07,585 --> 00:32:10,430
all we all make mistakes. Right? So, typically,

925
00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:12,190
this is how it goes. Basically, they're not

926
00:32:12,190 --> 00:32:14,910
really getting the response from any of the

927
00:32:14,910 --> 00:32:16,509
parties in their life. And the reason I'm

928
00:32:16,509 --> 00:32:17,570
bringing this up is

929
00:32:17,950 --> 00:32:21,009
it is not uncommon for them to weaponize

930
00:32:22,075 --> 00:32:24,394
the situation because they felt like they didn't

931
00:32:24,394 --> 00:32:27,195
get taken seriously. And my heart aches for

932
00:32:27,195 --> 00:32:28,894
them because they're absolutely

933
00:32:29,355 --> 00:32:31,115
spot on. They were not taken. It was

934
00:32:31,115 --> 00:32:32,715
not honored. It was not honored by the

935
00:32:32,715 --> 00:32:34,555
husband. It was not honored by their parents,

936
00:32:34,555 --> 00:32:36,394
by his parents, by the peers, by the

937
00:32:36,849 --> 00:32:39,029
and so I I get that. But it's

938
00:32:39,169 --> 00:32:40,950
tough, Corey. They get stuck

939
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:44,049
sometimes in this, I need to stick up

940
00:32:44,049 --> 00:32:46,129
for how bad this was because no one

941
00:32:46,129 --> 00:32:47,349
takes it seriously.

942
00:32:48,049 --> 00:32:50,629
And, again, that ends up getting becoming problematic

943
00:32:50,929 --> 00:32:51,429
because

944
00:32:52,484 --> 00:32:55,125
now we're sticking up for how much this

945
00:32:55,125 --> 00:32:56,345
hurts rather than

946
00:32:56,644 --> 00:32:59,125
trying to heal. Right? And so it's it's

947
00:32:59,125 --> 00:33:01,045
this murky it's this murky space, and I

948
00:33:01,045 --> 00:33:02,984
think what makes it extra murky is

949
00:33:03,285 --> 00:33:04,505
because you did it

950
00:33:04,809 --> 00:33:06,830
to her and because it is so ugly

951
00:33:06,890 --> 00:33:08,509
and horrible and,

952
00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:09,930
they're

953
00:33:10,650 --> 00:33:12,750
you know, it's very hard to tell somebody

954
00:33:12,890 --> 00:33:14,970
to, hey. You need to you need to

955
00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:17,049
kinda come off this. It's it's scary for

956
00:33:17,049 --> 00:33:19,309
everybody, even the therapist, to tell the person

957
00:33:19,595 --> 00:33:21,075
that they need to maybe come off at

958
00:33:21,075 --> 00:33:23,535
a skoch or we're gonna stay stuck here.

959
00:33:24,315 --> 00:33:26,474
That whole aspect mess messes I I see

960
00:33:26,474 --> 00:33:27,994
it time and time and time again. These

961
00:33:27,994 --> 00:33:30,154
these women have been bullied into a position

962
00:33:30,154 --> 00:33:31,595
where they feel like they have to stick

963
00:33:31,595 --> 00:33:33,355
up for what's been done to them. And

964
00:33:33,355 --> 00:33:35,970
it's really sad because it starts to become

965
00:33:35,970 --> 00:33:38,289
the very problem that prevents the couple from

966
00:33:38,289 --> 00:33:39,029
getting forward.

967
00:33:39,490 --> 00:33:41,029
Well and the undercurrents

968
00:33:42,450 --> 00:33:44,849
of that also are part of what helps

969
00:33:44,849 --> 00:33:47,924
create the problems in life anyway. Yeah. Sure.

970
00:33:49,365 --> 00:33:51,525
So so it's it's coming to grips with

971
00:33:51,525 --> 00:33:53,445
most of the time when you're talking about

972
00:33:53,445 --> 00:33:55,384
issues that come up in marriage.

973
00:33:55,765 --> 00:33:56,985
They just get revealed

974
00:33:57,684 --> 00:33:59,305
because they were already there.

975
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:02,759
Right? That it's it's an insecurity. It's an

976
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:03,259
uncertainty.

977
00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:06,759
It's a I'm I'm too withdrawn. I'm too

978
00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:09,320
aloof. I'm too judgmental. I'm too reactive. I'm

979
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,320
in a and these are all subtleties and

980
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,500
on a continuum. You know? They're not typically

981
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:14,940
giant because

982
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,775
we meet, fall in love with, and stay

983
00:34:17,775 --> 00:34:19,394
with people that make sense.

984
00:34:20,414 --> 00:34:22,414
If they do life at a different level

985
00:34:22,414 --> 00:34:24,175
than I do, it is a short lived

986
00:34:24,175 --> 00:34:24,675
relationship,

987
00:34:25,295 --> 00:34:27,554
period, if it's a relationship at all.

988
00:34:27,934 --> 00:34:30,489
But the people that make sense are the

989
00:34:30,489 --> 00:34:32,010
ones that I have a potential of a

990
00:34:32,010 --> 00:34:34,170
long term relationship with, and it's because they

991
00:34:34,170 --> 00:34:38,030
see life and operate in life largely similarly

992
00:34:38,250 --> 00:34:40,269
to me in some way. And there's nuances

993
00:34:40,409 --> 00:34:42,409
throughout all of this and how it plays

994
00:34:42,409 --> 00:34:45,175
out and manifest itself are different. But fundamentally

995
00:34:45,394 --> 00:34:45,894
speaking,

996
00:34:46,675 --> 00:34:48,594
there's a there's so much similarities. It's like,

997
00:34:48,594 --> 00:34:50,194
okay. I can get that because it's it's

998
00:34:50,355 --> 00:34:52,375
it mirrors my family of origin.

999
00:34:52,675 --> 00:34:55,074
Right? I either marry my parents or the

1000
00:34:55,074 --> 00:34:56,855
exact opposite of my parents,

1001
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:59,289
which that's fundamentally the same

1002
00:34:59,909 --> 00:35:02,070
if you think about it. 180 degrees from

1003
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:04,630
crazy is just another form of crazy. Mhmm.

