1
00:00:01.040 –> 00:00:02.639
– And we were all excited and then my

2
00:00:02.639 –> 00:00:05.839
– dad’s cell phone rings and he says, Oh

3
00:00:05.839 –> 00:00:07.359
– shit. And I just knew, I could just

4
00:00:07.359 –> 00:00:08.639
– hear it in his voice. He hung up

5
00:00:08.639 –> 00:00:10.639
– the phone and he said, Roland, when we

6
00:00:10.639 –> 00:00:12.960
– get home you’re gonna be arrested. And I

7
00:00:12.960 –> 00:00:15.119
– was 14 years old and at the time

8
00:00:15.119 –> 00:00:16.214
– I I felt like I was a grown

9
00:00:16.214 –> 00:00:17.414
– ass man. Right? I don’t know if you

10
00:00:17.414 –> 00:00:19.094
– guys remember when you were 14, but we

11
00:00:19.094 –> 00:00:21.015
– think we’re adults. I see a 14 year

12
00:00:21.015 –> 00:00:22.295
– old boy now and I just see a

13
00:00:22.295 –> 00:00:23.975
– child and so it breaks my heart to

14
00:00:23.975 –> 00:00:25.974
– think back to that. And they came around

15
00:00:25.974 –> 00:00:27.494
– 9PM. My mom asked if they could come

16
00:00:27.494 –> 00:00:29.309
– late to try not to have the neighbor

17
00:00:29.309 –> 00:00:30.289
– see. And unfortunately,

18
00:00:30.589 –> 00:00:32.350
– because of the type of the crime, the

19
00:00:32.350 –> 00:00:34.590
– officer apologized. He said, I unfortunately, I I

20
00:00:34.590 –> 00:00:35.789
– have to handcuff you and I have to

21
00:00:35.789 –> 00:00:37.170
– take you in the back of the car.

22
00:00:40.189 –> 00:00:42.289
– You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

23
00:00:42.350 –> 00:00:45.635
– for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

24
00:00:45.935 –> 00:00:48.495
– This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

25
00:00:48.495 –> 00:00:51.774
– recovery principles specifically to the mindset of the

26
00:00:51.774 –> 00:00:54.815
– high achiever. I’m your host, Roland Cochran, founder

27
00:00:54.815 –> 00:00:56.975
– of The Successful Addict, a recovery group for

28
00:00:56.975 –> 00:00:59.250
– high achieving men struggling with sex and porn

29
00:00:59.250 –> 00:01:01.810
– addiction. For more information about joining our group

30
00:01:01.810 –> 00:01:05.430
– or attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

31
00:01:05.489 –> 00:01:07.590
– And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

32
00:01:09.090 –> 00:01:11.409
– So for the first time ever, I’m actually

33
00:01:11.409 –> 00:01:13.569
– going to tell you guys my story, my

34
00:01:13.569 –> 00:01:15.644
– addiction story. I’m gonna start all the way

35
00:01:15.644 –> 00:01:17.484
– from the front and finish all the way

36
00:01:17.484 –> 00:01:19.165
– at the back. What I mean by starting

37
00:01:19.165 –> 00:01:21.104
– with the front is just a little synopsis

38
00:01:21.165 –> 00:01:22.704
– of my childhood,

39
00:01:23.165 –> 00:01:23.905
– my personality,

40
00:01:24.444 –> 00:01:26.045
– and some of the events that happened. I

41
00:01:26.045 –> 00:01:27.665
– think you can’t really understand

42
00:01:28.140 –> 00:01:30.459
– somebody with a process addiction or a compulsive

43
00:01:30.459 –> 00:01:30.959
– behavior

44
00:01:31.340 –> 00:01:33.439
– without first taking the time to understand

45
00:01:34.299 –> 00:01:36.859
– where this all came from. So a quick

46
00:01:36.859 –> 00:01:39.420
– synopsis kind of diving into my life before

47
00:01:39.420 –> 00:01:41.415
– we get into my sexual behavior. You know,

48
00:01:41.415 –> 00:01:43.575
– I was a middle child. My brother was

49
00:01:43.575 –> 00:01:46.534
– seven years older than me. And when I

50
00:01:46.534 –> 00:01:48.534
– was born, you know, I, my parents had

51
00:01:48.534 –> 00:01:49.895
– a lot of hard, had a really hard

52
00:01:49.895 –> 00:01:52.534
– time getting pregnant. And so when they had

53
00:01:52.534 –> 00:01:54.075
– me finally seven years

54
00:01:54.509 –> 00:01:56.049
– after trying again

55
00:01:56.349 –> 00:01:58.829
– to have another child, they were thrilled, obviously.

56
00:01:58.829 –> 00:02:00.269
– And my and my family is I come

57
00:02:00.269 –> 00:02:02.349
– from a Mormon family. I no longer have

58
00:02:02.349 –> 00:02:04.429
– a religious affiliation anymore, but I was raised

59
00:02:04.429 –> 00:02:06.269
– in a Mormon family. And part of Mormon

60
00:02:06.269 –> 00:02:10.050
– culture is families. They’re very family centered religion.

61
00:02:10.314 –> 00:02:11.834
– And so, as you can imagine, I was

62
00:02:11.834 –> 00:02:13.594
– very cherished when I was when I was

63
00:02:13.594 –> 00:02:15.275
– born, which was great. As you guys are

64
00:02:15.275 –> 00:02:17.194
– gonna learn when you kind of learn through

65
00:02:17.194 –> 00:02:19.914
– this podcast more about me, getting attention and

66
00:02:19.914 –> 00:02:22.555
– being cherished and and seen is very important

67
00:02:22.555 –> 00:02:25.459
– to me. Well, my sister then came. So

68
00:02:25.459 –> 00:02:27.639
– my parents basically tried to have kids

69
00:02:27.939 –> 00:02:30.500
– pretty much nonstop for those fifteen years, and

70
00:02:30.500 –> 00:02:32.599
– they were only able to have three children.

71
00:02:32.900 –> 00:02:35.060
– And my sister was the first girl, and

72
00:02:35.060 –> 00:02:38.405
– it totally changed the dynamic. Being a girl,

73
00:02:38.405 –> 00:02:40.245
– you know, we know this through research, little

74
00:02:40.245 –> 00:02:42.185
– girls get more attention

75
00:02:42.564 –> 00:02:45.284
– than than boys do. And, of course, she

76
00:02:45.284 –> 00:02:46.805
– was the first girl and they really wanted

77
00:02:46.805 –> 00:02:48.885
– a girl. And so the whole dynamic kind

78
00:02:48.885 –> 00:02:50.564
– of changed. Right? The attention was shifted away

79
00:02:50.564 –> 00:02:52.680
– from me as it usually is, especially for

80
00:02:52.680 –> 00:02:54.360
– middle children. But one of the bigger ones

81
00:02:54.360 –> 00:02:56.120
– too, I think, was the dynamic shift with

82
00:02:56.120 –> 00:02:58.219
– my brother. You know, he he really was

83
00:02:58.520 –> 00:03:01.800
– my older brother, protector figure. And then he

84
00:03:01.800 –> 00:03:04.280
– really shifted to kind of becoming my sister’s

85
00:03:04.280 –> 00:03:06.834
– protector. And as I got angry and frustrated

86
00:03:06.834 –> 00:03:09.394
– about that attention leaving me, our relationship kind

87
00:03:09.394 –> 00:03:11.235
– of changed. He he now protected her and

88
00:03:11.235 –> 00:03:13.314
– not me. And, you know, that was years

89
00:03:13.314 –> 00:03:14.514
– and years ago, so I can’t tell you

90
00:03:14.514 –> 00:03:15.715
– how that affected me. But as you can

91
00:03:15.715 –> 00:03:17.955
– imagine, probably didn’t affect me in in a

92
00:03:17.955 –> 00:03:19.875
– positive way. So a little bit about my

93
00:03:19.875 –> 00:03:20.375
– personality.

94
00:03:20.960 –> 00:03:22.240
– A lot of this, like, you know, when

95
00:03:22.240 –> 00:03:23.520
– I’m really little, I’m going off of what

96
00:03:23.520 –> 00:03:24.960
– I heard. And it’s funny as I as

97
00:03:24.960 –> 00:03:26.560
– I talk to my babysitters, and then my

98
00:03:26.560 –> 00:03:28.480
– aunt actually spent a lot of time with

99
00:03:28.480 –> 00:03:31.040
– us, and they always talk about how I

100
00:03:31.040 –> 00:03:32.639
– talked to I guess, I don’t remember this,

101
00:03:32.639 –> 00:03:34.000
– but when I was five, six, seven years

102
00:03:34.000 –> 00:03:34.879
– old, I talked a lot about how I

103
00:03:34.879 –> 00:03:36.294
– was gonna be rich one day, You know,

104
00:03:36.294 –> 00:03:38.534
– all my mansions and cars, and I don’t

105
00:03:38.534 –> 00:03:40.375
– remember talking about any of that. I just

106
00:03:40.375 –> 00:03:42.935
– think I chuckle now because I’ve done very

107
00:03:42.935 –> 00:03:45.574
– well for myself from a business financial standpoint.

108
00:03:45.574 –> 00:03:47.914
– And so I kinda laugh thinking back to,

109
00:03:48.134 –> 00:03:49.974
– you know, how that was somehow on my

110
00:03:49.974 –> 00:03:50.474
– radar

111
00:03:50.800 –> 00:03:52.319
– at a very little age. I’m not sure

112
00:03:52.319 –> 00:03:53.840
– how that happened. Right? It almost makes me

113
00:03:53.840 –> 00:03:55.360
– wonder if if some of that was just

114
00:03:55.360 –> 00:03:57.039
– kind of in my DNA. Right? Just being

115
00:03:57.039 –> 00:03:58.020
– attracted to

116
00:03:58.479 –> 00:04:01.599
– influence, positions of leadership and really making my

117
00:04:01.599 –> 00:04:03.199
– mark. Right? And so I don’t know if

118
00:04:03.199 –> 00:04:04.925
– that, you know, kind of the the capitalistic

119
00:04:04.985 –> 00:04:07.405
– way, I guess, stood for that or something.

120
00:04:07.544 –> 00:04:09.465
– But I was also a very sensitive little

121
00:04:09.465 –> 00:04:11.004
– boy. Loud sounds,

122
00:04:11.465 –> 00:04:12.745
– sirens, you know, I really wanted to be

123
00:04:12.745 –> 00:04:14.824
– a firefighter, but I was so sad. I

124
00:04:14.824 –> 00:04:16.800
– remember because I hated the fire I hated

125
00:04:16.800 –> 00:04:18.720
– the how loud the siren was, how loud

126
00:04:18.720 –> 00:04:19.699
– the horns were.

127
00:04:20.000 –> 00:04:21.680
– And it really bothered me because I was

128
00:04:21.680 –> 00:04:23.680
– I was torn between that. Right? Like, I

129
00:04:23.680 –> 00:04:25.279
– really wanted to be a firefighter, but I

130
00:04:25.279 –> 00:04:27.199
– couldn’t handle the the noise. And then same

131
00:04:27.199 –> 00:04:28.959
– with karate. I remember all my friends got

132
00:04:28.959 –> 00:04:30.845
– into karate. And for those of you who

133
00:04:30.845 –> 00:04:32.685
– haven’t seen karate, you know, they’re they they

134
00:04:32.685 –> 00:04:34.285
– they yell a lot when they do the

135
00:04:34.285 –> 00:04:36.125
– different karate moves. And the screaming, I I

136
00:04:36.125 –> 00:04:38.384
– remember I broke down crying. I was overwhelmed,

137
00:04:38.764 –> 00:04:40.285
– ran over to my mom, and and and

138
00:04:40.285 –> 00:04:41.725
– we never went back. I had to quit

139
00:04:41.725 –> 00:04:43.779
– karate. And I hated that too because I

140
00:04:43.779 –> 00:04:45.539
– wanna do karate. All my friends were in

141
00:04:45.539 –> 00:04:48.419
– karate. And so that sensitivity was there. Another

142
00:04:48.419 –> 00:04:50.019
– example of that too, my dad had his

143
00:04:50.019 –> 00:04:51.620
– first heart attack when he when I was

144
00:04:51.620 –> 00:04:53.699
– four years old, and I had sympathy pains.

145
00:04:53.699 –> 00:04:55.379
– I I I literally had a heart attack.

