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– Going back to the whole safety thing and

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– trust. You have to have safety to even

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– get close to having any kind of trust

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– back. But underneath safety is

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– empathy

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– and transparency

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– and being honest and transparent.

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– And even though she may come across

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– as you’re just an asshole, I can’t believe

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– this, is that I thought it was an

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– addiction. I have had some women that’ll even

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– say, I was hoping it was just an

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– addiction.

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– But, no, this is an integrity

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– disorder. And so

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– being transparent about your past, even though

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– she may seem angry,

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– trust me, it’s helping her. Her hippocampus, which

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– is the memory center of her brain, has

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– literally shrunk. It has shrunk.

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– And the way we heal that, because you

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– can reverse the effects of that,

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– but the way we heal it is through

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– transparency,

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– is through filling in the blanks of what

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– she thought she had and didn’t have.

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– You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

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– for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

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– This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

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– recovery

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– principles specifically to the mindset of the high

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– achiever. I’m your host, Roland Cochran, founder of

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– The Successful Addict, a recovery group for high

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– achieving men struggling with sex and porn addiction.

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– For more information about joining our group or

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– attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

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– And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

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– I don’t feel like you’re doing enough in

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– recovery.

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– This is a common question that wives will

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– bring up to their husbands. But what do

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– they actually mean when they ask this? And

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– how are you supposed to answer it? Are

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– you doing enough?

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– What is she actually looking for? That’s what

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– we talk about in this episode.

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– Are you in good recovery? You need to

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– be trying harder.

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– Man, nothing more frustrating than hearing that, Tiffany.

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– I mean, it is it is incredibly frustrating

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– for these guys, especially when you’re like doing

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– in the beginning, right? You know, fifteen hours

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– of workbooks, meetings. I mean, it’s just like,

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– Oh my gosh, what do you want me

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– to do? Quit my job and become a

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– full time recovery guy? So, Tiffany Kaminsky,

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– is that how I say your last name?

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– Yeah. I’ve never said your last name before.

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– So Tiffany, you and I have talked about

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– all sorts of stuff. We decided to settle

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– on this topic because, you know, for me,

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– I hear it all the time from these

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– guys. And then for you working with couples

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– and betrayed partners, I’m sure you hear it

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– from both of them. Hey, what is she

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– demanding of me? And then on her end,

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– he’s not in good recovery. And then you

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– happen to have to tease that out and

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– determine, hey, how is So kind of introduce

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– your take on when a betrayed partner is

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– saying a statement like this to a compulsive

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– guy, Talk about can you just frame for

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– the audience what’s going on in her brain?

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– And I would love for you to speak

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– what’s going on in the pathological brain of

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– the compulsive guy. Yeah. You know,

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– this topic, we could literally drag on for

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– four different shows.

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– It’s a huge topic. And I’ll try to

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– kind of condense it a little bit into

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– four different

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– sections

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– and four different reasons it could possibly be

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– why she’s saying this. I also work with

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– you said I work with couples and I

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– work with the betrayed partners.

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– I also work with the betrayers quite a

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– bit. And this is a question

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– I get from them more than anybody. Okay,

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– Tiffany. My wife

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– keeps saying I’m not doing enough,

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– and I don’t know why. And then I

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– asked her what I’m doing or not doing

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– that’s enough.

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– And she says, well, you need to figure

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– that out. It’s not my job to tell

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– you.

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– Oh my gosh. Thank you for bringing that

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– up. I that’s the first question I ask.

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– I go I go, have you asked her

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– what her definition of good recovery is so

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– that you can try to get into it?

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– And they always like, I’m not kidding you.

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– I would say I shouldn’t say always. 90%

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– of the time, they say, I did ask.

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– She said that’s not my job. That’s your

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– job. And I’m like, oh, gosh. Nah.

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– Yes. Because here’s the problem, Tiffany. In my

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– because my group’s pretty darn intense. It’s probably

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– one of the most intense, you know, I

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– demand

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– it’s not a ton of time, but I

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– demand a really high commitment to recovery in

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– my groups. And so in my opinion, I

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– look at these guys and I’m like, I

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– don’t know, man. Looks sure it looks like

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– to me you’re in great recovery. So so

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– speak to us about those four kind of

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– different elements. How can guys wrap their head

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– around around this?

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– Yeah. Yeah. I wanna start kind of backwards

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– Sure. To answer that question.

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– I love to teach. I love to coach.

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– I love to, like, problem solve, and let’s

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– make a plan to get there. And sometimes

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– it’s hard if we start at the very

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– beginning. So let’s just if we can just

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– for a second start at the back of

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– that question,

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– which is,

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– what is she needing? What is she feeling?

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– Where is she at?

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– And

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– a lot of times, these women, it depends

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– on where you’re at in the process. If

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– you’re really in the beginning,

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– they don’t know enough. They’re just kinda trying

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– to figure it out too.

