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This is not a short process. Right? Two

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years, three years, four years, five years. You've

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heard the data.

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Right? Couples who are going through this, it's

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it's not a short thing. I mean, this

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is big. When you betray your wife's trust

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sexually,

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this is not something that's simple for her

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to overcome. Right? We're talking about survival level

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threats here. Right? Safety,

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trust. I mean, sleeping next to somebody, having

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kids, sharing house, sharing bank accounts with somebody

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who you no longer trust. This is this

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is not a small feat. And then for

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the guys, you know, it's it's hard for

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them. Right? Here's your soul mate, and she

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is looking over your shoulder, spying on you,

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second guessing if you're actually telling her the

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truth.

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Right? You know, your marriage doesn't really look

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like the marriage that you once had. This

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is hard on both people, and it's really

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hard after that second year. You know, you

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head into the year three, year four. I

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mean, you know, this is tough. Right? None

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of us signed up for something so hard,

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and that burnout is a very, very real

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thing. So what can you guys do as

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a couple

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to lean in with everything you got? Because

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you got to. I mean, if you if

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you're gonna recover this marriage, you guys have

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gotta lean in with everything you have.

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But again, doing that for year after year

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after year, that can be hard. Right? So

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in this podcast, we're gonna talk about how

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do you continue to lean in for multiple

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years over. Right? How do you avoid burnout?

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How do you honor this marriage? Honor your

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soulmate so you guys can get back to

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what looks like a thriving marriage in the

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future.

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You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

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for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

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recovery principles

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specifically to the mindset of the high achiever.

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I'm your host, Roland Cochran, founder of The

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Successful Addict, a recovery group for high achieving

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men struggling with sex and porn addiction. For

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more information about joining our group or attending

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our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

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Welcome to the show, everybody. I am here

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with Corey Anderson. Corey, we're talking about something

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that has actually come up a decent amount

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on the podcast and it's because it's a

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it's an issue in our in our recovery

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groups. So let's talk about hanging in there

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because Sure. Really that

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I wanna frame for everybody why we're having

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this topic. It's not just to save your

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marriage. Guys, if you're not hanging in there,

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your recovery is gonna be trash as well.

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Right? I mean, hanging in there and I

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don't mean hanging in there. I mean, like,

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actively on the horse participating

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and excited to participate, which I can if

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you are listening to this and you're like,

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why what's exciting about recovery? It should be.

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If it's not if it's not exciting, you're

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seeing the wrong you're you're doing it wrong.

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It's just there there's there's better ways to

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do this. You know, all the guys in

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my recovery group look forward to our weekly

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meeting. Yeah. Gauging. It should be meaningful work.

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Right? Exactly. Exactly.

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It's, we'll talk more about that later, I'm

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sure. But,

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but let's get started. Corey, what would you

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say,

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you know, frame for everybody just so they

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can hear you empathize a little bit with

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how brutal this is before we start diving

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into the details of it? Yeah. Sure. It's

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it's such a a tough topic like you're

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bringing up. It's close to my heart. I

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end up working with guys either individually or

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I love doing couples work as well in

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this area and

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you know this is that place where okay

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your past disclosure maybe, you know your past

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showing some sobriety and health there

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and maybe,

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you and your journey are feeling like, yeah,

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I'm doing this. I'm I'm getting it. I'm

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I'm feeling great actually. Right? Like, a lot

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of guys at this place, they're feeling the

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serenity, they're feeling camaraderie even maybe some with

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their brothers in recovery,

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but then they, you know, go home or

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they have a conversation with their wife and

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it's the quote unquote same old thing. Right?

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Oh, you did this. You were such a

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blank. You're such a you know? And and

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she's trying to share her pain and hurt

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with with the person and with you. And

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and,

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again, like you're saying, it's more than just

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hanging in there.

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I like the visual of, like, leaning in,

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you know? So it's

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brutal because the first inclination when we're attacked,

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well, maybe is fight, you know, but fight

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or flight. And usually in these cases, it's

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kinda that pull back and, like, I can't

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handle this. I'm

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I'm backing up and you're doing the Homer

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Simpson shrinking into the shrubbery kinda gift.

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And so instead, it's about leaning in. And

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that becomes so tough and you need the

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support of, some good, good recovery program, good

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therapist, good people around you, be able to

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hang in. Also, even having the hope that

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it's gonna work. Yeah. The hope that will

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how long do I have to hang into

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this place? How much of this can I

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tolerate? I don't know much more. You know,

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I hear that all the time.

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And so I love being an encouragement and

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being there right alongside these guys going, yeah,

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I got your back, and you're right where

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you're supposed to be. And she's where she's

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supposed to be, and,

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let's get her some more resources if we

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can, maybe,

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you know, and seeing what we can do

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to to keep bringing it to you. Let's

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start there. I think that's a great place

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to start is,

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you know, it it's tough to be in

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limbo, and no one likes to be in

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limbo. And

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you're in limbo in this. I mean, it's

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just there's no other way around it. No

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one can tell you how long this is

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gonna take. There's way too many factors. Just

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to give guys an idea of

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what what I mean by factors is, you

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know, for I always use my life for

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example. It's just a lot easier to speak

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to my own, example,

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with my wife and I. So my wife

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had a plethora of experiences as a child

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that were,

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where she was objectified essentially by her parents.

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This is how to be perfect. This is

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how to look perfect. Right? So there's a

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lot of this perfection. She was raised in

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a very purity,

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culture of a very, you know, kind of

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pretty extreme,

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religious purity kind of values. Work a lot

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in that community too. Yeah. Same for me.

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I was I was raised in the LDS,

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church.

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And so same thing for me. Right? So

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her and I are coming. We have that

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background, right, where there's all this shame around

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a lot of this. Okay. Period. Judgment. Right?

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And judgment. No doubt. Right?

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Then we fast forward, right, and we go

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into, like, more modern day traumas. She had,

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I'm not gonna get into her business, but

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she had something extremely traumatic happen to her

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in her early twenties.

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And then I had, something traumatic happen to

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me. I was arrested for my sex addiction

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when I was 14 years old.

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And so you have these events, right? Now,

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here we are, fast forward, we're together, I

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get discovered

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and all of this is coming up. My

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distrust of, you know, oh, everybody's the same,

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nobody has room for the complexities and my

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trauma, they're just gonna cast judgment. On her

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end, this is, like, the car this is

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the big I have to leave him. I

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have to divorce him. This is I I

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always

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told myself I would leave a guy who

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did this to me. So my point is,

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as you keep piling on these factors,

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it will impact your recovery. Now one thing

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I just wanna get very, very clear, in

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no way am I saying that all the

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things that

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all these factors have to extend this. I

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did not say that. Mhmm. They have to

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be dealt with. And

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sometimes if you're busy and you guys have

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three or four kids and you both work

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and you're involved in all these, then, yeah,

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maybe this could take some time because you're

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gonna be getting to these things a lot

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later. But that's, you know, from a time

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frame standpoint, I just wanna empathize with everybody

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listening. I get it. It sucks to be

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in limbo,

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but this is a very

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place. I don't know. No one can give

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you a time stamp. And if they are

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giving you a time stamp,

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I don't know why they gave that to

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you because anybody who knows anything about this

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field knows better than that.

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But I do wanna say just repeat one

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more, you know, I you're gonna hear the

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common one that I've heard is three to

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five years from a relational standpoint.

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Guys and gals listening,

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don't get hung up on that crap. My

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wife and I went beast mode.

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Beast mode.

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And,

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I mean, I'm I'm not gonna lie. It

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still took it still took a really, really,

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really, really long time, but, I mean, we

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went we went all in on and I

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don't mean just checking off the boxes, I

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mean a ton of introspection,

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a ton of her challenging me, me challenging

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her.

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So I I just wanted to clear that

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up. It's a it sucks to be in

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limbo

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but you're gonna be in limbo. And I

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would say if you wanna get out of

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limbo, honor honor this process, honor everything you

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got, and it'll be as short as as

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short as it can be.

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Corey, when you speaking on the topic of

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timeline,

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would you frame this for people? Because again,

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we do see hope diminishing when you're in

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limbo. It's very hard to keep hope high

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in limbo. What's your response to that to

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people hanging in there? I think kinda like

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you're talking about with going beast mode, like,

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I talk and usually this is maybe a

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a guy earlier seeing me, earlier or a

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couple but

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this idea of kind of front loading versus

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kind of back end and you know a

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lot of people especially people struggle with addiction,

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they're used to the mindset of how little

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can I get away with? How little can

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I do and still be successful?

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And I mean the guys that I've seen

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really make great progress and really get into

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this space in a healthier way and and

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maybe be able to have the endurance

263
00:09:06,289 --> 00:09:08,209
to to take on the marathon of this

264
00:09:08,209 --> 00:09:08,709
limbo.

265
00:09:09,865 --> 00:09:12,105
They're jumping in with more than they need.

266
00:09:12,105 --> 00:09:13,704
They're doing more groups than they need. They're

267
00:09:13,704 --> 00:09:15,304
doing more therapy, you know, so to speak

268
00:09:15,304 --> 00:09:16,904
than you need. I know that's me coming

269
00:09:16,904 --> 00:09:18,985
from as a therapist saying more therapy than

270
00:09:18,985 --> 00:09:21,240
you need seems a little contradictory. But,

271
00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:24,839
anyways, they're going all in. Right? Finding stuff.

272
00:09:24,839 --> 00:09:27,559
If there's a RCA, like, recovering couples anonymous

273
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,659
meeting or, you know, some other,

274
00:09:30,759 --> 00:09:32,440
things that are appropriate for you to do

275
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,440
as a couple early on. You know, sometimes

276
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,440
we'll have couples come in right off the

277
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,254
bat just to meet and have kinda logistical

278
00:09:39,394 --> 00:09:41,315
discussions. What is going on for you two?

279
00:09:41,315 --> 00:09:43,315
We're not doing couples work. We're we're digging

280
00:09:43,315 --> 00:09:44,914
deep, but we're just trying to help a

281
00:09:44,914 --> 00:09:46,595
couple stabilize, be able to live with each

282
00:09:46,595 --> 00:09:48,595
other, or figure out if there's a in

283
00:09:48,595 --> 00:09:50,774
house operation or outhouse.

284
00:09:51,529 --> 00:09:53,070
It is outhouse for the guys.

285
00:09:53,610 --> 00:09:54,670
Yeah. Outhouse.