146
00:04:55.379 –> 00:04:57.334
– I remember I was crying. I was in

147
00:04:57.334 –> 00:04:59.175
– nonstop pain for four days. He was in

148
00:04:59.175 –> 00:05:01.014
– the hospital for, gosh, I think three weeks

149
00:05:01.014 –> 00:05:02.854
– or something like that. And my heart just

150
00:05:02.854 –> 00:05:04.615
– ached for him when I was four years

151
00:05:04.615 –> 00:05:06.694
– old. So I share all this to say,

152
00:05:06.694 –> 00:05:09.014
– you know, very, very, very sensitive boy. That’ll

153
00:05:09.014 –> 00:05:11.270
– come into play later as I talk about

154
00:05:11.490 –> 00:05:14.370
– my feelings towards that. Another big thing that

155
00:05:14.370 –> 00:05:15.970
– I think is worth mentioning is I wet

156
00:05:15.970 –> 00:05:17.830
– the bed until I was 12 years old.

157
00:05:18.210 –> 00:05:20.310
– And I think that matters because

158
00:05:20.610 –> 00:05:22.449
– it was humiliating and it’s kind of like

159
00:05:22.449 –> 00:05:23.745
– a burden. I think a lot of us

160
00:05:24.225 –> 00:05:26.625
– underestimate the burdens we carry, especially the ones

161
00:05:26.625 –> 00:05:28.704
– that are embarrassing or the ones that we

162
00:05:28.704 –> 00:05:30.865
– feel like could get us cut off from

163
00:05:30.865 –> 00:05:32.944
– the tribe or we would lose our status

164
00:05:32.944 –> 00:05:34.705
– or lose our friends over it. And that

165
00:05:34.705 –> 00:05:36.360
– was, I mean, that was something that just,

166
00:05:36.360 –> 00:05:38.360
– you know, in hindsight, I don’t remember, you

167
00:05:38.360 –> 00:05:39.479
– know, I kind of think back, but, oh

168
00:05:39.479 –> 00:05:41.339
– my gosh, it was I couldn’t go

169
00:05:41.959 –> 00:05:44.459
– to scout camp. I couldn’t go to sleepovers.

170
00:05:44.519 –> 00:05:45.959
– All my friends would always go to sleepovers,

171
00:05:45.959 –> 00:05:47.800
– but I I had to wear diapers. And

172
00:05:47.800 –> 00:05:49.159
– that was just a just a horrible thing.

173
00:05:49.159 –> 00:05:50.919
– I remember, you know, it’s fun it’s funny

174
00:05:50.919 –> 00:05:52.545
– what matters to a kid, but I knew

175
00:05:52.545 –> 00:05:55.105
– that when I was 12, outdoor school was

176
00:05:55.105 –> 00:05:57.504
– gonna be a thing. And every kid thinks

177
00:05:57.504 –> 00:05:58.705
– a lot, or at least for me, I

178
00:05:58.705 –> 00:05:59.985
– I really wanted to go to outdoor school.

179
00:05:59.985 –> 00:06:01.764
– I was really looking forward to that. And

180
00:06:01.985 –> 00:06:03.665
– but my biggest fear was, gosh, I sure

181
00:06:03.665 –> 00:06:05.580
– hope I don’t wet the bet by that

182
00:06:05.580 –> 00:06:08.060
– time. Well, it came around and I’m still

183
00:06:08.060 –> 00:06:10.620
– wetting the bed. So, and I remember every

184
00:06:10.620 –> 00:06:12.540
– night I had to hide my diapers in

185
00:06:12.540 –> 00:06:13.120
– the bottom

186
00:06:13.660 –> 00:06:15.500
– of the sleeping bag. But I was so

187
00:06:15.500 –> 00:06:17.819
– humiliated because my parents had to tell, you

188
00:06:17.819 –> 00:06:19.279
– know, the teachers and the

189
00:06:19.604 –> 00:06:21.604
– volunteers. And I was so humiliated because that

190
00:06:21.604 –> 00:06:22.805
– was that was the first time we really

191
00:06:22.805 –> 00:06:25.444
– told anybody outside of my family. I remember

192
00:06:25.444 –> 00:06:27.125
– I never wanted my parents to to tell

193
00:06:27.125 –> 00:06:29.685
– anyone. We would even make my mom go

194
00:06:29.685 –> 00:06:32.644
– to the store at, like, 10PM, 11PM to

195
00:06:32.644 –> 00:06:34.324
– buy the diapers because I didn’t want her

196
00:06:34.324 –> 00:06:35.779
– to to have them in the cart, shopping

197
00:06:35.779 –> 00:06:37.779
– cart and run into somebody we knew. So

198
00:06:37.779 –> 00:06:39.300
– I share all that to say, you know,

199
00:06:39.300 –> 00:06:41.379
– this this burden. You can imagine what this

200
00:06:41.379 –> 00:06:42.899
– was doing to my self esteem and my

201
00:06:42.899 –> 00:06:44.580
– confidence, right? You know, knowing that I had

202
00:06:44.580 –> 00:06:46.579
– a problem that nobody else had. And then

203
00:06:46.579 –> 00:06:48.180
– just a little bit about the family dynamics.

204
00:06:48.180 –> 00:06:49.560
– We grew up in a poor

205
00:06:49.884 –> 00:06:51.884
– area. We were not, I wouldn’t call us

206
00:06:51.884 –> 00:06:54.764
– poor, poor because we definitely got our needs

207
00:06:54.764 –> 00:06:56.305
– met. But we,

208
00:06:56.764 –> 00:06:58.785
– it really had nothing beyond that.

209
00:06:59.245 –> 00:07:01.245
– I was a little fortunate. My mom didn’t

210
00:07:01.245 –> 00:07:02.939
– have to work, but, you know, my dad

211
00:07:02.939 –> 00:07:05.339
– made, you know, dollars 40,000 a year supporting

212
00:07:05.339 –> 00:07:07.180
– a family of five in a cheap city.

213
00:07:07.180 –> 00:07:08.960
– So we definitely had

214
00:07:09.420 –> 00:07:11.259
– far less than everybody else. And I was

215
00:07:11.259 –> 00:07:13.900
– extremely embarrassed about that. I remember when I

216
00:07:13.900 –> 00:07:15.834
– would hang out with my friends, I would

217
00:07:15.834 –> 00:07:17.274
– make up excuses. I would say, Hey, can

218
00:07:17.274 –> 00:07:19.194
– you can you drop me off? My mom’s

219
00:07:19.194 –> 00:07:20.475
– at the grocery store, so just drop me

220
00:07:20.475 –> 00:07:21.834
– off at the grocery store. I’m gonna meet

221
00:07:21.834 –> 00:07:23.995
– her there, which was not true. And I

222
00:07:23.995 –> 00:07:26.954
– would walk. I’d walk thirty minutes home from

223
00:07:26.954 –> 00:07:29.189
– the grocery store just so that my friends

224
00:07:29.189 –> 00:07:31.430
– couldn’t find out where my family lived because

225
00:07:31.430 –> 00:07:33.269
– we were we had a very we just

226
00:07:33.269 –> 00:07:34.789
– didn’t have a lot. And I didn’t want

227
00:07:34.789 –> 00:07:36.329
– anybody to know because all my friends

228
00:07:36.629 –> 00:07:38.470
– were wealthy. Which is funny. We moved to

229
00:07:38.470 –> 00:07:40.229
– that city back when nothing was there and

230
00:07:40.229 –> 00:07:41.805
– then the wealthy people moved all around us.

231
00:07:41.884 –> 00:07:43.245
– So the intent was actually not to live

232
00:07:43.245 –> 00:07:44.764
– in a wealthy neighborhood. It just kind of

233
00:07:44.764 –> 00:07:46.444
– ended up that way. So a lot of

234
00:07:46.444 –> 00:07:49.264
– shame and embarrassment of being the poor kid.

235
00:07:49.404 –> 00:07:51.324
– And then Mormon being Mormon was hard too.

236
00:07:51.324 –> 00:07:53.324
– I got bullied for being Mormon. You know,

237
00:07:53.324 –> 00:07:55.710
– people often said, hey, your parents wear magic

238
00:07:55.710 –> 00:07:57.629
– underwear and are you allowed to drink Coca

239
00:07:57.629 –> 00:07:58.129
– Cola?

240
00:07:59.069 –> 00:08:00.449
– And I mean, just just constantly

241
00:08:00.990 –> 00:08:03.710
– making fun of my religion, which made me

242
00:08:03.710 –> 00:08:05.310
– hate them, but it also made me hate

243
00:08:05.310 –> 00:08:07.230
– the Mormon church because, you know, it was

244
00:08:07.230 –> 00:08:10.314
– now a source of being bullied. And then

245
00:08:10.375 –> 00:08:12.314
– one thing I forgot to mention, my brother

246
00:08:12.935 –> 00:08:13.754
– was perfect.

247
00:08:14.134 –> 00:08:16.475
– He was perfect Mormon boy. He was valedictorian.

248
00:08:17.175 –> 00:08:19.735
– Everybody in the town knew him. Everybody in

249
00:08:19.735 –> 00:08:21.415
– school knew him. I even got into college.

250
00:08:21.415 –> 00:08:23.274
– I went to a big university and

251
00:08:23.699 –> 00:08:25.879
– teachers even knew my last name

252
00:08:26.259 –> 00:08:27.860
– and asked if I was related to my

253
00:08:27.860 –> 00:08:30.819
– brother. That’s how that’s how phenomenally scholastic he

254
00:08:30.819 –> 00:08:33.379
– was. And so I was constantly being compared

255
00:08:33.379 –> 00:08:36.279
– to his ability to do all the Mormon

256
00:08:36.339 –> 00:08:38.964
– stuff. And also, he’s the president of every

257
00:08:38.964 –> 00:08:39.464
– club

258
00:08:40.004 –> 00:08:41.945
– and full ride scholarships to all these schools.

259
00:08:42.245 –> 00:08:44.084
– And so I’m constantly being compared to him,

260
00:08:44.084 –> 00:08:45.924
– not just by my parents, but by what

261
00:08:45.924 –> 00:08:48.004
– felt like at the time, everyone. So by

262
00:08:48.004 –> 00:08:49.524
– the time I was 12 years old, I

263
00:08:49.524 –> 00:08:50.664
– felt completely alone.

264
00:08:51.019 –> 00:08:52.779
– The people at the church wanted me to

265
00:08:52.779 –> 00:08:54.460
– be different than I was. I had no

266
00:08:54.460 –> 00:08:56.620
– interest in being Mormon. I had no interest

267
00:08:56.620 –> 00:08:58.539
– in living the way my brother lived. I

268
00:08:58.539 –> 00:09:00.059
– did not want to do, you know, my

269
00:09:00.059 –> 00:09:02.220
– brother to my eyes was, you know, he

270
00:09:02.220 –> 00:09:03.500
– never went to prom. He never had a

271
00:09:03.500 –> 00:09:06.159
– girlfriend. He just studied all the time. And

272
00:09:06.434 –> 00:09:07.875
– I just didn’t want to do that. I

273
00:09:07.875 –> 00:09:10.514
– wanted an exciting, fun life. I did not

274
00:09:10.514 –> 00:09:12.355
– want the life my parents had or anyone

275
00:09:12.355 –> 00:09:13.794
– really that I saw at the church. But

276
00:09:13.794 –> 00:09:15.475
– then they were more or less forcing me

277
00:09:15.475 –> 00:09:16.995
– to have that life. So by the time

278
00:09:16.995 –> 00:09:18.835
– I was 12, I hated myself for a

279
00:09:18.835 –> 00:09:20.514
– lot of reasons. Right? Wetting the bed, being

280
00:09:20.514 –> 00:09:23.330
– shy, being sensitive. And I hated everyone

281
00:09:23.870 –> 00:09:26.429
– else, really, my parents included. I always say

282
00:09:26.429 –> 00:09:27.649
– I was basically parentless.

283
00:09:28.029 –> 00:09:30.610
– By right around 11, 12 years old,

284
00:09:30.990 –> 00:09:33.470
– I really just decided to disown my parents.

285
00:09:33.470 –> 00:09:34.910
– And that was kind of the beginning of

286
00:09:34.910 –> 00:09:37.654
– my double life. Right? Hated myself, hated really

287
00:09:37.654 –> 00:09:39.495
– the world at the time. And it’s like,

288
00:09:39.495 –> 00:09:40.774
– okay, fine. I’m going to live one life

289
00:09:40.774 –> 00:09:43.095
– for them and one life for me. But

290
00:09:43.095 –> 00:09:45.254
– it wasn’t just that. I was also going

291
00:09:45.254 –> 00:09:46.075
– to change

292
00:09:46.615 –> 00:09:48.774
– my life. I made a commitment. I’m going

293
00:09:48.774 –> 00:09:51.179
– to become someone that people can’t judge. Right?