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– Later on in the process,

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– they’ve got it down. A lot of CSATs

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– and FSATs coaches and therapists

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– are betrayed partners because this is their like,

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– this is all they do. They’re obsessed with

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– figuring out the whys.

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– And so it really kinda depends where you’re

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– at. So if if it’s somebody in the

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– beginning, and this is when I when I’m

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– coaching the partners, I’m telling them, listen.

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– He is not gonna have recovery now. You

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– gotta minimize your expectations in the beginning.

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– The very beginning, he’s making a plan. So

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– whatever

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– he is doing for his therapy work, whoever

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– he’s seeing,

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– if he isn’t with somebody who’s formulating a

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– recovery plan with actual,

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– like you’ve said before I’ve heard,

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– measurable

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– goals

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– and how are we gonna get there or

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– what are the problems, what caused me to

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– act out in the way I did, and

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– let’s figure that out. If you don’t have

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– that plan to start with, you’re gonna be

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– floating and then your wife is going to

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– be saying, well, I don’t know what it

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– is, but I know that you’re not doing

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– anything. I know you’re still doing the exact

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– same things you were before.

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– And in those topics, when I get that

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– as a topic,

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– I go straight to the attitudes and behaviors

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– chart. The name of the book is Real

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– Hope True Freedom by Milton Magnus and Marcia

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– Means. Oldie but goodie. Big, thick book, but

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– it pretty much answers everything. And in that

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– book, there is a list

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– of

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– attitudes and behaviors that are indicative

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– of somebody who is active in addiction or

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– active in acting out and attitudes and behaviors

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– of those

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– that are in good recovery. Mhmm. And so

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– I asked her to take a look at

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– it, and I even have it now in

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– a spreadsheet.

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– Where is he at? Given it on a

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– scale of one to 10 where you see

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– it. How do you measure

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– what good recovery looks like? If it’s in

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– the attitudes and behaviors in the beginning

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– and he’s just learning,

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– you might have tense. Yeah. He’s major this.

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– He’s major that. I mean, there’s some examples.

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– Some examples are, you know, if he always

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– has to be right or if he needs

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– to be real

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– when his motivation behind everything is to be

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– a success versus a motivation is to be

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– his best self. Mhmm. Strong desire to be

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– recognized and applauded versus seeks to recognize others

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– accomplishments.

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– Things like that, be hiding behind a facade

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– as opposed to being real around other people.

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– If it’s like scale of one to 10,

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– there are 10 on all of those or

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– a high number, and they’re not gonna have

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– all of them, by the way, but a

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– lot of them, they will. Then the wife,

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– I it gives her some hope to know

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– that, okay. Well,

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– I’m just gonna relax. Let’s see what he’s

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– doing, and let’s see

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– if I’m noticing a change in these attitudes

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– and behaviors. Let’s pause there because I wanna

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– just let the listeners

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– note. Did you guys notice that the list

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– of things that Tiffany just spout off were

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– not how many times did you look at

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– pornography and masturbate? How many times? Like, you

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– know, I think that’s so important because I

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– think the measurement in recovery should be is

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– the pathological thinking, the process addiction,

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– has it changed? Because, again, the sexual stuff

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– is is, you know, that’s the very end.

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– Our actions,

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– I know we judge people so much by

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– how they act. And it always breaks my

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– heart when we do that because to me,

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– actions are are just the end

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– of the whole,

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– you know, all the thought processes, the beliefs

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– about oneself, beliefs about the world, the beliefs

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– about others.

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– And then the actions happen in that environment.

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– So to me, recovery is, has the environment

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– changed? Is there trust of others? Do you

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– rely on yourself and yourself alone

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– to win at life and be happy? Or

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– are you living in harmony with those around

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– you? You know, bigger questions of

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– has the belief system changed? Because I tell

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– everybody, listen, guys with healthy belief systems

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– who value themselves, who value others, who have,

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– they don’t dehumanize

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– themselves and other people. Right? So it’s one

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– of the least system that needs to change.

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– I just wanted to put a note in

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– that as you’re encouraging people to kind of

250
00:08:56.205 –> 00:08:59.004
– look at this list and how healthy is

251
00:08:59.004 –> 00:08:59.585
– my husband.

252
00:09:00.209 –> 00:09:02.309
– Remember, we don’t measure that based off

253
00:09:02.690 –> 00:09:04.610
– of acting out behaviors all alone. Yes. You

254
00:09:04.610 –> 00:09:06.529
– know, obviously, if he’s slipping, relapsing, we need

255
00:09:06.529 –> 00:09:08.209
– to pay attention. But at the same time,

256
00:09:08.209 –> 00:09:09.889
– recovery, I think, would be measured by the

257
00:09:09.889 –> 00:09:11.649
– change in the belief systems, the change in

258
00:09:11.649 –> 00:09:14.014
– self-concept, the change in how we see others

259
00:09:14.014 –> 00:09:15.875
– and what we think they think about us.