1004
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:07,130
So it's it's seeing it as

1005
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:10,250
there's there's nothing going wrong in the system

1006
00:35:10,309 --> 00:35:12,974
in that regard. It's just exposing things. Now

1007
00:35:12,974 --> 00:35:14,494
it comes down to and that's why I

1008
00:35:14,494 --> 00:35:16,894
love the idea of separating it out to

1009
00:35:16,894 --> 00:35:19,315
where it wasn't done to her.

1010
00:35:20,174 --> 00:35:23,074
She's collateral damage from it. Mhmm.

1011
00:35:23,454 --> 00:35:25,375
And now if she starts to look at

1012
00:35:25,375 --> 00:35:27,154
it and can have a more,

1013
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,340
self soothed,

1014
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:31,099
rational,

1015
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,820
as well as taking into account her emotions

1016
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:34,699
view

1017
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,820
of what went down and what goes on,

1018
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,199
then she likely would be wise to have

1019
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:42,164
some questions of, okay. Who exactly

1020
00:35:42,464 --> 00:35:43,444
is this guy?

1021
00:35:44,944 --> 00:35:47,105
Because we often tie it into the whole,

1022
00:35:47,105 --> 00:35:48,704
yeah, but I wanna keep and that's the

1023
00:35:48,704 --> 00:35:50,864
story of the relationship. That's the story of

1024
00:35:50,864 --> 00:35:52,944
how it began, you know, when we all

1025
00:35:52,944 --> 00:35:55,904
met each other's marketing departments Mhmm. And sales

1026
00:35:55,904 --> 00:35:56,404
guys.

1027
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:58,230
You know, that that's the beginning of every

1028
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:59,989
relationship. You meet the sales office and the

1029
00:35:59,989 --> 00:36:00,969
marketing departments.

1030
00:36:01,510 --> 00:36:02,869
And then when you get into it in

1031
00:36:02,869 --> 00:36:05,269
marriage, it's the back office and Mhmm. The

1032
00:36:05,269 --> 00:36:05,769
managements.

1033
00:36:06,070 --> 00:36:08,150
Right? The CEOs, the people that well, actually,

1034
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:09,829
it's the back office. That's people that are

1035
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:11,369
really running every shop anyway.

1036
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:11,910
So

1037
00:36:12,924 --> 00:36:14,924
but it's like, okay. Who are these people?

1038
00:36:14,924 --> 00:36:17,324
Because then you get caught in when, like,

1039
00:36:17,324 --> 00:36:19,184
when a wife is caught in this dilemma

1040
00:36:19,404 --> 00:36:19,904
of,

1041
00:36:20,284 --> 00:36:22,844
wait a I got parents saying this thing,

1042
00:36:22,844 --> 00:36:24,764
friends saying this thing, he's saying this other

1043
00:36:24,764 --> 00:36:26,924
thing, a therapist saying nobody's saying the same

1044
00:36:26,924 --> 00:36:27,424
thing.

1045
00:36:27,885 --> 00:36:30,019
Well, they don't know the whole story like

1046
00:36:30,019 --> 00:36:31,079
she does. Mhmm.

1047
00:36:31,699 --> 00:36:33,059
So if she can figure out how to

1048
00:36:33,059 --> 00:36:34,840
settle settle herself down

1049
00:36:35,460 --> 00:36:37,780
and take into account what everybody else is

1050
00:36:37,780 --> 00:36:39,639
saying, which is always usually projections,

1051
00:36:40,340 --> 00:36:42,179
you know, because we we respond out of

1052
00:36:42,179 --> 00:36:44,424
things out of our own fear, hurt, or

1053
00:36:44,424 --> 00:36:44,924
pain.

1054
00:36:46,025 --> 00:36:47,545
Like, oh, if he did that to me,

1055
00:36:47,545 --> 00:36:49,304
blah blah, that's nothing about her. That's about

1056
00:36:49,304 --> 00:36:51,164
what if what is going on with me.

1057
00:36:51,224 --> 00:36:51,724
So

1058
00:36:52,344 --> 00:36:54,284
and then I can maybe have a a

1059
00:36:54,344 --> 00:36:55,885
a more discerning view

1060
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:58,949
of, okay, who is this guy? Mhmm. And

1061
00:36:58,949 --> 00:36:59,930
then more importantly,

1062
00:37:01,030 --> 00:37:03,190
who will this guy be? Mhmm. Because if

1063
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:03,930
he's genuine,

1064
00:37:04,789 --> 00:37:07,269
I'll see it. Mhmm. I'll know it. And

1065
00:37:07,269 --> 00:37:08,329
if he's not,

1066
00:37:08,789 --> 00:37:11,394
the spidey senses go off. Mhmm. And it

1067
00:37:11,394 --> 00:37:13,715
all falls back into place. It's like, oh,

1068
00:37:13,715 --> 00:37:14,215
okay.

1069
00:37:14,595 --> 00:37:16,675
I get it. I I you've shown me

1070
00:37:16,675 --> 00:37:18,434
who you are. Thank you. Mhmm. Now I

1071
00:37:18,434 --> 00:37:20,375
know. And then I can make my decision.

1072
00:37:20,914 --> 00:37:23,075
Mhmm. Well, it's a it's you know, that's

1073
00:37:23,075 --> 00:37:24,994
why a lot of guys are checking off

1074
00:37:24,994 --> 00:37:26,429
the boxes and not in actual

1075
00:37:30,829 --> 00:37:33,710
good recovery is not stopping the behaviors. Good

1076
00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:36,109
recovery is going into that back office and

1077
00:37:36,109 --> 00:37:37,789
saying, who the hell runs the you know?

1078
00:37:37,789 --> 00:37:39,469
Yeah. Who are these people, and do I

1079
00:37:39,469 --> 00:37:41,684
want them do I Yeah. Want them here.

1080
00:37:41,684 --> 00:37:44,164
Right? That's Good recovery is a guy that's

1081
00:37:44,164 --> 00:37:47,065
able to ask himself the question of, okay.