286
00:09:56,330 --> 00:09:57,070
Yeah. So

287
00:09:57,450 --> 00:09:59,050
during the limbo though, you know, I talk

288
00:09:59,050 --> 00:10:01,050
a lot maybe about tolerance, and we're looking

289
00:10:01,050 --> 00:10:03,070
at tolerance. We're looking at ways to build

290
00:10:03,914 --> 00:10:05,914
build some of those resources. This is a

291
00:10:05,914 --> 00:10:08,654
time to learn meditation, get good at that,

292
00:10:08,794 --> 00:10:11,595
prayer work on spiritual life, whatever that looks

293
00:10:11,595 --> 00:10:12,254
like and

294
00:10:13,355 --> 00:10:15,690
it in a way there's a parallel here

295
00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:18,250
to the guy's own work as to their

296
00:10:18,250 --> 00:10:20,350
work of being there for their spouse. Because

297
00:10:21,210 --> 00:10:21,950
one of the foundational

298
00:10:23,049 --> 00:10:25,450
pillars of recovery is you have to learn

299
00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:26,909
your own empathy for yourself.

300
00:10:27,370 --> 00:10:29,049
I and I know you had someone recently

301
00:10:29,049 --> 00:10:30,925
speaking about empathy and it sounds like an

302
00:10:30,925 --> 00:10:32,705
amazing podcast. So I'll have to listen to.

303
00:10:33,404 --> 00:10:34,845
But that's what I find first off the

304
00:10:34,845 --> 00:10:36,925
bat is so many guys are lacking empathy

305
00:10:36,925 --> 00:10:38,144
for themselves. And,

306
00:10:38,684 --> 00:10:40,605
you know, that's where the addiction comes in

307
00:10:40,605 --> 00:10:41,884
and and just beats you up more and

308
00:10:41,884 --> 00:10:43,585
the shame beats you up more. And,

309
00:10:44,740 --> 00:10:47,860
so doing that work, having that empathy also

310
00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:49,940
then creates some of that parallel for your

311
00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:52,259
spouse too, and you're learning how to have

312
00:10:52,259 --> 00:10:54,580
empathy for her even so much as to

313
00:10:54,580 --> 00:10:55,399
say, okay.

314
00:10:55,955 --> 00:10:58,355
I'm gonna somehow find acceptance that this is

315
00:10:58,355 --> 00:10:59,815
gonna be a lot of repeat.

316
00:11:00,195 --> 00:11:02,434
Yeah. She's gonna bring up this over and

317
00:11:02,434 --> 00:11:03,415
over and over.

318
00:11:04,035 --> 00:11:06,035
And how do you be okay with that?

319
00:11:06,035 --> 00:11:07,554
How do you What I hear you saying

320
00:11:07,554 --> 00:11:10,294
is you instill hope by

321
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,080
really just reiterating, hey, guys. Like, we actually

322
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,600
know a lot about this. We do we

323
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,200
see couples like this all the time. Like,

324
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,120
there is a there is a method to

325
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,879
this madness. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just

326
00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:22,720
thinking about that. Yeah. Right. Which I which

327
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,000
I I I like that because that is

328
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,575
the truth. I mean, in the end, like,

329
00:11:25,894 --> 00:11:27,975
there are couples who who make it through

330
00:11:27,975 --> 00:11:30,134
this. There are couples who make it through

331
00:11:30,134 --> 00:11:31,915
stronger. Here's what they did.

332
00:11:32,455 --> 00:11:34,134
Now all that being said, it's not easy.

333
00:11:34,134 --> 00:11:36,535
You know, Michelle Mays, I I love her

334
00:11:36,535 --> 00:11:38,054
what she says. She calls it the Super

335
00:11:38,054 --> 00:11:40,294
Bowl of couples therapy. Yep. And it truly

336
00:11:40,294 --> 00:11:42,490
is. I mean, and I like that analogy

337
00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:44,570
because you think about the Super Bowl, it's

338
00:11:44,570 --> 00:11:47,129
the cream. It is the the top of

339
00:11:47,129 --> 00:11:49,610
the top. It's it's it's the best of

340
00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:51,529
college then get into this other place and

341
00:11:51,529 --> 00:11:53,049
then the best of this other place get

342
00:11:53,049 --> 00:11:55,225
to go to Super Bowl. And you really

343
00:11:55,225 --> 00:11:57,804
do need to bring that level of emotional

344
00:11:57,865 --> 00:12:01,804
intelligence, self awareness, social awareness, empathy, compassion, grace.

345
00:12:02,745 --> 00:12:04,904
You gotta bring you gotta bring level 10

346
00:12:04,904 --> 00:12:06,665
Super Bowl quality in all those areas. I

347
00:12:06,665 --> 00:12:09,430
think that's I think that's the intimidating piece

348
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:10,730
is when people start to realize

349
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:13,210
I'm basically gonna have to become

350
00:12:14,070 --> 00:12:15,850
the best at The bestest?

351
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:18,629
To make it. But then here's my rebuttal

352
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:20,149
to that is, I get that and that

353
00:12:20,149 --> 00:12:21,495
sounds daunting, but, like,

354
00:12:21,975 --> 00:12:23,575
is it really that bad to become the

355
00:12:23,575 --> 00:12:25,654
best at empathy, the best at compassion, the

356
00:12:25,654 --> 00:12:26,634
best at communication,

357
00:12:27,014 --> 00:12:29,254
the the best at ownership, the best at

358
00:12:29,495 --> 00:12:31,095
I mean, come like like all this stuff,

359
00:12:31,095 --> 00:12:32,695
like, it's not a bad thing to get

360
00:12:32,695 --> 00:12:35,000
the best at. Right? So, you said something

361
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,439
that I'd love for the conversation to go

362
00:12:36,439 --> 00:12:38,220
here for a second. You talked about,

363
00:12:40,199 --> 00:12:41,559
and I do wanna just visit this for

364
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:42,939
a second because it's real, man.

365
00:12:44,199 --> 00:12:46,839
Corey, this shit is brutal for men, and

366
00:12:46,839 --> 00:12:48,039
I get it. I like I said in

367
00:12:48,039 --> 00:12:49,995
the beginning, it's 50 times worse for the

368
00:12:49,995 --> 00:12:51,995
women. So everything I'm about to say, I'm

369
00:12:51,995 --> 00:12:52,975
not trying to

370
00:12:53,434 --> 00:12:55,834
get get compassion or make any sort of

371
00:12:55,834 --> 00:12:58,095
comparison. I'm not. I'm just trying to empathize

372
00:12:58,154 --> 00:12:59,534
with the guys who are listening.

373
00:12:59,995 --> 00:13:01,454
And ladies, if you're listening,

374
00:13:02,149 --> 00:13:03,750
just listen to this. It's it's it's it

375
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:05,430
is hard for these men. I mean, it

376
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:07,750
is. It's hard. It sucks when your wife's

377
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:09,910
calling you a monster. It sucks when your

378
00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:10,889
wife is saying,

379
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:13,590
I want I'm never gonna wear my wedding

380
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:15,904
ring again. It sucks when she takes down

381
00:13:15,904 --> 00:13:18,144
all the pictures of the wedding and says

382
00:13:18,144 --> 00:13:20,065
the the wedding didn't count and neither did

383
00:13:20,065 --> 00:13:21,845
any of our past vacation.

384
00:13:22,225 --> 00:13:22,705
Yeah.

385
00:13:23,105 --> 00:13:24,245
It sucks when,

386
00:13:25,665 --> 00:13:26,884
she makes you tell

387
00:13:27,345 --> 00:13:29,684
her family, your family, your friends.

388
00:13:30,179 --> 00:13:31,940
It sucks when she makes you tell the

389
00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:34,100
kids. It sucks when she says, hey, I

390
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:35,960
don't want you coming on this family vacation

391
00:13:36,019 --> 00:13:37,620
with us. I wanna go alone with the

392
00:13:37,620 --> 00:13:38,120
kids.

393
00:13:38,899 --> 00:13:40,179
On and on and on and on and

394
00:13:40,179 --> 00:13:41,240
on. You're basically,

395
00:13:42,274 --> 00:13:43,254
here's the analogy,

396
00:13:43,715 --> 00:13:45,235
and I get why this is the case.

397
00:13:45,235 --> 00:13:46,835
I just like to make this analogy to

398
00:13:46,835 --> 00:13:47,335
further

399
00:13:47,715 --> 00:13:50,434
just kind of call call attention to how

400
00:13:50,434 --> 00:13:51,495
brutal this is.

401
00:13:51,875 --> 00:13:54,195
We would never take an alcoholic, a heroin

402
00:13:54,195 --> 00:13:54,695
addict,

403
00:13:55,075 --> 00:13:55,575
and

404
00:13:56,610 --> 00:13:57,889
throw them on the ground and kick them

405
00:13:57,889 --> 00:14:00,370
while they're down. Honey, I can't believe you're

406
00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:03,089
you're a monster. You're and just calling this

407
00:14:03,089 --> 00:14:04,309
junky names.

408
00:14:04,769 --> 00:14:06,850
Why? Because he's going to probably run out

409
00:14:06,850 --> 00:14:09,409
of the back door and go probably overdose

410
00:14:09,409 --> 00:14:10,870
somewhere. Right? So,

411
00:14:11,355 --> 00:14:13,595
but we do that with guys with this

412
00:14:13,595 --> 00:14:14,575
problem. And,

413
00:14:15,115 --> 00:14:17,115
I get why. I am not in in

414
00:14:17,274 --> 00:14:19,195
I would say all of those same names

415
00:14:19,195 --> 00:14:21,195
may be worse. I've I've a way I

416
00:14:21,195 --> 00:14:23,595
have a nastier potty mouth than my wife,

417
00:14:23,595 --> 00:14:24,875
so I'm sure I would have come up

418
00:14:24,875 --> 00:14:26,860
with all sorts of things. I would have

419
00:14:26,860 --> 00:14:28,879
drove to the guy's house and,

420
00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:31,580
in the guy's houses and,

421
00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:33,660
I'd probably be in prison for doing, you

422
00:14:33,660 --> 00:14:35,179
know, who knows what I would have done.

423
00:14:35,179 --> 00:14:36,700
So I'm not saying that what these ladies

424
00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:38,460
are doing is crazy inappropriate. I would have

425
00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:39,420
done the same. I would have done the

426
00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:40,634
same thing. I would have been worse.

427
00:14:41,115 --> 00:14:43,035
And I'm it still doesn't change the fact

428
00:14:43,035 --> 00:14:45,995
that this guy is getting humiliated in probably

429
00:14:45,995 --> 00:14:48,394
one of the worst ways he's ever been.

430
00:14:48,394 --> 00:14:50,415
Yeah. And he is. He's he's being kicked

431
00:14:50,634 --> 00:14:52,475
while he's down. And I think we just

432
00:14:52,475 --> 00:14:53,669
need to honor that.

433
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:56,389
This my message is not for the wives.

434
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:57,669
You guys have all the right to be

435
00:14:57,669 --> 00:14:59,829
angry. My message more so is to the

436
00:14:59,829 --> 00:15:00,329
guys.

