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– That is very specific in betrayal trauma between

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– the adult child

3
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– Mhmm. And the parent

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– because it’s… The adult child is an autonomous

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– person

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– but on the inside, they have the perception

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– of a child. Mhmm. Mhmm. Right? So there’s

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– a dynamic there that’s kind of unique. And

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– then also,

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– what the adult child

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– experiences, let’s say, they were little when there

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– was infidelity

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– and then find out later Yeah. Sure. That

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– there’s a lot of blame on

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– the betrayed spouse because of the trauma responses

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– that the children absorb.

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– You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

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– for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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– This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

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– recovery principles

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– specifically to the mindset of the high achiever.

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– I’m your host, Roland Cochran, founder of The

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– Successful Addict, a recovery group for high achieving

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– men struggling with sex and porn addiction. For

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– more information about joining our group or attending

26
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– our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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– And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

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– We always talk about disclosure when it comes

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– to your wife or young children. But what

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– about your adult children?

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– Well, you’ll find this requires a totally different

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– approach, and that’s what we talk about in

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– this episode.

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– Carly, thanks for coming on. Long time no

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– see. Saw you, what was that, like, eighteen

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– hours ago or something like that? Maybe twenty

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– four hours. Right? Eight hour or less. I’m

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– so excited to bring you on. I’m gonna

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– actually be hearing this with the audience for

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– the first time because my wife was set

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– in on the conference on your session, but

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– I missed it. And so I’m gonna be

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– hearing all this for the first time, and

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– I’m very excited. So the the topic is…

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– And I want you to clarify on on

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– this. What we’re gonna be talking about is

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– navigating the dynamic between

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– the

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– parents and the adult children. We can probably

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– talk about children in general too. I’ll probably

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– ask you questions about how this might vary

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– amongst children of different ages, but your talk

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– at the conference was primarily around adult children.

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– Carly, can you clarify to the audience what

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– we are talking about? Because I’m sure this…

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– To the civilians listening to this, they’re like,

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– I don’t know what the heck an adult

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– children is and what the dynamic is. So

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– can you can you frame for the audience

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– what we’re talking about? Yeah.

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– So I think that’s a great question

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– because when I first started working on this

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– topic, I was… I wasn’t interested in it

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– because I thought adult children meant

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– adult children of severe

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– sex addiction.

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– But then I realized, and I think this

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– is what the the the talk is… The

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– presentation is really honing in on is that

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– whenever there’s sexual infidelity on… Sexual integrity issue,

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– it affects everybody,

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– and we are all adult children of some

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– sort. Mhmm. And so so the whole point

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– of of the talk is saying

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– whether it’s, like, extreme or minor or or…

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– And it’s not to minimize one type over

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– the other.

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– We all we all are affected, number one.

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– And number two, there’s a dynamic

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– that is very specific in betrayal trauma between

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– the adult child

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– and the parent

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– because it’s… The adult child is an autonomous

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– person,

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– but on the inside, they have

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– the perception of a child. Mhmm. Mhmm. Right?

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– So there’s a dynamic there that kind of

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– unique. And then

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– also what the adult child

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– experiences, let’s

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– say, they were little when there was infidelity

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– and then find out later. Yeah. Sure. There’s

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– a lot of blame on the

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– betrayed spouse because of the trauma responses that

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– the children absorb.

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– Yes. And so there’s a lot of dynamics

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– there and and kind of just essentially,

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– what does the research say?

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– What does it look like they… Like, every

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– single day, and what is the hope going

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– forward?

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– Yeah. No. I I love it. I think

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– it’s such a… As I reflect back on

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– pretty much

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– to your point. Right?

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– Like, almost all of my clients and, you

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– know, as we think about ourselves too. Right?

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– Like, I I can’t tell you how many

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– times I’ve had clients come in and say,

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– I’m guessing there was infidelity

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– between my parents. They were just, you know,

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– I never I never found out about it,

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– and I’m not sure if my wife or

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– or something. I’m not sure if my dad…

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– If if my mom discovered my dad. Or

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– there’s times where… Because it was such a

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– different era back then. There’s times where they

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– suspect that their mom did know, but that

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– they really didn’t do anything about it, and

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– they just kind of let it be because

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– that was just kind of what what they

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– did back then. So… And and, again, before

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– we dive in, just for the audience listening

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– to this. Right? Like, so what we’re talking

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– about here is the experience of potentially for

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– some of the audience, your kids. Right? So

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– if you have kids who… And real quick,

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– what’s an adult child by definition of, like,

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– age range? How do we classify

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– Yeah. So I would say 18 and older.

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– Yep. And and I don’t really work with

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– children

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– because I don’t know how to… Like, I

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– don’t know how to speak to a child.

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– I’m really bad at speaking to children.

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– So it’s not quite children, I would say,

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– teens. Sure. But I I think it’s applicable

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– once you get the principle of what I’m

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– trying to say you can apply it to

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– your little ones too. Yeah. Sure. 100%. Because

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– because in the end, the betrayal

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– of

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– your marital dynamic as a as a father

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– married to their mom, absolutely, you know, as…

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– It will be perceived differently by different age

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– groups. But to your point, it’s it’s still

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– the concept… The stunt… The concept’s the same.

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– So, Carly, where do we begin with this?

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– Take us on this journey of wrapping our

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– head around this. Knowing that especially most of

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– the, you know, most of my audience are

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– going to be… I have a few c

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– sets that listen to this, but I mean,

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– the bulk are going to be betrayed partners

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– of men who have betrayed their wives. That’s

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– that’s primarily who I serve. And, again, I’d

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– say at least half of my clients,

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– do have adult children. Right? So I think

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– you’re directly speaking to people who have affected

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– their kids by this behavior. Take us on

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– this journey. I don’t even know where to

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– begin. Right. Okay. Let’s see where we can

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– find an anchoring

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– piece in terms of if I were on

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– the other side, what would I wanna hear?

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– Like, what is the thing that makes me

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– go, okay. That’s that’s really

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– speaking to my heart and soul. Yeah. Let’s

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– start there because, obviously, that’s the… You know,

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– anybody listening to a podcast, it’s like, hey.

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– Let’s get right to it. I’ve I’ve now

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– betrayed my wife, and I have kids who

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– are in their twenties, in their thirties. What

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– do I need to know? Like, give it

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– to me straight out of the gates. What’s

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– the big thing, betrayer that I need to

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– wrap my head around? And then I think

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– right off the back of that, if you

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– could also

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– pivot right over to the betrayed partner and

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– talk about the position that she plays within

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– this role.

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– Yeah. I think I will start with what

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– we actually witness and see the behavior that

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– is common that we see

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– displayed by adult children. Let’s do that. Yeah.

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– So I wanna put a caveat. Like, I’ll

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– always get a question in terms of timing

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– of when this behavior is, like, is it

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– straight after the child finds out? Is it

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– late in life? Is it… I think… I

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– mean, it’s irrelevant and it’s relevant, and so

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– that’s case by case. So I’m gonna speak

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– a lot, like, broad in general.

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– So the behaviors that we can relate to

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– in terms of adult children is… And I

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– wanna ask the listeners when they’re listening

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– to listen from the lens of themselves as

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– adult children. Okay. Right? Whether there’s infidelity or

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– not. Right?

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– So the behaviors we see is a big

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– big one is

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– when adult children distance themselves

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– because they’re overwhelmed,

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– angry, resentful,

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– and in pain. They’re just, like, can’t do

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– it,

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– and they just say, you guys go sort

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– out your thing.

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– Then we have another big big response we

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– see is the is the child who’s, like,

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– the euro child, the counselor, that that was

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– me in my situation where it’s, like, we’re

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– gonna help mom. We’re gonna talk to dad.

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– We’re gonna do everything we can. We’re gonna

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– save the family. Mhmm. And then we have…

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– That includes researching, like, treatment modalities and different

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– things like that. Right? Yes. And often, just

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– a side note, a way that families cope

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– in terms of

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– figuring out treatment is like this, like, grouping

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– around how we’re gonna fix this situation. And

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– then we throw in diagnoses, and we find

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– treatment plans, and and then dad’s a narcissist,

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– and then dad’s a sociopath, and then dad’s

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– autistic, and dad has ADHD.

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– And meanwhile, they have no idea that there’s

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– there’s a hidden addiction.

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– Right? So we have the hero. We have

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– the one who says they’re out. Then we

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– have the ones who are present, but that

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– are not. They’re like, we see what’s happening.

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– We really don’t want involvement.

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– They’re the avoiders. They’re like, we’ll be part

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– of the family, but we don’t wanna be

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– part of the conversation.

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– Mhmm. And so those are the broad ones.

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– Let’s get real specific.

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– A parent will will receive a response like

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– this.

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– Let’s say we have a mom who has

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– been totally disenfranchised.

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– She hasn’t been able to tell her story,

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– but the children have cut her off. Like,

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– that’s a very common dynamic because they’re… They’ve

246
00:08:59.089 –> 00:09:00.850
– seen her in her trauma, but they don’t

247
00:09:00.850 –> 00:09:02.610
– see it as trauma. They just see mom

248
00:09:02.610 –> 00:09:03.110
– depressed,

249
00:09:03.490 –> 00:09:05.509
– anxious, reactive, hypervigilant.

250
00:09:06.704 –> 00:09:09.584
– When they’re seeing that and mom comes to

251
00:09:09.584 –> 00:09:12.144
– them and is desperate to tell them the

252
00:09:12.144 –> 00:09:12.644
– story,

253
00:09:13.424 –> 00:09:15.924
– the the adult child will often

254
00:09:16.865 –> 00:09:20.144
– path… Feel like it… Feel like the adult

255
00:09:20.144 –> 00:09:21.829
– child is, like, pathologizing

256
00:09:22.209 –> 00:09:24.850
– mom by saying things like… I’m thinking things

257
00:09:24.850 –> 00:09:26.709
– like mom’s dramatic, mom’s

258
00:09:27.089 –> 00:09:27.589
– overreactive,

259
00:09:28.049 –> 00:09:30.690
– mom calls this. If mom was only more

260
00:09:30.690 –> 00:09:31.190
– normal

261
00:09:31.649 –> 00:09:32.149
– because

262
00:09:32.850 –> 00:09:35.190
– a common dynamic… This is not all dynamics.