294
00:09:51.179 –> 00:09:52.220
– I’m going to get rich. I’m going to

295
00:09:52.220 –> 00:09:53.820
– get buff. I’m going to get, you know,

296
00:09:53.820 –> 00:09:55.100
– all these things. You know, I’m not I’m

297
00:09:55.100 –> 00:09:57.179
– going to I’m going to basically live a

298
00:09:57.179 –> 00:09:59.820
– life where no one can say anything bad

299
00:09:59.820 –> 00:10:01.980
– about me. As you can probably hear from

300
00:10:01.980 –> 00:10:04.154
– the energy of all that, it was very

301
00:10:04.154 –> 00:10:06.795
– destructive. Right? I became less human and I

302
00:10:06.795 –> 00:10:07.615
– became basically

303
00:10:08.075 –> 00:10:10.875
– a machine that wanted to craft this new

304
00:10:10.875 –> 00:10:11.375
– life.

305
00:10:11.835 –> 00:10:13.595
– Meanwhile, I’m also living a double life. Right?

306
00:10:13.595 –> 00:10:15.595
– Because I’m trying to please every my parents

307
00:10:15.595 –> 00:10:17.179
– and and the people at the church and

308
00:10:17.179 –> 00:10:18.779
– everybody. So they would just kind of leave

309
00:10:18.779 –> 00:10:19.440
– me alone.

310
00:10:19.820 –> 00:10:21.740
– So let’s get into the the my sexual

311
00:10:21.740 –> 00:10:22.240
– compulsivity.

312
00:10:22.540 –> 00:10:24.860
– So first thing that happened to me, I

313
00:10:24.860 –> 00:10:26.399
– had what was called an unwanted

314
00:10:26.779 –> 00:10:27.840
– sexual experience.

315
00:10:28.299 –> 00:10:30.480
– And I never knew of this

316
00:10:30.794 –> 00:10:32.815
– until I actually got into recovery.

317
00:10:33.195 –> 00:10:35.115
– You know, I never talked about this sexual

318
00:10:35.115 –> 00:10:37.115
– experience because it was like, oh, well, this

319
00:10:37.115 –> 00:10:39.514
– isn’t rape. This isn’t being molested. And so

320
00:10:39.514 –> 00:10:40.735
– I never considered

321
00:10:41.195 –> 00:10:43.289
– myself to have had a, you know, a

322
00:10:43.289 –> 00:10:46.409
– negative sexual experience because the boy was my

323
00:10:46.409 –> 00:10:48.570
– age or a year older than me. And

324
00:10:48.570 –> 00:10:49.929
– so to me, it was like, oh, okay,

325
00:10:49.929 –> 00:10:52.169
– well, that’s not molesting, right? Molesting would be

326
00:10:52.169 –> 00:10:53.610
– an adult or something like this in my

327
00:10:53.610 –> 00:10:54.590
– head, right? Well,

328
00:10:55.054 –> 00:10:56.894
– they call it an unwanted sexual experience, which

329
00:10:56.894 –> 00:10:59.774
– is basically if you said no and they

330
00:10:59.774 –> 00:11:01.694
– forced you to do it anyways or guilted

331
00:11:01.694 –> 00:11:03.615
– you into doing it anyway or whatever. That’s

332
00:11:03.615 –> 00:11:06.174
– called an unwanted sexual experience. And it’s really

333
00:11:06.174 –> 00:11:08.034
– not necessarily that unlike

334
00:11:08.500 –> 00:11:10.980
– any of the more traumatic sexual experiences. You

335
00:11:10.980 –> 00:11:13.379
– said no and then it was forced upon

336
00:11:13.379 –> 00:11:15.460
– you, which is not okay. And I was

337
00:11:15.460 –> 00:11:17.379
– four years old and the context I’m not

338
00:11:17.379 –> 00:11:19.240
– gonna go into the details, but the context

339
00:11:19.379 –> 00:11:21.059
– really mattered as well. My dad was in

340
00:11:21.059 –> 00:11:22.360
– the hospital at the time

341
00:11:22.804 –> 00:11:24.245
– and just a very traumatic time. It was

342
00:11:24.245 –> 00:11:25.865
– the first time I’ve ever had a sleepover

343
00:11:26.004 –> 00:11:28.184
– as well. And so to have that happen

344
00:11:28.245 –> 00:11:30.644
– was just, you know, four years old, which

345
00:11:30.644 –> 00:11:32.164
– is a lot for that young man, as

346
00:11:32.164 –> 00:11:34.644
– you can imagine, young boy. But here’s the

347
00:11:34.644 –> 00:11:36.584
– saddest part. The saddest part

348
00:11:37.044 –> 00:11:37.784
– was that

349
00:11:38.090 –> 00:11:39.549
– as much as I hated it,

350
00:11:39.929 –> 00:11:40.970
– he made me do I don’t want to

351
00:11:40.970 –> 00:11:42.090
– get into it. It’s hard for me to

352
00:11:42.090 –> 00:11:43.610
– talk about just because it I don’t like

353
00:11:43.610 –> 00:11:46.169
– to talk about what happened. But basically, I

354
00:11:46.169 –> 00:11:47.610
– would end up going back to my own

355
00:11:47.610 –> 00:11:49.529
– neighborhood, and I would end up doing this

356
00:11:49.529 –> 00:11:50.910
– to the other kids in my neighborhood,

357
00:11:51.315 –> 00:11:52.995
– which I have a lot of shame around

358
00:11:52.995 –> 00:11:54.075
– that. You can probably hear it in my

359
00:11:54.075 –> 00:11:55.475
– in my throat, right? My throat is kind

360
00:11:55.475 –> 00:11:57.235
– of closing right now. You know, here I

361
00:11:57.235 –> 00:11:58.934
– am. I I hated the experience,

362
00:11:59.475 –> 00:12:01.575
– but now I’m doing it to other people.

363
00:12:01.955 –> 00:12:03.875
– How does that make sense? You’d think it’d

364
00:12:03.875 –> 00:12:04.615
– be the opposite.

365
00:12:05.070 –> 00:12:06.610
– But, you know, not to get into details,

366
00:12:06.830 –> 00:12:08.750
– young kids, they don’t have the intellectual ability

367
00:12:08.750 –> 00:12:10.830
– to communicate and think yet, so they act

368
00:12:10.830 –> 00:12:12.910
– things out through play. So as I’m trying

369
00:12:12.910 –> 00:12:15.950
– to process that information, kids will play doctor

370
00:12:15.950 –> 00:12:18.029
– or you show me mine, I’ll show yours,

371
00:12:18.029 –> 00:12:19.784
– things like this. And that’s how they process

372
00:12:19.865 –> 00:12:22.904
– their brain’s thoughts through whatever it is. And

373
00:12:22.904 –> 00:12:24.504
– I had a lot of shame around this

374
00:12:24.504 –> 00:12:26.184
– now, and and I wonder you know, I

375
00:12:26.184 –> 00:12:28.024
– don’t remember back then because I was, you

376
00:12:28.024 –> 00:12:29.784
– know, four or five, six years old. I

377
00:12:29.784 –> 00:12:30.985
– wonder if I had a lot of shame

378
00:12:30.985 –> 00:12:33.129
– around it back then too. Most likely I

379
00:12:33.129 –> 00:12:34.809
– did. And again, why do why do these

380
00:12:34.809 –> 00:12:37.769
– young sexual experiences matter? It’s hard sometimes to

381
00:12:37.769 –> 00:12:40.029
– measure the impact of these, but

382
00:12:40.490 –> 00:12:42.409
– you know they had an impact. Right? You

383
00:12:42.409 –> 00:12:44.649
– can’t have a sexual experience like that without

384
00:12:44.649 –> 00:12:45.149
– context

385
00:12:45.495 –> 00:12:47.975
– and think that it doesn’t somehow alter your

386
00:12:47.975 –> 00:12:50.394
– your thinking around sex and sexuality.

387
00:12:51.095 –> 00:12:52.375
– Now, what I’m about to tell you now

388
00:12:52.375 –> 00:12:53.654
– is it’s gonna be hard for me to

389
00:12:53.654 –> 00:12:56.375
– share. The reason I have not shared my

390
00:12:56.375 –> 00:12:58.919
– story on the podcast yet is it’s very

391
00:12:58.919 –> 00:13:01.100
– difficult to share this next piece.

392
00:13:01.480 –> 00:13:02.919
– A lot of shame, a lot of embarrassment,

393
00:13:02.919 –> 00:13:05.080
– you know, that I’m I’m still processing through

394
00:13:05.080 –> 00:13:07.080
– and I’ve made tons of progress, but an

395
00:13:07.080 –> 00:13:09.660
– intense an intense happening in my life. So

396
00:13:10.040 –> 00:13:11.559
– as I told you guys, right, I ended

397
00:13:11.559 –> 00:13:13.419
– up getting very little attention.

398
00:13:13.944 –> 00:13:15.304
– Everyone just wanted me to be more like

399
00:13:15.304 –> 00:13:17.404
– my brother, more Mormon, more,

400
00:13:17.784 –> 00:13:19.944
– more whatever, more basically less me and more

401
00:13:19.944 –> 00:13:21.704
– would have what everybody wanted me to be.

402
00:13:21.704 –> 00:13:24.105
– And I was not getting attention, certainly not

403
00:13:24.105 –> 00:13:25.004
– for my uniqueness,

404
00:13:25.464 –> 00:13:28.419
– and that really hurt me. And I ended

405
00:13:28.480 –> 00:13:30.019
– up getting into exhibitionism

406
00:13:30.480 –> 00:13:32.319
– when I was 10 years old. It was

407
00:13:32.319 –> 00:13:33.679
– when it started. 10, 11 was when it

408
00:13:33.679 –> 00:13:36.480
– started. And I wanted people, girls, young girls

409
00:13:36.480 –> 00:13:39.120
– my age, to see me naked, to see

410
00:13:39.120 –> 00:13:40.955
– my body parts. And

411
00:13:41.495 –> 00:13:43.654
– it eventually started to really kind of consume

412
00:13:43.654 –> 00:13:45.735
– a lot of my thoughts, you know, very

413
00:13:45.735 –> 00:13:46.875
– addictive or compulsive.

414
00:13:47.335 –> 00:13:48.634
– And while I was unsuccessful

415
00:13:49.415 –> 00:13:51.495
– because, you know, truth is, it’s hard to,

416
00:13:51.495 –> 00:13:52.695
– you know, I didn’t want to be a

417
00:13:52.695 –> 00:13:53.195
– flasher.

418
00:13:53.610 –> 00:13:55.129
– Right? So I wanted it to happen in

419
00:13:55.129 –> 00:13:57.769
– a very organic, not weird way. Right? I

420
00:13:57.769 –> 00:13:59.690
– guess my my thought process was, you know,

421
00:13:59.690 –> 00:14:01.529
– I wanted to see them naked. They probably

422
00:14:01.529 –> 00:14:03.210
– wanted to see me naked. And so it

423
00:14:03.210 –> 00:14:05.210
– wasn’t like the you know, with exhibitionism, a

424
00:14:05.210 –> 00:14:07.210
– lot of times they call it eroticized rage.

425
00:14:07.210 –> 00:14:08.934
– Right? Where you want to violate the other

426
00:14:08.934 –> 00:14:10.694
– person. That was that wasn’t what was going

427
00:14:10.694 –> 00:14:12.534
– on. I just I wanted to see them.

428
00:14:12.534 –> 00:14:14.294
– I wanted them to see me. So I

429
00:14:14.294 –> 00:14:16.375
– was unsuccessful. I I I it never I

430
00:14:16.375 –> 00:14:18.454
– could never find a situation to make it

431
00:14:18.454 –> 00:14:19.975
– happen in a way that made sense because,

432
00:14:19.975 –> 00:14:21.549
– again, I didn’t wanna be a pervert. But

433
00:14:21.549 –> 00:14:23.070
– you know what? It really didn’t matter because

434
00:14:23.070 –> 00:14:25.629
– thinking about it was enough. And as as

435
00:14:25.629 –> 00:14:27.549
– you guys know, a lot of this process

436
00:14:27.549 –> 00:14:29.870
– is the ritual. Right? It’s it’s the thinking,

437
00:14:29.870 –> 00:14:32.750
– the planning, the fantasy, the and it totally

438
00:14:32.750 –> 00:14:34.750
– occupied me. Right? You know, while in my

439
00:14:34.750 –> 00:14:37.394
– later years, I don’t actually consider my sexual

440
00:14:37.394 –> 00:14:39.495
– behavior addictive. We’ll kind of get to that

441
00:14:39.554 –> 00:14:41.394
– at the end of this podcast, later in

442
00:14:41.394 –> 00:14:43.554
– this podcast. At this point, though, this was

443
00:14:43.554 –> 00:14:45.154
– very addictive. And so this is why, you

444
00:14:45.154 –> 00:14:47.154
– know, when I meet men who actually do

445
00:14:47.154 –> 00:14:49.334
– have a sex addiction or a porn addiction,

446
00:14:49.394 –> 00:14:51.235
– I can empathize because I do know what

447
00:14:51.235 –> 00:14:53.370
– it’s like to have that problem. Now, just

448
00:14:53.370 –> 00:14:54.970
– to let you know too, I was googling

449
00:14:54.970 –> 00:14:56.889
– how to stop this. I did not want

450
00:14:56.889 –> 00:14:58.250
– to keep doing this. I was embarrassed of

451
00:14:58.250 –> 00:15:00.090
– it. I knew it was wrong. This was

452
00:15:00.090 –> 00:15:01.690
– not something I wanted to do, yet it

453
00:15:01.690 –> 00:15:03.710
– was consuming consuming my thoughts.