1082
00:37:47,204 --> 00:37:48,505
As it stands now,

1083
00:37:48,805 --> 00:37:50,724
would I want to be in a marriage

1084
00:37:50,724 --> 00:37:52,965
with me? Mhmm. Mhmm. Will I want to

1085
00:37:52,965 --> 00:37:55,460
marry me? Yeah. And the answer to that

1086
00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:57,159
question should be yes and no.

1087
00:37:57,940 --> 00:37:58,440
Right?

1088
00:37:59,059 --> 00:37:59,559
Always.

1089
00:38:00,179 --> 00:38:02,420
It's if if it's ever gonna go one

1090
00:38:02,420 --> 00:38:04,500
way where it's definitive one way, it better

1091
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:05,400
be a no

1092
00:38:05,699 --> 00:38:07,964
rather than if it's yes, you're diluting and

1093
00:38:07,964 --> 00:38:09,585
you're blind to yourself. It's a situation.

1094
00:38:10,045 --> 00:38:12,125
You know what's funny? I have actually never

1095
00:38:12,125 --> 00:38:14,045
heard that. I like that because here's the

1096
00:38:14,045 --> 00:38:15,484
thing. So, like, if I'm gonna I'll I'll

1097
00:38:15,484 --> 00:38:17,005
be vulnerable with the audience and,

1098
00:38:18,204 --> 00:38:20,364
share share so, like, when you ask me

1099
00:38:20,364 --> 00:38:20,525
that,

1100
00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:23,890
it's a yes or no. The yes is,

1101
00:38:23,890 --> 00:38:25,489
oh, man. This is gonna be a blast.

1102
00:38:25,489 --> 00:38:27,030
This guy is a great time.

1103
00:38:27,410 --> 00:38:30,050
I love his outlook. He's everything's so light.

1104
00:38:30,050 --> 00:38:31,190
Nothing's so serious.

1105
00:38:31,809 --> 00:38:33,329
You know, he's well traveled. He well, you

1106
00:38:33,329 --> 00:38:35,030
know, so there's all these great things. And

1107
00:38:36,344 --> 00:38:38,045
he's got a desperate,

1108
00:38:38,505 --> 00:38:41,864
insatiable need for attention and validation, which just

1109
00:38:41,864 --> 00:38:43,585
scares the heck out of me because Yeah.

1110
00:38:43,784 --> 00:38:45,784
When I know be around that when I

1111
00:38:45,784 --> 00:38:47,784
know I'm gonna be collateral damage from that

1112
00:38:47,784 --> 00:38:49,769
kind of a relationship. Yeah. Yep. When he

1113
00:38:49,769 --> 00:38:50,910
when he is constantly

1114
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:53,309
not okay without

1115
00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:54,750
people,

1116
00:38:55,369 --> 00:38:56,750
some of which being women,

1117
00:38:57,849 --> 00:39:00,090
telling him how awesome he is and making

1118
00:39:00,090 --> 00:39:02,269
these, you know, comments, gestures,

1119
00:39:03,335 --> 00:39:06,234
sometimes even an invitation or a proposition. Right?

1120
00:39:06,534 --> 00:39:09,094
Like, if he's living for that, which that

1121
00:39:09,094 --> 00:39:11,734
part of me is absolutely living for that,

1122
00:39:11,734 --> 00:39:13,335
would I wanna be with me? And the

1123
00:39:13,335 --> 00:39:15,974
answer is no. Knowing what I know about

1124
00:39:15,974 --> 00:39:17,994
what I've done and what I'm capable of,

1125
00:39:18,030 --> 00:39:20,190
I I would not wanna marry me. Right?

1126
00:39:20,510 --> 00:39:24,030
Now, obviously, this is pre recovery. Now post

1127
00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:24,530
recovery,

1128
00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:26,769
I'll be honest, those things are not gone.

1129
00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:28,690
My instinct,

1130
00:39:29,309 --> 00:39:31,710
every time I see a a a a

1131
00:39:31,710 --> 00:39:34,244
a very, very, very attractive woman is, did

1132
00:39:34,244 --> 00:39:36,164
she see me? Did she look at me

1133
00:39:36,164 --> 00:39:37,924
and give me that look? And I I

1134
00:39:37,924 --> 00:39:39,844
do not wanna think that. I do not

1135
00:39:39,844 --> 00:39:41,844
want that. That's not healthy for me. That's

1136
00:39:41,844 --> 00:39:43,684
not healthy for her. It's not healthy for

1137
00:39:43,684 --> 00:39:46,005
my wife. It's not healthy for even if

1138
00:39:46,005 --> 00:39:47,684
I didn't wasn't in this relationship and I

1139
00:39:47,684 --> 00:39:49,449
got into another relationship, I wouldn't want that

1140
00:39:49,449 --> 00:39:51,369
for that relationship, and I wouldn't want this

1141
00:39:51,369 --> 00:39:53,050
done to me on the flip side.

1142
00:39:53,369 --> 00:39:55,369
But that's that's that's the that's the battle

1143
00:39:55,369 --> 00:39:57,130
that we're fighting. And I am now I'm

1144
00:39:57,130 --> 00:39:59,449
honest with my wife about those parts of

1145
00:39:59,449 --> 00:40:01,289
me, and that's where we're kind of in

1146
00:40:01,289 --> 00:40:03,164
this together. That's back to kind of that

1147
00:40:03,164 --> 00:40:05,565
Esther Perel quote. Hey. The old marriage is

1148
00:40:05,565 --> 00:40:07,485
dead. So now that you're with a guy

1149
00:40:07,485 --> 00:40:09,565
like this, what's that mean? Right? What are

1150
00:40:09,565 --> 00:40:11,965
the new rules? Yeah. That's the that's being

1151
00:40:11,965 --> 00:40:13,805
honest, but it's also important, I think, Roland,

1152
00:40:13,805 --> 00:40:15,805
to realize. That's being honest with myself in

1153
00:40:15,805 --> 00:40:16,605
the sense that the the

1154
00:40:18,359 --> 00:40:20,199
I don't like this phraseology, but I this

1155
00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,199
what comes to mind. The skill set I

1156
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:23,019
would use

1157
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,980
to get glances at people that were inappropriate

1158
00:40:26,839 --> 00:40:28,679
are also the same kind of skill sets

1159
00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:31,400
I can use to not do that stuff.