263
00:09:35.250 –> 00:09:38.044
– A common dynamic is the stark difference

264
00:09:38.424 –> 00:09:39.245
– to mom’s

265
00:09:39.705 –> 00:09:40.205
– reactivity

266
00:09:40.585 –> 00:09:43.325
– is dad’s coolness. Mhmm. Like, he’s the easygoing

267
00:09:43.384 –> 00:09:45.625
– one. He’s the charismatic one. He’s the fun

268
00:09:45.625 –> 00:09:48.424
– one. And so mom looks crazy. Mhmm. And

269
00:09:48.424 –> 00:09:50.445
– it’s natural too to defend…

270
00:09:50.840 –> 00:09:52.679
– You know, I love my mom and my

271
00:09:52.679 –> 00:09:55.340
– dad. Right? So it’s it’s natural to defend

272
00:09:55.879 –> 00:09:57.960
– one of the parties when it feels as

273
00:09:57.960 –> 00:09:59.720
– if one of the other parties is trying

274
00:09:59.720 –> 00:10:01.639
– to attack the integrity of the other one.

275
00:10:01.639 –> 00:10:04.425
– Right? Okay. So I was telling my client…

276
00:10:04.425 –> 00:10:06.105
– Like, I was saying this in the presentation.

277
00:10:06.105 –> 00:10:08.205
– I’m so glad you mentioned that, Rylan, because

278
00:10:08.504 –> 00:10:11.085
– I said adult children will always

279
00:10:11.865 –> 00:10:14.345
– pick a good good and bad person, like

280
00:10:14.345 –> 00:10:16.925
– a good and bad character because by nature,

281
00:10:17.490 –> 00:10:19.809
– we have to find someone to blame. Mhmm.

282
00:10:19.809 –> 00:10:21.990
– If we think about when somebody dies,

283
00:10:22.850 –> 00:10:25.330
– we always have to blame blame someone. The

284
00:10:25.330 –> 00:10:27.409
– doctor didn’t take care. Mom didn’t take care

285
00:10:27.409 –> 00:10:29.330
– enough. We we didn’t get there in time.

286
00:10:29.330 –> 00:10:32.095
– The sibling neglected him. Mhmm. Like, it’s there’s

287
00:10:32.095 –> 00:10:33.315
– always a blame

288
00:10:34.254 –> 00:10:35.794
– when there’s an… A, like,

289
00:10:36.335 –> 00:10:37.075
– a catastrophic

290
00:10:37.615 –> 00:10:38.674
– thing that happens,

291
00:10:38.975 –> 00:10:41.394
– and mom is normally the one to blame.

292
00:10:41.855 –> 00:10:43.475
– Not always. Not always,

293
00:10:43.934 –> 00:10:46.174
– but often. Because it it can be the

294
00:10:46.174 –> 00:10:46.995
– case where

295
00:10:48.529 –> 00:10:51.110
– where the children have been privy

296
00:10:51.570 –> 00:10:52.389
– to dad’s

297
00:10:52.850 –> 00:10:54.470
– behavior towards mom,

298
00:10:54.769 –> 00:10:56.929
– and then they become very protective of a

299
00:10:56.929 –> 00:10:58.230
– mom. Right?

300
00:10:58.529 –> 00:11:01.090
– But then they feel guilt. Mhmm. Then there’s

301
00:11:01.090 –> 00:11:02.389
– a guilt. And so

302
00:11:02.914 –> 00:11:07.714
– my presentation name was divided loyalties. Mhmm. And

303
00:11:07.714 –> 00:11:09.174
– part of that is is

304
00:11:09.634 –> 00:11:11.814
– the going back and forth between

305
00:11:12.115 –> 00:11:14.034
– I’m loyal to mom or I’m loyal to

306
00:11:14.034 –> 00:11:15.954
– dad. I’m loyal to mom and I’m loyal

307
00:11:15.954 –> 00:11:16.559
– to dad.

308
00:11:17.120 –> 00:11:19.460
– And the reason why this is so

309
00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:23.539
– hurtful in the adult child system is because

310
00:11:24.399 –> 00:11:25.139
– the parents

311
00:11:25.679 –> 00:11:28.240
– should be serving as as what I call

312
00:11:28.240 –> 00:11:28.980
– the master

313
00:11:30.004 –> 00:11:30.504
– regulators…

314
00:11:31.365 –> 00:11:32.424
– Emotional regulators

315
00:11:32.804 –> 00:11:35.125
– of the family. Right? And when they’re not

316
00:11:35.125 –> 00:11:37.544
– doing that, it becomes wonky.

317
00:11:38.164 –> 00:11:40.404
– And so the child tries… The adult child

318
00:11:40.404 –> 00:11:41.705
– tries to find equilibrium.

319
00:11:42.164 –> 00:11:43.610
– Mhmm. I I feel like I’m going down

320
00:11:43.610 –> 00:11:45.370
– a rabbit path. But I think you’re getting

321
00:11:45.370 –> 00:11:47.690
– the point. We get pulled no matter what

322
00:11:47.690 –> 00:11:48.429
– we see.

323
00:11:48.889 –> 00:11:50.809
– The be… That’s the behavior. So that’s what

324
00:11:50.809 –> 00:11:52.169
– I was trying to say is that those

325
00:11:52.169 –> 00:11:52.910
– are the common

326
00:11:53.450 –> 00:11:53.950
– behaviors

327
00:11:54.410 –> 00:11:55.070
– and dynamics

328
00:11:55.735 –> 00:11:57.575
– that you would see. Yeah. From the different

329
00:11:57.575 –> 00:11:59.415
– from the different, and I I don’t wanna

330
00:11:59.415 –> 00:12:01.415
– go down this rabbit hole, but I do

331
00:12:01.415 –> 00:12:03.335
– want to speak to it before we forget

332
00:12:03.335 –> 00:12:04.934
– because I do think it’s very I do

333
00:12:04.934 –> 00:12:06.855
– think it’s very… One I wrote down, we’ll

334
00:12:06.855 –> 00:12:08.054
– come back to it. But the other one,

335
00:12:08.054 –> 00:12:09.415
– I do think… I just don’t wanna… I

336
00:12:09.415 –> 00:12:11.549
– wanna bring it up right now. Yeah. So

337
00:12:12.009 –> 00:12:13.850
– a dynamic that I have seen is that…

338
00:12:13.850 –> 00:12:15.690
– And again, I just want everybody listening to

339
00:12:15.690 –> 00:12:17.629
– this. When we say these, we’re not accusing.

340
00:12:18.169 –> 00:12:19.850
– None of these things always happen. So I

341
00:12:19.850 –> 00:12:21.690
– just want all the listeners to understand, these

342
00:12:21.690 –> 00:12:23.115
– are just examples of

343
00:12:23.514 –> 00:12:25.674
– different families and different dynamics. In no way

344
00:12:25.674 –> 00:12:28.235
– are we accusing every betrayed partner of doing

345
00:12:28.235 –> 00:12:30.394
– this and every father or mother from doing

346
00:12:30.394 –> 00:12:32.394
– this. I have seen… And it and it

347
00:12:32.394 –> 00:12:34.554
– depends. I’ve seen it twice. Sometimes it’s early

348
00:12:34.554 –> 00:12:36.789
– on in the… Close to the discovery, and

349
00:12:36.789 –> 00:12:38.870
– sometimes it’s a year or two after the

350
00:12:38.870 –> 00:12:39.370
– discovery.

351
00:12:39.829 –> 00:12:43.269
– The betrayed partner will, through whatever, through the

352
00:12:43.269 –> 00:12:45.909
– dynamic, but the the betrayed… You know, the

353
00:12:45.909 –> 00:12:48.089
– the mother who was betrayed by her husband,

354
00:12:48.434 –> 00:12:50.035
– They’ll come to this point where she begins

355
00:12:50.035 –> 00:12:52.514
– to recruit the children to her point of

356
00:12:52.514 –> 00:12:54.695
– view and actually turn them against

357
00:12:55.075 –> 00:12:57.554
– their father. Can you speak to this? Because

358
00:12:57.554 –> 00:12:58.754
– I see it happen at both times. Like

359
00:12:58.754 –> 00:13:00.274
– I said, I’ve seen it happen in the

360
00:13:00.274 –> 00:13:02.129
– beginning just, I think, because of the pain

361
00:13:02.129 –> 00:13:03.330
– and the hurt, and I’ve also seen it

362
00:13:03.330 –> 00:13:05.169
– happen around a year or two later, I

363
00:13:05.169 –> 00:13:07.750
– think, when maybe some of the expectations of

364
00:13:07.970 –> 00:13:09.429
– healing have not been met.

365
00:13:09.809 –> 00:13:12.210
– Talk about that dynamic. Obviously, I think we

366
00:13:12.210 –> 00:13:14.690
– all agree that doing that blatantly is unhealthy,

367
00:13:14.690 –> 00:13:16.065
– but I think it happens by accident. Accident.

368
00:13:16.065 –> 00:13:17.544
– I don’t think any of these… I don’t

369
00:13:17.544 –> 00:13:19.644
– think any of the betrayed partners do this

370
00:13:19.705 –> 00:13:21.785
– intentionally ever. But can you speak to that

371
00:13:21.785 –> 00:13:23.644
– dynamic a little bit before we move on?

372
00:13:23.865 –> 00:13:26.664
– Oh, yeah. So I would say at its

373
00:13:26.664 –> 00:13:28.524
– core, that is the partner’s

374
00:13:29.065 –> 00:13:29.565
– attempt

375
00:13:30.179 –> 00:13:33.220
– to drive the family back to some sense

376
00:13:33.220 –> 00:13:34.440
– of secure functioning

377
00:13:34.820 –> 00:13:37.539
– the best way she can. Mhmm. Like… So

378
00:13:37.539 –> 00:13:40.120
– anything… Like, I just wanna put a disclaimer

379
00:13:40.259 –> 00:13:41.879
– here. Our brains,

380
00:13:42.259 –> 00:13:44.919
– our attachment systems are wired to connect.

381
00:13:45.684 –> 00:13:46.584
– We biologically

382
00:13:47.524 –> 00:13:49.225
– don’t know what to do with betrayal.