260
00:09:15.934 –> 00:09:17.695
– These are the things that drive the behavior.

261
00:09:17.695 –> 00:09:18.514
– Wouldn’t you agree?

262
00:09:19.055 –> 00:09:20.835
– Absolutely. I I think

263
00:09:21.295 –> 00:09:22.754
– there are really

264
00:09:23.215 –> 00:09:25.774
– four big jobs of somebody who’s betrayed their

265
00:09:25.774 –> 00:09:26.274
– partner.

266
00:09:26.600 –> 00:09:29.420
– The first one is obvious, sober. I mean,

267
00:09:29.639 –> 00:09:33.000
– sobriety. That’s easy. Okay. Yeah. Like, out of

268
00:09:33.000 –> 00:09:34.940
– everything recovery is,

269
00:09:35.320 –> 00:09:36.139
– a lot of

270
00:09:36.519 –> 00:09:39.000
– newbies in this think that that’s what it’s

271
00:09:39.000 –> 00:09:41.294
– about, getting sober. And they’ll come to their

272
00:09:41.294 –> 00:09:42.894
– wife and say, but I’m not doing it

273
00:09:42.894 –> 00:09:43.394
– anymore.

274
00:09:43.934 –> 00:09:46.254
– Why it’s been eight months? I haven’t cheated

275
00:09:46.254 –> 00:09:48.014
– on you for eight months. It’s like big

276
00:09:48.014 –> 00:09:50.575
– big big deal. Why are you needing all

277
00:09:50.575 –> 00:09:53.159
– this safety when I haven’t done it? You

278
00:09:53.159 –> 00:09:55.159
– know? So that’s just the first part. And

279
00:09:55.159 –> 00:09:56.759
– I just wanna say, guys, do you guys

280
00:09:56.759 –> 00:09:59.320
– hear how stupid that sounds? Like, like, come

281
00:09:59.320 –> 00:10:01.240
– to your wife and say, like, hey. You

282
00:10:01.240 –> 00:10:02.919
– should trust me and be getting over this

283
00:10:02.919 –> 00:10:05.000
– because I haven’t been looking at porn twice

284
00:10:05.000 –> 00:10:07.065
– a week and masturbating. I haven’t been flirting

285
00:10:07.065 –> 00:10:08.425
– with the women at the gym or at

286
00:10:08.425 –> 00:10:09.085
– the office.

287
00:10:09.465 –> 00:10:10.985
– I haven’t cheated on you or texted any

288
00:10:10.985 –> 00:10:12.504
– of my fair part. Like like, do you

289
00:10:12.504 –> 00:10:14.825
– guys see how dumb that you know, you’re

290
00:10:14.825 –> 00:10:16.264
– saying, hey, I haven’t done any of these

291
00:10:16.264 –> 00:10:18.825
– horribly egregious behaviors, so therefore, you should be

292
00:10:18.825 –> 00:10:20.690
– over it. Guys, that that just doesn’t make

293
00:10:20.690 –> 00:10:23.169
– you sound To get over it. Doesn’t make

294
00:10:23.169 –> 00:10:25.569
– you sound that great. Literally, when I’m working

295
00:10:25.569 –> 00:10:26.629
– with the betrayer,

296
00:10:27.089 –> 00:10:29.089
– I’ll have him say it out loud. Did

297
00:10:29.089 –> 00:10:31.089
– you hear what you just said? Yeah. This

298
00:10:31.089 –> 00:10:32.690
– is what I’ve heard. You can say that

299
00:10:32.690 –> 00:10:34.945
– again. Does that make sense? In any way,

300
00:10:34.945 –> 00:10:36.705
– does that make sense? Oh, okay. No. I

301
00:10:36.705 –> 00:10:38.865
– don’t yeah. That doesn’t make sense. But to

302
00:10:38.865 –> 00:10:40.544
– but to your point, remember, and and I

303
00:10:40.544 –> 00:10:41.745
– I I actually I think this is an

304
00:10:41.745 –> 00:10:43.664
– appropriate place to ask you this. As a

305
00:10:43.664 –> 00:10:46.559
– woman, a married woman, does you know, a

306
00:10:46.559 –> 00:10:48.799
– lot of people, this trust, the safety, where

307
00:10:48.799 –> 00:10:49.919
– does it come back? Where does it come

308
00:10:49.919 –> 00:10:52.000
– back? And I just wanna know how you

309
00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.759
– feel about this. When these guys ask me

310
00:10:53.759 –> 00:10:55.059
– this, I go, you know,

311
00:10:55.519 –> 00:10:58.080
– blind trust is probably never coming back. Not

312
00:10:58.080 –> 00:10:59.455
– just for you, but even if she was

313
00:10:59.455 –> 00:11:00.975
– to get remarried to another man, I don’t

314
00:11:00.975 –> 00:11:03.375
– think she’s ever gonna blindly trust another man

315
00:11:03.375 –> 00:11:06.175
– again after this experience, which is tragic. But

316
00:11:06.175 –> 00:11:08.095
– what I say And then safety. I always

317
00:11:08.095 –> 00:11:09.855
– say, you know, sobriety, you would think that

318
00:11:09.855 –> 00:11:11.295
– that would make her feel safe that you’re

319
00:11:11.295 –> 00:11:12.995
– not doing this stuff. But again,

320
00:11:13.340 –> 00:11:15.019
– her brain never knew you thought you were

321
00:11:15.019 –> 00:11:17.100
– doing it every day. Her brain never thought

322
00:11:17.100 –> 00:11:19.019
– that you could do it one day. Right?