1160
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,139
Yeah. Correct.

1161
00:40:32,759 --> 00:40:35,135
Right? Because you see the girl walk in

1162
00:40:35,135 --> 00:40:37,135
and it's like, she is not wearing enough,

1163
00:40:37,135 --> 00:40:39,934
and it immediately registers. Okay. Well, I can

1164
00:40:39,934 --> 00:40:42,355
either position myself to get more views,

1165
00:40:42,734 --> 00:40:43,234
or

1166
00:40:43,695 --> 00:40:45,934
I know who's I know what's coming. Why

1167
00:40:45,934 --> 00:40:48,730
don't I position myself better to be in

1168
00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:50,570
line with who I wanna be? Yeah. It's

1169
00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:52,570
the it's the the addicts, they say play

1170
00:40:52,570 --> 00:40:54,329
the tape. Right? Like, play the tape through.

1171
00:40:54,329 --> 00:40:56,329
You know where this goes. Like, you know,

1172
00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:57,690
so if that's the kind of guy and

1173
00:40:57,690 --> 00:41:01,150
you keep doing that and doing hamstring curls

1174
00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:03,070
be even though it wasn't even leg day

1175
00:41:03,215 --> 00:41:04,655
so that you can get a you know,

1176
00:41:04,655 --> 00:41:06,255
do you really wanna be like like, play

1177
00:41:06,255 --> 00:41:07,695
that tape through and see where that

1178
00:41:08,494 --> 00:41:10,255
Yeah. Because that's the whole thing is that's

1179
00:41:10,255 --> 00:41:12,574
the stuff I can keep hidden to other

1180
00:41:12,574 --> 00:41:15,454
people. Mhmm. I can't hide it to myself.

1181
00:41:15,454 --> 00:41:18,160
Mhmm. Mhmm. And so when I use that

1182
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,079
as a litmus test I mean, I ask

1183
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:23,039
myself this most every day of what I

1184
00:41:23,039 --> 00:41:24,880
wanna be married to me. And the other

1185
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,719
question is if I was married to me,

1186
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,480
what would I want me to be working

1187
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:28,844
on?

1188
00:41:29,885 --> 00:41:31,804
Yeah. That would be a good one. Yeah.

1189
00:41:31,804 --> 00:41:34,684
Because it's like, hang on, dude. You're you're

1190
00:41:34,684 --> 00:41:37,885
slacking here, and nobody knows I'm slacking except

1191
00:41:37,885 --> 00:41:39,585
me. So it's like, k.

1192
00:41:40,045 --> 00:41:42,204
How about I actually do something about that

1193
00:41:42,204 --> 00:41:44,699
rather than just expecting my wife to swallow

1194
00:41:44,699 --> 00:41:45,199
it

1195
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:48,859
and be pleased Yeah. Or something rather no.

1196
00:41:48,859 --> 00:41:51,500
Because that's the part that truly is the

1197
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:52,000
undeveloped.

1198
00:41:53,019 --> 00:41:55,179
I need to refine it and make it

1199
00:41:55,179 --> 00:41:56,940
what it is. And, again, it's not about

1200
00:41:56,940 --> 00:42:00,394
perfection. It's to me, it's about I know

1201
00:42:00,394 --> 00:42:01,775
both sides of me.

1202
00:42:02,394 --> 00:42:04,315
Mhmm. Yeah. And I don't let one wreak

1203
00:42:04,315 --> 00:42:05,054
wreak havoc

1204
00:42:05,675 --> 00:42:07,675
because it's unchecked or I'm blind to it.

1205
00:42:07,675 --> 00:42:09,355
Because if I see it and do nothing

1206
00:42:09,355 --> 00:42:11,295
about it, that's a different level of cruelty.

1207
00:42:11,594 --> 00:42:13,670
Mhmm. It's a it it is. It's a

1208
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:15,269
you know, they call or they you know,

1209
00:42:15,269 --> 00:42:17,109
one of the words I like from doctor

1210
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:18,409
Manwala, he calls it,

1211
00:42:18,949 --> 00:42:19,929
integrity abuse.

1212
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:22,069
Yeah. Right? And you can intake you can,

1213
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:23,829
you know, the thing about integrity abuse is

1214
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:25,994
it abuses two people. It abuses your wife.

1215
00:42:25,994 --> 00:42:27,994
Sure. But, you know, you violating your own

1216
00:42:27,994 --> 00:42:28,494
integrity,

1217
00:42:28,795 --> 00:42:30,474
that should bother you too. I mean, that,

1218
00:42:30,474 --> 00:42:32,315
you know, that that should you shouldn't be

1219
00:42:32,315 --> 00:42:33,755
okay with that. You know? If it doesn't

1220
00:42:33,755 --> 00:42:36,255
bother you, then it's not integrity. Yeah. Exactly.

1221
00:42:36,554 --> 00:42:38,795
And that which I I I appreciate you

1222
00:42:38,795 --> 00:42:39,934
bringing that up because

1223
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:41,539
there is

1224
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,559
people think integrity and honesty are are the

1225
00:42:44,559 --> 00:42:47,119
same thing. They are not. Right? Honesty is

1226
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:48,260
telling truth. Integrity

1227
00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:49,940
is a a commitment

1228
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,480
to, like, I am I am this is

1229
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,160
this is who I am. I don't bend

1230
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:54,644
this.

1231
00:42:55,284 --> 00:42:58,085
It doesn't matter what the circumstances. I'm committed

1232
00:42:58,085 --> 00:42:59,925
to this is this is the truth, my

1233
00:42:59,925 --> 00:43:00,425
truth.

1234
00:43:01,204 --> 00:43:03,364
Now your truth can change. You know, you

1235
00:43:03,364 --> 00:43:05,045
can learn something and be like, oh, okay.

1236
00:43:05,045 --> 00:43:06,965
I don't wanna believe that anymore. This is

1237
00:43:06,965 --> 00:43:09,545
truer for me. So and now you're integris

1238
00:43:10,099 --> 00:43:10,840
to that.