437
00:15:00,709 --> 00:15:01,769
Like, just appreciate

438
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:04,870
what's happening to you because it's hard. And,

439
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:06,549
and you really are in a position where

440
00:15:06,549 --> 00:15:08,470
you don't get to complain. You don't get

441
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:10,285
to, like, you know, when it when it

442
00:15:10,285 --> 00:15:12,684
comes to the formal therapy. But that here's

443
00:15:12,684 --> 00:15:13,725
the thing I wanna say to that, and

444
00:15:13,725 --> 00:15:14,764
then I'll turn the mic over to you,

445
00:15:14,764 --> 00:15:15,585
Corey, is,

446
00:15:16,045 --> 00:15:17,745
guys, though, you do get to complain.

447
00:15:18,285 --> 00:15:19,965
My one of my biggest regrets of the

448
00:15:19,965 --> 00:15:22,684
first year was not telling more again, not

449
00:15:22,684 --> 00:15:25,320
my not my wife, but my therapist, my

450
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:26,220
support group,

451
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,100
how

452
00:15:27,799 --> 00:15:30,220
painful this was and really allowing

453
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,240
myself to hurt. You know, I had the

454
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,000
story of, like, well, I cheated. I'm I

455
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,934
am a monster, so I don't You're scared

456
00:15:36,934 --> 00:15:38,615
at all. Exactly. And that's just not helpful

457
00:15:38,615 --> 00:15:39,754
because you know what happened?

458
00:15:40,375 --> 00:15:41,894
Over that year, that's kinda the reason I'm

459
00:15:41,894 --> 00:15:43,175
bringing this up is it's pertinent to the

460
00:15:43,175 --> 00:15:45,815
topic we're discussing today is over that first

461
00:15:45,815 --> 00:15:47,415
year of me just saying, nope. I don't

462
00:15:47,415 --> 00:15:48,935
get to have problems. I don't get to

463
00:15:48,935 --> 00:15:50,769
feel. I don't get to hurt. I'm a

464
00:15:50,769 --> 00:15:52,210
monster, I have not, you know, I I

465
00:15:52,210 --> 00:15:55,110
don't I don't deserve any sympathy, compassion.

466
00:15:57,570 --> 00:15:59,089
That was one of the bigger regrets because

467
00:15:59,089 --> 00:16:00,850
what happened was it built, it built, it

468
00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:03,730
built, and it ended up being a lot

469
00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:06,475
of the reason why I didn't have capacity

470
00:16:06,475 --> 00:16:08,875
when we really needed to start growing together

471
00:16:08,875 --> 00:16:10,795
as a couple. I was I was just

472
00:16:10,955 --> 00:16:12,715
I was so done. I was so over

473
00:16:12,715 --> 00:16:14,075
it that and and this happens all the

474
00:16:14,075 --> 00:16:15,995
time. I said it and they're out. Right?

475
00:16:15,995 --> 00:16:17,995
Yeah. So speak to that. I just it's

476
00:16:17,995 --> 00:16:20,279
a I I think guys need to I

477
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:22,360
think guy you need to understand how hard

478
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,720
this is and you need to let that

479
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,440
in. Don't I wouldn't go asking your wife

480
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,679
for compassion, but, I would certainly bring it

481
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:30,039
up to your support group and to your

482
00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:30,539
therapist.

483
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,699
Yeah. Totally. And it's,

484
00:16:33,615 --> 00:16:36,575
you know, as you're describing that that journey

485
00:16:36,575 --> 00:16:38,254
and during that year, like, you're trying your

486
00:16:38,254 --> 00:16:40,175
best to to show up, to be there

487
00:16:40,175 --> 00:16:42,175
for her, to be the rock, to be

488
00:16:42,175 --> 00:16:44,095
the strong one, to, you know, take all

489
00:16:44,095 --> 00:16:45,795
that pain on, so to speak.

490
00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:48,080
But how's that any different than what you're

491
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,720
doing in your addiction? Right? Like, typically, that's

492
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,879
every single guy I've worked with, and now

493
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:55,120
it's just extended into this beginning part of

494
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,040
recovery. You still don't have a voice. You

495
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,720
still don't have emotions. You still aren't sure

496
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,375
what those emotions are or what to do

497
00:17:00,375 --> 00:17:02,375
with them besides, like, hold on for dear

498
00:17:02,375 --> 00:17:02,875
life.

499
00:17:03,335 --> 00:17:05,015
And and so you're right. Like, that needs

500
00:17:05,015 --> 00:17:07,095
to be expressed and even if it it's

501
00:17:07,095 --> 00:17:08,295
gonna feel bad. I'll put it that way.

502
00:17:08,295 --> 00:17:10,214
It's gonna feel bad because you're you're gonna

503
00:17:10,214 --> 00:17:11,894
be going to your therapist or or a

504
00:17:11,894 --> 00:17:13,355
sponsor or someone saying,

505
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:14,480
hey.

506
00:17:15,259 --> 00:17:16,940
I'm having these thoughts on my life. I'm

507
00:17:16,940 --> 00:17:19,179
really feeling negative towards her. Let's put lightly.

508
00:17:19,179 --> 00:17:21,019
Right? I'm really feeling negative towards her because

509
00:17:21,019 --> 00:17:22,539
this and that that happened and and what

510
00:17:22,539 --> 00:17:24,619
she was saying and or just I'm feeling

511
00:17:24,619 --> 00:17:26,460
beat up. You know? I'm feeling kicked on

512
00:17:26,460 --> 00:17:27,819
the ground and I don't know what to

513
00:17:27,819 --> 00:17:29,039
do, and it's really painful.

514
00:17:30,125 --> 00:17:31,804
Yeah. You're a 100% right. That's You have

515
00:17:31,804 --> 00:17:33,904
to because it will it will it will

516
00:17:34,365 --> 00:17:36,444
it it will. And I'm a pretty tough

517
00:17:36,444 --> 00:17:38,765
guy. I I I, you know, I I

518
00:17:38,765 --> 00:17:41,105
I get over things like set reality quick.

519
00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:43,450
This is so brutal, guys. I mean, this

520
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:45,210
this this does add up. I mean, it

521
00:17:45,210 --> 00:17:47,289
just if you're not if you're not expressing

522
00:17:47,289 --> 00:17:49,450
it, getting out out of you, crying, screaming,

523
00:17:49,450 --> 00:17:51,529
whatever you gotta do Yeah. Because this is.

524
00:17:51,529 --> 00:17:52,990
I mean, it it it sucks,

525
00:17:53,654 --> 00:17:55,815
you know. Here's here's here's the way I

526
00:17:55,815 --> 00:17:57,275
describe it, Corey, is

527
00:17:57,734 --> 00:17:59,815
here's here's here's why I found it so

528
00:17:59,815 --> 00:18:00,955
frustrating was

529
00:18:01,575 --> 00:18:03,575
and again, this isn't really what it was

530
00:18:03,575 --> 00:18:05,335
like. This was what it felt like to

531
00:18:05,335 --> 00:18:08,410
me. It felt like everybody was mad at

532
00:18:08,410 --> 00:18:08,910
me

533
00:18:09,690 --> 00:18:11,929
and judging me when I was on their

534
00:18:11,929 --> 00:18:12,429
team.

535
00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:14,410
Like, it felt like it's like here we

536
00:18:14,410 --> 00:18:16,650
are and, like, everyone's like and again, I

537
00:18:16,650 --> 00:18:18,169
know this really wasn't how it was going,

538
00:18:18,169 --> 00:18:20,974
but it felt like, you know, couple's therapists,

539
00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:23,914
her therapists, her, my everyone's kinda like looking

540
00:18:23,914 --> 00:18:26,634
at me at like, man, you're really you're

541
00:18:26,634 --> 00:18:28,394
really messed up bro, you really like I

542
00:18:28,394 --> 00:18:30,394
can't, you know, that's what it felt like.

543
00:18:30,394 --> 00:18:31,994
And it was frustrating for me because I'm

544
00:18:31,994 --> 00:18:33,595
like, bro, I don't want I don't wanna

545
00:18:33,595 --> 00:18:34,079
do this.

546
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:36,339
I have I have documented evidence,

547
00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:39,839
that I can show everybody of me trying

548
00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:42,240
to stop all of this stuff before I

549
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,799
got caught. I mean, I documented evidence of

550
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:46,559
me trying to get this out of my

551
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:48,480
life before I got caught. So like I

552
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,375
hope you believe me. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Here

553
00:18:51,375 --> 00:18:53,474
I'm sitting in this office and it's like,

554
00:18:53,694 --> 00:18:55,214
they're all, you know, and again, this is

555
00:18:55,214 --> 00:18:55,954
my perception.

556
00:18:56,255 --> 00:18:57,694
They're all, like, on this side of the

557
00:18:57,694 --> 00:18:59,454
desk and I'm over there alone on the

558
00:18:59,454 --> 00:19:01,855
other side. And I'm like, homies, I got

559
00:19:02,015 --> 00:19:04,109
I I belong over there with y'all. Like

560
00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:06,509
like, the enemy we have the same enemy

561
00:19:06,509 --> 00:19:07,150
and it,

562
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:11,150
it from the therapy side, I think they

563
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:12,829
actually do see it. I I don't think

564
00:19:12,910 --> 00:19:14,589
I know they actually do see it that

565
00:19:14,589 --> 00:19:15,730
way. So in hindsight,

566
00:19:16,029 --> 00:19:17,730
it was actually not get to that

567
00:19:19,069 --> 00:19:20,085
perspective. Yeah. Correct.

568
00:19:20,565 --> 00:19:21,944
However, I will say

569
00:19:22,244 --> 00:19:23,464
there is a window

570
00:19:23,765 --> 00:19:25,845
that lasts, you know, a year, year and

571
00:19:25,845 --> 00:19:26,664
a half where

572
00:19:26,964 --> 00:19:28,424
your partner actually

573
00:19:28,884 --> 00:19:31,524
does have a hard time separating the behavior

574
00:19:31,524 --> 00:19:34,450
from us. Right? And so speak to that

575
00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:35,829
phase a bit, Corey, like,

576
00:19:36,289 --> 00:19:37,730
what do we do? Because in that first

577
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:39,250
year and a half it is, it's it's

578
00:19:39,250 --> 00:19:41,650
you hurt me and you did these things

579
00:19:41,650 --> 00:19:43,029
and they're wrestling with,

580
00:19:43,650 --> 00:19:45,730
you did this because I'm too fat, I'm

581
00:19:45,730 --> 00:19:46,390
too ugly,

582
00:19:46,974 --> 00:19:49,534
I'm not satisfying you in bed, you're bored

583
00:19:49,534 --> 00:19:50,274
of me,

584
00:19:50,894 --> 00:19:52,575
ever since we had kids, you don't like

585
00:19:52,575 --> 00:19:53,234
me anymore,

586
00:19:53,855 --> 00:19:55,294
blah blah blah blah. The list goes on

587
00:19:55,294 --> 00:19:56,755
and on. You want Juan's,

588
00:19:57,214 --> 00:19:59,054
I'm brunette, you know. They, you know, they

589
00:19:59,054 --> 00:19:59,954
have this story

590
00:20:00,349 --> 00:20:02,609
and we have to honor it because perception's

591
00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:04,830
reality. The customer's always right. You know, my

592
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:07,150
my my clients are all all successful business

593
00:20:07,150 --> 00:20:09,549
people so I always use that. The customer's

594
00:20:09,549 --> 00:20:11,869
always right. In this case, your wife's the

595
00:20:11,869 --> 00:20:14,615
customer and her perception is valid. But what

596
00:20:14,615 --> 00:20:16,695
do we do about that? Because it's, man,

597
00:20:16,695 --> 00:20:19,115
it's hard to engage in a

598
00:20:20,215 --> 00:20:22,615
argument when you actually agree with her, but

599
00:20:22,615 --> 00:20:24,295
then she doesn't want you to agree with

600
00:20:24,295 --> 00:20:25,414
her. You see what I'm saying? Like, if

601
00:20:25,414 --> 00:20:27,195
you if you are like, hey. I agree.