383
00:13:49.684 –> 00:13:52.485
– Like, our brains don’t know. Our minds do,

384
00:13:52.485 –> 00:13:55.204
– but our brains don’t. So when a mom

385
00:13:55.204 –> 00:13:57.445
– responds in that way where she, like, tries

386
00:13:57.445 –> 00:13:58.105
– to group

387
00:13:58.759 –> 00:14:01.000
– somebody around her, like, the kids around her

388
00:14:01.000 –> 00:14:01.500
– idea,

389
00:14:01.960 –> 00:14:04.679
– she’s trying to navigate something her brain has…

390
00:14:04.679 –> 00:14:07.399
– Was never meant to do anyways. Right? But

391
00:14:07.399 –> 00:14:08.379
– at the core,

392
00:14:08.759 –> 00:14:10.059
– she’s trying to

393
00:14:10.535 –> 00:14:12.955
– find equilibrium. She’s trying to find…

394
00:14:13.335 –> 00:14:15.514
– You know, there’s a function for the family.

395
00:14:16.055 –> 00:14:18.934
– And then I wanna be careful here because

396
00:14:18.934 –> 00:14:21.575
– this is different for every mom. Mhmm. Or

397
00:14:21.575 –> 00:14:23.415
– let’s say it’s a it’s a, you know,

398
00:14:23.415 –> 00:14:23.915
– male

399
00:14:24.500 –> 00:14:26.580
– betrayal towards a man looks a little bit

400
00:14:26.580 –> 00:14:28.580
– different in how they respond. They just get

401
00:14:28.580 –> 00:14:30.659
– angry and quiet and remove themselves from the

402
00:14:30.659 –> 00:14:31.159
– kids.

403
00:14:31.620 –> 00:14:33.799
– Or I feel like it’s often more

404
00:14:34.500 –> 00:14:35.000
– men

405
00:14:35.379 –> 00:14:36.839
– who group the kids

406
00:14:37.220 –> 00:14:37.720
– around

407
00:14:38.259 –> 00:14:38.759
– mom

408
00:14:39.365 –> 00:14:41.464
– then mom mom is… Like,

409
00:14:41.924 –> 00:14:42.424
– typically,

410
00:14:43.044 –> 00:14:44.504
– the mom would be more

411
00:14:45.365 –> 00:14:45.865
– passive

412
00:14:46.884 –> 00:14:48.105
– than direct.

413
00:14:48.485 –> 00:14:49.384
– Yes. Right?

414
00:14:49.764 –> 00:14:52.245
– And so… But if we’re talking specifically about

415
00:14:52.245 –> 00:14:55.000
– the mom, the one thing is is considering

416
00:14:55.059 –> 00:14:57.139
– the family dynamic. Like, what… How do we

417
00:14:57.139 –> 00:14:59.779
– keep the family together? And then secondly, there’s

418
00:14:59.779 –> 00:15:03.639
– always a personal reason. Right? And often because

419
00:15:03.700 –> 00:15:04.200
– moms

420
00:15:05.264 –> 00:15:07.345
– give up their whole entire lives and they

421
00:15:07.345 –> 00:15:09.605
– invest all their time into their little families,

422
00:15:10.144 –> 00:15:12.165
– into it being the specific

423
00:15:12.545 –> 00:15:13.445
– family unit,

424
00:15:13.904 –> 00:15:16.004
– if they lose their kids, they lose themselves.

425
00:15:16.225 –> 00:15:18.625
– Mhmm. Mhmm. So it’s a… It’s not… It’s

426
00:15:18.625 –> 00:15:21.480
– like, I don’t wanna call it selfish because

427
00:15:23.139 –> 00:15:26.120
– they’re they’re responding from a a deep hurt.

428
00:15:26.259 –> 00:15:28.840
– Right? But truly, at the core,

429
00:15:29.779 –> 00:15:32.740
– there’s a risk there. If I lose the

430
00:15:32.740 –> 00:15:34.279
– integrity of my kids

431
00:15:35.024 –> 00:15:36.865
– and then what they view of me after

432
00:15:36.865 –> 00:15:39.584
– I’ve forsaken my whole entire life, I’ve given

433
00:15:39.584 –> 00:15:41.424
– up my career, I’ve done all of this,

434
00:15:41.424 –> 00:15:43.745
– then I’ve done it for nothing. Yes. Yes.

435
00:15:43.745 –> 00:15:46.144
– Yes. So there is that element and… But

436
00:15:46.144 –> 00:15:47.365
– it’s different for…

437
00:15:48.360 –> 00:15:50.539
– Women don’t always want revenge.

438
00:15:51.000 –> 00:15:53.559
– Men want revenge. Yes. Yes. They’re gonna… If

439
00:15:53.559 –> 00:15:55.820
– they’re gonna group the kids around, it’s revengeful.

440
00:15:56.200 –> 00:15:58.120
– Sure. If the if the moms do it,

441
00:15:58.120 –> 00:15:59.019
– it’s more protective

442
00:15:59.399 –> 00:16:01.945
– of, like, can you see me? Can you

443
00:16:01.945 –> 00:16:03.784
– see my hurt? And I’m in sent in

444
00:16:03.784 –> 00:16:05.225
– this. Yeah. And you brought up such a

445
00:16:05.225 –> 00:16:07.485
– great point, Carly. Like, this is all,

446
00:16:07.865 –> 00:16:09.725
– you know, for lack of better words, subconscious.

447
00:16:09.865 –> 00:16:12.264
– Right? Like, our our desire to to save

448
00:16:12.264 –> 00:16:14.445
– the family, our desire to save our relationship

449
00:16:14.745 –> 00:16:16.799
– with our kids. We are… Your connection is

450
00:16:17.200 –> 00:16:19.200
– connection is is… It’s so important, and we

451
00:16:19.200 –> 00:16:20.799
– all wanna make sure that we’re seen in

452
00:16:20.799 –> 00:16:22.159
– a certain way. And so a lot of

453
00:16:22.159 –> 00:16:24.580
– these things while, you know, from the outside

454
00:16:24.639 –> 00:16:26.320
– and and maybe the way Carly and I

455
00:16:26.320 –> 00:16:27.600
– make it sound, it sounds like, oh, hey.

456
00:16:27.600 –> 00:16:30.024
– All these unhealthy things are happening. Carly and

457
00:16:30.024 –> 00:16:31.625
– I do those unhealthy things in our own

458
00:16:31.625 –> 00:16:33.625
– life too, so we’re not we’re not… You

459
00:16:33.625 –> 00:16:35.465
– know, these things are are flying under the

460
00:16:35.465 –> 00:16:37.065
– radar. We’re just doing the best we can

461
00:16:37.065 –> 00:16:38.424
– to… And I do want… You brought up

462
00:16:38.424 –> 00:16:39.544
– a good point because I do want you

463
00:16:39.544 –> 00:16:40.985
– to speak to that point. It’s… I think

464
00:16:40.985 –> 00:16:42.664
– it would only be fair to flip over

465
00:16:42.664 –> 00:16:43.565
– to the

466
00:16:44.110 –> 00:16:46.690
– dad betraying partner in this example

467
00:16:47.070 –> 00:16:48.750
– because you bring up such a great point,

468
00:16:48.750 –> 00:16:51.250
– especially in that first, you know, year of

469
00:16:51.470 –> 00:16:54.769
– crisis and anger and just betrayal craziness.

470
00:16:55.149 –> 00:16:57.250
– I do agree with you. I do see

471
00:16:57.714 –> 00:16:59.554
– the calm dad, you know, which is always

472
00:16:59.554 –> 00:17:01.554
– so obnoxious because he always comes off as

473
00:17:01.554 –> 00:17:03.154
– as collected. I mean, even though, like you

474
00:17:03.154 –> 00:17:05.234
– said, underneath it all is this, you know,

475
00:17:05.234 –> 00:17:08.434
– complete total entitlement and betrayal, etcetera. But you

476
00:17:08.434 –> 00:17:09.954
– do bring up a good point. There is

477
00:17:09.954 –> 00:17:13.190
– this, hey, I hurt her. Sorry. She’s so

478
00:17:13.190 –> 00:17:15.609
– crazy. But it’s still not a unified,

479
00:17:16.389 –> 00:17:18.329
– I hurt your mom. We’re in this together.

480
00:17:18.629 –> 00:17:21.349
– It… It’s very much, she’s acting nuts. I’m

481
00:17:21.349 –> 00:17:23.750
– sorry. She’s acting nuts. I know I caused

482
00:17:23.750 –> 00:17:25.750
– it, but she’s still acting crazy. But he’s

483
00:17:25.750 –> 00:17:28.045
– still in the same way kind of recruiting

484
00:17:28.045 –> 00:17:29.265
– the kids to his,

485
00:17:29.565 –> 00:17:31.005
– you know, I wish she could act like…

486
00:17:31.005 –> 00:17:32.285
– I I wish she could act as calm

487
00:17:32.285 –> 00:17:33.884
– and cool as me. Can can you speak

488
00:17:33.884 –> 00:17:35.404
– to that dynamic as well, or is it

489
00:17:35.404 –> 00:17:36.625
– basically the same thing?

490
00:17:36.924 –> 00:17:39.244
– Men listening to this who have adult children

491
00:17:39.244 –> 00:17:40.740
– to be careful. Right? Because I don’t want

492
00:17:40.740 –> 00:17:42.820
– them to cause any harm. And then if

493
00:17:42.820 –> 00:17:44.900
– this has already been done, I also want

494
00:17:44.900 –> 00:17:45.880
– you to help them

495
00:17:46.180 –> 00:17:48.339
– apologize and kind of do some some some

496
00:17:48.339 –> 00:17:50.420
– repair work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I

497
00:17:50.420 –> 00:17:51.640
– wanna go to

498
00:17:52.339 –> 00:17:54.500
– the ideal situation because I think it will

499
00:17:54.500 –> 00:17:57.755
– speak to both. Mhmm. And the ideal situation

500
00:17:57.755 –> 00:17:58.255
– whether

501
00:17:58.634 –> 00:18:01.994
– this response has happened or not is based

502
00:18:01.994 –> 00:18:04.335
– off the principle and the premise that

503
00:18:04.634 –> 00:18:05.615
– if the parents

504
00:18:06.714 –> 00:18:09.375
– are the life force of the family,

505
00:18:09.900 –> 00:18:12.859
– They’ve gotta be okay first. Mhmm. And so

506
00:18:12.859 –> 00:18:14.400
– because there’s been a disempowerment,

507
00:18:15.820 –> 00:18:16.559
– it is

508
00:18:16.940 –> 00:18:19.900
– a a disempowerment and a disenfranchise of one

509
00:18:19.900 –> 00:18:21.680
– partner. It is the responsibility

510
00:18:22.059 –> 00:18:23.039
– of that partner

511
00:18:23.515 –> 00:18:25.914
– to take the charge and the lead. And

512
00:18:25.914 –> 00:18:27.934
– when I say that, it… It’s it’s accountability.