454
00:15:04.090 –> 00:15:06.350
– Well, like a lot of things, after failing

455
00:15:06.649 –> 00:15:07.629
– multiple times,

456
00:15:08.054 –> 00:15:10.134
– eventually for over a few years, like three

457
00:15:10.134 –> 00:15:12.075
– years of just not really ever having it

458
00:15:12.294 –> 00:15:14.534
– happen, eventually you, you, you want to make

459
00:15:14.534 –> 00:15:16.934
– it happen. And so you start to migrate

460
00:15:16.934 –> 00:15:18.875
– towards more extreme situations

461
00:15:19.254 –> 00:15:20.315
– where you can actually

462
00:15:20.774 –> 00:15:23.179
– finally have it occur. And I did. I

463
00:15:23.179 –> 00:15:25.179
– made it happen. And about a month later,

464
00:15:25.179 –> 00:15:27.420
– my dad and I were out shopping for,

465
00:15:27.420 –> 00:15:28.860
– which is a big deal as as a

466
00:15:28.860 –> 00:15:31.360
– poor kid to we were shopping for snowboard

467
00:15:31.660 –> 00:15:33.259
– equipment. And it’s really hard when you’re poor

468
00:15:33.259 –> 00:15:34.860
– because you can’t just go to any store

469
00:15:34.860 –> 00:15:35.980
– and buy it. You know, we had to

470
00:15:35.980 –> 00:15:36.404
– get

471
00:15:36.805 –> 00:15:38.565
– discounts. We had to go to discount stores

472
00:15:38.565 –> 00:15:40.965
– and, secondhand stores and whatever else to try

473
00:15:40.965 –> 00:15:42.725
– to assemble. But I was very picky. Right?

474
00:15:42.725 –> 00:15:44.404
– I wanted name brands. I wanted it all

475
00:15:44.404 –> 00:15:46.404
– to match of a certain color. And we

476
00:15:46.404 –> 00:15:48.004
– finally found all the pieces. And this is

477
00:15:48.004 –> 00:15:50.110
– after, like, months of of shopping. And we

478
00:15:50.110 –> 00:15:51.629
– were all excited, and then my my dad’s

479
00:15:51.629 –> 00:15:52.610
– cell phone rings,

480
00:15:53.309 –> 00:15:53.809
– and

481
00:15:54.269 –> 00:15:54.929
– he says,

482
00:15:55.309 –> 00:15:57.470
– oh, shit. Which is a big deal because

483
00:15:57.470 –> 00:15:59.970
– as as as Mormons, they didn’t use profanities,

484
00:16:00.190 –> 00:16:01.710
– my parents. And I just knew. I could

485
00:16:01.710 –> 00:16:03.070
– just hear it in his voice. He hung

486
00:16:03.070 –> 00:16:04.769
– up the phone and he said, Rowan,

487
00:16:05.075 –> 00:16:07.495
– when we get home, you’re gonna be arrested.

488
00:16:08.434 –> 00:16:10.134
– And I was 14 years old.

489
00:16:10.595 –> 00:16:12.274
– And at the time, you know, I felt

490
00:16:12.274 –> 00:16:13.634
– like I was a grown ass man. Right?

491
00:16:13.634 –> 00:16:15.075
– I don’t know if you guys remember when

492
00:16:15.075 –> 00:16:16.774
– you were 14, but we think we’re adults.

493
00:16:17.090 –> 00:16:18.529
– I see a 14 year old boy now,

494
00:16:18.529 –> 00:16:20.129
– and I I just see a child. And

495
00:16:20.129 –> 00:16:21.490
– so it breaks my heart to think back

496
00:16:21.490 –> 00:16:22.769
– to that. As you guys can hear in

497
00:16:22.769 –> 00:16:24.210
– my voice, it’s it’s it’s hard for me

498
00:16:24.210 –> 00:16:26.290
– to talk about. I feel really bad for

499
00:16:26.290 –> 00:16:28.370
– that little version of me. And we got

500
00:16:28.370 –> 00:16:29.570
– home, and I remember I just went in

501
00:16:29.570 –> 00:16:31.009
– my room, and I just stared at the

502
00:16:31.009 –> 00:16:33.544
– ground for an hour waiting for the police

503
00:16:33.544 –> 00:16:35.945
– to come. And they came around 9PM. My

504
00:16:35.945 –> 00:16:37.304
– mom asked if they could come late to

505
00:16:37.304 –> 00:16:39.384
– try not to have the neighbors see. And

506
00:16:39.384 –> 00:16:41.464
– unfortunately, because of the the type of the

507
00:16:41.464 –> 00:16:43.245
– crime, the public indecency,

508
00:16:43.639 –> 00:16:46.200
– the officer apologized. He said, I unfortunately, I

509
00:16:46.200 –> 00:16:47.399
– have to handcuff you and I have to

510
00:16:47.399 –> 00:16:48.779
– take you in the back of the car.

511
00:16:48.919 –> 00:16:51.000
– My parents were wanting to drive me. So

512
00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:52.919
– he came in, he handcuffed me, put me

513
00:16:52.919 –> 00:16:54.840
– in the back of the police car, drove

514
00:16:54.840 –> 00:16:57.424
– me to the police station. They fingerprinted me,

515
00:16:57.424 –> 00:16:59.264
– took my photos, and put me in a

516
00:16:59.264 –> 00:17:01.985
– holding cell for, I don’t know, probably half

517
00:17:01.985 –> 00:17:04.065
– hour, forty five minutes, something like this. And,

518
00:17:04.065 –> 00:17:05.984
– gosh, I mean, I just remember, you know,

519
00:17:05.984 –> 00:17:06.884
– I I struggled

520
00:17:07.505 –> 00:17:09.744
– feeling wanted, you know, my parents always telling

521
00:17:09.744 –> 00:17:11.529
– me to change and be different, people at

522
00:17:11.529 –> 00:17:12.970
– church telling me to change and be different.

523
00:17:12.970 –> 00:17:14.650
– I mean, the church leaders were horrible to

524
00:17:14.650 –> 00:17:16.009
– me, the things they said. I mean, they

525
00:17:16.009 –> 00:17:18.289
– really just made me feel so unwelcome and

526
00:17:18.289 –> 00:17:20.250
– and and broken. And sort of the scout

527
00:17:20.250 –> 00:17:22.730
– leaders, the scout master was the worst. He

528
00:17:22.730 –> 00:17:24.944
– just always saying, you know, you’re setting a

529
00:17:24.944 –> 00:17:26.865
– bad example. You’re I mean, just just always

530
00:17:26.865 –> 00:17:29.585
– making me feel bad. And so this was

531
00:17:29.585 –> 00:17:31.984
– a pretty pronounced moment for me because I

532
00:17:31.984 –> 00:17:34.144
– started realizing, okay, fine, screw my parents, screw

533
00:17:34.144 –> 00:17:36.065
– the church, screw all these people. You know,

534
00:17:36.065 –> 00:17:37.744
– the world was gonna be my family, right?

535
00:17:37.744 –> 00:17:39.460
– I was gonna impress you guys, and then

536
00:17:39.460 –> 00:17:40.740
– you guys were going to be my new

537
00:17:40.740 –> 00:17:43.460
– family. And this arrest was tough because it

538
00:17:43.460 –> 00:17:44.200
– was like,

539
00:17:44.820 –> 00:17:45.320
– wow,

540
00:17:45.700 –> 00:17:48.340
– no one wants me. Everyone hates me. There

541
00:17:48.340 –> 00:17:50.519
– is no place for me in this world.

542
00:17:50.820 –> 00:17:52.580
– Not at my parents, not at the church,

543
00:17:52.580 –> 00:17:54.440
– not the Boy Scouts, and now not anyone.

544
00:17:54.875 –> 00:17:57.835
– Society basically has labeled me as a problem.

545
00:17:57.835 –> 00:17:59.535
– They think I’m weird, broken.

546
00:17:59.994 –> 00:18:01.755
– And, I got home at one or two

547
00:18:01.755 –> 00:18:03.055
– in the morning and

548
00:18:03.835 –> 00:18:05.615
– went to school the next day at

549
00:18:06.154 –> 00:18:08.475
– 7AM or 07:30 or whatever, and we never

550
00:18:08.475 –> 00:18:10.230
– talked about it again. And

551
00:18:11.089 –> 00:18:12.789
– that’s hard to think about that because

552
00:18:13.169 –> 00:18:15.329
– I can only imagine what I concluded, right,

553
00:18:15.329 –> 00:18:17.829
– that my parents are so embarrassed of me

554
00:18:17.889 –> 00:18:19.329
– that they don’t even want to talk about

555
00:18:19.329 –> 00:18:19.829
– it.

556
00:18:20.210 –> 00:18:22.305
– That day changed my life for two ways.

557
00:18:22.545 –> 00:18:25.025
– One positive, one was, holy crap, if I’m

558
00:18:25.025 –> 00:18:26.785
– 18 and I do this, that’s gonna be

559
00:18:26.785 –> 00:18:28.305
– on my permanent record. I’ll never do a

560
00:18:28.305 –> 00:18:30.225
– job again. So that was, I guess, the

561
00:18:30.225 –> 00:18:31.585
– one of the positives was it was kind

562
00:18:31.585 –> 00:18:32.725
– of a wake up call.

563
00:18:33.184 –> 00:18:33.684
– The

564
00:18:34.065 –> 00:18:36.465
– negative was, I made a decision that day

565
00:18:36.465 –> 00:18:37.970
– that I am hated.

566
00:18:38.269 –> 00:18:40.349
– No one wants me. I am going to

567
00:18:40.349 –> 00:18:43.569
– have to live this life very, very differently

568
00:18:43.630 –> 00:18:45.390
– than everybody else. I’m going to, I’m going

569
00:18:45.390 –> 00:18:46.529
– to have to hide this forever,

570
00:18:46.910 –> 00:18:48.109
– and I am going to have to come

571
00:18:48.109 –> 00:18:50.029
– up with a way to compensate so that

572
00:18:50.029 –> 00:18:52.755
– people can’t find out how broken I am.

573
00:18:52.914 –> 00:18:54.115
– It’s hard for me to share that. I

574
00:18:54.115 –> 00:18:55.315
– have a I have I have a ton

575
00:18:55.315 –> 00:18:57.894
– of shame around that.

576
00:18:58.275 –> 00:19:00.115
– It’s a problem that, even to this day,

577
00:19:00.115 –> 00:19:02.035
– I feel like other people don’t have. Getting

578
00:19:02.035 –> 00:19:04.535
– arrested for it, obviously, is embarrassing and humiliating.

579
00:19:05.075 –> 00:19:06.434
– Yeah. It’s it’s just a hard thing for

580
00:19:06.434 –> 00:19:08.380
– me to talk about. And I’m really saddened

581
00:19:08.380 –> 00:19:09.980
– by it because I can only imagine

582
00:19:10.460 –> 00:19:12.320
– I can only imagine what that young boy

583
00:19:12.460 –> 00:19:14.380
– version of me was was thinking that that

584
00:19:14.380 –> 00:19:14.880
– time.

585
00:19:15.259 –> 00:19:16.859
– And honestly, I have a lot of anger

586
00:19:16.859 –> 00:19:18.539
– around it because I just don’t see what

587
00:19:18.539 –> 00:19:20.384
– the benefit was. What did we get out

588
00:19:20.384 –> 00:19:23.125
– of that? So we handcuffed this poor kid,

589
00:19:23.265 –> 00:19:24.945
– fingerprinted him, took his pictures, threw him in

590
00:19:24.945 –> 00:19:27.424
– a holding cell, basically made him feel like

591
00:19:27.424 –> 00:19:30.244
– a total useless piece of shit. For what?

592
00:19:30.384 –> 00:19:31.525
– What happened there?

593
00:19:31.920 –> 00:19:34.259
– My wife’s very angry at my parents because

594
00:19:34.559 –> 00:19:36.720
– the justice system wanted me to see a

595
00:19:36.720 –> 00:19:39.519
– sex addiction therapist. My Mormon parents were worried

596
00:19:39.519 –> 00:19:41.519
– that the sex addiction therapist was going to

597
00:19:41.519 –> 00:19:42.019
– normalize

598
00:19:42.400 –> 00:19:44.080
– masturbation and some things, and they and they

599
00:19:44.080 –> 00:19:45.840
– didn’t want that. So they made them send

600
00:19:45.840 –> 00:19:48.345
– me to a Mormon therapist. Mormon therapist saw

601
00:19:48.345 –> 00:19:49.945
– me, said, Oh, nothing wrong with this kid.