602
00:20:27,414 --> 00:20:29,429
She almost doesn't want that. How do we

603
00:20:29,429 --> 00:20:31,750
handle this dynamic? Yeah. And and I think,

604
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:34,470
you know, this actually dovetails into what you

605
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:35,289
were just mentioning

606
00:20:35,589 --> 00:20:38,149
about how, like, during that first year, if

607
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:39,990
you aren't addressing your own emotions and what's

608
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:41,990
coming up for you and even showing some

609
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:43,035
of that to your wife,

610
00:20:44,075 --> 00:20:45,855
then you're still distant.

611
00:20:46,234 --> 00:20:48,734
You're not accessible emotionally. You're

612
00:20:49,275 --> 00:20:50,955
she doesn't know how to read you. She

613
00:20:50,955 --> 00:20:52,715
doesn't know how to find your heart and

614
00:20:52,715 --> 00:20:54,654
so I think that becomes

615
00:20:55,275 --> 00:20:57,355
again the key to both of these pieces

616
00:20:57,355 --> 00:20:58,894
is learning how to,

617
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,080
I was gonna say safely but it's not

618
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:01,900
gonna be safe.

619
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,059
Learning how to riskily,

620
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,100
vulnerably

621
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,640
show your wife your heart the pain that

622
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,279
you're going through too without it being about

623
00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:12,200
like trying to trump her, one up her

624
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,075
and like oh, you're hurting? Well, I'm hurting.

625
00:21:14,075 --> 00:21:15,295
You know? None of that.

626
00:21:15,755 --> 00:21:16,575
But just,

627
00:21:17,355 --> 00:21:17,855
ideally,

628
00:21:18,634 --> 00:21:20,715
times that are not linked to a moment

629
00:21:20,715 --> 00:21:22,394
when she's sharing and she's having a hard

630
00:21:22,394 --> 00:21:24,839
time, maybe it's after your therapy. Right? That's

631
00:21:25,159 --> 00:21:26,679
the number one question I get in the,

632
00:21:26,679 --> 00:21:29,000
you know, first few months. Sometimes it even

633
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,000
comes up later in therapy is what do

634
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,619
I say to my wife after this session?

635
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,400
She's gonna ask me about it, you know?

636
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,319
She wants to know. So that's the leaning

637
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:39,400
in and and this I think gets to

638
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,815
this question as well is

639
00:21:41,615 --> 00:21:44,514
beat her to the punch. Yeah. It's so

640
00:21:44,575 --> 00:21:45,075
impactful.

641
00:21:45,375 --> 00:21:47,454
If you're the one starting these conversations Mhmm.

642
00:21:47,694 --> 00:21:49,774
You're the one leaning in and going, hey,

643
00:21:49,774 --> 00:21:50,254
honey,

644
00:21:50,575 --> 00:21:52,734
you know, I had my therapy earlier today.

645
00:21:52,734 --> 00:21:54,500
I'd love to share it with you. You

646
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:55,940
know, do you have some time now or

647
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:57,880
or when would you wanna talk about it?

648
00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:00,100
Right? And you already you're you've done some

649
00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:02,500
reflection yourself. You're going up with, you know,

650
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:04,340
a couple topics you wanted to bring up

651
00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:06,420
like, oh, we talked about this thing and

652
00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:08,660
how it's impacting me and you know, how,

653
00:22:09,554 --> 00:22:11,714
even a trigger. Right? And and I know

654
00:22:11,714 --> 00:22:14,054
that's a dangerous place to talk about, but

655
00:22:14,115 --> 00:22:15,554
that's what I like about it so much

656
00:22:15,554 --> 00:22:16,054
is

657
00:22:16,754 --> 00:22:18,674
maybe sharing I just had this other day

658
00:22:18,674 --> 00:22:20,534
with a couple different clients, but it's,

659
00:22:21,234 --> 00:22:23,394
here was this work stressor going on. Right?

660
00:22:23,394 --> 00:22:23,894
And,

661
00:22:24,690 --> 00:22:27,169
and I felt really bad and low. And

662
00:22:27,169 --> 00:22:29,409
in the past, I would have tried to

663
00:22:29,409 --> 00:22:31,409
seek something to numb. I think I would

664
00:22:31,409 --> 00:22:33,650
have gone to porn or something. Maybe scan

665
00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:34,869
through classified ads.

666
00:22:35,490 --> 00:22:38,069
Go somewhere to try and numb those emotions.

667
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:41,434
But this time, I saw it. Mhmm. You

668
00:22:41,434 --> 00:22:43,275
know, I I called someone right away. I

669
00:22:43,275 --> 00:22:44,095
started texting.

670
00:22:45,035 --> 00:22:46,795
I went for a little walk outside my

671
00:22:46,795 --> 00:22:47,615
office building,

672
00:22:47,994 --> 00:22:48,494
whatever.

673
00:22:49,195 --> 00:22:50,875
And and now you can share that with

674
00:22:50,875 --> 00:22:51,375
me.

675
00:22:51,674 --> 00:22:53,595
And that becomes amazing. Because now she sees

676
00:22:53,595 --> 00:22:55,455
your heart, she sees the work you're doing,

677
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:57,390
and she sees that you're not trying to

678
00:22:57,390 --> 00:22:58,829
just do the same thing you did with

679
00:22:58,829 --> 00:23:00,429
the addiction of just, you know, pull the

680
00:23:00,429 --> 00:23:02,669
wool over her eyes, the gaslighting, the oh,

681
00:23:02,669 --> 00:23:04,829
it's all great. Yeah. I'm in recovery. Don't

682
00:23:04,829 --> 00:23:07,210
worry about it. Mhmm. Talk back later. Mhmm.

683
00:23:07,309 --> 00:23:09,549
It's a and it's a tough thing. Right?

684
00:23:09,549 --> 00:23:10,049
Because

685
00:23:10,934 --> 00:23:11,434
recovery,

686
00:23:12,454 --> 00:23:13,194
you know,

687
00:23:13,494 --> 00:23:16,054
again, I I hate breaching this topic because,

688
00:23:16,054 --> 00:23:16,554
again,

689
00:23:16,934 --> 00:23:18,454
addicts and the addict brain, you give an

690
00:23:18,454 --> 00:23:19,894
you give an addict an inch and they

691
00:23:19,894 --> 00:23:20,954
run with it. Right?

692
00:23:21,255 --> 00:23:23,494
But, you know, it's it is tough with

693
00:23:23,494 --> 00:23:24,054
this because,

694
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,820
there is a kind of intrusive,

695
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,160
element at times of, like, why can't you

696
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,759
just stay out of my fucking recovery kind

697
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:34,600
of thing? And, like and I felt that

698
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,120
quite a bit is it's like, dude, you

699
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:37,720
don't need to, like, get in here, like,

700
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,565
I because it is. It's like, I wanna

701
00:23:39,565 --> 00:23:41,565
be in love with you, not have another

702
00:23:41,565 --> 00:23:44,125
mom, right, parenting me. And so there is

703
00:23:44,125 --> 00:23:45,424
a very real aspect

704
00:23:46,125 --> 00:23:48,285
of finding some boundary. But to your point,

705
00:23:48,285 --> 00:23:48,785
Corey,

706
00:23:49,164 --> 00:23:51,725
what's not gonna fly is not talking about

707
00:23:51,725 --> 00:23:53,965
it at all. I mean, it's it it

708
00:23:53,965 --> 00:23:54,465
is.

709
00:23:54,859 --> 00:23:56,940
And I think that goes on for far

710
00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:59,180
past two years, three years. I mean, like,

711
00:23:59,180 --> 00:24:01,039
in the end, guys, when you cheat,

712
00:24:01,340 --> 00:24:02,799
her brain now knows

713
00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:05,420
that you at one at one point in

714
00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:06,799
time had the ability

715
00:24:07,255 --> 00:24:08,855
to cheat and her brain will not forget

716
00:24:08,855 --> 00:24:10,694
about that ever. And hide it. Right. Yeah.

717
00:24:10,694 --> 00:24:12,134
And and lie and lie. The scary as

718
00:24:12,134 --> 00:24:13,734
fuck. She never knows if it's gonna pop

719
00:24:13,734 --> 00:24:16,234
up again. Exactly. And, you know, amongst gaslighting,

720
00:24:16,454 --> 00:24:18,315
maybe even other white lies post

721
00:24:18,615 --> 00:24:19,974
the fact when you say, hey, I'm never

722
00:24:19,974 --> 00:24:21,095
gonna lie to you again and then you

723
00:24:21,095 --> 00:24:23,034
lied again. Right? All those aspects,

724
00:24:23,549 --> 00:24:25,809
You know, now her her system is like,

725
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:28,349
this guy has the potential to lie to

726
00:24:28,349 --> 00:24:30,589
me. And and that so we do have

727
00:24:30,589 --> 00:24:32,769
to honor that aspect. And so

728
00:24:33,309 --> 00:24:33,809
there

729
00:24:34,509 --> 00:24:37,085
again, come up with you guys are gonna

730
00:24:37,085 --> 00:24:38,705
have to come up with some way

731
00:24:39,325 --> 00:24:41,984
to check-in with where things are,

732
00:24:43,005 --> 00:24:43,984
in your recovery.

733
00:24:44,684 --> 00:24:46,785
But again, there is a line between

734
00:24:47,644 --> 00:24:49,265
what feels very parenty.

735
00:24:50,190 --> 00:24:51,710
What I would say to guys though is

736
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:52,769
in that first year,

737
00:24:53,389 --> 00:24:54,669
I don't know. I hate to tell you

738
00:24:54,669 --> 00:24:56,269
guys to kinda suck it up because I

739
00:24:56,269 --> 00:24:58,669
I do actually encourage guys to start speaking

740
00:24:58,669 --> 00:25:00,909
up a little bit because there is a

741
00:25:00,909 --> 00:25:02,829
point at which I do as well. That

742
00:25:02,829 --> 00:25:04,589
we it starts harming the relationship and we

743
00:25:04,589 --> 00:25:06,115
need to we need to You're out for

744
00:25:06,115 --> 00:25:08,035
your own boundaries and sense of safety. Right?