323
00:11:19.019 –> 00:11:21.019
– So again, the safety isn’t the frequency as

324
00:11:21.019 –> 00:11:23.580
– much as is this ever going to happen

325
00:11:23.580 –> 00:11:25.500
– again? Even if that’s 10 from now. So

326
00:11:25.500 –> 00:11:27.044
– I’m curious though, if what I’m about to

327
00:11:27.044 –> 00:11:28.644
– say is accurate, I wanna hear it from

328
00:11:28.644 –> 00:11:31.284
– you. I tell these men, and this is

329
00:11:31.284 –> 00:11:33.764
– my own reflection of my own marriage, where

330
00:11:33.764 –> 00:11:36.184
– my wife started to really start to feel

331
00:11:36.245 –> 00:11:38.884
– safer in, you know, having some measure of

332
00:11:38.884 –> 00:11:39.705
– trust was

333
00:11:40.085 –> 00:11:42.424
– when she felt like I understood

334
00:11:43.370 –> 00:11:45.690
– the process addiction and what got me there

335
00:11:45.690 –> 00:11:48.090
– and then she actually saw me policing those

336
00:11:48.090 –> 00:11:49.850
– things. So it’s funny. Thank you. In the

337
00:11:49.850 –> 00:11:51.370
– beginning, I’m like, see, I’m not doing any

338
00:11:51.370 –> 00:11:53.210
– sexual stuff. But it was funny, right when

339
00:11:53.210 –> 00:11:54.509
– I transitioned into

340
00:11:55.034 –> 00:11:56.174
– policing, you know,

341
00:11:56.634 –> 00:11:58.235
– how am I bragging right now? Am I

342
00:11:58.235 –> 00:12:00.315
– posturing? Am I name dropping and trying to

343
00:12:00.315 –> 00:12:01.995
– let all these guys know how important I

344
00:12:01.995 –> 00:12:03.995
– am and all the fancy people I know?

345
00:12:03.995 –> 00:12:06.394
– Am I sneaking in all the things that

346
00:12:06.394 –> 00:12:08.235
– I own and there is with watch today,

347
00:12:08.235 –> 00:12:10.789
– but, you know, And also, like, when women

348
00:12:10.789 –> 00:12:11.690
– are being objectified,

349
00:12:12.070 –> 00:12:13.669
– do I know even if I’m not doing

350
00:12:13.669 –> 00:12:15.429
– it, do I notice it? Right? You know,

351
00:12:15.429 –> 00:12:17.370
– for example, when I see this the cheerleaders,

352
00:12:17.509 –> 00:12:19.429
– it’s quite interesting to me that we still

353
00:12:19.429 –> 00:12:22.149
– have that in such a progressive Yeah. Oral

354
00:12:22.149 –> 00:12:23.935
– that’s a very kind of archaic, We used

355
00:12:23.935 –> 00:12:25.495
– to cover up their cleavage, now their cleavage

356
00:12:25.495 –> 00:12:27.095
– is not covered. Yeah. They used to wear

357
00:12:27.095 –> 00:12:28.695
– things called spankies, I think is what they

358
00:12:28.695 –> 00:12:30.535
– call it, where they’re almost like shorts. Now

359
00:12:30.535 –> 00:12:32.935
– they’re wearing pink underwear where their butt cracks

360
00:12:32.935 –> 00:12:35.115
– are at. So, to me, it’s quite interesting

361
00:12:35.175 –> 00:12:37.335
– that the camera is going over and filming

362
00:12:37.335 –> 00:12:38.075
– these women

363
00:12:38.399 –> 00:12:41.039
– every eighteen seconds after a big play. Isn’t

364
00:12:41.039 –> 00:12:42.799
– that interesting? So the fact that I am

365
00:12:42.799 –> 00:12:44.980
– noticing that, bringing that up to my wife.

366
00:12:45.199 –> 00:12:46.879
– I wonder what this is doing to the

367
00:12:46.879 –> 00:12:49.679
– mentality of young men having these women on

368
00:12:49.679 –> 00:12:50.339
– the sidelines

369
00:12:50.945 –> 00:12:52.384
– for us to stare at, is this a

370
00:12:52.384 –> 00:12:54.404
– good practice? Why are we still doing this?