602
00:19:49.945 –> 00:19:51.865
– He’s just a normal horny kid, and went

603
00:19:51.865 –> 00:19:53.224
– to him for four sessions, and then that

604
00:19:53.224 –> 00:19:54.904
– was that. So my wife has a lot

605
00:19:54.904 –> 00:19:56.744
– of anger towards my my family around that.

606
00:19:56.744 –> 00:19:58.505
– She actually doesn’t want to see my mom

607
00:19:58.505 –> 00:19:59.244
– ever again

608
00:19:59.545 –> 00:20:02.640
– because she blames them basically because, you know,

609
00:20:02.640 –> 00:20:04.240
– and it’s a fair blame, right? Had I

610
00:20:04.240 –> 00:20:05.539
– seen a sex addiction therapist,

611
00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:07.680
– would I have cheated on my wife? Would

612
00:20:07.680 –> 00:20:10.019
– I become familiar with sex addiction

613
00:20:10.400 –> 00:20:12.720
– and been able to prevent this before I

614
00:20:12.720 –> 00:20:13.460
– got married?

615
00:20:13.920 –> 00:20:15.460
– So losing my outlet,

616
00:20:16.005 –> 00:20:17.845
– losing this, you know, because because really what

617
00:20:17.845 –> 00:20:19.144
– was I getting from exhibitionism?

618
00:20:19.445 –> 00:20:21.365
– I was being seen in a very, very

619
00:20:21.365 –> 00:20:22.265
– unique way,

620
00:20:22.565 –> 00:20:24.404
– which, you know, I wasn’t getting that anywhere

621
00:20:24.404 –> 00:20:26.724
– else in my life. Right? So I lost

622
00:20:26.724 –> 00:20:27.545
– that and

623
00:20:28.069 –> 00:20:30.470
– I got really depressed after that. My confidence

624
00:20:30.470 –> 00:20:32.630
– was just through the ground, self esteem through

625
00:20:32.630 –> 00:20:34.549
– the floor, which is the first time forever.

626
00:20:34.549 –> 00:20:37.269
– I’m a relatively confident person and so that

627
00:20:37.269 –> 00:20:39.289
– just crushed me. I mean, totally changed me.

628
00:20:39.509 –> 00:20:40.410
– And my mom,

629
00:20:40.789 –> 00:20:42.390
– she said, I didn’t want I was not

630
00:20:42.390 –> 00:20:43.210
– playing sports.

631
00:20:43.684 –> 00:20:45.125
– And so my mom took me to the

632
00:20:45.125 –> 00:20:46.164
– gym and she said, Hey, I’m going to

633
00:20:46.164 –> 00:20:47.065
– get you a gym membership

634
00:20:47.365 –> 00:20:49.605
– and had that one free personal training session.

635
00:20:49.605 –> 00:20:51.605
– I loved the gym. I got obsessed with

636
00:20:51.605 –> 00:20:54.664
– weightlifting and I eventually got into competitive bodybuilding.

637
00:20:55.525 –> 00:20:57.204
– And all of a sudden I was just

638
00:20:57.204 –> 00:21:00.269
– bone sober through bodybuilding. Bone sober. I was

639
00:21:00.269 –> 00:21:01.809
– bodybuilding for seven years.

640
00:21:02.269 –> 00:21:04.269
– All of the acting out was gone, right?

641
00:21:04.269 –> 00:21:05.569
– Well, here’s the problem.

642
00:21:05.869 –> 00:21:07.630
– It wasn’t gone. And that’s why I really

643
00:21:07.630 –> 00:21:09.309
– don’t like this to be called a sex

644
00:21:09.309 –> 00:21:09.809
– addiction,

645
00:21:10.190 –> 00:21:12.534
– because I like the term process addiction because

646
00:21:12.534 –> 00:21:14.934
– I’m addicted to being seen in a unique

647
00:21:14.934 –> 00:21:17.174
– way, not necessarily addicted to sex. That was

648
00:21:17.174 –> 00:21:19.174
– just the chosen avenue at the time. So

649
00:21:19.174 –> 00:21:21.414
– I got addicted truly to bodybuilding. I mean,

650
00:21:21.414 –> 00:21:23.335
– I wouldn’t even eat a Cheez It, not

651
00:21:23.335 –> 00:21:25.095
– even one potato chip. I mean, that’s how

652
00:21:25.095 –> 00:21:27.710
– obsessive around this I was. And, you know,

653
00:21:27.710 –> 00:21:29.630
– I’m 15 years old, right? So for a

654
00:21:29.630 –> 00:21:32.430
– 15 year old to eat chicken breast, brown

655
00:21:32.430 –> 00:21:33.330
– rice, and

656
00:21:33.869 –> 00:21:35.250
– white fish, and broccoli,

657
00:21:35.869 –> 00:21:37.710
– and not have even a piece of candy,

658
00:21:37.710 –> 00:21:39.470
– and then even go into college and not

659
00:21:39.470 –> 00:21:41.230
– drink a sip of alcohol because of what

660
00:21:41.230 –> 00:21:43.214
– it would do to harm my ability to

661
00:21:43.214 –> 00:21:45.055
– excel in the sport. I was obsessed with

662
00:21:45.055 –> 00:21:46.174
– it. It was a it was a full

663
00:21:46.174 –> 00:21:48.335
– on, you know, I think the nickname for

664
00:21:48.335 –> 00:21:50.654
– it’s bigorexia, right? It’s an eating disorder more

665
00:21:50.654 –> 00:21:51.875
– or less that involves

666
00:21:52.335 –> 00:21:55.214
– this obsession with gaining muscle. Well, the point

667
00:21:55.214 –> 00:21:57.055
– of me telling you that was I wasn’t

668
00:21:57.055 –> 00:21:59.109
– sober at all. You know, yes, I wasn’t

669
00:21:59.109 –> 00:22:00.470
– doing any of it, but I was getting

670
00:22:00.470 –> 00:22:01.289
– on stage

671
00:22:02.069 –> 00:22:04.230
– in no clothes at all and I having

672
00:22:04.230 –> 00:22:07.690
– a whole auditorium of, you know, 15,000 people

673
00:22:07.829 –> 00:22:09.589
– look at me. You know, I’m being judged

674
00:22:09.589 –> 00:22:10.089
– and

675
00:22:10.390 –> 00:22:12.309
– celebrated. You know, I go to the gym.

676
00:22:12.309 –> 00:22:15.075
– I’m getting attention from adults because I was

677
00:22:15.075 –> 00:22:16.674
– really good at it. I got really muscular.

678
00:22:16.674 –> 00:22:18.615
– By 18 years old, I went to Nationals.

679
00:22:18.835 –> 00:22:19.734
– I got sponsored.

680
00:22:20.194 –> 00:22:21.795
– I was very good at the sport because

681
00:22:21.795 –> 00:22:23.714
– of my dedication. So here I am getting

682
00:22:23.714 –> 00:22:25.634
– attention in a very unique way. I mean,

683
00:22:25.634 –> 00:22:27.714
– seriously, teachers at school, even my parents, you

684
00:22:27.714 –> 00:22:29.234
– know, my dad was so impressed with my

685
00:22:29.234 –> 00:22:31.289
– discipline. So my point of sharing that is

686
00:22:31.289 –> 00:22:33.609
– really important, right? Here I am not doing

687
00:22:33.609 –> 00:22:35.690
– any of the sexual stuff for those seven,

688
00:22:35.690 –> 00:22:36.349
– eight years,

689
00:22:36.809 –> 00:22:38.829
– but getting a ton of attention

690
00:22:39.130 –> 00:22:40.890
– really in a unique way and on my

691
00:22:40.890 –> 00:22:43.609
– body. Right? So how sober am I? Not

692
00:22:43.609 –> 00:22:45.390
– really, right? It’s the exact same process,

693
00:22:45.784 –> 00:22:47.404
– Exact same process addiction.

694
00:22:47.944 –> 00:22:49.944
– And as this went on, one thing that

695
00:22:49.944 –> 00:22:51.544
– bodybuilding did, and this kinda teed me up

696
00:22:51.544 –> 00:22:53.244
– for the next tier of my sex addiction

697
00:22:53.464 –> 00:22:55.784
– or compulsive behavior, whatever we wanna call it.

698
00:22:55.784 –> 00:22:57.944
– Bodybuilding gave me a ton of confidence. Right?

699
00:22:57.944 –> 00:22:59.304
– Because now all of a sudden I’m getting

700
00:22:59.304 –> 00:23:01.740
– attention. Right? And I also noticed that once

701
00:23:01.740 –> 00:23:02.880
– I had a six pack

702
00:23:03.419 –> 00:23:05.039
– and biceps and confidence,

703
00:23:05.339 –> 00:23:07.980
– girls liked me now. I’d always had had

704
00:23:07.980 –> 00:23:10.700
– bad luck with girls. Right? Every all the

705
00:23:10.700 –> 00:23:11.839
– girls that I wanted,

706
00:23:12.214 –> 00:23:14.134
– they would not like me back or they’d

707
00:23:14.134 –> 00:23:15.974
– go for other guys who were typically more

708
00:23:15.974 –> 00:23:18.535
– charismatic and and, you know, athletic than I

709
00:23:18.535 –> 00:23:20.615
– was. Right? So now the tables have turned.

710
00:23:20.615 –> 00:23:22.954
– Right? Here I am. I have the athletic

711
00:23:23.015 –> 00:23:24.855
– look, even though I’m not good at sports,

712
00:23:24.855 –> 00:23:26.375
– but I look like I look like I

713
00:23:26.375 –> 00:23:29.160
– am. And, obviously, I’m getting confident because everywhere

714
00:23:29.160 –> 00:23:30.920
– I go, you know, now all these guys

715
00:23:30.920 –> 00:23:32.440
– are asking me, hey, how’d you get your

716
00:23:32.440 –> 00:23:34.200
– arms so big? How you know, I’m I’m

717
00:23:34.200 –> 00:23:35.880
– now this, like, spectacle. Right? So that gave

718
00:23:35.880 –> 00:23:37.640
– me a lot of confidence. And then something

719
00:23:37.640 –> 00:23:39.480
– happened. Right? So here I am. Girls kinda

720
00:23:39.480 –> 00:23:41.785
– became the new thing. Right? So I really

721
00:23:41.785 –> 00:23:43.305
– enjoyed being able to get their attention. And

722
00:23:43.305 –> 00:23:44.744
– I was I was easily out of the

723
00:23:44.744 –> 00:23:46.105
– whole state. Right? I was it was me

724
00:23:46.105 –> 00:23:47.484
– and one of the kids that were bodybuilding.

725
00:23:47.704 –> 00:23:49.704
– This is before bodybuilding got popular. And I

726
00:23:49.704 –> 00:23:51.625
– was doing really well with with getting attention

727
00:23:51.625 –> 00:23:53.224
– from girls. And so think about that, going

728
00:23:53.224 –> 00:23:55.480
– from a life where I couldn’t get their

729
00:23:55.480 –> 00:23:56.919
– attention to a life where I’m getting a

730
00:23:56.919 –> 00:23:59.400
– lot of their attention and we know that

731
00:23:59.400 –> 00:24:01.720
– attention is a big wound of mine. Now

732
00:24:01.720 –> 00:24:03.720
– here I found this avenue to fulfill this

733
00:24:03.720 –> 00:24:04.220
– wound.

734
00:24:04.679 –> 00:24:07.160
– So eventually I ended up stealing. I had

735
00:24:07.160 –> 00:24:09.079
– this girl that I liked, really liked a

736
00:24:09.079 –> 00:24:11.045
– lot. But she had a boyfriend, but I

737
00:24:11.045 –> 00:24:13.605
– wanted her. And so I kind of started

738
00:24:13.605 –> 00:24:16.565
– flirting with her. Well, eventually she decided she

739
00:24:16.565 –> 00:24:18.484
– liked me and we talked to she decided

740
00:24:18.484 –> 00:24:20.904
– to break up with her boyfriend and become

741
00:24:20.964 –> 00:24:21.625
– my girlfriend.

742
00:24:22.009 –> 00:24:24.109
– And oh my gosh, I’ll tell you what,

743
00:24:24.169 –> 00:24:27.210
– I felt so superior, right? I felt better

744
00:24:27.210 –> 00:24:29.769
– than him, right? Because I took his girlfriend

745
00:24:29.769 –> 00:24:32.429
– from her, right? She chose me over him.