1239
00:43:11,140 --> 00:43:13,140
Right? And then it changes again. Now your

1240
00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:14,519
integrity is to that. It's

1241
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:15,800
where people

1242
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:18,019
what's not fair to yourself and for everybody

1243
00:43:18,019 --> 00:43:20,900
else is when that definition changes depending on

1244
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:23,159
who you're around. Right? Like, oh, integrity

1245
00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:25,335
was this when I'm on a family vacation,

1246
00:43:25,335 --> 00:43:26,875
but now I'm on a work vacation,

1247
00:43:27,894 --> 00:43:30,054
where I have no GPS tracking on my

1248
00:43:30,054 --> 00:43:31,894
phone. I can basically do whatever I want.

1249
00:43:31,894 --> 00:43:33,894
Now I have a new definition of integrity

1250
00:43:33,894 --> 00:43:35,815
for this. Right? Come on. That's that's not

1251
00:43:35,815 --> 00:43:37,994
how it works. So my my final question

1252
00:43:38,295 --> 00:43:38,795
in

1253
00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:41,960
why

1254
00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:45,380
why relationships? You know? There are guys without

1255
00:43:45,380 --> 00:43:47,780
question listening to this who are like, man,

1256
00:43:47,780 --> 00:43:49,940
screw this. Like, I I can't I can't

1257
00:43:49,940 --> 00:43:51,480
do this anymore. I'm I'm

1258
00:43:51,795 --> 00:43:53,474
I'm gonna get out. I'm just gonna I'm

1259
00:43:53,474 --> 00:43:55,074
gonna I'm gonna do the single life. I'm

1260
00:43:55,074 --> 00:43:55,734
gonna do,

1261
00:43:56,194 --> 00:43:58,034
I'm just not gonna get married again. What

1262
00:43:58,034 --> 00:44:00,614
do you say to guys who state that,

1263
00:44:01,074 --> 00:44:02,594
who state that case? Because I do. I

1264
00:44:02,594 --> 00:44:03,974
hear it. I hear it, unfortunately,

1265
00:44:04,355 --> 00:44:04,855
often.

1266
00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:07,420
Well, I'm I'm not gonna talk anybody out

1267
00:44:07,420 --> 00:44:08,700
of wanting to be single if that's what

1268
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:09,599
they wanna be.

1269
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:10,640
I mean, that

1270
00:44:11,019 --> 00:44:13,900
okay. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing

1271
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:14,400
broken

1272
00:44:15,019 --> 00:44:15,840
with that.

1273
00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:19,519
I I use the equation though

1274
00:44:20,140 --> 00:44:20,300
of

1275
00:44:21,835 --> 00:44:23,695
and this is my values that I'm gonna

1276
00:44:24,315 --> 00:44:26,575
based off of this off of Roland is

1277
00:44:26,715 --> 00:44:29,375
I believe in marriage and a monogamous

1278
00:44:29,675 --> 00:44:30,175
relationship

1279
00:44:30,635 --> 00:44:32,255
because it takes you places

1280
00:44:32,954 --> 00:44:33,454
sexually.

1281
00:44:33,835 --> 00:44:34,815
You can't go

1282
00:44:35,570 --> 00:44:37,110
otherwise. Because there is

1283
00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:38,869
without fail

1284
00:44:39,489 --> 00:44:39,989
repeatedly

1285
00:44:40,369 --> 00:44:41,269
over the last

1286
00:44:41,650 --> 00:44:43,889
two decades, I've been following this. I've come

1287
00:44:43,889 --> 00:44:46,130
across three different times where they've updated this

1288
00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:46,630
study.

1289
00:44:47,250 --> 00:44:49,909
The most sexually satisfied people

1290
00:44:50,555 --> 00:44:52,414
are those in long term relationships.

1291
00:44:53,675 --> 00:44:57,055
And those the times the the the median

1292
00:44:57,195 --> 00:44:57,695
age

1293
00:44:58,474 --> 00:44:59,215
of that,

1294
00:44:59,755 --> 00:45:01,295
you wanna guess what that is?

1295
00:45:01,994 --> 00:45:02,894
Oh, gosh.

1296
00:45:05,889 --> 00:45:06,710
51?

1297
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:09,969
55. That's pretty close. Right. So I'm two

1298
00:45:09,969 --> 00:45:12,050
years from from it right now at the

1299
00:45:12,050 --> 00:45:13,809
time of this recording. I'm really excited about

1300
00:45:13,809 --> 00:45:15,489
that because it's like, wait. I still got

1301
00:45:15,489 --> 00:45:16,550
more. You're primed.

1302
00:45:17,090 --> 00:45:20,114
Because there's an element of when we age

1303
00:45:20,114 --> 00:45:21,735
and we have a knownness

1304
00:45:22,195 --> 00:45:23,335
with our spouse,

1305
00:45:24,355 --> 00:45:27,074
there's a different level of what goes on

1306
00:45:27,074 --> 00:45:28,914
sexually with each other. Because it's not about

1307
00:45:28,914 --> 00:45:30,675
what you're doing, it's who you are in

1308
00:45:30,675 --> 00:45:31,974
the doing it together.

1309
00:45:32,570 --> 00:45:34,909
And as we age, we also oftentimes

1310
00:45:35,449 --> 00:45:37,849
become much more comfortable in our own skin.

1311
00:45:37,849 --> 00:45:39,929
Mhmm. For sure, women do. I mean, that's

1312
00:45:39,929 --> 00:45:42,409
why women's prime, quote, unquote, sexually speaking, is

1313
00:45:42,409 --> 00:45:43,789
in their forties and fifties

1314
00:45:44,409 --> 00:45:46,409
overall just because it's like they kinda know

1315
00:45:46,409 --> 00:45:48,864
who they are at that point. And there's

1316
00:45:48,864 --> 00:45:50,164
really not a much shame

1317
00:45:50,465 --> 00:45:53,184
or inhibition in some ways. They still got

1318
00:45:53,184 --> 00:45:54,625
things they gotta face, and it's not like

1319
00:45:54,625 --> 00:45:56,144
it's a huge free for all for all

1320
00:45:56,144 --> 00:45:58,625
women. But it's still there's a different kind

1321
00:45:58,625 --> 00:46:01,184
of prowess to them Mhmm. Than somebody who's

1322
00:46:01,184 --> 00:46:03,960
trying to figure who they are out. Mhmm.