513
00:18:28.234 –> 00:18:29.994
– It’s saying, hey. This is me. It’s not

514
00:18:29.994 –> 00:18:31.515
– your mom or, hey. This is me. It’s

515
00:18:31.515 –> 00:18:32.494
– not your dad.

516
00:18:33.035 –> 00:18:34.015
– It’s my responsibility.

517
00:18:35.035 –> 00:18:36.974
– And then from there on,

518
00:18:37.339 –> 00:18:39.580
– do… If if the children are interested doing

519
00:18:39.580 –> 00:18:41.759
– some sort of disclosure and bringing it together.

520
00:18:42.700 –> 00:18:44.160
– But I do have something…

521
00:18:44.539 –> 00:18:46.640
– A caveat there is that…

522
00:18:47.259 –> 00:18:50.240
– Well, there’s two things. The first is…

523
00:18:50.785 –> 00:18:52.944
– I’m saying this… I’m gonna say what people

524
00:18:52.944 –> 00:18:53.444
– know

525
00:18:53.744 –> 00:18:55.444
– but are afraid to say it.

526
00:18:55.984 –> 00:18:57.125
– And that is

527
00:18:57.585 –> 00:18:58.085
– often…

528
00:18:58.625 –> 00:18:59.684
– This is very risky.

529
00:19:00.625 –> 00:19:01.125
– Often,

530
00:19:01.424 –> 00:19:03.045
– when there has been betrayal

531
00:19:03.424 –> 00:19:04.565
– towards a female,

532
00:19:05.309 –> 00:19:07.250
– there’s often an an undercurrent

533
00:19:07.710 –> 00:19:08.210
– addiction.

534
00:19:08.829 –> 00:19:12.130
– Right? Because of idea of, like, boys access

535
00:19:12.190 –> 00:19:14.529
– porn quicker and they’re sexualized

536
00:19:14.829 –> 00:19:17.250
– younger and and so that happens.

537
00:19:17.914 –> 00:19:20.095
– But often and not always,

538
00:19:20.634 –> 00:19:22.154
– because I know a lot of good men

539
00:19:22.154 –> 00:19:23.375
– that have been betrayed

540
00:19:23.835 –> 00:19:25.454
– by no fault of their own,

541
00:19:25.755 –> 00:19:27.294
– but often the kids

542
00:19:27.914 –> 00:19:28.734
– will see

543
00:19:29.275 –> 00:19:30.255
– dad is absent,

544
00:19:31.250 –> 00:19:32.950
– dad doesn’t listen to mom,

545
00:19:33.570 –> 00:19:34.390
– dad doesn’t…

546
00:19:34.930 –> 00:19:37.250
– Because dad doesn’t have a relationship with us,

547
00:19:37.250 –> 00:19:40.049
– but they they know something’s wrong, but they

548
00:19:40.049 –> 00:19:43.490
– can’t pinpoint it, that it’s almost like adult

549
00:19:43.490 –> 00:19:45.269
– children understand more

550
00:19:45.835 –> 00:19:48.555
– when mom cheats Mhmm. Mhmm. Than when dad

551
00:19:48.555 –> 00:19:49.615
– does. Not always,

552
00:19:49.914 –> 00:19:52.095
– but I have seen it where it’s like,

553
00:19:52.154 –> 00:19:53.835
– oh, but dad is so absent. Dad was

554
00:19:53.835 –> 00:19:56.075
– always working. I think the confusion for the

555
00:19:56.075 –> 00:19:58.720
– adult child comes in when it’s like, but

556
00:19:58.720 –> 00:20:01.059
– I thought you guys were so happy. Yeah.

557
00:20:01.119 –> 00:20:03.460
– Right? And so I think that’s the

558
00:20:04.319 –> 00:20:06.960
– the the internal… Like, the crazy making for

559
00:20:06.960 –> 00:20:07.539
– the kids.

560
00:20:07.839 –> 00:20:09.839
– What they see and then what the parents

561
00:20:09.839 –> 00:20:10.819
– don’t tell them

562
00:20:11.414 –> 00:20:13.134
– because they’re young and it feels like… And

563
00:20:13.134 –> 00:20:14.215
– I don’t know if the… Now is a

564
00:20:14.215 –> 00:20:15.735
– good time to go to that or if

565
00:20:15.735 –> 00:20:17.174
– you have something that would be… Would make

566
00:20:17.174 –> 00:20:18.475
– sense to bring up before.

567
00:20:18.855 –> 00:20:20.154
– But you said something

568
00:20:20.455 –> 00:20:22.615
– earlier that I really wanna get to, which

569
00:20:22.615 –> 00:20:23.115
– is

570
00:20:23.549 –> 00:20:24.289
– this whole

571
00:20:24.590 –> 00:20:25.090
– betrayal

572
00:20:25.630 –> 00:20:28.509
– gaslighting thing that you’re doing to your kids.

573
00:20:28.509 –> 00:20:30.289
– Right? Because I think inherently,

574
00:20:30.830 –> 00:20:32.190
– you know, the same thing we talk about

575
00:20:32.190 –> 00:20:34.590
– with the betrayal dynamic of, oh, hey. I’m

576
00:20:34.590 –> 00:20:36.674
– living this life and you’re actually not. Right?

577
00:20:36.674 –> 00:20:38.755
– And then you’re saying all these things Yeah.

578
00:20:38.995 –> 00:20:41.475
– That whether you’re intentionally gaslighting or gaslighting by

579
00:20:41.475 –> 00:20:42.615
– accident, you’re basically

580
00:20:43.315 –> 00:20:46.195
– giving… I mean, you’re telling everyone that everything

581
00:20:46.195 –> 00:20:48.195
– is one way and then it’s not. Kids

582
00:20:48.195 –> 00:20:49.740
– are included in this too. I really want

583
00:20:51.660 –> 00:20:51.713
– you to speak to that because this is

584
00:20:51.713 –> 00:20:52.619
– not something that is talked about and these

585
00:20:52.619 –> 00:20:53.759
– kids have been

586
00:20:54.140 –> 00:20:56.140
– betrayed and gaslit to a degree as well.

587
00:20:56.140 –> 00:20:57.579
– Can you talk about that dynamic or is

588
00:20:57.579 –> 00:20:59.500
– there something we should get to before? Well,

589
00:20:59.500 –> 00:21:01.099
– no. I think I can speak to that,

590
00:21:01.099 –> 00:21:03.519
– but I I will tell you something personal.

591
00:21:04.644 –> 00:21:07.065
– A response I have when I hear somebody

592
00:21:07.125 –> 00:21:07.625
– says,

593
00:21:09.285 –> 00:21:10.984
– oh, we’re gaslighting the children.

594
00:21:11.444 –> 00:21:13.285
– And I think the thing is that I

595
00:21:13.285 –> 00:21:16.105
– have a a hair… An inherent, like, defense

596
00:21:16.404 –> 00:21:18.569
– when I hear that because I… When… As

597
00:21:18.569 –> 00:21:20.429
– soon as we put a label to something,

598
00:21:20.650 –> 00:21:22.890
– it makes it harder to talk about because

599
00:21:22.890 –> 00:21:24.730
– it’s like it’s given a title and you

600
00:21:24.730 –> 00:21:26.669
– can’t… Then then intention

601
00:21:27.609 –> 00:21:28.109
– goes

602
00:21:28.890 –> 00:21:31.150
– missing. Right? It just goes missing.

603
00:21:31.769 –> 00:21:32.589
– And so

604
00:21:32.890 –> 00:21:33.549
– I think

605
00:21:34.224 –> 00:21:36.724
– a better way to frame it is that,

606
00:21:37.024 –> 00:21:38.724
– like, it’s not a… It’s not

607
00:21:39.424 –> 00:21:42.704
– gaslighting in the sense of intentional misleading, but

608
00:21:42.704 –> 00:21:43.684
– it is misleading.

609
00:21:43.984 –> 00:21:45.924
– Sure. It it really is misleading,

610
00:21:46.730 –> 00:21:48.029
– but with good intentions.

611
00:21:48.650 –> 00:21:51.049
– Yeah. It’s a very weird dynamic because I

612
00:21:51.049 –> 00:21:53.369
– don’t know a single parent who doesn’t tell

613
00:21:53.369 –> 00:21:56.090
– their kids because of a bad intention. Yes.

614
00:21:56.090 –> 00:21:58.250
– Yes. Right. And semantics do… And and I

615
00:21:58.250 –> 00:21:59.529
– do… You know, I don’t wanna go down

616
00:21:59.529 –> 00:22:00.970
– that rabbit hole, but I do just wanna

617
00:22:00.970 –> 00:22:03.515
– highlight what Carly said. Semantics do matter. Oh,

618
00:22:03.515 –> 00:22:05.914
– okay…. Do matter. If it’s… We gotta be

619
00:22:05.914 –> 00:22:08.875
– very careful with words like gaslighting, very careful

620
00:22:08.875 –> 00:22:11.035
– with words, even betrayal. We, you know, we

621
00:22:11.035 –> 00:22:12.234
– just need to… You know, if we’re gonna

622
00:22:12.234 –> 00:22:14.394
– use a word, it… We need to really

623
00:22:14.394 –> 00:22:16.500
– make sure it applies. I always say, let’s

624
00:22:16.500 –> 00:22:17.700
– see if we can’t just talk about the

625
00:22:17.700 –> 00:22:19.539
– situation without the word, which I really liked

626
00:22:19.539 –> 00:22:21.960
– what you just did there was the situation

627
00:22:22.340 –> 00:22:24.420
– misled the children. I love that. But please

628
00:22:24.420 –> 00:22:26.500
– continue. I do appreciate what you did there.

629
00:22:26.500 –> 00:22:28.740
– And I will also say another word that

630
00:22:28.740 –> 00:22:30.934
– I, like, go no. No. No. No. Let’s

631
00:22:30.934 –> 00:22:33.494
– not pathologize that is the simple term of

632
00:22:33.494 –> 00:22:33.994
– triangulation.