745
00:25:08,035 --> 00:25:10,515
I mean, like, okay. It's really brutal, you

746
00:25:10,515 --> 00:25:12,835
know, name calling, and the fight's gone long,

747
00:25:12,835 --> 00:25:14,595
and it's one in the morning. And, you

748
00:25:14,595 --> 00:25:17,015
know, like, it's important to set that boundary

749
00:25:17,075 --> 00:25:19,450
for yourself, but also it can help provide

750
00:25:19,450 --> 00:25:22,169
some safety and containment to the relationship. Yeah.

751
00:25:22,169 --> 00:25:24,009
Correct. Correct. I think that does need to

752
00:25:24,009 --> 00:25:25,069
be done professionally

753
00:25:25,369 --> 00:25:28,049
in my opinion because I think It's not

754
00:25:28,049 --> 00:25:30,490
a deal. Yeah. What doesn't get communicated often

755
00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:31,230
is like,

756
00:25:32,225 --> 00:25:34,865
it sounds to her like you're telling her

757
00:25:34,865 --> 00:25:36,005
when she can

758
00:25:36,384 --> 00:25:36,884
feel.

759
00:25:37,184 --> 00:25:39,025
Right? And that's not what we mean. What

760
00:25:39,025 --> 00:25:39,924
we mean is,

761
00:25:40,384 --> 00:25:42,945
hey. The truth is this shit's gonna be

762
00:25:42,945 --> 00:25:45,365
going on for a while. I mean,

763
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,320
if if you guys are in the clear

764
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,480
at year three, good for you. I just

765
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,400
that's not typically I mean, this is a

766
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:55,320
it gets better. I'm not trying to say

767
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,240
it's it's pure hell for three years. I'm

768
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,640
not saying that. It gets better. But I

769
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:00,380
would say

770
00:26:01,164 --> 00:26:02,684
if you're gonna hang in for the long

771
00:26:02,684 --> 00:26:04,365
run, you need to speak to your wife

772
00:26:04,365 --> 00:26:06,285
about that and say, hey, I'm I'm I'm

773
00:26:06,285 --> 00:26:08,365
trying to find something sustainable. And what I'm

774
00:26:08,365 --> 00:26:11,585
noticing is in the beginning, this kinda like

775
00:26:12,285 --> 00:26:15,164
mother, you know, mother son dynamic, like, I

776
00:26:15,164 --> 00:26:16,740
tolerated it for a little bit, but,

777
00:26:17,619 --> 00:26:19,220
I just I don't feel like you're equal

778
00:26:19,220 --> 00:26:20,819
when you when we do it this way.

779
00:26:20,819 --> 00:26:22,660
You know, one of the things that, I

780
00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:24,259
think in the beginning you do need to

781
00:26:24,259 --> 00:26:26,339
do check ins. I think they wanna know

782
00:26:26,339 --> 00:26:26,839
daily

783
00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:28,679
if you did anything.

784
00:26:29,414 --> 00:26:31,735
And so guys just suck it up for

785
00:26:31,735 --> 00:26:33,575
that little window of time for those first

786
00:26:33,575 --> 00:26:35,335
six months. They do wanna know every day.

787
00:26:35,335 --> 00:26:37,174
Hey. Anything you gotta tell me? Right? Because

788
00:26:37,174 --> 00:26:38,535
you're a liar. Right? And so it's a

789
00:26:38,535 --> 00:26:40,855
fair to me, it's a fair assessment. Yeah.

790
00:26:41,255 --> 00:26:42,375
However, I do believe

791
00:26:42,785 --> 00:26:44,750
started. Yeah. You can initiate it. You can

792
00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:46,589
schedule it. If you can it's gonna go

793
00:26:46,589 --> 00:26:49,069
much further. Yeah. Correct. Exactly. Exactly. This can

794
00:26:49,069 --> 00:26:50,669
be you know, but I do think, you

795
00:26:50,669 --> 00:26:52,109
know, as time goes on,

796
00:26:52,829 --> 00:26:53,490
it does

797
00:26:53,789 --> 00:26:55,089
every night basically.

798
00:26:55,744 --> 00:26:57,505
And and and and and here's the thing

799
00:26:57,505 --> 00:26:58,005
too,

800
00:26:58,305 --> 00:27:00,144
Corey, the therapist come up with all sorts

801
00:27:00,144 --> 00:27:00,805
of creative

802
00:27:01,184 --> 00:27:03,825
names and Yeah. Oh, how about you check-in

803
00:27:03,825 --> 00:27:05,744
about here's the thing. I don't care what

804
00:27:05,744 --> 00:27:07,345
you wanna call it. Well, how were your

805
00:27:07,345 --> 00:27:09,184
emotions today? Come on. I can read between

806
00:27:09,184 --> 00:27:10,919
the lines. I know what you wanna know.

807
00:27:10,919 --> 00:27:12,679
Did I lie to you today? Did I

808
00:27:12,679 --> 00:27:14,039
act out today? And so it's like, I

809
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:15,559
don't care how the therapist wants you to

810
00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:17,079
dress it up. Yeah. Whatever acronym. As an

811
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:17,579
addict,

812
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:21,159
it still feels like an interrogation. I don't

813
00:27:21,159 --> 00:27:22,359
care. And so,

814
00:27:23,394 --> 00:27:25,474
I would say that that gets really old

815
00:27:25,474 --> 00:27:26,994
for guys for a while because you feel

816
00:27:26,994 --> 00:27:29,234
like Yeah. You feel like a son you

817
00:27:29,234 --> 00:27:30,994
feel like a a a son to a

818
00:27:30,994 --> 00:27:31,974
mom who,

819
00:27:32,674 --> 00:27:33,734
is be basically

820
00:27:34,035 --> 00:27:36,674
constantly not trusted and be and and trying

821
00:27:36,674 --> 00:27:39,250
to get caught. Right? And, trying to catch

822
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:41,109
you doing something. And that's just an unsustainable.

823
00:27:41,250 --> 00:27:43,430
So that's I guess that's my advice is,

824
00:27:43,650 --> 00:27:45,490
you know, in the beginning, you guys kinda

825
00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:46,769
have to it's it's there's a lot of

826
00:27:46,769 --> 00:27:48,850
fear. But, you know, I would say as

827
00:27:48,850 --> 00:27:50,325
a couple, you guys do need to find

828
00:27:50,325 --> 00:27:52,325
something sustainable because if this is gonna go

829
00:27:52,325 --> 00:27:54,884
on for, you know, two, three, forty five

830
00:27:54,884 --> 00:27:55,384
years,

831
00:27:56,005 --> 00:27:57,784
what's a what's a healthy,

832
00:27:58,804 --> 00:28:00,724
connected way to go about doing all of

833
00:28:00,724 --> 00:28:01,284
this? And,

834
00:28:02,349 --> 00:28:03,789
it's tough in the first six months. But,

835
00:28:03,950 --> 00:28:05,409
but, Corey, on that standpoint,

836
00:28:06,269 --> 00:28:08,669
from let's talk, like, let's talk, like, after

837
00:28:08,669 --> 00:28:11,470
the first year. Mhmm. What you know, I'm

838
00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:13,710
sure you've heard the same pushback. It it

839
00:28:13,710 --> 00:28:16,224
it gets old to do, like, the you're

840
00:28:16,224 --> 00:28:17,664
a sex addict, you're a sex addict, you're

841
00:28:17,664 --> 00:28:18,944
a sex addict. Like, that shit just gets

842
00:28:18,944 --> 00:28:20,784
old. So how do we kinda transition into

843
00:28:20,784 --> 00:28:22,404
something more sustainable? Yeah.

844
00:28:22,784 --> 00:28:24,704
And this is where it truly gets tricky,

845
00:28:24,704 --> 00:28:26,384
and I don't I'm not at all pretending

846
00:28:26,384 --> 00:28:27,825
to have all the answers. You know, it's

847
00:28:27,825 --> 00:28:29,970
very much a case by case. I'm gonna

848
00:28:29,970 --> 00:28:31,090
do my best to get in there with

849
00:28:31,090 --> 00:28:33,570
you, say with my team, at my group

850
00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:34,369
that I work with,

851
00:28:35,009 --> 00:28:36,930
and really get into where we're the couple's

852
00:28:36,930 --> 00:28:37,750
at, the individual.

853
00:28:38,769 --> 00:28:40,450
But, you know, one of those huge things

854
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:42,505
is is where the partner's at. You know?

855
00:28:42,505 --> 00:28:43,865
Again, you were mentioning like kind of the

856
00:28:43,865 --> 00:28:46,345
check ins and the momming. Like, one helpful

857
00:28:46,345 --> 00:28:48,664
perspective on that too is that's her work

858
00:28:48,664 --> 00:28:51,944
to do. Right? Like, yeah, it creates that

859
00:28:51,944 --> 00:28:54,424
power differential, but it's also that's the stuff

860
00:28:54,424 --> 00:28:57,085
she's working on hopefully with her therapist, hopefully

861
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,319
in group or some kind of support as

862
00:28:59,319 --> 00:28:59,819
well.

863
00:29:00,679 --> 00:29:02,839
And this is an area that still I

864
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:04,039
don't have a good answer for and I

865
00:29:04,039 --> 00:29:05,400
know it's not good for me to admit

866
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:06,619
in a public forum,

867
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,400
but how to help your wife get in

868
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,434
there and get the help she needs. Right?

869
00:29:11,434 --> 00:29:12,954
It's so hard because you can't be the

870
00:29:12,954 --> 00:29:15,035
one going, hey. Here's this great book I

871
00:29:15,035 --> 00:29:16,875
found. You should really read it and get

872
00:29:16,875 --> 00:29:18,575
better so we can have sex again.

873
00:29:18,954 --> 00:29:20,654
It's not the way it should go.

874
00:29:21,434 --> 00:29:23,115
But at the same time, you're hearing about

875
00:29:23,115 --> 00:29:25,195
all these resources. Maybe she's not coming across

876
00:29:25,195 --> 00:29:27,529
them. It's not changing. And so perhaps this

877
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:29,450
can go with some of the the sharing

878
00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:31,529
time if if you've created a safe space

879
00:29:31,529 --> 00:29:34,329
there in checking in, in sharing after especially

880
00:29:34,329 --> 00:29:36,490
after that year mark, you're showing sobriety. You're

881
00:29:36,490 --> 00:29:39,130
showing that you're consistent. You're not going anywhere.

882
00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:40,569
You're not failing on her.

883
00:29:42,184 --> 00:29:44,505
Hopefully, you've earned some safety there and earned

884
00:29:44,505 --> 00:29:46,444
a bit of a voice that you can,

885
00:29:47,785 --> 00:29:50,424
not check-in on her healing, but talk about

886
00:29:50,424 --> 00:29:52,664
it. Like, it'd be great for you to

887
00:29:52,664 --> 00:29:55,859
hear what she's journeying through. Right? And and

888
00:29:55,859 --> 00:29:58,279
it can lead to deeper conversations, I think,

889
00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:00,900
lead to deeper healing knowing what what she's

890
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:03,539
going through, what kinda need she has, and

891
00:30:03,539 --> 00:30:05,700
hopefully, develop some shorthand for the two of

892
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:06,359
you too.