371
00:12:54.464 –> 00:12:56.865
– So I’m just curious that where I felt

372
00:12:56.865 –> 00:12:59.985
– like when I started policing my processes that

373
00:12:59.985 –> 00:13:01.664
– were not sexual, just with me being a

374
00:13:01.664 –> 00:13:03.985
– better man and a more like security driven

375
00:13:03.985 –> 00:13:05.924
– man, and then also calling out

376
00:13:06.590 –> 00:13:09.309
– our society’s kind of problematic thinking and these

377
00:13:09.309 –> 00:13:11.230
– things that we don’t really notice that could

378
00:13:11.230 –> 00:13:13.649
– actually be contributing to the objectification of females.

379
00:13:13.790 –> 00:13:15.490
– It was when I got into that fight

380
00:13:15.790 –> 00:13:16.610
– that I

381
00:13:16.990 –> 00:13:18.910
– felt my wife actually start to feel like

382
00:13:18.910 –> 00:13:20.884
– she didn’t have do the policing. Is it

383
00:13:21.044 –> 00:13:22.644
– I’m just curious if I’m right by this.

384
00:13:22.644 –> 00:13:24.324
– Yeah. I I’d like to freeze on this

385
00:13:24.324 –> 00:13:25.764
– topic for a little bit because I will

386
00:13:25.764 –> 00:13:26.504
– tell you

387
00:13:26.964 –> 00:13:28.964
– what I see across the board. I see

388
00:13:28.964 –> 00:13:31.144
– this every day in my practice

389
00:13:31.845 –> 00:13:32.345
– where

390
00:13:32.804 –> 00:13:35.304
– I’ll hear from the betrayed partner.

391
00:13:35.940 –> 00:13:38.419
– Well, he’s not transparent of you know, if

392
00:13:38.419 –> 00:13:40.660
– he’s any different, I wouldn’t know. He’s not

393
00:13:40.660 –> 00:13:43.399
– saying anything. And then I hear from him,

394
00:13:43.540 –> 00:13:44.440
– well, I

395
00:13:44.820 –> 00:13:48.019
– using your example, I noticed these girls are

396
00:13:48.019 –> 00:13:50.340
– being objectified, and it it hurts my heart.

397
00:13:50.340 –> 00:13:52.684
– And I I can’t believe that our society

398
00:13:52.745 –> 00:13:54.904
– is like that. And I’ll say to him,

399
00:13:54.904 –> 00:13:56.584
– have you ever told your wife that? Oh,

400
00:13:56.584 –> 00:13:58.464
– no. I would never say that. I couldn’t

401
00:13:58.584 –> 00:14:00.845
– it might trigger or make make things worse.

402
00:14:01.225 –> 00:14:03.565
– Mhmm. Or they’ll say, I used to be

403
00:14:04.105 –> 00:14:05.404
– the guy that would always

404
00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:07.919
– showboat for net all the women, and I’d

405
00:14:07.919 –> 00:14:09.840
– be the the guy that always cracked the

406
00:14:09.840 –> 00:14:11.600
– jokes, the funny one, to try to get

407
00:14:11.600 –> 00:14:13.840
– their attention. And I used to do that

408
00:14:13.840 –> 00:14:14.660
– all the time,

409
00:14:15.200 –> 00:14:17.440
– but now I’m so careful not to do

410
00:14:17.440 –> 00:14:19.475
– that. That was just part of my

411
00:14:19.855 –> 00:14:22.254
– behavior back then. And I’ll say, have you

412
00:14:22.254 –> 00:14:23.955
– told your wife that? Never.

413
00:14:24.575 –> 00:14:26.254
– No way. I would never say that to

414
00:14:26.254 –> 00:14:29.215
– my wife because then she’s gonna know how

415
00:14:29.215 –> 00:14:30.815
– I used to be. That’s just gonna open

416
00:14:30.815 –> 00:14:32.415
– up, and she’s gonna get triggered, and I’m

417
00:14:32.415 –> 00:14:34.000
– gonna yell that. So can I ask a

418
00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:36.480
– question here? Because I will say something. I

419
00:14:36.480 –> 00:14:38.240
– didn’t really experience this with my wife. I’m

420
00:14:38.240 –> 00:14:39.700
– so blessed. My wife is just,

421
00:14:40.159 –> 00:14:42.000
– you know, as much grace as she could

422
00:14:42.000 –> 00:14:43.600
– find, she was trying to find it for

423
00:14:43.600 –> 00:14:45.759
– me, which I’m just so lucky. Yeah. But

424
00:14:45.759 –> 00:14:46.959
– let me ask you this, and this is

425
00:14:46.959 –> 00:14:48.500
– for the betrayed partners listening.