633
00:22:34.615 –> 00:22:36.695
– Yeah. Sure. Right? Because it… You can ask

634
00:22:36.695 –> 00:22:38.855
– me about that later. But back to the

635
00:22:38.855 –> 00:22:39.994
– gaslighting thing.

636
00:22:40.535 –> 00:22:41.195
– I think

637
00:22:42.099 –> 00:22:44.259
– the parents are making a decision when the

638
00:22:44.259 –> 00:22:46.659
– kids are younger based off of how they…

639
00:22:46.659 –> 00:22:48.899
– How the system is run, what the children

640
00:22:48.899 –> 00:22:50.740
– are like, what is the setting in the

641
00:22:50.740 –> 00:22:52.500
– moment, are they in the middle of, like,

642
00:22:52.500 –> 00:22:54.579
– final exams, do they have to apply to

643
00:22:54.579 –> 00:22:55.079
– college?

644
00:22:55.525 –> 00:22:57.625
– Like, it’s like there’s so many things

645
00:22:57.924 –> 00:23:00.585
– because the parent isn’t just thinking of themselves.

646
00:23:00.884 –> 00:23:02.265
– They’re thinking of themselves,

647
00:23:02.644 –> 00:23:05.525
– the marriage, the family unit, the child’s past,

648
00:23:05.525 –> 00:23:07.924
– present, and future. And so if they’re not

649
00:23:07.924 –> 00:23:11.090
– saying, they’re saying that think… Considering all those

650
00:23:11.090 –> 00:23:12.070
– things. Right?

651
00:23:12.529 –> 00:23:15.250
– And so, yes, sometimes you don’t tell the

652
00:23:15.250 –> 00:23:15.750
– child.

653
00:23:16.289 –> 00:23:18.049
– And the hope is that later in life

654
00:23:18.049 –> 00:23:20.450
– when you do tell the child, the the

655
00:23:20.450 –> 00:23:20.950
– relationship

656
00:23:21.330 –> 00:23:21.990
– is such

657
00:23:22.304 –> 00:23:23.044
– that there

658
00:23:23.384 –> 00:23:23.884
– is,

659
00:23:24.865 –> 00:23:27.904
– possibility for restoration and repair. Like, they have

660
00:23:27.904 –> 00:23:29.204
– the skills of listening,

661
00:23:29.984 –> 00:23:30.484
– empathizing.

662
00:23:31.105 –> 00:23:33.105
– So it’s not a dead end. Let’s say

663
00:23:33.105 –> 00:23:34.784
– you didn’t tell your kids because of the

664
00:23:34.784 –> 00:23:35.284
– timing,

665
00:23:35.659 –> 00:23:38.059
– and they’ll be pissed. They’re gonna be mad

666
00:23:38.059 –> 00:23:41.039
– because they’re… They they think they wanna know.

667
00:23:41.099 –> 00:23:42.880
– Right? And then sometimes

668
00:23:43.339 –> 00:23:45.740
– you have to tell the kids. Like, for

669
00:23:45.740 –> 00:23:46.240
– example,

670
00:23:46.619 –> 00:23:47.359
– this weekend,

671
00:23:48.255 –> 00:23:50.734
– the amount of times I’ve heard about,

672
00:23:51.055 –> 00:23:53.855
– law enforcement being involved Sure. Like, the kids

673
00:23:53.855 –> 00:23:55.695
– are going to be impacted. They don’t have

674
00:23:55.695 –> 00:23:57.234
– a choice they need to be told.

675
00:23:57.535 –> 00:23:58.994
– Right? And then also,

676
00:23:59.615 –> 00:24:01.555
– if there’s a stark difference

677
00:24:02.279 –> 00:24:04.220
– in the behavior of mom and dad,

678
00:24:04.680 –> 00:24:06.779
– the kids are going… They have to know.

679
00:24:06.920 –> 00:24:08.599
– Mhmm. Right? They have to know, and you

680
00:24:08.599 –> 00:24:10.680
– don’t have to tell them what. You have

681
00:24:10.680 –> 00:24:13.720
– to validate. Yes. Some things have changed. Yes.

682
00:24:13.720 –> 00:24:16.194
– Things are gonna change. Yes, you’ve noticed mom

683
00:24:16.194 –> 00:24:17.654
– and dad’s behavior change.

684
00:24:17.954 –> 00:24:19.714
– What is it that you’re noticing? What are

685
00:24:19.714 –> 00:24:21.315
– you feeling? What is it that you’re making

686
00:24:21.315 –> 00:24:22.855
– up because of our behavior?

687
00:24:23.315 –> 00:24:25.414
– You don’t have to tell them until later.

688
00:24:25.875 –> 00:24:26.375
– But,

689
00:24:26.755 –> 00:24:28.615
– like, I I always tell my clients,

690
00:24:29.119 –> 00:24:29.940
– I have this

691
00:24:30.400 –> 00:24:32.580
– metaphor where I say paint the dragon red.

692
00:24:32.720 –> 00:24:34.559
– Like, if there was a a dragon in

693
00:24:34.559 –> 00:24:36.799
– the room, like, just paint it red so

694
00:24:36.799 –> 00:24:38.019
– that you can see it.

695
00:24:38.320 –> 00:24:40.500
– Label that there is something going on.

696
00:24:40.799 –> 00:24:42.259
– You don’t have to give details,

697
00:24:42.720 –> 00:24:44.654
– but but the kid knows. And I think

698
00:24:44.734 –> 00:24:46.894
– that is not gaslighting or misleading. No. No.

699
00:24:46.894 –> 00:24:48.174
– Can… And can you speak to… I don’t

700
00:24:48.174 –> 00:24:50.414
– wanna get into details, but a question that

701
00:24:50.414 –> 00:24:52.575
– comes up quite often is when do we

702
00:24:52.575 –> 00:24:53.555
– tell the kids?

703
00:24:53.934 –> 00:24:55.934
– How do we tell the kids? Carly, is

704
00:24:55.934 –> 00:24:58.029
– there a resource? A… I mean, what can

705
00:24:58.029 –> 00:24:59.549
– you, you know, now is not the time

706
00:24:59.549 –> 00:25:01.309
– to really get into the details of it.

707
00:25:01.309 –> 00:25:02.609
– But can you,

708
00:25:03.230 –> 00:25:05.070
– answer that for the parents listening to this?

709
00:25:05.070 –> 00:25:06.589
– Because I… It’s, you know, and and you

710
00:25:06.589 –> 00:25:08.109
– can give them answers for all of this

711
00:25:08.109 –> 00:25:10.670
– because obviously telling adult children is different than

712
00:25:10.670 –> 00:25:14.125
– telling teenage children and and tiny children. Let’s

713
00:25:14.125 –> 00:25:15.244
– speak to that real quick because that is

714
00:25:15.244 –> 00:25:16.765
– probably my number one question I get is

715
00:25:16.765 –> 00:25:18.285
– how do I tell them and what’s the

716
00:25:18.285 –> 00:25:20.045
– proper way to do this? Is it therapeutic?

717
00:25:20.045 –> 00:25:21.325
– Is it at home? How does this whole

718
00:25:21.325 –> 00:25:24.045
– thing work? Yep. So I love this question.

719
00:25:24.045 –> 00:25:25.805
– It’s my favorite question in the world when

720
00:25:25.805 –> 00:25:27.105
– it comes to this because

721
00:25:27.799 –> 00:25:30.519
– the disclosure to adult kids is not the

722
00:25:30.519 –> 00:25:32.539
– same as disclosure to

723
00:25:33.000 –> 00:25:36.539
– partners because partners have a different relationship. Right?

724
00:25:36.839 –> 00:25:38.839
– So it’s not when and what to tell

725
00:25:38.839 –> 00:25:40.919
– them. It’s you first find out what they

726
00:25:40.919 –> 00:25:42.359
– what they know and what they want to

727
00:25:42.359 –> 00:25:44.404
– know. And so you go to the kids

728
00:25:44.404 –> 00:25:45.464
– and you say, hey.

729
00:25:46.164 –> 00:25:48.505
– Let’s not be naive. What have you noticed?

730
00:25:48.805 –> 00:25:51.605
– Like, hey. The the dynamics changed. What are

731
00:25:51.605 –> 00:25:53.144
– you making up? What are you believing?

732
00:25:54.005 –> 00:25:56.025
– And then you inch it a little bit.

733
00:25:56.164 –> 00:25:56.640
– Mhmm.

734
00:25:57.119 –> 00:25:59.920
– Okay. So there’s been infill… Infidelity in the

735
00:25:59.920 –> 00:26:02.420
– in the relationship, or there’s been some some

736
00:26:02.640 –> 00:26:05.380
– compulsive behavior. Do you wanna know more? Yes.

737
00:26:05.599 –> 00:26:07.680
– You you have to base it off of

738
00:26:07.680 –> 00:26:08.980
– every single child,

739
00:26:09.434 –> 00:26:12.654
– how you know every single child will respond.

740
00:26:13.034 –> 00:26:14.734
– It also depends on

741
00:26:15.115 –> 00:26:17.194
– whether you’re telling all the kids. Adult kids

742
00:26:17.194 –> 00:26:19.835
– don’t live together anymore than… Like, it used

743
00:26:19.835 –> 00:26:21.835
– to be that… Like, boomers used to live

744
00:26:21.835 –> 00:26:24.730
– five miles away from each other. Millennials are

745
00:26:24.730 –> 00:26:26.829
– all over the country now, and so

746
00:26:27.529 –> 00:26:30.509
– being practical about it is another another thing.

747
00:26:30.650 –> 00:26:32.029
– And then also considering,

748
00:26:32.890 –> 00:26:33.390
– sibling

749
00:26:33.849 –> 00:26:36.109
– positioning is super, super important.

750
00:26:36.875 –> 00:26:37.934
– If you have

751
00:26:39.355 –> 00:26:39.934
– a ringleader,

752
00:26:40.554 –> 00:26:42.714
– if you have a child who’s like, I

753
00:26:42.714 –> 00:26:45.034
– wanna know everything and give me all the

754
00:26:45.034 –> 00:26:45.534
– details,

755
00:26:45.835 –> 00:26:47.514
– you bet your bottom dollar, you tell that

756
00:26:47.514 –> 00:26:49.919
– kid first, the whole family’s gonna know. Mhmm.