746
00:24:32.809 –> 00:24:35.289
– And oh man, that really just was the

747
00:24:35.289 –> 00:24:36.589
– beginning of my superiority

748
00:24:36.970 –> 00:24:37.470
– complex

749
00:24:38.144 –> 00:24:39.904
– that really got out of control. Right? And

750
00:24:39.904 –> 00:24:41.045
– so this led to

751
00:24:41.664 –> 00:24:43.825
– a big, big, big portion of my of

752
00:24:43.825 –> 00:24:47.205
– my compulsive sexual behavior, which was conquesting after

753
00:24:47.345 –> 00:24:49.345
– and conquering women. I would and I did

754
00:24:49.345 –> 00:24:51.105
– it in a really interesting way. I didn’t

755
00:24:51.105 –> 00:24:52.404
– do it through, like, flirting

756
00:24:53.080 –> 00:24:55.240
– and pickup lines and any of that. Because

757
00:24:55.240 –> 00:24:57.180
– again, I wanted to be special and chosen

758
00:24:57.240 –> 00:24:59.799
– before my uniqueness. So, I couldn’t convince them

759
00:24:59.799 –> 00:25:01.640
– to pick me. That wasn’t the point. I

760
00:25:01.640 –> 00:25:03.480
– had to just kind of find a way

761
00:25:03.480 –> 00:25:06.860
– of presenting this perfect, the perfect guy

762
00:25:07.465 –> 00:25:09.345
– in front of them and then have them

763
00:25:09.345 –> 00:25:11.785
– choose me. And even better, I really liked,

764
00:25:11.785 –> 00:25:14.184
– because of my superiority complex, I really liked

765
00:25:14.184 –> 00:25:16.744
– to steal girls away from other guys, especially

766
00:25:16.744 –> 00:25:19.225
– guys that were considered the coolest guys in

767
00:25:19.225 –> 00:25:20.799
– the school or whatever, you know, the coolest

768
00:25:20.799 –> 00:25:22.320
– athletes. Like if I could if I could

769
00:25:22.320 –> 00:25:24.080
– take his girlfriend, then that would mean I’m

770
00:25:24.080 –> 00:25:25.920
– better than him. And again, I have a

771
00:25:25.920 –> 00:25:29.220
– long history of feeling less than, feeling unwanted,

772
00:25:29.359 –> 00:25:31.840
– feeling rejected my whole life. So now here

773
00:25:31.840 –> 00:25:33.940
– I am buff, I’m charismatic,

774
00:25:34.465 –> 00:25:36.865
– and now I’m getting every girl I want.

775
00:25:36.865 –> 00:25:38.465
– Right? Every time I want that one, I

776
00:25:38.465 –> 00:25:40.065
– go get her, even if she’s taken. Right?

777
00:25:40.065 –> 00:25:43.025
– And so now I’m feeling, again, superior. I’m

778
00:25:43.025 –> 00:25:43.525
– feeling

779
00:25:43.825 –> 00:25:45.265
– special. And the way that I did it,

780
00:25:45.265 –> 00:25:47.424
– right, I figured it out. And it’s really

781
00:25:47.424 –> 00:25:49.809
– gross to talk about, right? Because it had

782
00:25:49.809 –> 00:25:51.570
– nothing to do really with me liking her

783
00:25:51.570 –> 00:25:53.570
– and had way more to do with with

784
00:25:53.570 –> 00:25:56.210
– me and feeling good about myself. And here’s

785
00:25:56.210 –> 00:25:58.690
– the embarrassing part was I would find out

786
00:25:58.690 –> 00:26:00.609
– what she likes in a guy, and I

787
00:26:00.609 –> 00:26:03.090
– would basically cast a spell on her and

788
00:26:03.090 –> 00:26:04.950
– present this perfect guy

789
00:26:05.335 –> 00:26:06.855
– in front of her, and then she would

790
00:26:06.855 –> 00:26:09.015
– leave her boyfriend and choose me because I

791
00:26:09.015 –> 00:26:11.095
– was everything she’d ever looked for. Well, the

792
00:26:11.095 –> 00:26:12.695
– problem was it was all an act. It

793
00:26:12.695 –> 00:26:14.855
– wasn’t actually who I was. I was doing

794
00:26:14.855 –> 00:26:16.775
– it just to take her away from her

795
00:26:16.775 –> 00:26:18.775
– boyfriend. And I had a repeating pattern of

796
00:26:18.775 –> 00:26:20.589
– doing this. And the problem is with my

797
00:26:20.589 –> 00:26:21.089
– insecurities,

798
00:26:21.390 –> 00:26:23.470
– I’m always in a relationship. So here I

799
00:26:23.470 –> 00:26:24.909
– am, I’m in a relationship with a girl

800
00:26:24.909 –> 00:26:27.089
– that I really, really like. I really like,

801
00:26:27.150 –> 00:26:29.250
– but then I have this habit of

802
00:26:29.630 –> 00:26:31.409
– cheating on my girlfriends

803
00:26:31.914 –> 00:26:33.835
– to go steal this other girlfriend from this

804
00:26:33.835 –> 00:26:35.755
– other guy. And then, you know, eventually I

805
00:26:35.755 –> 00:26:37.355
– would have to leave my girlfriend to go

806
00:26:37.355 –> 00:26:38.714
– be with this new girl that I stole

807
00:26:38.714 –> 00:26:41.115
– away. And then I would not even like

808
00:26:41.115 –> 00:26:42.875
– this new girl. And so after like a

809
00:26:42.875 –> 00:26:44.075
– month or month and a half, I would

810
00:26:44.075 –> 00:26:45.460
– break it off with her and then go

811
00:26:45.460 –> 00:26:46.980
– back to my old girlfriend. So here I

812
00:26:46.980 –> 00:26:49.160
– am, I’m pissing off all these freaking girls,

813
00:26:49.299 –> 00:26:51.380
– my current girlfriends, my other girls I’m stealing

814
00:26:51.380 –> 00:26:53.539
– away from guys. But I mean, it truly,

815
00:26:53.539 –> 00:26:55.640
– I was addicted to that process. I mean,

816
00:26:55.700 –> 00:26:58.680
– I became addicted to being wanted, being chosen,

817
00:26:58.875 –> 00:27:00.654
– and then even more so that superiority

818
00:27:01.355 –> 00:27:03.674
– and dominance and alpha male kind of complex

819
00:27:03.674 –> 00:27:05.755
– of I’m going to take your girl. And

820
00:27:05.755 –> 00:27:07.755
– this whole thing of I can get what

821
00:27:07.755 –> 00:27:09.595
– I want. There’s nothing that I can’t get.

822
00:27:09.595 –> 00:27:11.890
– Which again, coming back from my childhood, I

823
00:27:11.890 –> 00:27:14.289
– didn’t get anything I wanted. They controlled me.

824
00:27:14.289 –> 00:27:16.210
– My parents told me they controlled me. They

825
00:27:16.210 –> 00:27:18.929
– rejected me. Right? So I felt very suppressed

826
00:27:18.929 –> 00:27:20.529
– and contained. So now to be able to

827
00:27:20.529 –> 00:27:22.390
– call the shots and do whatever I wanted,

828
00:27:22.529 –> 00:27:24.690
– I was really addicted to that process as

829
00:27:24.690 –> 00:27:25.970
– well. Again, that’s why I like to call

830
00:27:25.970 –> 00:27:27.914
– it a process addiction was, you know, really

831
00:27:27.914 –> 00:27:30.075
– had nothing to do with sex. It had

832
00:27:30.075 –> 00:27:31.855
– everything to do with being superior,

833
00:27:32.394 –> 00:27:35.355
– being wanted, being chosen, and not being suppressed,

834
00:27:35.355 –> 00:27:37.195
– and basically being able to get whatever I

835
00:27:37.195 –> 00:27:39.355
– wanted when I wanted it. And I really

836
00:27:39.355 –> 00:27:41.195
– liked the way that felt. Now, all of

837
00:27:41.195 –> 00:27:43.730
– it’s pathological. Right? I like it only because

838
00:27:43.730 –> 00:27:45.409
– I was led to believe that I was

839
00:27:45.409 –> 00:27:47.889
– nobody, that I wasn’t special, that nobody wanted

840
00:27:47.889 –> 00:27:49.970
– me, and that I couldn’t get the things

841
00:27:49.970 –> 00:27:51.649
– that I wanted. So now here I am

842
00:27:51.649 –> 00:27:53.429
– crafting a life that’s the opposite.

843
00:27:53.730 –> 00:27:55.669
– That’s why I encourage you guys to you

844
00:27:55.730 –> 00:27:57.349
– to look at this as a process addiction

845
00:27:57.575 –> 00:27:59.095
– rather than a sex addiction is a lot

846
00:27:59.095 –> 00:28:00.855
– of the times what guys are doing, especially

847
00:28:00.855 –> 00:28:04.134
– high achieving men, we’re engaging in processes, thought

848
00:28:04.134 –> 00:28:04.634
– processes

849
00:28:05.015 –> 00:28:07.015
– that validate a story about us that we

850
00:28:07.015 –> 00:28:09.335
– like. And I did this for years until

851
00:28:09.335 –> 00:28:11.730
– I finally fell into real love, like deep

852
00:28:11.730 –> 00:28:12.869
– love. And

853
00:28:13.250 –> 00:28:14.690
– I went kind of back to my old

854
00:28:14.690 –> 00:28:15.190
– patterns.

855
00:28:15.890 –> 00:28:17.009
– You know, I’d go on a work trip

856
00:28:17.009 –> 00:28:17.750
– and and

857
00:28:18.049 –> 00:28:20.529
– go conquesting after women. Well, here’s the problem.

858
00:28:20.529 –> 00:28:22.529
– I fell in love, like actual love with

859
00:28:22.529 –> 00:28:24.529
– somebody who loved me in a very authentic,

860
00:28:24.529 –> 00:28:25.875
– real way. So then when I went back

861
00:28:25.875 –> 00:28:28.115
– to my old patterns, it felt yucky. It

862
00:28:28.115 –> 00:28:29.715
– felt like what I’m about to do sounds

863
00:28:29.715 –> 00:28:32.035
– funny, but it felt like cheating, which I’m

864
00:28:32.035 –> 00:28:34.115
– laughing because it was cheating the whole freaking

865
00:28:34.115 –> 00:28:35.795
– time. You know? But in my head, I

866
00:28:35.795 –> 00:28:38.035
– was telling myself some positive story about what

867
00:28:38.035 –> 00:28:39.315
– I was doing, but in reality, I was

868
00:28:39.315 –> 00:28:40.910
– a chronic cheater. Right? But when I fell

869
00:28:40.910 –> 00:28:42.429
– in real love, I it felt gross. It

870
00:28:42.429 –> 00:28:44.609
– felt yucky. It’s like, well, now I’m really

871
00:28:44.669 –> 00:28:46.910
– in love with this girl. This feels like

872
00:28:46.910 –> 00:28:48.910
– cheating. This feels wrong to go kind of

873
00:28:48.910 –> 00:28:51.630
– court these other women, these other girls. So

874
00:28:51.630 –> 00:28:53.585
– I ended up started getting into kind of

875
00:28:53.585 –> 00:28:56.065
– one night stand culture, right? Where I don’t

876
00:28:56.065 –> 00:28:57.664
– know your name, you don’t know my name,

877
00:28:57.664 –> 00:28:58.785
– we’re not going to date, we’re never going

878
00:28:58.785 –> 00:29:00.705
– to see each other, let’s just have very

879
00:29:00.705 –> 00:29:03.025
– casual sex. So then I started, you know,

880
00:29:03.025 –> 00:29:05.025
– I was never a drinker. Well, I started

881
00:29:05.025 –> 00:29:07.660
– drinking because usually one night stand culture you

882
00:29:07.660 –> 00:29:09.200
– know, usually involves bars,

883
00:29:09.579 –> 00:29:11.660
– nightclubs and things like that. And so then

884
00:29:11.660 –> 00:29:13.259
– that that, oh my gosh, I got into

885
00:29:13.259 –> 00:29:15.599
– that culture and it was such a rush.

886
00:29:15.980 –> 00:29:18.460
– And I got even more addicted to that

887
00:29:18.460 –> 00:29:20.940
– process, right? This whole game of, okay, come

888
00:29:20.940 –> 00:29:22.799
– into the bar, scan the room.

889
00:29:23.105 –> 00:29:24.945
– Where’s the hottest one that everybody wants? Okay,

890
00:29:24.945 –> 00:29:26.464
– I’m going to go get her. Right? And

891
00:29:26.464 –> 00:29:28.565
– so again, kind of playing into my superiority

892
00:29:28.625 –> 00:29:31.105
– complex, right? Coming in, picking the one I

893
00:29:31.105 –> 00:29:33.184
– want and taking her from all the other

894
00:29:33.184 –> 00:29:34.785
– guys. And it was very important to me

895
00:29:34.785 –> 00:29:36.889
– that the guys saw me doing it. And

896
00:29:36.889 –> 00:29:38.669
– this is kind of unique to me, but

897
00:29:38.809 –> 00:29:40.809
– yes, I want the attention from the women,

898
00:29:40.809 –> 00:29:42.649
– but I actually get a bigger high from

899
00:29:42.649 –> 00:29:44.409
– all the men in the room knowing that

900
00:29:44.409 –> 00:29:46.089
– I’m better than you. I can get the

901
00:29:46.089 –> 00:29:47.690
– things that you can’t get. Right? That was

902
00:29:47.690 –> 00:29:49.630
– a huge part of my process of addiction.