893
00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:09,140
Right? Where she can come home after her

894
00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:10,119
session saying,

895
00:30:10,644 --> 00:30:11,944
don't talk to me.

896
00:30:12,565 --> 00:30:13,845
That was really triggering.

897
00:30:15,285 --> 00:30:17,125
And you go, okay. And you go and

898
00:30:17,125 --> 00:30:18,804
you make her tea or, I don't know,

899
00:30:18,804 --> 00:30:20,644
her favorite cocktail or, you know, whatever might

900
00:30:20,644 --> 00:30:22,484
be needed in that moment to to show

901
00:30:22,484 --> 00:30:22,984
her

902
00:30:23,329 --> 00:30:24,769
your Well, this is a different kind of

903
00:30:24,769 --> 00:30:27,029
relationship because think about it. Right? You're

904
00:30:27,490 --> 00:30:27,990
you're

905
00:30:28,450 --> 00:30:32,049
now with a cheater, and then as the

906
00:30:32,049 --> 00:30:34,950
cheating partner, you're now with somebody whose

907
00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:36,230
nervous system

908
00:30:37,024 --> 00:30:39,684
is tastefully scared of you probably forever,

909
00:30:40,224 --> 00:30:42,865
rightfully so. Right? And, you know, I think

910
00:30:42,865 --> 00:30:45,044
that, Corey, that that's the reason why

911
00:30:46,784 --> 00:30:48,704
there is work that needs to be done

912
00:30:48,704 --> 00:30:51,265
because this is not a normal relationship to

913
00:30:51,265 --> 00:30:52,349
stay in. No.

914
00:30:52,750 --> 00:30:54,910
You guys are, you know, if you're gonna

915
00:30:54,910 --> 00:30:56,589
choose to go through this, I mean, this

916
00:30:56,589 --> 00:30:57,250
is not

917
00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:59,549
this is not normal. We're very you know,

918
00:30:59,549 --> 00:31:01,789
when else do we put the perpetrator and

919
00:31:01,789 --> 00:31:02,450
the victim

920
00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:04,509
in the same bed and tell them to

921
00:31:04,509 --> 00:31:07,115
have sex together sometimes? Like, I mean, we

922
00:31:07,115 --> 00:31:09,535
never do that. Usually, when the victim is

923
00:31:09,755 --> 00:31:11,855
in the we separate them and the perpetrator.

924
00:31:11,914 --> 00:31:13,835
Typically, they never see the perpetrator again. Right?

925
00:31:13,835 --> 00:31:16,315
So here is this person who arguably does

926
00:31:16,315 --> 00:31:17,674
one of the worst things you can do

927
00:31:17,674 --> 00:31:18,335
to somebody,

928
00:31:18,889 --> 00:31:20,649
And now they have to raise kids together,

929
00:31:20,649 --> 00:31:22,009
live in the same house, sleep in the

930
00:31:22,009 --> 00:31:24,970
same bed, eventually have intercourse together one day.

931
00:31:24,970 --> 00:31:27,529
Like like, this is this is a big

932
00:31:27,529 --> 00:31:30,009
ask. And so for everybody listening, you know,

933
00:31:30,009 --> 00:31:32,509
this is why the therapy is so critical.

934
00:31:32,730 --> 00:31:35,034
It's it's kind of over and be like,

935
00:31:35,034 --> 00:31:37,214
to me, there's the whole stuff of, like,

936
00:31:37,434 --> 00:31:39,434
how to stay together. That's not therapy. That's,

937
00:31:39,434 --> 00:31:41,194
like, what happens in the first six months

938
00:31:41,194 --> 00:31:43,274
is consulting. I mean, that's not therapy. That

939
00:31:43,274 --> 00:31:45,934
is that is just us sharing our experience

940
00:31:45,994 --> 00:31:47,994
with a road map that that has been

941
00:31:47,994 --> 00:31:48,974
proven to work.

942
00:31:49,399 --> 00:31:52,119
You do need to transition into and and

943
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:53,720
and in my opinion, you kinda need to

944
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,899
see a certified sexual therapist is

945
00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:58,039
this is a very unique issue. I mean,

946
00:31:58,039 --> 00:32:00,440
very rarely are we asking two people to

947
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,700
do something so weird and difficult.

948
00:32:03,775 --> 00:32:05,055
Speak to that. What are some of the

949
00:32:05,055 --> 00:32:06,974
dynamics that change? Because, I mean, you do

950
00:32:06,974 --> 00:32:09,775
have to create a new Yeah. Relationship. Yeah.

951
00:32:09,775 --> 00:32:11,615
What are some of the things that are

952
00:32:11,615 --> 00:32:13,714
new, and how do couples go about

953
00:32:14,174 --> 00:32:14,674
thriving,

954
00:32:15,535 --> 00:32:17,539
while being with somebody you cheat on? You?

955
00:32:17,539 --> 00:32:19,059
Yeah. Great question. For sure.

956
00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:22,359
And like you mentioned, like, seeing someone,

957
00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:24,740
CSAT who's trained in this, you know, and

958
00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:26,339
I would broaden that to this place of,

959
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:28,500
trauma informed. And that's become a little bit

960
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:29,400
more of a buzzword.

961
00:32:30,464 --> 00:32:33,025
I when I got certified back in 2010,

962
00:32:33,025 --> 00:32:34,944
you know, that was like a revolutionary thing

963
00:32:34,944 --> 00:32:36,884
back to the trauma informed therapist.

964
00:32:37,664 --> 00:32:39,605
But but that's the reality of it. Both

965
00:32:39,904 --> 00:32:41,904
both the person who struggle with addiction and

966
00:32:41,904 --> 00:32:44,784
the partner have had trauma in their background.

967
00:32:44,784 --> 00:32:47,420
Like, we don't find it otherwise. And so

968
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,279
the therapist that's working with you both individually

969
00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:51,500
but as a couple,

970
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:54,200
and we do recommend three different therapists just

971
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,039
to have that clarity out there too. Yep.

972
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,255
The they need to know their stuff. They

973
00:32:59,255 --> 00:33:00,775
need to know their trauma stuff and how

974
00:33:00,775 --> 00:33:03,434
it's gonna get triggered and respond and and

975
00:33:03,494 --> 00:33:05,335
hopefully be a step ahead of you guys

976
00:33:05,335 --> 00:33:06,934
so they can help guide you in this

977
00:33:06,934 --> 00:33:08,295
new place of a road map.

978
00:33:09,015 --> 00:33:10,075
But like you're saying,

979
00:33:11,015 --> 00:33:11,835
Roland, the

980
00:33:13,089 --> 00:33:14,690
does it come to a place where you've

981
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:16,849
got the victim and the perpetrator and you're

982
00:33:16,849 --> 00:33:19,009
asking them to be intimate and vulnerable with

983
00:33:19,009 --> 00:33:21,329
each other? Right? And and not have it

984
00:33:21,329 --> 00:33:22,710
be like a Stockholm syndrome.

985
00:33:23,089 --> 00:33:23,589
Because

986
00:33:24,049 --> 00:33:25,909
I've seen that too, and that's not pretty.

987
00:33:27,089 --> 00:33:27,589
And

988
00:33:28,835 --> 00:33:30,615
I guess the short of it would be

989
00:33:30,914 --> 00:33:32,375
it it takes the

990
00:33:33,154 --> 00:33:35,555
just the work of the boundary setting, the

991
00:33:35,555 --> 00:33:38,755
personhood work for the person to know who

992
00:33:38,755 --> 00:33:39,494
they are

993
00:33:39,795 --> 00:33:41,875
and that they're a good person, they're a

994
00:33:41,875 --> 00:33:44,890
healthy person, they love themselves, they love their

995
00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:47,769
partner, and and to hopefully come together out

996
00:33:47,769 --> 00:33:49,930
of that place. Mhmm. Right? So that when

997
00:33:49,930 --> 00:33:51,690
and not kinda if, but when there's a

998
00:33:51,690 --> 00:33:54,110
trigger that comes up, when there's a,

999
00:33:55,529 --> 00:33:58,170
false move that is made on the journey

1000
00:33:58,170 --> 00:33:58,670
from,

1001
00:33:59,014 --> 00:34:01,734
making dinner to having an intimate moment in

1002
00:34:01,734 --> 00:34:02,394
the evening

1003
00:34:02,694 --> 00:34:04,554
that when that moment comes up,

1004
00:34:04,855 --> 00:34:07,095
it's not the world crashes down. We're back

1005
00:34:07,095 --> 00:34:08,074
to square zero.

1006
00:34:08,694 --> 00:34:10,214
I don't know why I'm even trying this

1007
00:34:10,214 --> 00:34:12,614
with you, all of that. It's more the

1008
00:34:12,694 --> 00:34:15,190
there's the language, the understanding, the realization.

1009
00:34:15,730 --> 00:34:17,510
Okay. That's what happened for me right then.

1010
00:34:17,570 --> 00:34:19,970
Wow. That was too hard. Maybe we can

1011
00:34:19,970 --> 00:34:21,510
try again, tomorrow.

1012
00:34:21,890 --> 00:34:24,130
Mhmm. You know? So I'd say that would

1013
00:34:24,130 --> 00:34:25,910
be kind of the most succinct thing.

1014
00:34:26,894 --> 00:34:29,375
We're we're doing some kinda neat work right

1015
00:34:29,375 --> 00:34:30,894
now. I'm I'm working on it with,

1016
00:34:31,454 --> 00:34:34,594
someone to help develop, like, some more tools

1017
00:34:34,655 --> 00:34:35,474
for partners.

1018
00:34:36,574 --> 00:34:37,315
So, like,

1019
00:34:38,094 --> 00:34:40,949
a trust building, like, road map and, like,

1020
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:42,949
some boundary scripts, which I think is a

1021
00:34:42,949 --> 00:34:44,809
really cool idea where it's like, okay.

1022
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:47,849
Depending on the situation you're in, whether it's

1023
00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:50,949
maybe with, family. Right? What kind of boundary

1024
00:34:50,949 --> 00:34:53,030
things can you say to help protect yourself

1025
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:54,630
in this journey that you're on of of

1026
00:34:54,630 --> 00:34:55,130
healing,

1027
00:34:55,764 --> 00:34:56,505
as a partner.

1028
00:34:57,125 --> 00:34:59,125
Maybe it's even with your church or or

1029
00:34:59,125 --> 00:34:59,625
friends,

1030
00:35:00,324 --> 00:35:01,844
but lots of them for how do you

1031
00:35:01,844 --> 00:35:04,085
set boundaries with with your partner as well

1032
00:35:04,085 --> 00:35:05,784
to care for and protect yourself.