426
00:14:48.914 –> 00:14:51.394
– What if guys are doing this and it

427
00:14:51.394 –> 00:14:53.554
– is being used against them thrown back in

428
00:14:53.554 –> 00:14:56.054
– their face? Because that’s the thing is introspection

429
00:14:56.355 –> 00:14:58.214
– supposed to be this

430
00:14:58.595 –> 00:15:00.754
– curious thing that you can do as two

431
00:15:00.754 –> 00:15:02.834
– adults. But I will tell you Tiffany, just

432
00:15:02.834 –> 00:15:04.590
– this last week, a guy got off the

433
00:15:05.309 –> 00:15:06.509
– the call. We have this process on our

434
00:15:06.509 –> 00:15:09.149
– calls where we the guys use this formula

435
00:15:09.149 –> 00:15:10.590
– to show the other guys in the groups

436
00:15:10.590 –> 00:15:12.269
– their process addiction and the other guys, they

437
00:15:12.269 –> 00:15:13.790
– can poke holes in it. And and so

438
00:15:13.790 –> 00:15:16.029
– it’s this really enlightening experience of, oh my

439
00:15:16.029 –> 00:15:17.389
– gosh, I can’t remember what I did. How’s

440
00:15:17.389 –> 00:15:19.274
– that? And then anyways, this guy brought all

441
00:15:19.274 –> 00:15:21.034
– that information right off the call because guys

442
00:15:21.034 –> 00:15:22.875
– are always really excited. And then he showed

443
00:15:22.875 –> 00:15:24.394
– it to his wife and it did not

444
00:15:24.394 –> 00:15:26.794
– go well. So you look very excited to

445
00:15:26.794 –> 00:15:28.554
– speak to him. What would you say with

446
00:15:28.554 –> 00:15:29.995
– this? Because I have heard this I don’t

447
00:15:29.995 –> 00:15:31.754
– think it’s super common, but I have heard

448
00:15:31.754 –> 00:15:32.254
– guys

449
00:15:32.559 –> 00:15:34.960
– be introspective and and kinda hard on themselves.

450
00:15:34.960 –> 00:15:36.500
– And then all of a sudden, it backfires.

451
00:15:36.559 –> 00:15:38.800
– This information is used against them. Speak to

452
00:15:38.800 –> 00:15:39.540
– this, please.

453
00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:42.720
– Well, I okay. So I wouldn’t say it

454
00:15:42.720 –> 00:15:44.480
– backfires if you think about it the way

455
00:15:44.480 –> 00:15:47.684
– I’m about to approach this. It actually I

456
00:15:47.684 –> 00:15:49.144
– look at this as an opportunity.

457
00:15:50.084 –> 00:15:50.584
– So

458
00:15:51.044 –> 00:15:52.904
– if she is,

459
00:15:53.284 –> 00:15:55.204
– as you say, and I I don’t I

460
00:15:55.204 –> 00:15:56.644
– can’t think of an example off the top

461
00:15:56.644 –> 00:15:57.764
– of my head, but I’ve heard of this

462
00:15:57.764 –> 00:15:58.500
– happening too,

463
00:15:58.980 –> 00:16:00.740
– where he’s like, yeah. I used to do

464
00:16:00.740 –> 00:16:02.179
– this and this. And she’s like, yeah. You

465
00:16:02.179 –> 00:16:03.480
– did, you big jerk.

466
00:16:04.259 –> 00:16:06.580
– What? You did that? I didn’t know that.

467
00:16:06.580 –> 00:16:08.360
– Oh my gosh. You’re just a pig.

468
00:16:08.740 –> 00:16:10.980
– That kind of thing Yep. Worst case scenario

469
00:16:11.220 –> 00:16:13.195
– Well, it’s true. Would be like just staining

470
00:16:13.815 –> 00:16:15.894
– and Well, on that, that it happened a

471
00:16:15.894 –> 00:16:17.975
– little bit for me because I think, you

472
00:16:17.975 –> 00:16:20.214
– know, it is. It’s scary for these women

473
00:16:20.214 –> 00:16:20.714
– when

474
00:16:21.095 –> 00:16:22.154
– you start to

475
00:16:23.735 –> 00:16:25.334
– Tiffany, we’re we’re trying to get to the

476
00:16:25.334 –> 00:16:27.059
– why behind this. Wouldn’t you agree? Yeah. And

477
00:16:27.220 –> 00:16:28.820
– isn’t that what all the betrayed partners want?

478
00:16:28.820 –> 00:16:30.740
– Yes. Yes. So when I get to the

479
00:16:30.740 –> 00:16:31.240
– why,

480
00:16:32.100 –> 00:16:34.019
– I should be able to tell you if

481
00:16:34.019 –> 00:16:35.620
– the because in my case, what would happen,

482
00:16:35.620 –> 00:16:38.019
– Tiffany, was it started to come out that

483
00:16:38.019 –> 00:16:40.259
– I wasn’t necessarily addicted to this in the

484
00:16:40.259 –> 00:16:42.674
– sense that I probably could I, you know,

485
00:16:42.674 –> 00:16:44.914
– not probably. I could stop having affairs and

486
00:16:44.914 –> 00:16:45.414
– cheating.