903
00:29:50.154 –> 00:29:52.815
– And a place that I found that was

904
00:29:53.035 –> 00:29:55.035
– really not easy to do this, but an

905
00:29:55.035 –> 00:29:57.035
– exciting way to do this was Las Vegas.

906
00:29:57.035 –> 00:29:59.115
– In Las Vegas, they have this whole bottle

907
00:29:59.115 –> 00:30:01.194
– service culture where you buy a table and

908
00:30:01.194 –> 00:30:03.134
– you order all these bottles and you spend

909
00:30:03.400 –> 00:30:04.759
– anywhere between $30,000

910
00:30:04.759 –> 00:30:05.960
– and $100,000

911
00:30:05.960 –> 00:30:07.960
– on a five hour party, basically. But when

912
00:30:07.960 –> 00:30:09.880
– you have this table, all the girls wanna

913
00:30:09.880 –> 00:30:11.960
– come to the table, right? Free drinks and

914
00:30:11.960 –> 00:30:13.960
– a nice comfortable place to party. So I

915
00:30:13.960 –> 00:30:15.819
– got really, really, really into

916
00:30:16.119 –> 00:30:18.059
– that Las Vegas culture. I mean, I was

917
00:30:18.200 –> 00:30:20.255
– in grad school in debt up to my

918
00:30:20.255 –> 00:30:23.214
– eyeballs, getting my doctorate degree and I’m taking

919
00:30:23.214 –> 00:30:24.974
– money that I should not be spending. I’m

920
00:30:24.974 –> 00:30:27.134
– flying down to Las Vegas once a month,

921
00:30:27.134 –> 00:30:28.894
– twice a month. And I mean, how stupid

922
00:30:28.894 –> 00:30:30.595
– was that? I can’t believe it. I’m pathetic.

923
00:30:31.054 –> 00:30:32.894
– Really, gosh. But here I am going down

924
00:30:32.894 –> 00:30:34.414
– there because this is now how I have

925
00:30:34.414 –> 00:30:35.190
– to go do this.

926
00:30:36.069 –> 00:30:37.909
– And I think the most embarrassing thing that

927
00:30:37.909 –> 00:30:39.829
– I really don’t wanna share, but, you know,

928
00:30:39.829 –> 00:30:41.589
– the point of this of this podcast is

929
00:30:41.589 –> 00:30:43.909
– to be vulnerable and honest with you guys,

930
00:30:43.909 –> 00:30:45.829
– right? That’s the goal of recovery. But again,

931
00:30:45.829 –> 00:30:46.950
– it’s hard to share a lot of this

932
00:30:46.950 –> 00:30:48.894
– stuff with with the world, but it really

933
00:30:48.894 –> 00:30:49.394
– embarrassing.

934
00:30:49.855 –> 00:30:51.934
– So yes, these one night stands were easier

935
00:30:51.934 –> 00:30:53.714
– than having flirting relationships,

936
00:30:54.095 –> 00:30:55.775
– but I couldn’t do it sober. So I

937
00:30:55.775 –> 00:30:57.615
– would have to get super drunk, not just

938
00:30:57.615 –> 00:30:59.934
– kind of drunk, super drunk. I could not

939
00:30:59.934 –> 00:31:00.434
– cheat

940
00:31:00.759 –> 00:31:02.440
– because cheating is just so against my morals

941
00:31:02.440 –> 00:31:04.440
– and values, but I could not cheat. I

942
00:31:04.440 –> 00:31:05.880
– had to get so drunk so that I

943
00:31:05.880 –> 00:31:07.400
– could do it. Well, here’s the embarrassing part.

944
00:31:07.400 –> 00:31:08.839
– I would get so drunk I couldn’t get

945
00:31:08.839 –> 00:31:10.839
– an erection. So then I had to start

946
00:31:10.839 –> 00:31:12.460
– getting Sialis and Viagra

947
00:31:13.160 –> 00:31:15.799
– so that I could cheat. I mean, just

948
00:31:15.799 –> 00:31:17.934
– think about this. The whole point of going

949
00:31:17.934 –> 00:31:20.335
– flying there was to cheat. And I have

950
00:31:20.335 –> 00:31:22.734
– this massive elaborate plan to do all this.

951
00:31:22.734 –> 00:31:23.714
– It’s just insane.

952
00:31:24.095 –> 00:31:26.355
– And I did this for a long time.

953
00:31:26.494 –> 00:31:28.274
– And then once I finally got married,

954
00:31:28.575 –> 00:31:30.734
– that became very difficult. You can’t just, you

955
00:31:30.734 –> 00:31:32.950
– can’t just fly down to Las Vegas all

956
00:31:32.950 –> 00:31:35.670
– the time and, you know, hide this. It’s

957
00:31:35.670 –> 00:31:38.070
– got very difficult to hide. It’s very difficult

958
00:31:38.070 –> 00:31:40.390
– to go picking up girls and hide it

959
00:31:40.390 –> 00:31:41.369
– from your wife.

960
00:31:41.750 –> 00:31:43.509
– And this was when I started to move

961
00:31:43.509 –> 00:31:46.464
– into massage parlors and paid sex, you know,

962
00:31:46.464 –> 00:31:48.464
– using sex workers. And this is, you know,

963
00:31:48.464 –> 00:31:50.704
– this was not ideal for me because as

964
00:31:50.704 –> 00:31:52.544
– you guys have probably heard through the rest

965
00:31:52.544 –> 00:31:53.684
– of this podcast episode,

966
00:31:54.065 –> 00:31:55.764
– a big part of my

967
00:31:56.144 –> 00:31:59.024
– addiction, my process addiction is getting them to

968
00:31:59.024 –> 00:32:01.779
– choose me, Right? So I’m showing them this

969
00:32:01.779 –> 00:32:04.179
– image of the perfect male and I’m stealing

970
00:32:04.179 –> 00:32:06.099
– them away from their boyfriends or I’m, you

971
00:32:06.099 –> 00:32:07.779
– know, I’m getting them to, you know, positioning

972
00:32:07.779 –> 00:32:09.299
– myself as like, Oh, I don’t need you.

973
00:32:09.299 –> 00:32:11.539
– You need me kind of thing. So as

974
00:32:11.539 –> 00:32:13.480
– you can imagine, paying for it was

975
00:32:13.785 –> 00:32:15.005
– just very unsatisfying.

976
00:32:15.625 –> 00:32:17.244
– But you know what’s interesting?

977
00:32:17.625 –> 00:32:19.465
– My acting out got so much worse and

978
00:32:19.465 –> 00:32:20.845
– I actually ended up doing

979
00:32:21.305 –> 00:32:22.825
– more of that, I think, than I did

980
00:32:22.825 –> 00:32:25.065
– conquesting. Actually, not I think. I know I

981
00:32:25.065 –> 00:32:26.845
– did way more of that than conquesting.

982
00:32:27.250 –> 00:32:29.250
– And there’s two reasons I suspect why that

983
00:32:29.250 –> 00:32:32.390
– happened. One was I was not getting really

984
00:32:32.450 –> 00:32:34.630
– anything that I wanted out of it. Paying

985
00:32:35.009 –> 00:32:36.150
– for it was just

986
00:32:36.609 –> 00:32:39.329
– not satisfying. I wanted to be chosen and

987
00:32:39.329 –> 00:32:40.450
– when you’re paying for it, you’re not being

988
00:32:40.450 –> 00:32:42.315
– chosen. If anything, it’s the opposite of being

989
00:32:42.394 –> 00:32:44.315
– chosen. They don’t want to be doing this.

990
00:32:44.315 –> 00:32:46.554
– They’re only doing this for money. And so

991
00:32:46.554 –> 00:32:47.914
– I got nothing out of it. Right? So

992
00:32:47.914 –> 00:32:49.694
– I think, you know, here I am unsatisfied.

993
00:32:49.994 –> 00:32:51.914
– So, you know, in my delusional fantasy, it’s

994
00:32:51.914 –> 00:32:53.674
– like, Oh, this will be different next time.

995
00:32:53.674 –> 00:32:55.034
– Or, Oh, I’ll try it again and I’ll

996
00:32:55.034 –> 00:32:56.880
– do this this time and then it’ll work.

997
00:32:57.119 –> 00:32:58.559
– And that was stupid. I mean, it just

998
00:32:58.559 –> 00:33:00.960
– never worked, even though I’m trying over and

999
00:33:00.960 –> 00:33:02.259
– over and over and over again.

1000
00:33:02.640 –> 00:33:04.079
– But I also think a reason that it

1001
00:33:04.079 –> 00:33:05.220
– got worse was

1002
00:33:05.759 –> 00:33:07.920
– the shame, right? The shame that I had

1003
00:33:07.920 –> 00:33:10.375
– I had now stooped to that level of

1004
00:33:10.375 –> 00:33:13.335
– prostitution, right? Massage parlors, that’s prostitution. I mean,

1005
00:33:13.335 –> 00:33:14.855
– that’s just what it is. And so here

1006
00:33:14.855 –> 00:33:16.454
– I am paying for it. I mean, and

1007
00:33:16.454 –> 00:33:18.535
– I remember when my dad, when I was

1008
00:33:18.535 –> 00:33:20.694
– like 11 or something, my dad explained to

1009
00:33:20.694 –> 00:33:22.054
– me what a prostitute was. And I remember

1010
00:33:22.054 –> 00:33:24.054
– telling him, dad, that’s gross. Like what kind

1011
00:33:24.054 –> 00:33:25.679
– of guy does that? Like, that is, that

1012
00:33:25.679 –> 00:33:26.419
– is disgusting.

1013
00:33:26.880 –> 00:33:28.799
– And here I am being that guy. And

1014
00:33:28.799 –> 00:33:30.799
– so I think, I think the shame started

1015
00:33:30.799 –> 00:33:32.880
– eating me alive was I’m not getting what

1016
00:33:32.880 –> 00:33:35.599
– I want out of this. And I’m also

1017
00:33:35.599 –> 00:33:38.894
– just in immense shame. I mean, just acting

1018
00:33:38.894 –> 00:33:39.715
– like a total

1019
00:33:40.095 –> 00:33:41.154
– loser, dehumanizing

1020
00:33:41.455 –> 00:33:42.195
– other people,

1021
00:33:42.575 –> 00:33:43.715
– dehumanizing myself.

1022
00:33:44.174 –> 00:33:46.095
– And my wife, right, it was really hard

1023
00:33:46.095 –> 00:33:47.455
– for her to see this because she’s like,

1024
00:33:47.455 –> 00:33:49.295
– Man, it sure looks like you acted out

1025
00:33:49.295 –> 00:33:52.115
– more with me and in more disgusting ways

1026
00:33:52.255 –> 00:33:53.455
– than you did with any of the other

1027
00:33:53.455 –> 00:33:55.990
– women. Right? What’s so wrong with me that

1028
00:33:55.990 –> 00:33:57.190
– you need to do all of this? You

1029
00:33:57.190 –> 00:33:58.630
– never did this in any of your other

1030
00:33:58.630 –> 00:34:00.549
– relationships. And it’s really sad to hear her

1031
00:34:00.549 –> 00:34:03.029
– say that because she’s blaming herself. And the

1032
00:34:03.029 –> 00:34:04.390
– truth was it had nothing to do with

1033
00:34:04.390 –> 00:34:06.710
– her and everything to do with my inability

1034
00:34:06.710 –> 00:34:08.010
– to satisfy my processes.

1035
00:34:08.390 –> 00:34:09.744
– Right? You You know, we all have this

1036
00:34:09.744 –> 00:34:11.425
– story in our head that we’re going to

1037
00:34:11.425 –> 00:34:12.565
– stop when we get married.

1038
00:34:12.864 –> 00:34:15.025
– And this is not true. Right? I mean,

1039
00:34:15.025 –> 00:34:16.704
– if you have these needs and you’ve and

1040
00:34:16.704 –> 00:34:19.045
– you’ve become very dependent on

1041
00:34:19.664 –> 00:34:21.905
– being seen in this, in this particular way

1042
00:34:21.905 –> 00:34:23.764
– and being chosen by these women and conquesting

1043
00:34:23.824 –> 00:34:25.519
– after them and stealing them from other men,

1044
00:34:25.519 –> 00:34:26.420
– etcetera, etcetera.