757
00:26:49.919 –> 00:26:53.059
– So you have to be, like, strategic

758
00:26:53.519 –> 00:26:56.319
– about when and which kid based off of

759
00:26:56.319 –> 00:26:58.159
– how it’s gonna impact the family. And do

760
00:26:58.159 –> 00:27:00.639
– you recommend this being done there? Because I’ve

761
00:27:00.639 –> 00:27:02.339
– seen a lot of disagreement

762
00:27:02.799 –> 00:27:05.299
– between the partners on

763
00:27:06.215 –> 00:27:08.455
– what… How how to tell, who to tell,

764
00:27:08.455 –> 00:27:10.695
– when to tell. It’s it’s a very… It

765
00:27:10.695 –> 00:27:13.575
– adds another layer to this crisis phase. Do

766
00:27:13.575 –> 00:27:16.455
– you recommend this conversation happen in therapy around

767
00:27:16.455 –> 00:27:17.755
– the strategy of this?

768
00:27:18.089 –> 00:27:20.730
– Yeah. Absolutely. If they’re… If it’s accessible and

769
00:27:20.730 –> 00:27:22.190
– they can do it, then yes.

770
00:27:22.890 –> 00:27:23.390
– But

771
00:27:23.769 –> 00:27:27.529
– the principle stays. The… If if if it’s

772
00:27:27.529 –> 00:27:30.650
– possible, the principle stays that parents need to

773
00:27:30.650 –> 00:27:33.705
– be okay first. Mhmm. And from there on…

774
00:27:33.705 –> 00:27:35.865
– Let’s say it’s a couple that are choosing

775
00:27:35.865 –> 00:27:38.125
– to stay together or if it’s a couple

776
00:27:38.424 –> 00:27:40.664
– that are choosing to be separate, but they’re

777
00:27:40.664 –> 00:27:41.565
– still civil,

778
00:27:42.424 –> 00:27:44.940
– we wanna make sure that that the the

779
00:27:45.019 –> 00:27:47.579
– telling of the story is balanced. Mhmm. Right?

780
00:27:47.579 –> 00:27:50.480
– Like, you need to empower the the betrayed

781
00:27:50.539 –> 00:27:52.539
– spouse in the way the story is being

782
00:27:52.539 –> 00:27:53.519
– told. Right?

783
00:27:53.980 –> 00:27:57.039
– Let’s say, for instance, the family is split.

784
00:27:57.500 –> 00:27:58.240
– They’re like,

785
00:27:58.945 –> 00:28:00.085
– no. Right?

786
00:28:00.465 –> 00:28:02.805
– That makes it a lot more complicated

787
00:28:03.505 –> 00:28:05.825
– because it also depends on what the relationship

788
00:28:05.825 –> 00:28:07.365
– is like with the parents.

789
00:28:07.825 –> 00:28:09.205
– More often than not,

790
00:28:09.664 –> 00:28:11.285
– what happens at that point,

791
00:28:11.750 –> 00:28:13.350
– if the if the wife has to be

792
00:28:13.350 –> 00:28:14.490
– betrayed and she split,

793
00:28:14.950 –> 00:28:17.190
– it’s her story to tell. She can say

794
00:28:17.190 –> 00:28:19.529
– whatever she wants. It’s her story to tell.

795
00:28:19.670 –> 00:28:20.890
– She is no longer,

796
00:28:22.390 –> 00:28:24.170
– I mean, let me say this.

797
00:28:24.615 –> 00:28:27.434
– As human beings, we always wanna be kind

798
00:28:27.494 –> 00:28:29.494
– to our fellow human beings. We always wanna

799
00:28:29.494 –> 00:28:31.914
– operate in our values and our virtues.

800
00:28:32.934 –> 00:28:34.714
– But when there’s been abuse

801
00:28:35.734 –> 00:28:38.295
– of of, like, emotional abuse or whatever and

802
00:28:38.295 –> 00:28:39.434
– there’s a split

803
00:28:40.109 –> 00:28:41.809
– and the wife doesn’t feel…

804
00:28:42.109 –> 00:28:44.190
– Now the ex wife doesn’t feel or ex

805
00:28:44.190 –> 00:28:45.410
– husband doesn’t feel

806
00:28:46.109 –> 00:28:46.609
– aligned,

807
00:28:47.789 –> 00:28:50.029
– then then that person is in their own

808
00:28:50.029 –> 00:28:52.529
– bubble. Sure. They’re in their own ecosystem.

809
00:28:53.224 –> 00:28:55.065
– And what they say and don’t say is

810
00:28:55.065 –> 00:28:57.464
– for them to choose. We just hope that

811
00:28:57.464 –> 00:28:58.205
– they’re choosing

812
00:28:58.664 –> 00:29:01.065
– to do it kindly. Yeah. Sure. Right? So

813
00:29:01.065 –> 00:29:04.025
– it’s different depending on on each dynamic. There’s,

814
00:29:04.025 –> 00:29:06.825
– like, split and don’t like each other, split

815
00:29:06.825 –> 00:29:08.125
– and trying to operate

816
00:29:08.579 –> 00:29:11.220
– or staying together. Sure. I can see why

817
00:29:11.220 –> 00:29:12.900
– this topic… Oh my gosh. You could probably

818
00:29:12.900 –> 00:29:14.500
– talk about this for, like, five hours getting

819
00:29:14.500 –> 00:29:15.559
– the the dynamic.

820
00:29:15.859 –> 00:29:17.619
– So in the remaining time together, I kinda

821
00:29:17.619 –> 00:29:19.539
– want you to… I don’t know if you

822
00:29:19.539 –> 00:29:21.220
– you, you know, you’re fresh off with this.

823
00:29:21.220 –> 00:29:22.740
– So I’m not sure if you remember kinda

824
00:29:22.740 –> 00:29:24.735
– what audience at the at the conference kinda

825
00:29:24.735 –> 00:29:26.975
– resonated with or what the practitioners came up

826
00:29:26.975 –> 00:29:28.335
– or the questions you have. But, yeah, with

827
00:29:28.335 –> 00:29:30.575
– the remaining time together, give give us kind

828
00:29:30.575 –> 00:29:32.255
– of like a highlight reel of, you know…

829
00:29:32.255 –> 00:29:33.615
– I mean, you know how it is with

830
00:29:33.615 –> 00:29:35.934
– podcast. Everybody wants everyone’s the answers. Give me

831
00:29:35.934 –> 00:29:37.619
– the give me the stuff. So in in

832
00:29:37.619 –> 00:29:39.220
– the remaining time together, if you just wanted

833
00:29:39.220 –> 00:29:40.980
– to give, like, a a highlight reel of

834
00:29:40.980 –> 00:29:42.820
– some of the big things that you would

835
00:29:42.820 –> 00:29:43.320
– have

836
00:29:43.700 –> 00:29:46.660
– just parents, families consider within this dynamic, what

837
00:29:46.660 –> 00:29:48.180
– are what are some of your favorite things

838
00:29:48.180 –> 00:29:49.940
– to talk about that we haven’t spoke about

839
00:29:49.940 –> 00:29:52.934
– yet? Yeah. Yeah. So I would say that

840
00:29:52.934 –> 00:29:55.335
– when we think about the moving forward and

841
00:29:55.335 –> 00:29:57.174
– where the hope is, I always say this

842
00:29:57.174 –> 00:30:00.055
– in every talk is that as a adult

843
00:30:00.055 –> 00:30:00.555
– child

844
00:30:01.015 –> 00:30:04.375
– or just just a a child, right, we

845
00:30:04.375 –> 00:30:06.075
– all have the desire

846
00:30:07.390 –> 00:30:09.569
– to have relationship with our parents

847
00:30:10.349 –> 00:30:13.730
– if the parents are accountable and accessible, emotionally

848
00:30:13.789 –> 00:30:15.009
– accountable and accessible.

849
00:30:15.630 –> 00:30:17.630
– And so when we when we look at

850
00:30:17.630 –> 00:30:19.069
– the research on,

851
00:30:19.549 –> 00:30:21.569
– adoptive kids and foster kids,

852
00:30:21.924 –> 00:30:23.924
– no matter how much they’ve gone through, they’re

853
00:30:23.924 –> 00:30:26.805
– still drawn to the biological parent because that

854
00:30:26.805 –> 00:30:28.964
– is their parent. No matter what the parent

855
00:30:28.964 –> 00:30:29.464
– does,

856
00:30:29.765 –> 00:30:31.545
– we are driven to want

857
00:30:32.484 –> 00:30:33.464
– to have relationship

858
00:30:34.085 –> 00:30:35.065
– without… With

859
00:30:35.509 –> 00:30:36.169
– the parents.

860
00:30:36.950 –> 00:30:37.849
– And often,

861
00:30:39.029 –> 00:30:40.789
– what happens is I I always tell my

862
00:30:40.789 –> 00:30:43.029
– clients this. I tell them I tell them

863
00:30:43.029 –> 00:30:45.029
– this in couples therapy, and I tell my

864
00:30:45.029 –> 00:30:45.929
– parents this,

865
00:30:46.309 –> 00:30:46.809
– that

866
00:30:47.775 –> 00:30:49.474
– everything happens in a process.

867
00:30:49.775 –> 00:30:52.015
– Just because you’re not able to tell your

868
00:30:52.015 –> 00:30:53.154
– story right now

869
00:30:53.455 –> 00:30:55.234
– doesn’t mean you won’t ever

870
00:30:55.855 –> 00:30:57.394
– be able to tell your story.

871
00:30:57.695 –> 00:30:59.855
– And and the way the brain works is

872
00:30:59.855 –> 00:31:00.355
– is

873
00:31:00.750 –> 00:31:02.589
– if I’m on guard, like, I don’t know

874
00:31:02.589 –> 00:31:04.509
– if people can see the the video, but,

875
00:31:04.509 –> 00:31:06.509
– like, I’ve got my fist up. And if

876
00:31:06.509 –> 00:31:08.369
– I am defensive and angry,

877
00:31:08.829 –> 00:31:10.369
– I just need to be disarmed

878
00:31:11.230 –> 00:31:12.450
– with full accountability.

879
00:31:13.150 –> 00:31:15.744
– Like, I I was coaching a a parent

880
00:31:15.804 –> 00:31:16.865
– two hours ago

881
00:31:17.325 –> 00:31:19.424
– just just saying, okay.