487
00:16:46.274 –> 00:16:48.035
– And I wasn’t, like, dying to go to

488
00:16:48.035 –> 00:16:49.554
– the gym and meet a chick and have

489
00:16:49.554 –> 00:16:51.955
– a relationship with her or whatever. So, like,

490
00:16:51.955 –> 00:16:53.715
– it felt like, okay, I actually don’t think

491
00:16:53.715 –> 00:16:55.154
– this is gonna be that hard for me

492
00:16:55.154 –> 00:16:57.129
– to stop. I’m not really addicted to cheating

493
00:16:57.129 –> 00:16:57.949
– and having affairs.

494
00:16:58.329 –> 00:17:00.009
– But then the problem was that we started

495
00:17:00.009 –> 00:17:01.449
– digging out the why. It really started to

496
00:17:01.529 –> 00:17:04.650
– Yeah. That I I just really subscribe to

497
00:17:04.650 –> 00:17:07.049
– masculine successful male culture and my ability to

498
00:17:07.049 –> 00:17:09.764
– conquer and dominate women, to show other men

499
00:17:09.764 –> 00:17:11.365
– the type of women that I’m able to

500
00:17:11.365 –> 00:17:11.865
– conquer.

501
00:17:12.565 –> 00:17:14.024
– Like, so much of it was

502
00:17:14.325 –> 00:17:17.704
– me engaging in this very movie star esque

503
00:17:17.764 –> 00:17:19.444
– culture where I grew up like I was

504
00:17:19.444 –> 00:17:21.444
– bigger than life, and it just made me

505
00:17:21.444 –> 00:17:23.130
– feel good, a lot of my trauma, whatever.

506
00:17:23.210 –> 00:17:24.730
– But here’s the thing, it made me look

507
00:17:24.730 –> 00:17:26.009
– like less and less of an addict. And

508
00:17:26.009 –> 00:17:28.009
– so my wife started just to say, well,

509
00:17:28.009 –> 00:17:30.329
– it sure just looks like you’re an asshole.

510
00:17:30.329 –> 00:17:32.089
– You’re an asshole. Yeah. How do I know

511
00:17:32.089 –> 00:17:34.170
– this is not gonna happen again? So speak

512
00:17:34.170 –> 00:17:36.329
– to that now because now I’m having this

513
00:17:36.329 –> 00:17:36.829
– introspective

514
00:17:37.529 –> 00:17:39.674
– moment of figuring out I don’t wanna be

515
00:17:39.674 –> 00:17:41.934
– an asshole. But all of a sudden now,

516
00:17:42.154 –> 00:17:44.654
– because it’s not as addictive and compulsive,

517
00:17:45.194 –> 00:17:46.954
– she’s now less okay with it. So it’s

518
00:17:46.954 –> 00:17:48.634
– it’s very frustrating for me because I’m just

519
00:17:48.634 –> 00:17:50.234
– trying to figure out why I did all

520
00:17:50.234 –> 00:17:52.654
– this. But now it’s starting to get information.

521
00:17:52.714 –> 00:17:55.410
– Well, crap. I can’t really tell her if

522
00:17:55.410 –> 00:17:58.049
– I’m actually if it’s less addictive and more

523
00:17:58.049 –> 00:17:58.549
– compulsive

524
00:17:58.930 –> 00:18:00.850
– because now she’s not okay with it. So

525
00:18:00.850 –> 00:18:02.850
– talk to me about that because it’s now

526
00:18:02.850 –> 00:18:05.570
– I’m almost having to lie in couples therapy

527
00:18:05.570 –> 00:18:07.250
– and lie to my wife, but be honest

528
00:18:07.250 –> 00:18:09.650
– with my recovery group about my recovery. That’s

529
00:18:09.650 –> 00:18:10.390
– not great.

530
00:18:10.774 –> 00:18:11.434
– Yeah. Yeah.

531
00:18:12.294 –> 00:18:14.615
– So, oh, there’s so much there. Going back

532
00:18:14.615 –> 00:18:16.774
– to the whole safety thing and trust. You

533
00:18:16.774 –> 00:18:19.335
– have to have safety to even get close

534
00:18:19.335 –> 00:18:21.974
– to having any kind of trust back. But

535
00:18:21.974 –> 00:18:23.914
– underneath safety is

536
00:18:24.480 –> 00:18:24.980
– empathy

537
00:18:26.000 –> 00:18:26.819
– and transparency

538
00:18:28.079 –> 00:18:29.539
– and being honest and transparent.

539
00:18:30.240 –> 00:18:33.700
– And even though she may come across as

540
00:18:34.160 –> 00:18:36.160
– you’re just an asshole, I can’t believe this,

541
00:18:36.160 –> 00:18:37.700
– is that I thought it was an addiction.