1045
00:34:26.800 –> 00:34:28.880
– Sleeping with married women, right? That was something

1046
00:34:28.880 –> 00:34:30.179
– that I enjoyed because

1047
00:34:30.480 –> 00:34:32.159
– again, you know, she’s willing to risk it

1048
00:34:32.159 –> 00:34:34.239
– all and I’m the first guy she’s ever

1049
00:34:34.239 –> 00:34:36.340
– cheated with. I must be that special.

1050
00:34:36.735 –> 00:34:38.894
– And it’s just this really sad thing. And

1051
00:34:38.894 –> 00:34:40.974
– now here’s my wife blaming herself for it

1052
00:34:40.974 –> 00:34:42.095
– when it has nothing to do with her

1053
00:34:42.095 –> 00:34:43.695
– and just a bunch of things that I

1054
00:34:43.695 –> 00:34:45.775
– I should have had taken care of before

1055
00:34:45.775 –> 00:34:46.675
– her and I met.

1056
00:34:46.974 –> 00:34:49.934
– Really sad. Really sad. So obviously I get

1057
00:34:49.934 –> 00:34:51.909
– discovered, right? I got caught, you know, like

1058
00:34:51.909 –> 00:34:53.269
– most of the guys listening to this, I

1059
00:34:53.269 –> 00:34:54.329
– did not come clean.

1060
00:34:54.789 –> 00:34:56.889
– Most of us don’t, right? We get caught

1061
00:34:56.949 –> 00:34:59.429
– and I screwed everything up, you guys. I

1062
00:34:59.429 –> 00:35:01.190
– screwed all of it up, right? I tried

1063
00:35:01.190 –> 00:35:03.429
– to cover my tracks. I gaslit her and

1064
00:35:03.429 –> 00:35:05.234
– tried to make her seem like this was

1065
00:35:05.234 –> 00:35:06.755
– just a one time thing that all of

1066
00:35:06.755 –> 00:35:07.734
– her fear was

1067
00:35:08.114 –> 00:35:08.614
– unjustified,

1068
00:35:08.994 –> 00:35:10.835
– right? Which is just such a horrible thing

1069
00:35:10.835 –> 00:35:12.914
– to do, right? Lie after lie after lie

1070
00:35:12.914 –> 00:35:14.755
– after lie after lie. And again, I’m not

1071
00:35:14.755 –> 00:35:16.594
– meaning to lie. I’m just, you know, I

1072
00:35:16.594 –> 00:35:18.275
– don’t wanna lose my wife, right? So in

1073
00:35:18.275 –> 00:35:20.750
– my head, I’m doing and saying whatever I

1074
00:35:20.750 –> 00:35:23.089
– can to get her to not divorce me.

1075
00:35:23.469 –> 00:35:26.190
– Well, then she listened to a podcast about

1076
00:35:26.190 –> 00:35:28.510
– polygraph tests, and I just knew I was

1077
00:35:28.510 –> 00:35:29.010
– screwed.

1078
00:35:29.469 –> 00:35:31.170
– So we did the disclosure process.

1079
00:35:31.710 –> 00:35:34.210
– Mine was 14 pages long, just a long

1080
00:35:34.510 –> 00:35:35.010
– list.

1081
00:35:35.424 –> 00:35:36.964
– And my wife did not know

1082
00:35:37.344 –> 00:35:40.065
– probably 95% of it. She really knew just

1083
00:35:40.065 –> 00:35:42.724
– one thing. And so she was blindsided

1084
00:35:43.264 –> 00:35:44.244
– by this disclosure.

1085
00:35:44.625 –> 00:35:46.944
– You know, it was way, you know, way

1086
00:35:46.944 –> 00:35:49.199
– more information than she thought. And I gaslight

1087
00:35:49.199 –> 00:35:50.800
– her, right? So here she is. She’s going

1088
00:35:50.800 –> 00:35:52.800
– in thinking, Okay, maybe there’s one more girl

1089
00:35:52.800 –> 00:35:54.800
– or two more girls. And then she finds

1090
00:35:54.800 –> 00:35:57.119
– out all this information and, you know, just

1091
00:35:57.119 –> 00:35:59.239
– rocked her world, just rocked her world, right?

1092
00:35:59.239 –> 00:36:01.280
– You know, in her mind, I would never

1093
00:36:01.280 –> 00:36:03.045
– do this to her. And in my mind,

1094
00:36:03.045 –> 00:36:04.565
– I would actually never do this to her.

1095
00:36:04.565 –> 00:36:06.025
– But here we are, like,

1096
00:36:06.324 –> 00:36:07.144
– I’m in disbelief.

1097
00:36:07.445 –> 00:36:09.065
– She’s completely freaking shocked.

1098
00:36:09.684 –> 00:36:11.844
– Obviously pissed that I’m shocked because she’s like,

1099
00:36:11.844 –> 00:36:13.125
– you knew what you were doing the whole

1100
00:36:13.125 –> 00:36:15.059
– time. Why are you shocked? I mean, just

1101
00:36:15.059 –> 00:36:16.739
– just a frickin’ mess. I mean, everybody listening

1102
00:36:16.739 –> 00:36:18.420
– to this knows you guys have been discovered.

1103
00:36:18.420 –> 00:36:20.340
– I mean, it’s just a horrific, a horrific

1104
00:36:20.340 –> 00:36:21.160
– time of life.

1105
00:36:21.539 –> 00:36:23.700
– Very, very, very sad. Now, I just want

1106
00:36:23.700 –> 00:36:26.180
– to thank everybody for, you know, listening to

1107
00:36:26.180 –> 00:36:27.940
– my story and listening to this episode. You

1108
00:36:27.940 –> 00:36:30.675
– know, there’s something special about sharing your story

1109
00:36:30.675 –> 00:36:32.914
– and having it be heard. And I just

1110
00:36:32.914 –> 00:36:35.075
– want to empathize a little bit with, you

1111
00:36:35.075 –> 00:36:36.855
– know, the men listening to this.

1112
00:36:37.474 –> 00:36:39.494
– We can’t share this story publicly,

1113
00:36:39.795 –> 00:36:41.255
– right? There’s still consequences

1114
00:36:41.875 –> 00:36:43.779
– as it stands to this day. You know,

1115
00:36:43.779 –> 00:36:45.799
– unlike substance addiction where

1116
00:36:46.259 –> 00:36:48.659
– you collect your twelve month chip and you

1117
00:36:48.659 –> 00:36:51.940
– announce on Facebook that you’re one year sober,

1118
00:36:51.940 –> 00:36:53.699
– you know, you’re going to be showered with

1119
00:36:53.699 –> 00:36:54.199
– compliments

1120
00:36:54.579 –> 00:36:56.759
– and encouragement and celebrated.

1121
00:36:57.465 –> 00:36:59.485
– If you go online and tell people that

1122
00:36:59.545 –> 00:37:01.485
– you were cheating on your wife

1123
00:37:01.864 –> 00:37:04.125
– habitually, you know, over and over again compulsively

1124
00:37:04.425 –> 00:37:06.425
– in a in a very compulsive and or

1125
00:37:06.425 –> 00:37:08.505
– addictive fashion, and then you say, Hey, I

1126
00:37:08.505 –> 00:37:10.744
– stopped for a year. Yeah. You’re not gonna

1127
00:37:10.744 –> 00:37:12.045
– be met with grace.

1128
00:37:12.440 –> 00:37:13.900
– There’s not gonna be the same reaction.

1129
00:37:14.360 –> 00:37:16.680
– And that saddens me. You know, it saddens

1130
00:37:16.680 –> 00:37:17.579
– me that we

1131
00:37:18.039 –> 00:37:19.420
– have to suffer in silence.

1132
00:37:19.720 –> 00:37:22.140
– It saddens me that we aren’t allowed

1133
00:37:22.599 –> 00:37:23.579
– to have the problem

1134
00:37:23.960 –> 00:37:26.275
– that we have. And I just want everybody

1135
00:37:26.275 –> 00:37:28.295
– listening to this to sit with that.

1136
00:37:28.594 –> 00:37:30.855
– In my opinion, there’s nothing more painful

1137
00:37:31.474 –> 00:37:33.715
– than having a problem that you are not

1138
00:37:33.715 –> 00:37:34.614
– allowed to have.

1139
00:37:35.155 –> 00:37:37.574
– Truly, it is one of the most shameful,

1140
00:37:38.035 –> 00:37:38.535
– lonely,

1141
00:37:39.140 –> 00:37:41.239
– and isolating feelings there is. And

1142
00:37:41.539 –> 00:37:43.140
– I want to empathize with all of the

1143
00:37:43.140 –> 00:37:45.539
– guys. I’m not asking you to share your

1144
00:37:45.539 –> 00:37:48.099
– story. It’s not safe. You know, most most

1145
00:37:48.099 –> 00:37:49.940
– people are not safe to share this story

1146
00:37:49.940 –> 00:37:51.960
– with. But I want you to know that

1147
00:37:52.224 –> 00:37:53.204
– you’re not alone.

1148
00:37:53.505 –> 00:37:55.045
– There’s nothing wrong with you.

1149
00:37:55.425 –> 00:37:57.425
– Okay? You’re just doing the best you can

1150
00:37:57.425 –> 00:37:59.444
– just like everybody else. And unfortunately,

1151
00:37:59.824 –> 00:38:01.605
– you know, our brain decided to

1152
00:38:01.905 –> 00:38:04.625
– latch onto, again, a problem that causes a

1153
00:38:04.625 –> 00:38:05.525
– ton of disruption,

1154
00:38:06.079 –> 00:38:07.679
– not only in our lives, but in the

1155
00:38:07.679 –> 00:38:10.019
– lives of everybody around us and, and unfortunately,

1156
00:38:10.559 –> 00:38:12.400
– quite often the lives of the people we

1157
00:38:12.400 –> 00:38:14.639
– love the most. So you’re not alone. And

1158
00:38:14.639 –> 00:38:16.719
– I’m sorry that this has affected you. And

1159
00:38:16.719 –> 00:38:18.239
– to the wives who listen to this, thank

1160
00:38:18.239 –> 00:38:19.755
– you for listening to my story.

1161
00:38:20.234 –> 00:38:22.875
– I appreciate all the episodes that the betrayed

1162
00:38:22.875 –> 00:38:25.295
– partners listened to in their attempt to understand

1163
00:38:25.594 –> 00:38:27.454
– what this is like. Because again,

1164
00:38:27.755 –> 00:38:30.554
– a couple can’t heal from this alone, right?

1165
00:38:30.554 –> 00:38:32.630
– This is a two way thing, right? He

1166
00:38:32.630 –> 00:38:33.989
– can do his recovery work, but he can’t

1167
00:38:33.989 –> 00:38:35.430
– do it alone and the marriage can’t heal

1168
00:38:35.430 –> 00:38:37.289
– alone. So God bless you for

1169
00:38:37.670 –> 00:38:39.849
– giving your your husbands another chance.

1170
00:38:40.390 –> 00:38:42.309
– I know we don’t deserve it, but in

1171
00:38:42.309 –> 00:38:43.989
– the end, you know, we’re all just trying

1172
00:38:43.989 –> 00:38:45.829
– the best we can and leaning in with

1173
00:38:45.829 –> 00:38:47.974
– everything that we’ve got. And, again, we don’t

1174
00:38:47.974 –> 00:38:50.775
– deserve your grace, but we’re very, very, very

1175
00:38:50.775 –> 00:38:52.855
– appreciative of the second chance that we’ve been

1176
00:38:52.855 –> 00:38:53.355
– given.

1177
00:38:54.215 –> 00:38:56.375
– Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

1178
00:38:56.375 –> 00:38:58.135
– are a high achiever of the sex addiction

1179
00:38:58.135 –> 00:38:59.735
– and you’re looking for a recovery group full

1180
00:38:59.735 –> 00:39:02.950
– of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

1181
00:39:02.950 –> 00:39:05.750
– We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1182
00:39:05.750 –> 00:39:06.969
– using four day retreats,

1183
00:39:07.349 –> 00:39:10.150
– weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

1184
00:39:10.150 –> 00:39:12.390
– If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

1185
00:39:12.390 –> 00:39:14.309
– save your marriage, go to our website and

1186
00:39:14.309 –> 00:39:15.289
– fill out our application.

1187
00:39:15.590 –> 00:39:17.050
– If you enjoyed this episode,

1188
00:39:17.375 –> 00:39:18.974
– please pass it along to a friend in

1189
00:39:18.974 –> 00:39:20.974
– recovery who would benefit from listening. It is

1190
00:39:20.974 –> 00:39:22.734
– my mission to get this information out to

1191
00:39:22.734 –> 00:39:25.135
– as many high achievers as possible, and I

1192
00:39:25.135 –> 00:39:26.594
– can’t do it without your help.