882
00:31:20.045 –> 00:31:22.045
– She discovered something in the middle of the

883
00:31:22.045 –> 00:31:25.404
– night, and she ran to her son’s bedroom,

884
00:31:25.404 –> 00:31:27.744
– and she knocked on the door for help.

885
00:31:27.910 –> 00:31:30.869
– And she was totally triggered, a thinking brain

886
00:31:30.869 –> 00:31:33.049
– offline, reptilian brain on fire,

887
00:31:33.509 –> 00:31:35.670
– total response. And and I said, you’re gonna

888
00:31:35.670 –> 00:31:37.430
– have to take accountability for that. And she

889
00:31:37.430 –> 00:31:39.130
– said, but I didn’t mean to. I said,

890
00:31:39.269 –> 00:31:40.890
– the adult child doesn’t care.

891
00:31:41.275 –> 00:31:42.095
– I said…

892
00:31:42.634 –> 00:31:44.795
– And I always coach my clients this. When

893
00:31:44.795 –> 00:31:46.954
– you say I did that, I let all

894
00:31:46.954 –> 00:31:49.674
– my traumas belong to you and I take

895
00:31:49.674 –> 00:31:50.974
– ownership for that.

896
00:31:51.434 –> 00:31:55.509
– What happens is our brains naturally release and

897
00:31:55.509 –> 00:31:58.789
– become curious. Mhmm. So once they know that

898
00:31:58.789 –> 00:32:00.569
– they’re not walking into defensiveness

899
00:32:01.029 –> 00:32:03.849
– and are walking into a parent that’s emotionally

900
00:32:03.990 –> 00:32:04.490
– accessible,

901
00:32:05.269 –> 00:32:07.269
– they becomes this ebb and the flow of

902
00:32:07.269 –> 00:32:10.250
– a conversation where they become curious to know,

903
00:32:10.595 –> 00:32:13.875
– okay. Tell me what is this reptilian response

904
00:32:13.875 –> 00:32:15.875
– you’re talking about, mom. That doesn’t make sense

905
00:32:15.875 –> 00:32:18.035
– to me. So it’s not that it’s gonna

906
00:32:18.035 –> 00:32:20.195
– happen in the moment. It’s gonna happen in

907
00:32:20.195 –> 00:32:22.515
– a process when the brain is ready to

908
00:32:22.515 –> 00:32:23.255
– to listen.

909
00:32:23.869 –> 00:32:26.029
– So there’s always hope. It happens in a

910
00:32:26.029 –> 00:32:26.529
– process.

911
00:32:27.150 –> 00:32:28.769
– Children always wanna gravitate

912
00:32:29.150 –> 00:32:30.690
– to parents who are accountable.

913
00:32:32.190 –> 00:32:33.950
– And then what’s the other thing that I

914
00:32:33.950 –> 00:32:35.330
– always wanna tell my…

915
00:32:35.884 –> 00:32:37.485
– That was such a good question because I

916
00:32:37.485 –> 00:32:39.644
– felt like there was, Yeah. The… Well, I

917
00:32:39.644 –> 00:32:41.325
– wanna… While you’re thinking, I just wanted to

918
00:32:41.325 –> 00:32:42.845
– add too because I think what you said

919
00:32:42.845 –> 00:32:44.625
– earlier was so brilliant. Right? Like,

920
00:32:45.005 –> 00:32:46.625
– bite sizes. Hey.

921
00:32:46.924 –> 00:32:48.525
– Have you felt have you felt something going

922
00:32:48.525 –> 00:32:50.680
– on between your mom and I? What’s come

923
00:32:50.680 –> 00:32:51.960
– up for you with that? What have you

924
00:32:51.960 –> 00:32:54.200
– felt? And I love how you said that

925
00:32:54.200 –> 00:32:56.279
– because I think it honors the process. Right?

926
00:32:56.279 –> 00:32:58.359
– I do… I I so agree. It’s not

927
00:32:58.359 –> 00:33:00.960
– this, hey. Sit down, plop. Here’s this heavy

928
00:33:01.320 –> 00:33:03.799
– Right. Load of information. I think to your

929
00:33:03.799 –> 00:33:05.640
– point, oh my gosh. That’s such great advice.

930
00:33:05.640 –> 00:33:06.504
– Just Yeah.

931
00:33:06.944 –> 00:33:08.065
– I I wish I wish you had a

932
00:33:08.065 –> 00:33:09.744
– list of questions so that the parents could,

933
00:33:09.984 –> 00:33:11.744
– because I think we’re not as gifted as

934
00:33:11.744 –> 00:33:12.325
– you are.

935
00:33:12.625 –> 00:33:14.545
– Yeah. That’s so funny. That is so funny

936
00:33:14.545 –> 00:33:15.984
– because that was gonna be my next point

937
00:33:15.984 –> 00:33:18.065
– because I was gonna say that the other

938
00:33:18.065 –> 00:33:19.444
– thing that I really want

939
00:33:20.120 –> 00:33:22.539
– the the the parent to take

940
00:33:22.920 –> 00:33:24.600
– on is, like, they have to put on

941
00:33:24.600 –> 00:33:26.460
– the attitude of anthropologist,

942
00:33:26.920 –> 00:33:27.820
– like discoverer.

943
00:33:28.600 –> 00:33:31.559
– Like, your child child or adult child has

944
00:33:31.559 –> 00:33:33.674
– made a meaning of themselves and the world

945
00:33:33.674 –> 00:33:35.674
– and the world around them and how they

946
00:33:35.674 –> 00:33:36.174
– navigate.

947
00:33:36.714 –> 00:33:39.115
– And so what you’re trying to do is

948
00:33:39.115 –> 00:33:42.255
– how is my child trying to navigate

949
00:33:42.634 –> 00:33:44.794
– the story, and this is how they navigate

950
00:33:44.794 –> 00:33:45.294
– it.

951
00:33:45.595 –> 00:33:46.654
– If I say something,

952
00:33:46.954 –> 00:33:48.494
– if I agree with mom,

953
00:33:49.109 –> 00:33:51.690
– I lose dad. If I agree with

954
00:33:52.230 –> 00:33:54.869
– dad, then mom’s gonna get angry. So better

955
00:33:54.869 –> 00:33:57.670
– not say anything. Yeah. Right? I do have

956
00:33:57.670 –> 00:33:58.650
– a list of questions.

957
00:33:59.029 –> 00:34:02.309
– And people can email me at katie@daringventures.com,

958
00:34:02.309 –> 00:34:04.305
– and I’ll just send them that free resource

959
00:34:04.785 –> 00:34:06.625
– of how to speak to your kids, how

960
00:34:06.625 –> 00:34:08.704
– to ask the questions, what are you looking

961
00:34:08.704 –> 00:34:11.664
– for before you even think about disclosing. You

962
00:34:11.664 –> 00:34:13.525
– just wanna know how are they making

963
00:34:14.144 –> 00:34:14.644
– meaning.

964
00:34:15.105 –> 00:34:17.184
– Even before you think about doing this, she

965
00:34:17.184 –> 00:34:18.704
– has a resource where you can wrap your

966
00:34:18.704 –> 00:34:19.525
– head around

967
00:34:20.309 –> 00:34:22.230
– the experience of an adult child. Because I

968
00:34:22.230 –> 00:34:24.789
– do think, you know, if we think about

969
00:34:24.789 –> 00:34:27.110
– disclosure between a husband and wife, how are

970
00:34:27.110 –> 00:34:28.789
– we doing this? We’re talking about it in

971
00:34:28.789 –> 00:34:30.710
– couples therapy. We’re talking about… This is before

972
00:34:30.710 –> 00:34:33.430
– disclosure. Right? I have my therapist. I usually

973
00:34:33.430 –> 00:34:35.110
– am buying some sort of a worksheet or

974
00:34:35.110 –> 00:34:36.764
– a book. I’m going through this process. Right?

975
00:34:36.764 –> 00:34:38.924
– And then we disclose. And I do agree

976
00:34:38.924 –> 00:34:40.844
– with you. I think Yeah. This is not

977
00:34:40.844 –> 00:34:42.844
– something that you just you just sit them

978
00:34:42.844 –> 00:34:44.684
– down and plop on them. I do think

979
00:34:44.684 –> 00:34:46.364
– I do think thinking about this ahead of

980
00:34:46.364 –> 00:34:48.844
– time through their perspective. And you said that

981
00:34:48.844 –> 00:34:50.444
– at the very beginning of the episode, which

982
00:34:50.444 –> 00:34:52.260
– I thought was great. Right? Like, just… Let’s

983
00:34:52.260 –> 00:34:54.579
– let’s all try to just imagine what this

984
00:34:54.579 –> 00:34:55.239
– is like

985
00:34:55.780 –> 00:34:58.340
– through an adult child watching this happen. I

986
00:34:58.340 –> 00:35:00.179
– think that’s brilliant. I could just end on

987
00:35:00.179 –> 00:35:01.940
– the on the note with with this is

988
00:35:01.940 –> 00:35:02.440
– that

989
00:35:03.219 –> 00:35:03.719
– the

990
00:35:04.194 –> 00:35:05.974
– experience of disclosure

991
00:35:06.275 –> 00:35:07.174
– to a partner

992
00:35:08.114 –> 00:35:10.275
– is… It’s a double edged sword because one,

993
00:35:10.275 –> 00:35:11.174
– it’s extremely

994
00:35:11.635 –> 00:35:14.835
– validating and freeing and it’s… There’s so much

995
00:35:14.835 –> 00:35:17.635
– healing that happens when your your story is

996
00:35:17.635 –> 00:35:18.135
– restored.

997
00:35:19.199 –> 00:35:21.199
– And then, of course, it… It’s it’s earth

998
00:35:21.199 –> 00:35:24.019
– shattering. So there’s definitely a double edged sword.

999
00:35:24.480 –> 00:35:24.980
– But

1000
00:35:25.280 –> 00:35:26.900
– I often find that

1001
00:35:27.920 –> 00:35:29.139
– my couples think

1002
00:35:29.440 –> 00:35:31.679
– that because it was so helpful in their

1003
00:35:31.679 –> 00:35:34.635
– healing journey when their their families… Like, their

1004
00:35:34.795 –> 00:35:35.775
– story is restored,

1005
00:35:36.315 –> 00:35:38.735
– that that is what the adult child needs.

1006
00:35:39.114 –> 00:35:40.414
– And it’s really not.