1323
00:46:04,420 --> 00:46:06,260
And guys are the same way. I don't

1324
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:07,860
know if we ever really figure out no

1325
00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:08,860
guy will say this, but I don't know

1326
00:46:08,860 --> 00:46:11,380
if we ever really figure ourselves out. But

1327
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:12,739
we start to get to a point where

1328
00:46:12,739 --> 00:46:15,400
it's like, yeah, I'm more comfortable. And, unfortunately,

1329
00:46:15,619 --> 00:46:17,559
for a lot of guys, it happens when

1330
00:46:18,155 --> 00:46:19,614
the the sexual prime

1331
00:46:19,994 --> 00:46:20,494
hormonally

1332
00:46:21,195 --> 00:46:22,795
is starting to fade. But it's like it

1333
00:46:22,795 --> 00:46:24,875
doesn't matter at that point because now it's

1334
00:46:24,875 --> 00:46:25,534
a true

1335
00:46:25,994 --> 00:46:28,954
joining of spirits, tasting the essences of each

1336
00:46:28,954 --> 00:46:29,454
other

1337
00:46:29,914 --> 00:46:31,775
that's so much more profound

1338
00:46:32,460 --> 00:46:34,239
than just an act. Mhmm.

1339
00:46:34,859 --> 00:46:36,539
It's a what what I would say to

1340
00:46:36,539 --> 00:46:37,440
that that

1341
00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:38,960
for the guys

1342
00:46:39,340 --> 00:46:41,019
because I agree with I agree with everything

1343
00:46:41,019 --> 00:46:41,760
you're saying

1344
00:46:42,139 --> 00:46:43,280
except for

1345
00:46:43,579 --> 00:46:45,465
what if you don't know what sex is?

1346
00:46:46,425 --> 00:46:47,405
And now

1347
00:46:47,945 --> 00:46:49,325
I've had a ton of intercourse.

1348
00:46:50,105 --> 00:46:52,425
I have not I don't know if I

1349
00:46:52,425 --> 00:46:54,985
have had sex yet, to be completely honest

1350
00:46:54,985 --> 00:46:56,585
with you. Yeah. I think my wife are

1351
00:46:56,585 --> 00:46:58,045
getting and I are getting close.

1352
00:46:59,489 --> 00:47:01,170
You know, I've definitely I think I've had

1353
00:47:01,170 --> 00:47:03,110
maybe a little couple sensations

1354
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:04,309
from what

1355
00:47:04,610 --> 00:47:07,170
I've grown to understand sex might feel like.

1356
00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:08,630
This this really,

1357
00:47:10,210 --> 00:47:11,190
kinda like scary

1358
00:47:11,585 --> 00:47:13,984
closeness almost. It's this it's this it's a

1359
00:47:13,984 --> 00:47:16,625
very, you know, vulnerable is the the word

1360
00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:18,005
to describe it. It's this

1361
00:47:18,304 --> 00:47:20,304
it's this feeling that I I get with

1362
00:47:20,304 --> 00:47:23,284
her sometimes when we're having real sex that

1363
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:24,739
part of me wonders,

1364
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,400
you know, I've got a bunch to I

1365
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:27,460
got a lot to lose.

1366
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,000
I've got I could contract something from her.

1367
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,079
She could she could be sleeping with me

1368
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:33,679
and then be sleeping with somebody else. Right?

1369
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:35,360
Imagine how these this is why these women

1370
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,640
feel the way they feel. Right?

1371
00:47:37,304 --> 00:47:38,744
But I do. I've had a lot of

1372
00:47:38,744 --> 00:47:40,984
intercourse, and I don't think I've had a

1373
00:47:40,984 --> 00:47:43,304
lot of sex slash maybe don't know if

1374
00:47:43,304 --> 00:47:45,464
I've had sex yet. And so I think

1375
00:47:45,464 --> 00:47:45,964
that's

1376
00:47:46,585 --> 00:47:47,944
the hang up for, I think, me and

1377
00:47:47,944 --> 00:47:49,744
even a lot of other guys is Mhmm.

1378
00:47:50,105 --> 00:47:52,105
If I don't know what I'm missing out

1379
00:47:52,105 --> 00:47:52,605
on,

1380
00:47:53,309 --> 00:47:56,190
then it actually is quite if intercourse is

1381
00:47:56,190 --> 00:47:57,090
the pinnacle,

1382
00:47:57,869 --> 00:48:00,590
then I can have that elsewhere. Right? And

1383
00:48:00,590 --> 00:48:02,190
so I think Oh, sure. That's kind of

1384
00:48:02,190 --> 00:48:05,275
the that's the thing that the only not

1385
00:48:05,275 --> 00:48:06,635
the only reason, but one of the main

1386
00:48:06,635 --> 00:48:08,315
reasons I'm hanging in there in a really

1387
00:48:08,315 --> 00:48:10,875
big way is I've grown in in recovery.

1388
00:48:10,875 --> 00:48:12,954
I have grown to understand that there are

1389
00:48:12,954 --> 00:48:15,775
aspects of sex and relationship and just intimacy

1390
00:48:16,315 --> 00:48:18,420
that I have not experienced yet. And I

1391
00:48:18,420 --> 00:48:21,139
know that if I don't get into a

1392
00:48:21,139 --> 00:48:23,139
long term relationship and what better one than

1393
00:48:23,139 --> 00:48:25,619
this? What better one than the one who

1394
00:48:25,619 --> 00:48:27,719
knows everything about me? She knows

1395
00:48:28,099 --> 00:48:28,599
everything

1396
00:48:29,059 --> 00:48:32,485
about me now. So what better environment than

1397
00:48:33,025 --> 00:48:33,684
to get

1398
00:48:33,985 --> 00:48:36,325
that thing that everyone talks about that's just

1399
00:48:36,545 --> 00:48:37,285
so wonderful?