1033
00:35:07,125 --> 00:35:09,125
And, so I find that being such a

1034
00:35:09,125 --> 00:35:09,625
foundational

1035
00:35:09,925 --> 00:35:11,860
place, over and over because

1036
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,400
it's so easy to get really unmatched and

1037
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,880
intertwined in this process if if the couple

1038
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,260
wasn't already before,

1039
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:21,539
going through the, addiction recovery process.

1040
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,625
But that enmeshment just gets so blurred on

1041
00:35:24,625 --> 00:35:26,784
who's to and who's responsible for what and

1042
00:35:26,784 --> 00:35:29,984
whose emotions we're responsible for. Am I responsible

1043
00:35:29,984 --> 00:35:31,125
for yours? And

1044
00:35:31,585 --> 00:35:33,984
and it can be very well meaning. Right?

1045
00:35:33,984 --> 00:35:37,114
The the partner often has been caretaking and,

1046
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,360
I think, you know, Rob Weiss wrote a

1047
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,500
good book about it too. But, caretaking for

1048
00:35:43,639 --> 00:35:45,260
the person with the addiction and

1049
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,960
and that's been out of love. And vice

1050
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,840
versa vice versa, the person who's been struggling

1051
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,875
with addiction is now trying to be there

1052
00:35:52,875 --> 00:35:54,655
for their spouse, for their wife,

1053
00:35:55,275 --> 00:35:56,655
and ends up caretaking

1054
00:35:56,954 --> 00:35:59,434
emotion and not saying things or doing things

1055
00:35:59,434 --> 00:36:01,035
because they don't wanna trigger her or hurt

1056
00:36:01,035 --> 00:36:03,755
her. So that's there's no way to have

1057
00:36:03,755 --> 00:36:06,340
your sense of self there. Right. Right. Ageing

1058
00:36:06,340 --> 00:36:08,820
those moments of true intimacy and vulnerability. Right?

1059
00:36:08,820 --> 00:36:10,340
Right. And let's end there because I think

1060
00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:11,400
that's a great place.

1061
00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:14,099
I'll go first and I'll have you go

1062
00:36:14,099 --> 00:36:15,480
in terms of just giving

1063
00:36:16,099 --> 00:36:18,260
giving couples one you know, if we're gonna

1064
00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:20,607
give one piece of advice that would really

1065
00:36:20,607 --> 00:36:23,164
help with this, I'll go I'll go first

1066
00:36:23,164 --> 00:36:25,721
and then I'll have you go second. What

1067
00:36:25,721 --> 00:36:27,994
I would say is, guys, it gets worse

1068
00:36:27,994 --> 00:36:30,550
before it gets better. There is this, you

1069
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:32,823
know, we we we love when things go

1070
00:36:32,823 --> 00:36:34,920
up into the right. And I would say,

1071
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,139
typically, they

1072
00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:38,760
are going up into the right. They just

1073
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,599
don't feel like they are. Mhmm. So that's

1074
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:42,679
what I would tell everybody is it's very

1075
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:44,280
easy to lose hope. It's very easy to

1076
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,579
become extremely discouraged.

1077
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,639
It's very easy to tap out. I mean,

1078
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:49,744
this this just, like, you know, how many

1079
00:36:49,744 --> 00:36:51,105
times can you be woken up at two

1080
00:36:51,105 --> 00:36:54,005
in the morning with a crying wife, like,

1081
00:36:54,144 --> 00:36:55,204
on a work night?

1082
00:36:55,744 --> 00:36:57,525
I mean, it just it it's it's

1083
00:36:57,905 --> 00:36:59,445
exhausting. Right? And so

1084
00:37:00,394 --> 00:37:00,894
but

1085
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:01,900
despite

1086
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,960
the day to day, because there are days

1087
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:04,860
where you feel

1088
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,860
like no progress has been made.

1089
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,079
As a neutral third party, and I'm sure

1090
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:11,000
you agree with this, Corey, watching it from

1091
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,079
the outside in, it's moving up to the

1092
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:14,920
right. The couple just doesn't know it yet

1093
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,420
because

1094
00:37:15,875 --> 00:37:17,635
does it look like the couple ship that

1095
00:37:17,635 --> 00:37:20,034
you had before all this happened? No. Right?

1096
00:37:20,034 --> 00:37:20,855
So to you,

1097
00:37:21,474 --> 00:37:24,114
it's like, oh, we're not this is bad.

1098
00:37:24,114 --> 00:37:25,954
I hate this. When's this gonna come to

1099
00:37:25,954 --> 00:37:26,614
an end?

1100
00:37:27,155 --> 00:37:29,250
But I will say you're going up into

1101
00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:30,690
the right even if you feel like you're

1102
00:37:30,690 --> 00:37:32,369
not going up to the right because I

1103
00:37:32,369 --> 00:37:34,630
would say the emotional graph and the actual,

1104
00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:35,989
you know, psychological

1105
00:37:36,289 --> 00:37:39,250
progress are different. Right? The emotional one I

1106
00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:41,429
mean, there are time I know guys who

1107
00:37:41,809 --> 00:37:42,550
they experienced

1108
00:37:43,244 --> 00:37:45,424
lowest lows in year two

1109
00:37:45,804 --> 00:37:48,045
that were way lower than anything that they

1110
00:37:48,045 --> 00:37:49,644
felt in year one. Not so much the

1111
00:37:49,644 --> 00:37:52,304
females, the the the women, the betrayed partners

1112
00:37:52,605 --> 00:37:54,144
Yeah. You know, they

1113
00:37:54,764 --> 00:37:56,125
they get it pretty good,

1114
00:37:56,525 --> 00:37:57,744
in that first year.

1115
00:37:58,070 --> 00:38:00,309
But guys, I would say the worst for

1116
00:38:00,309 --> 00:38:01,510
you is yet to come.

1117
00:38:01,829 --> 00:38:03,670
I that it's really easy to be a

1118
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:05,210
punching bag in that first year.

1119
00:38:05,989 --> 00:38:08,389
It gets really old in year two. I

1120
00:38:08,389 --> 00:38:10,630
mean, it's just it's not something that you're

1121
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:12,550
interested in. But so but what I would

1122
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:15,394
say is, it's probably especially for the guys,

1123
00:38:15,454 --> 00:38:18,175
it is probably gonna get worse, potentially way

1124
00:38:18,175 --> 00:38:18,675
worse

1125
00:38:18,974 --> 00:38:20,414
before it gets better. But I would just

1126
00:38:20,414 --> 00:38:21,715
encourage all of you

1127
00:38:22,015 --> 00:38:22,994
in those moments

1128
00:38:23,614 --> 00:38:25,215
to take a step back and be like,

1129
00:38:25,215 --> 00:38:26,594
come on, man. Like,

1130
00:38:28,319 --> 00:38:29,839
or is I know it feels like we

1131
00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:32,179
haven't made any progress, but, like, bro, rewind

1132
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,900
back. Remember the remember the month after disclosure,

1133
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:35,539
like,

1134
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,199
aren't you guys different since then? Right? You

1135
00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:40,719
know? And and just so be real, you

1136
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,012
know, that's what I would say to maintain

1137
00:38:43,012 --> 00:38:45,216
hope and just to help guys understand just

1138
00:38:45,216 --> 00:38:47,420
because you're experiencing the lowest of lows and

1139
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:49,623
you're two years out, two and a half

1140
00:38:49,623 --> 00:38:51,827
years out, do not read into that too

1141
00:38:51,827 --> 00:38:54,030
much. Do not read into that too much,

1142
00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:56,233
please. I I would say that's more common

1143
00:38:56,233 --> 00:38:58,900
than it's not. So, you know, really lean

1144
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:00,980
on your professionals with this. We've seen this

1145
00:39:00,980 --> 00:39:03,860
before. Mhmm. It's not it's not that uncommon,

1146
00:39:03,860 --> 00:39:06,420
but I I don't, yeah, don't don't let

1147
00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:08,099
your brain lie to you and tell you

1148
00:39:08,099 --> 00:39:09,960
that it's time to call it because,

1149
00:39:11,074 --> 00:39:12,674
it's not always time to call it even

1150
00:39:12,674 --> 00:39:13,875
though it feels like it's time to call

1151
00:39:13,875 --> 00:39:16,594
it. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. Corey, what's

1152
00:39:16,594 --> 00:39:19,174
your, what's your departing tip? Yeah. Definitely.

1153
00:39:19,714 --> 00:39:21,074
I'd piggybacking on that.

1154
00:39:21,875 --> 00:39:24,019
I I think I'm just bringing back in

1155
00:39:24,019 --> 00:39:25,559
old recovery wisdom

1156
00:39:26,260 --> 00:39:28,099
of this first and foremost is a spiritual

1157
00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:30,900
journey. Mhmm. And what that means to me

1158
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:32,760
is there's gonna be components of faith.

1159
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:35,300
You're gonna have to trust in something you

1160
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:36,045
can't see.

1161
00:39:36,764 --> 00:39:39,264
You're gonna have to lean and rely on

1162
00:39:39,324 --> 00:39:40,545
people that you,

1163
00:39:40,844 --> 00:39:42,385
you know, don't know fully,

1164
00:39:42,844 --> 00:39:45,905
like a therapist, like Roland, like, you know,

1165
00:39:45,964 --> 00:39:46,545
a sponsor,

1166
00:39:47,164 --> 00:39:47,664
and

1167
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:49,690
you're not gonna be used to that. You're

1168
00:39:49,690 --> 00:39:51,450
gonna bucket it, especially, you know, a lot

1169
00:39:51,450 --> 00:39:53,130
of successful guys listening to this podcast are

1170
00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:54,570
used to getting it done and and knowing

1171
00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:56,730
how to make things happen and, you know,

1172
00:39:56,730 --> 00:39:58,329
being the captain of your own ship. And

1173
00:39:58,329 --> 00:40:00,164
so it's it's hard

1174
00:40:00,644 --> 00:40:03,385
to to really practice surrender and go, okay.

1175
00:40:03,844 --> 00:40:05,925
And it's needed most in those moments. Right?

1176
00:40:05,925 --> 00:40:08,005
Those big props on that, like you're saying,

1177
00:40:08,005 --> 00:40:10,505
you're too when you're feeling hopeless and,

1178
00:40:11,285 --> 00:40:12,644
I don't know how I'm gonna get through

1179
00:40:12,644 --> 00:40:14,909
this, and the reality is you're not. Mhmm.

1180
00:40:14,909 --> 00:40:17,949
But you all will. You know? You will,

1181
00:40:17,949 --> 00:40:19,789
as you lean on others, be able to

1182
00:40:19,789 --> 00:40:21,309
get through it. But if you just try

1183
00:40:21,309 --> 00:40:22,670
it alone or or just do it on

1184
00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:24,429
your own strength, it's not gonna happen. And

1185
00:40:24,429 --> 00:40:24,929
so

1186
00:40:25,230 --> 00:40:27,010
how do you pull in that higher power

1187
00:40:27,069 --> 00:40:27,569
that,

1188
00:40:28,349 --> 00:40:29,969
sponsors people around you

1189
00:40:30,724 --> 00:40:32,724
to not be alone in this. Mhmm. Yeah.