1007
00:35:40.875 –> 00:35:44.175
– Right? Because we’re we’re not thinking about…

1008
00:35:45.114 –> 00:35:47.675
– We’re thinking about the details, but we really

1009
00:35:47.675 –> 00:35:50.119
– are thinking more about ourselves. Where was I

1010
00:35:50.119 –> 00:35:51.880
– and why didn’t you pick me? And, like,

1011
00:35:51.880 –> 00:35:54.059
– often, like, a comment, like,

1012
00:35:54.840 –> 00:35:56.760
– oh, that makes sense. My mom would always

1013
00:35:56.760 –> 00:35:59.180
– cry at at my my baseball games.

1014
00:35:59.719 –> 00:36:02.760
– Like, oh, okay. That’s why dad was never

1015
00:36:02.760 –> 00:36:05.035
– there on Sundays. That’s why dad went cycling

1016
00:36:05.035 –> 00:36:06.335
– and didn’t lose any weight.

1017
00:36:06.715 –> 00:36:08.635
– Right? It was like things like that.

1018
00:36:09.114 –> 00:36:11.434
– And so it’s it’s not the same. Right?

1019
00:36:11.434 –> 00:36:13.535
– Some kids wanna know and some kids don’t,

1020
00:36:13.755 –> 00:36:16.235
– but it doesn’t have the same… It has

1021
00:36:16.235 –> 00:36:17.375
– some validation

1022
00:36:18.200 –> 00:36:20.680
– and also wanna wanna caution. And this is

1023
00:36:20.680 –> 00:36:22.680
– a… It’s it’s a realistic caution, but it’s

1024
00:36:22.680 –> 00:36:25.099
– not a happy caution is that, unfortunately,

1025
00:36:25.559 –> 00:36:27.720
– partners have the hope that if we disclose

1026
00:36:27.720 –> 00:36:29.660
– to our kids, then then I

1027
00:36:30.119 –> 00:36:31.019
– gain credibility.

1028
00:36:31.824 –> 00:36:34.644
– And often the adult kids are still seeking

1029
00:36:35.025 –> 00:36:35.525
– accountability

1030
00:36:36.065 –> 00:36:39.184
– from the betrayed spouse Mhmm. To say, yes.

1031
00:36:39.184 –> 00:36:41.344
– You you were anxious, and, yes, you were

1032
00:36:41.344 –> 00:36:41.844
– hypervigilant,

1033
00:36:42.144 –> 00:36:44.965
– and we did absorb that. Mhmm. And so

1034
00:36:45.210 –> 00:36:46.889
– I think just be aware that the adult

1035
00:36:46.889 –> 00:36:49.150
– kid is gonna have different needs and expectations

1036
00:36:50.089 –> 00:36:51.469
– even when there is a disclosure

1037
00:36:52.089 –> 00:36:54.170
– delivered. Yeah. Yeah. I I I love that.

1038
00:36:54.170 –> 00:36:56.010
– Thank you so much. And before… I’m gonna

1039
00:36:56.010 –> 00:36:56.989
– have you retell

1040
00:36:57.289 –> 00:36:59.085
– them your email just for the listeners who

1041
00:36:59.085 –> 00:37:00.764
– want that. But before you do that, for

1042
00:37:00.764 –> 00:37:02.224
– those listening who have

1043
00:37:02.684 –> 00:37:03.664
– teenage children

1044
00:37:03.965 –> 00:37:05.644
– or younger that they’re trying to… Do you

1045
00:37:05.644 –> 00:37:07.005
– have a resource or do you wanna point

1046
00:37:07.005 –> 00:37:09.105
– them in a direction where they can? Because,

1047
00:37:09.565 –> 00:37:11.664
– that is a whole different type of disclosure

1048
00:37:11.724 –> 00:37:14.760
– for younger children. You know, I think if

1049
00:37:14.760 –> 00:37:16.619
– they go on to the AbsaTS website,

1050
00:37:17.559 –> 00:37:18.860
– there’s two people.

1051
00:37:19.320 –> 00:37:21.579
– The one is… I think her name’s

1052
00:37:21.960 –> 00:37:22.460
– Elia

1053
00:37:22.840 –> 00:37:25.719
– Markham. Markham. Yes. Yes. Yes. B s… And

1054
00:37:25.719 –> 00:37:28.335
– the… I think her name’s Jessica Edens. Yes.

1055
00:37:28.335 –> 00:37:29.695
– It is. Both of them. They did a

1056
00:37:29.695 –> 00:37:32.094
– talk at Absets about this. I think… I

1057
00:37:32.094 –> 00:37:33.215
– can’t remember I can’t remember if you were

1058
00:37:33.215 –> 00:37:34.414
– in the room or not. But Wasn’t that

1059
00:37:34.414 –> 00:37:37.155
– Absa? They… Yeah. They they spoke on disclosing

1060
00:37:37.375 –> 00:37:40.094
– this to, young children. And, yes, they both…

1061
00:37:40.094 –> 00:37:42.094
– They kinda dedicate their careers to that. So…

1062
00:37:42.094 –> 00:37:44.519
– Yes. Mhmm. Yeah. And then, also, if they

1063
00:37:44.519 –> 00:37:46.519
– do wanna email me, I have a watered

1064
00:37:46.519 –> 00:37:48.519
– down version, but I can promise you it’s

1065
00:37:48.519 –> 00:37:51.160
– not even gonna scrape the top for kids.

1066
00:37:51.160 –> 00:37:52.760
– Yeah. Sure. Sure. But… Yeah. Well… And one

1067
00:37:52.760 –> 00:37:54.119
– more time with your email for those who

1068
00:37:54.119 –> 00:37:55.880
– want the list of questions for their elder…

1069
00:37:55.880 –> 00:38:02.355
– Adult children. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s carley@daringventures.com.

1070
00:38:02.355 –> 00:38:05.335
– Yeah. Carley carley at, daring ventures dot com.

1071
00:38:05.394 –> 00:38:07.074
– This was so wonderful. Thank you for this.

1072
00:38:07.074 –> 00:38:08.835
– Such a a topic. You know, it’s it’s

1073
00:38:08.835 –> 00:38:10.355
– so funny with these… I mean, I think

1074
00:38:10.355 –> 00:38:12.514
– I think we assume because they’re adults and

1075
00:38:12.514 –> 00:38:13.574
– they’re out of the home

1076
00:38:14.090 –> 00:38:16.750
– that that part of the disclosure is easier,

1077
00:38:16.809 –> 00:38:19.449
– that the impact is is less because they’re…

1078
00:38:19.449 –> 00:38:21.469
– The the kids are not. And I think

1079
00:38:21.929 –> 00:38:23.949
– thinking that way is really naive because

1080
00:38:24.409 –> 00:38:26.329
– you’re their parents and to your… I love

1081
00:38:26.329 –> 00:38:28.590
– the comment you said we’re all adult children.

1082
00:38:29.744 –> 00:38:31.505
– Every adult listening to this podcast is an

1083
00:38:31.505 –> 00:38:32.644
– adult child of somebody.

1084
00:38:32.944 –> 00:38:34.724
– Yeah. To think that we’re not having

1085
00:38:35.025 –> 00:38:36.704
– an experience of some kind and that it

1086
00:38:36.704 –> 00:38:38.625
– could be somewhat traumatic or very traumatic. And

1087
00:38:38.625 –> 00:38:39.824
– the other thing I wanna note, just last

1088
00:38:39.824 –> 00:38:41.505
– thing for all the listeners, she did say

1089
00:38:41.505 –> 00:38:43.989
– at the beginning, remember, this this, you know,

1090
00:38:43.989 –> 00:38:45.450
– this is this is a single,

1091
00:38:45.829 –> 00:38:48.710
– infidelity and affair. This could be an addiction

1092
00:38:48.710 –> 00:38:51.110
– where there’s a bunch of behaviors here. It

1093
00:38:51.110 –> 00:38:52.869
– matters and doesn’t matter at the same time.

1094
00:38:52.869 –> 00:38:53.849
– Both are

1095
00:38:54.230 –> 00:38:56.550
– both are significant, and it would be naive

1096
00:38:56.550 –> 00:38:58.710
– to think that maybe this isn’t affecting your

1097
00:38:58.710 –> 00:39:00.730
– child in in some some way or… And

1098
00:39:00.730 –> 00:39:03.181
– and and, again, even if you’re not going

1099
00:39:03.181 –> 00:39:05.632
– to disclose or it’s not appropriate, because, again,

1100
00:39:05.632 –> 00:39:08.083
– there’s families we’re disclosing may not be appropriate.

1101
00:39:08.083 –> 00:39:10.534
– I do still think looking into this dynamic

1102
00:39:10.534 –> 00:39:12.800
– is healthy for you whether you’re going to

1103
00:39:12.800 –> 00:39:15.280
– disclose now or maybe a years from now,

1104
00:39:15.440 –> 00:39:16.800
– just to to wrap your head around. So

1105
00:39:16.800 –> 00:39:18.480
– thank you so much for for sharing this.

1106
00:39:18.480 –> 00:39:20.260
– Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me on.

1107
00:39:21.440 –> 00:39:23.679
– Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

1108
00:39:23.679 –> 00:39:25.425
– are a high achiever of the sex addiction

1109
00:39:25.425 –> 00:39:27.105
– and you’re looking for a recovery group full

1110
00:39:27.105 –> 00:39:30.224
– of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

1111
00:39:30.224 –> 00:39:33.025
– We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1112
00:39:33.025 –> 00:39:34.325
– using four day retreats,

1113
00:39:34.704 –> 00:39:37.505
– weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

1114
00:39:37.505 –> 00:39:39.750
– If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

1115
00:39:39.750 –> 00:39:41.590
– save your marriage, go to our website and

1116
00:39:41.590 –> 00:39:42.570
– fill out an application.

1117
00:39:42.869 –> 00:39:45.349
– If you enjoyed this episode, please pass it

1118
00:39:45.349 –> 00:39:46.949
– along to a friend in recovery who would

1119
00:39:46.949 –> 00:39:48.949
– benefit from listening. It is my mission to

1120
00:39:48.949 –> 00:39:50.630
– get this information out to as many high

1121
00:39:50.630 –> 00:39:52.949
– achievers as possible, and I can’t do it

1122
00:39:52.949 –> 00:39:53.929
– without your help.