1400
00:48:37,664 --> 00:48:39,265
What better place to get that than from

1401
00:48:39,265 --> 00:48:41,265
the woman who you betrayed? Because, I mean,

1402
00:48:41,265 --> 00:48:43,345
you know, talk about somebody who knows every

1403
00:48:43,345 --> 00:48:45,000
little bit of you. It's that. But that's

1404
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,539
that's what I would say back to that

1405
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,840
is I hear you, but it's hard for

1406
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,760
my little brain to wrap my head around

1407
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,400
that because I just I I I still

1408
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,739
don't know if I know what sex is.

1409
00:48:56,679 --> 00:48:57,960
And so it's hard for me to feel

1410
00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,994
like I'm missing out on it because, frankly,

1411
00:48:59,994 --> 00:49:01,914
I don't know if I've experienced it. Yeah.

1412
00:49:01,914 --> 00:49:04,315
Yeah. Because that what you're describing is far

1413
00:49:04,315 --> 00:49:07,755
beyond just a biological thing. Yeah. It's a

1414
00:49:07,755 --> 00:49:08,734
it's a transcendent

1415
00:49:09,034 --> 00:49:10,875
kind of a thing. Doctor Schnarsh referred to

1416
00:49:10,875 --> 00:49:13,559
it as wall socket sex. Mhmm. You're you're

1417
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:15,800
plugged into something that's like, well, there's a

1418
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:16,860
different energy.

1419
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,719
There's a different essence. There's a different presence.

1420
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,660
I love the concept of it's a spiritual

1421
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,940
component. Yep. I believe God created it. So,

1422
00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:28,514
he's there too. There's no shame. He's actually

1423
00:49:28,514 --> 00:49:30,994
excited about what's happening too if you have

1424
00:49:30,994 --> 00:49:33,315
a biblical framework along with you know? So

1425
00:49:33,315 --> 00:49:35,394
it's just this element of yeah. It's a

1426
00:49:35,394 --> 00:49:38,674
it's a knowing of each other Mhmm. And

1427
00:49:38,674 --> 00:49:40,594
being known by each other. And a lot

1428
00:49:40,594 --> 00:49:41,335
of the ways

1429
00:49:41,635 --> 00:49:43,170
to start that is,

1430
00:49:43,889 --> 00:49:47,250
eyes open Yeah. With each other and, like,

1431
00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:50,069
look into each other's eyes during sex.

1432
00:49:50,769 --> 00:49:51,269
And

1433
00:49:52,050 --> 00:49:53,250
some people are gonna be like, what are

1434
00:49:53,250 --> 00:49:54,530
you talking about? I've never opened my eyes

1435
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:56,449
during sex. Yeah. There's a lot of people

1436
00:49:56,449 --> 00:49:58,454
that don't. Mhmm. Well, one of the ways

1437
00:49:58,454 --> 00:49:59,894
you start to do that is you up

1438
00:49:59,894 --> 00:50:01,894
your eye contact. Maybe not during sex and

1439
00:50:01,894 --> 00:50:04,454
other areas of your life too because that's

1440
00:50:04,454 --> 00:50:06,474
an intimate level. That's a connection

1441
00:50:07,094 --> 00:50:09,434
that's so much deeper and more profound

1442
00:50:09,974 --> 00:50:12,875
than genital. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Combine them,

1443
00:50:13,170 --> 00:50:15,089
man, you you get you get a power

1444
00:50:15,089 --> 00:50:17,489
source that that truly starts to become this

1445
00:50:17,489 --> 00:50:19,809
thing of, like, oh, hold on. I had

1446
00:50:19,809 --> 00:50:20,550
no idea.

1447
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:22,849
Well, the thing goes for the relationship. Right?

1448
00:50:22,849 --> 00:50:24,945
You can have a relationship that's not intimate.

1449
00:50:25,105 --> 00:50:27,765
Mhmm. Right? And so you add intimate connection

1450
00:50:27,905 --> 00:50:28,724
to the relationship

1451
00:50:30,065 --> 00:50:32,224
way different. Same thing and same with sex.

1452
00:50:32,224 --> 00:50:34,224
Right? You can do the you know, I've

1453
00:50:34,224 --> 00:50:36,385
heard it called pussy cock sex. You know,

1454
00:50:36,385 --> 00:50:38,239
just like, yeah, put the thing in the

1455
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,480
thing and wiggle it around and, you know,

1456
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,000
and then be done with it. Right? But

1457
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,760
then there's this other element. You know, it's

1458
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,260
it's interesting you that you bring that up.

1459
00:50:47,519 --> 00:50:48,500
You know, it's

1460
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,639
I would say now that I feel like

1461
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:52,260
I'm getting closer to real sex,

1462
00:50:54,175 --> 00:50:56,494
it's less about the sex. I'm not even

1463
00:50:56,494 --> 00:50:59,155
really thinking about what position we're in

1464
00:50:59,454 --> 00:51:01,695
or what one I'm gonna do next. It's

1465
00:51:01,695 --> 00:51:02,835
more about, like,

1466
00:51:03,295 --> 00:51:04,815
we could be in the same one position

1467
00:51:04,815 --> 00:51:06,175
the whole time and just be really locked

1468
00:51:06,175 --> 00:51:08,099
in in each other. Right? And and, you

1469
00:51:08,099 --> 00:51:10,339
know, with ample amounts of of intimate, you

1470
00:51:10,339 --> 00:51:12,679
know, foreplay and setting the stage. Right? So,

1471
00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:15,059
it's it's in yeah. As you're bringing that

1472
00:51:15,059 --> 00:51:16,659
up, you know, I I think I can't

1473
00:51:16,819 --> 00:51:18,260
you know, and and for guys guys, it's

1474
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:19,880
the difference between porn,

1475
00:51:20,579 --> 00:51:21,319
sex worker,

1476
00:51:22,074 --> 00:51:23,914
a fair partner, white. Right? But you can

1477
00:51:23,914 --> 00:51:26,635
feel the difference in those different areas, and

1478
00:51:26,635 --> 00:51:28,974
it's because, yeah, with each one, we're stripping

1479
00:51:29,035 --> 00:51:31,675
the humanity front, and it just doesn't quite

1480
00:51:31,675 --> 00:51:32,175
feel

1481
00:51:32,635 --> 00:51:34,994
Yeah. You know, soon, it's just getting Yeah.