1190
00:40:32,724 --> 00:40:34,405
I agree with that. I think this is

1191
00:40:34,405 --> 00:40:34,905
a

1192
00:40:36,565 --> 00:40:38,324
okay. And I I would say this too

1193
00:40:38,324 --> 00:40:40,565
because for high achievers, we lone wolf that

1194
00:40:40,565 --> 00:40:42,644
shit. Even when people don't know we're lone

1195
00:40:42,644 --> 00:40:44,929
wolfing it. Yep. We are lone wolfing it

1196
00:40:44,929 --> 00:40:46,210
inside. So that's the other thing I would

1197
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:47,969
say to the other entrepreneurs and high achievers

1198
00:40:47,969 --> 00:40:49,030
listening to this is,

1199
00:40:50,929 --> 00:40:53,250
just because you're going to meetings, you have

1200
00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:55,109
your little groups, you're going to therapy,

1201
00:40:55,409 --> 00:40:56,630
going to couples therapy,

1202
00:40:57,355 --> 00:40:59,695
that doesn't mean that you're really letting

1203
00:41:00,474 --> 00:41:02,175
people help you. And,

1204
00:41:03,835 --> 00:41:05,515
I would say if you're really honest with

1205
00:41:05,515 --> 00:41:07,355
it, you're probably still lone wolf and lone

1206
00:41:07,355 --> 00:41:08,795
wolf in it. It's what it's what high

1207
00:41:08,795 --> 00:41:11,035
achievers, like to do, and we try to

1208
00:41:11,035 --> 00:41:12,235
do it in recovery. And I will tell

1209
00:41:12,235 --> 00:41:14,260
you this, you try and lone wolf this,

1210
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,079
trust me, I tried,

1211
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:19,199
and it did not work. It failed just

1212
00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:20,639
like all the therapists told me it would

1213
00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:21,139
fail.

1214
00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:23,760
Connection with this, you know, I don't remember

1215
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,039
hearing it because I know you guys are

1216
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:26,719
I know the guys listening, like, it's a

1217
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,394
weird thing when you hear it. Right? Like,

1218
00:41:28,635 --> 00:41:30,635
your therapist and every therapist will tell you

1219
00:41:30,635 --> 00:41:32,335
this. Every therapist will say,

1220
00:41:33,034 --> 00:41:36,074
your peer support group will be the most

1221
00:41:36,074 --> 00:41:38,074
valuable asset you'll have. It'll be more valuable

1222
00:41:38,074 --> 00:41:39,755
in therapy. It'll be more valuable than your

1223
00:41:39,755 --> 00:41:42,140
inpatient. It'll be the guys that you lean

1224
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:44,460
on for the three or four days through

1225
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:46,480
this. Yeah. It's it's everything

1226
00:41:47,099 --> 00:41:49,340
with this. And I did not listen. I

1227
00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:50,000
was like,

1228
00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:52,720
I got friends. I talk to people, whatever.

1229
00:41:53,660 --> 00:41:56,375
No. It's not the same. I mean, so

1230
00:41:56,375 --> 00:41:58,695
I totally agree with you, Corey. Tapping into

1231
00:41:58,695 --> 00:41:59,914
tapping into something

1232
00:42:00,454 --> 00:42:02,715
more than just head down, do the work,

1233
00:42:03,255 --> 00:42:04,695
you can't work your way out of this

1234
00:42:04,695 --> 00:42:06,614
one. This is a this is a process

1235
00:42:06,614 --> 00:42:08,074
of feeling, this is an introspective

1236
00:42:08,454 --> 00:42:11,190
process. It's a, you know It's a foreign,

1237
00:42:11,210 --> 00:42:14,489
uncomfortable, unknown. Right? Yeah. It is. Yeah. You

1238
00:42:14,489 --> 00:42:16,250
don't you can't you're not gonna capitalism your

1239
00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:17,690
way out of this. I mean, it's it's

1240
00:42:17,690 --> 00:42:19,369
not a it it doesn't work that way.

1241
00:42:19,369 --> 00:42:20,190
Yeah. Absolutely.

1242
00:42:20,730 --> 00:42:22,569
Corey, if people are going to get a

1243
00:42:22,569 --> 00:42:24,010
hold of you guys, I know your group

1244
00:42:24,010 --> 00:42:25,764
does all sorts of cool stuff. What's the

1245
00:42:25,764 --> 00:42:27,925
name of my group? Where's your website? How

1246
00:42:27,925 --> 00:42:29,144
do they find you guys?

1247
00:42:30,164 --> 00:42:32,164
Where are are you what states can you

1248
00:42:32,164 --> 00:42:33,764
see people in? Give us the low down

1249
00:42:33,764 --> 00:42:35,925
on getting help with, your group. Yeah. Yeah.

1250
00:42:35,925 --> 00:42:36,985
Thanks for the opportunity.

1251
00:42:37,364 --> 00:42:40,184
Yeah. Integrity Counseling Group is our group.

1252
00:42:41,059 --> 00:42:42,659
And we have a website in the same

1253
00:42:42,659 --> 00:42:44,679
name, integritycounselinggroup.com.

1254
00:42:45,380 --> 00:42:47,780
You know, email, contact forms. We have a

1255
00:42:47,780 --> 00:42:49,780
thing on there to schedule a consultation for

1256
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:51,380
free so you can, you know, set up

1257
00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:52,900
and talk face to face to, like, my

1258
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:55,159
intake specialist or myself and,

1259
00:42:55,775 --> 00:42:57,695
just sort through what's best for you. You

1260
00:42:57,695 --> 00:43:00,575
know, we do newsletter stuff pretty infrequently, but

1261
00:43:00,575 --> 00:43:01,775
we're trying to get a little bit better

1262
00:43:01,775 --> 00:43:03,934
and try and find meaningful stuff that people

1263
00:43:03,934 --> 00:43:04,515
are needing,

1264
00:43:04,815 --> 00:43:05,555
to have.

1265
00:43:06,575 --> 00:43:08,255
You know, we'll see what else we develop

1266
00:43:08,255 --> 00:43:09,635
too. But, we're in California.

1267
00:43:10,019 --> 00:43:11,619
We're in San Diego area. So if you

1268
00:43:11,619 --> 00:43:13,380
wanna see us in person, that's awesome. We

1269
00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:15,219
have three offices all over the county, so

1270
00:43:15,219 --> 00:43:16,840
make it really accessible for people.

1271
00:43:17,619 --> 00:43:19,780
But if not, anywhere in California is great.

1272
00:43:19,780 --> 00:43:20,280
Mhmm.

1273
00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:22,824
Yeah, outside of the state. Sorry. But, you

1274
00:43:22,824 --> 00:43:24,425
know, when I've done other podcasts, I say,

1275
00:43:24,425 --> 00:43:25,945
hey. Call us anyways. If something I said

1276
00:43:25,945 --> 00:43:27,724
spoke to you and you feel like,

1277
00:43:28,585 --> 00:43:30,585
you know, might have some insight in your

1278
00:43:30,585 --> 00:43:32,605
situation, I'd love to talk to you and

1279
00:43:32,744 --> 00:43:34,265
still maybe help you get plugged in with

1280
00:43:34,265 --> 00:43:35,909
a good CSAT in your area. Yeah. I

1281
00:43:35,909 --> 00:43:37,269
agree with that. Yeah. I I always tell

1282
00:43:37,269 --> 00:43:39,190
everybody, always make the call. I mean, if

1283
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:41,349
if you resonated with what Corey said, make

1284
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:43,190
the call. If you resonated, shoot me shoot

1285
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:44,949
me an email, reach out to me on

1286
00:43:44,949 --> 00:43:46,569
on social media, on the website.

1287
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:48,949
The last thing Corey and I want you

1288
00:43:48,949 --> 00:43:50,864
to do is think that this is hard

1289
00:43:50,864 --> 00:43:52,625
and suffer alone. Corey and I know people,

1290
00:43:52,625 --> 00:43:54,545
I know people in all 50 states. So,

1291
00:43:54,785 --> 00:43:56,625
there's not there's not a there's not an

1292
00:43:56,625 --> 00:43:58,304
area out there that I don't know somebody

1293
00:43:58,304 --> 00:44:00,545
who can help you. So, yes, don't don't

1294
00:44:00,545 --> 00:44:02,369
do this alone and don't drag your feet.

1295
00:44:02,610 --> 00:44:04,369
I mean, especially if you're married. I mean,

1296
00:44:04,369 --> 00:44:05,490
if you're not married,

1297
00:44:05,809 --> 00:44:08,230
okay. Then maybe time isn't as important.

1298
00:44:08,849 --> 00:44:10,470
But, man, I would say if you're married,

1299
00:44:10,930 --> 00:44:13,010
don't drag your feet. If there's something you

1300
00:44:13,010 --> 00:44:15,090
need to do, go do it. This is

1301
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:17,190
every day that you put it off,

1302
00:44:18,485 --> 00:44:21,465
is increasing the likelihood of divorce pretty tremendously.

1303
00:44:21,605 --> 00:44:23,844
So, yeah, don't don't do that. Don't do

1304
00:44:23,844 --> 00:44:26,085
that. Corey, this was awesome, brother. Thanks for

1305
00:44:26,085 --> 00:44:27,844
thanks for coming on today. Likewise, Roland. Thanks

1306
00:44:27,844 --> 00:44:29,925
for having me. Thanks for listening to this

1307
00:44:29,925 --> 00:44:32,050
episode. If you are a high achiever of

1308
00:44:32,050 --> 00:44:33,650
the sex addiction and you're looking for a

1309
00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:36,210
recovery group full of like minded men, visit

1310
00:44:36,210 --> 00:44:37,650
successfuladdict.com.

1311
00:44:37,650 --> 00:44:40,449
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1312
00:44:40,449 --> 00:44:41,750
using four day retreats,

1313
00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:44,894
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

1314
00:44:44,894 --> 00:44:47,135
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

1315
00:44:47,135 --> 00:44:49,055
save your marriage, go to our website and

1316
00:44:49,055 --> 00:44:49,954
fill out our application.

1317
00:44:50,255 --> 00:44:52,735
If you enjoyed this episode, please pass it

1318
00:44:52,735 --> 00:44:54,335
along to a friend in recovery who would

1319
00:44:54,335 --> 00:44:56,335
benefit from listening. It is my mission to

1320
00:44:56,335 --> 00:44:58,026
get this information out to as many high

1321
00:44:58,026 --> 00:44:58,526
achievers

1322
00:44:58,907 --> 00:45:00,666
as possible, and I can't do it without

1323
00:45:00,666 --> 00:45:01,327
your help.