1482
00:51:35,114 --> 00:51:36,750
Belittled down to an orgasm. Right?

1483
00:51:37,309 --> 00:51:39,309
Brother, this was a this was a freaking

1484
00:51:39,309 --> 00:51:40,289
killer conversation.

1485
00:51:40,750 --> 00:51:42,829
I knew it would be. Definitely gonna put

1486
00:51:42,829 --> 00:51:45,150
you, with your permission, put you on the

1487
00:51:45,150 --> 00:51:47,230
on the on the, on the schedule for

1488
00:51:47,230 --> 00:51:48,829
six months from now and do it again

1489
00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:50,750
because I think Sure. We didn't even scratch

1490
00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:52,535
the surface on all the stuff that you

1491
00:51:52,614 --> 00:51:54,535
because I know you, you're doing a lot

1492
00:51:54,535 --> 00:51:56,535
of work with, men, and I would love

1493
00:51:56,535 --> 00:51:58,135
to dive into a lot of the conversations

1494
00:51:58,135 --> 00:52:00,614
that you and those guys have because, you

1495
00:52:00,614 --> 00:52:02,695
know, there is this other element of being

1496
00:52:02,695 --> 00:52:04,454
a kick ass husband and we all wanna

1497
00:52:04,454 --> 00:52:07,019
be one, but, you know, it's a skill.

1498
00:52:07,099 --> 00:52:08,940
It's not it's not inherent. It's something you

1499
00:52:08,940 --> 00:52:10,059
have to learn how to do, and it's

1500
00:52:10,059 --> 00:52:11,659
cultural, and it changes. So,

1501
00:52:12,140 --> 00:52:13,659
bunch of more conversations that you and I

1502
00:52:13,659 --> 00:52:14,400
need to have.

1503
00:52:15,019 --> 00:52:16,940
If somebody wants to work with you, get

1504
00:52:16,940 --> 00:52:18,219
a hold of you, talk to us about

1505
00:52:18,219 --> 00:52:20,619
the different offerings that you have, outside of

1506
00:52:20,619 --> 00:52:23,054
just the podcast, but please, restate the podcast

1507
00:52:23,054 --> 00:52:24,414
and where they can find it and then

1508
00:52:24,414 --> 00:52:25,695
any other thing else that you have. Yeah.

1509
00:52:25,695 --> 00:52:27,775
So the easiest way if you Google sexy

1510
00:52:27,775 --> 00:52:29,855
marriage radio, it that's we're the only one

1511
00:52:29,855 --> 00:52:31,534
with that title, so it's pretty easy to

1512
00:52:31,534 --> 00:52:33,215
find us. We've been around so long. It's

1513
00:52:33,295 --> 00:52:34,894
should be the very thing that comes up.

1514
00:52:35,215 --> 00:52:36,900
Smr.fm

1515
00:52:36,980 --> 00:52:39,460
is the web address. That's the only address

1516
00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:40,920
I've got. So

1517
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:43,559
everything we have is there. And

1518
00:52:44,099 --> 00:52:45,940
within the nation, which is what we call

1519
00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:47,400
the sexy marriage radio nation,

1520
00:52:48,339 --> 00:52:50,324
there's I I do groups with men, which

1521
00:52:50,324 --> 00:52:52,724
are husband mastermind groups. Those go twice a

1522
00:52:52,724 --> 00:52:53,525
year. Mhmm.

1523
00:52:54,244 --> 00:52:56,724
There's also a membership, which is the academy,

1524
00:52:56,724 --> 00:52:58,885
and that's a deeper level of listeners and

1525
00:52:58,885 --> 00:53:01,204
support and interaction. That's male, female, lots of

1526
00:53:01,204 --> 00:53:02,724
couples that are in there. We do monthly

1527
00:53:02,724 --> 00:53:04,750
coaching calls as part of that. And then

1528
00:53:04,750 --> 00:53:06,130
the podcast comes out,

1529
00:53:06,750 --> 00:53:07,570
every Wednesday.

1530
00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:10,510
There's two different versions, a regular and an

1531
00:53:10,510 --> 00:53:12,989
extended. Members get the extended content, which just

1532
00:53:12,989 --> 00:53:14,510
goes deeper and is more personal a lot

1533
00:53:14,510 --> 00:53:15,489
of times or

1534
00:53:15,789 --> 00:53:18,375
more academic or something. You know? So, but,

1535
00:53:18,375 --> 00:53:20,135
yes, s m r dot f m, I'm

1536
00:53:20,135 --> 00:53:21,594
very, very easy to find.

1537
00:53:22,215 --> 00:53:24,695
Just start there. Yeah. Awesome stuff, man. This

1538
00:53:24,695 --> 00:53:26,554
was great. I appreciate your time, man.

1539
00:53:27,815 --> 00:53:30,054
Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

1540
00:53:30,054 --> 00:53:31,815
are a high achiever with the sex addiction

1541
00:53:31,815 --> 00:53:33,550
and you're looking for a recovery group full

1542
00:53:33,550 --> 00:53:36,670
of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

1543
00:53:36,670 --> 00:53:39,469
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1544
00:53:39,469 --> 00:53:40,769
using four day retreats,

1545
00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:43,949
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

1546
00:53:43,949 --> 00:53:46,125
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

1547
00:53:46,125 --> 00:53:48,045
save your marriage, go to our website and

1548
00:53:48,045 --> 00:53:50,364
fill out an application. If you enjoyed this

1549
00:53:50,364 --> 00:53:52,605
episode, please pass it along to a friend

1550
00:53:52,605 --> 00:53:54,525
in recovery who would benefit from listening. It

1551
00:53:54,525 --> 00:53:56,364
is my mission to get this information out

1552
00:53:56,364 --> 00:53:57,585
to as many high achievers

1553
00:53:57,885 --> 00:53:59,644
as possible, and I can't do it without

1554
00:53:59,644 --> 00:54:00,385
your help.