542
00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:40.194
– I have had some women that’ll even say,

543
00:18:40.194 –> 00:18:42.134
– I was hoping it was just an addiction.

544
00:18:42.595 –> 00:18:45.174
– But no. This is an integrity disorder.

545
00:18:46.674 –> 00:18:47.414
– And so

546
00:18:47.954 –> 00:18:51.095
– being transparent about your past, even though

547
00:18:51.714 –> 00:18:53.014
– she may seem angry,

548
00:18:53.830 –> 00:18:56.630
– trust me it’s helping her. Her hippocampus, which

549
00:18:56.630 –> 00:18:58.490
– is the memory center of her brain,

550
00:18:58.789 –> 00:19:01.130
– has literally shrunk. It has shrunk.

551
00:19:01.750 –> 00:19:04.230
– And the way we heal that, because you

552
00:19:04.230 –> 00:19:06.134
– can reverse the effects of that,

553
00:19:06.615 –> 00:19:08.695
– but the way we heal it is through

554
00:19:08.695 –> 00:19:11.734
– transparency. It’s through filling in the blanks of

555
00:19:11.734 –> 00:19:14.634
– what she thought she had and didn’t have.

556
00:19:14.695 –> 00:19:16.454
– Mhmm. And so you can’t do that if

557
00:19:16.454 –> 00:19:18.695
– you’re not being transparent and honest. So no

558
00:19:18.695 –> 00:19:20.954
– matter what, you have to be honest.

559
00:19:21.259 –> 00:19:22.619
– Did that answer that part of the question?

560
00:19:22.619 –> 00:19:23.980
– It did. It did. What I and what

561
00:19:23.980 –> 00:19:25.420
– I would just say on that too, guys,

562
00:19:25.420 –> 00:19:25.920
– is

563
00:19:26.220 –> 00:19:27.519
– let’s say she does this.

564
00:19:27.900 –> 00:19:29.279
– What I found was

565
00:19:29.660 –> 00:19:31.580
– where it would not go well was when

566
00:19:31.580 –> 00:19:33.900
– I would have a response. I would become

567
00:19:33.900 –> 00:19:36.505
– angry. I wouldn’t attend. I would. Guys, what

568
00:19:36.505 –> 00:19:38.345
– what I did later in recovery is hard

569
00:19:38.345 –> 00:19:40.184
– for me because I’m I’m not the most

570
00:19:40.184 –> 00:19:42.184
– mature when it comes to being attacked and

571
00:19:42.184 –> 00:19:44.184
– accused of things I’ve had to do. Yeah.

572
00:19:44.184 –> 00:19:46.025
– And and we get I work with hundreds

573
00:19:46.025 –> 00:19:47.184
– of men and not Yeah. A lot of

574
00:19:47.184 –> 00:19:48.505
– the like, high achieving men, you know, a

575
00:19:48.505 –> 00:19:50.369
– lot of people think they’re competent and strong.

576
00:19:50.369 –> 00:19:51.730
– I would say a lot of achieving men

577
00:19:51.730 –> 00:19:53.170
– are actually some of the more weak and

578
00:19:53.170 –> 00:19:55.250
– secure people in this country. It’s the reason

579
00:19:55.250 –> 00:19:57.730
– they drive for greatness is as compensation. That

580
00:19:57.730 –> 00:19:59.410
– was certainly my case. I always tell everybody

581
00:19:59.410 –> 00:20:01.890
– every penny I earned was to have people

582
00:20:01.890 –> 00:20:04.515
– think nice things about me. It was not

583
00:20:04.595 –> 00:20:06.355
– because I’m an entrepreneur. It’s because I was

584
00:20:06.355 –> 00:20:08.674
– a little insecure person. But I would say,

585
00:20:08.674 –> 00:20:11.394
– guys, if you just acknowledge, just acknowledge. So

586
00:20:11.394 –> 00:20:13.234
– she says all that and you say, yeah,

587
00:20:13.234 –> 00:20:15.875
– that just acknowledge it. Say, yeah. That does

588
00:20:15.875 –> 00:20:18.035
– sound I can get why that would actually

589
00:20:18.035 –> 00:20:18.775
– make you

590
00:20:19.109 –> 00:20:21.190
– less wanting to work on this because now

591
00:20:21.190 –> 00:20:23.430
– if I’m just a bad person who has

592
00:20:23.430 –> 00:20:24.329
– no integrity,

593
00:20:24.710 –> 00:20:26.230
– yeah, do you wanna stay with the husband

594
00:20:26.230 –> 00:20:27.589
– like that? So, look, guys, beat her to

595
00:20:27.589 –> 00:20:29.029
– the punch. Yeah. Beat her to a bone

596
00:20:29.029 –> 00:20:31.269
– that’s about to say. If you can beat

597
00:20:31.269 –> 00:20:32.170
– her to the punch,

598
00:20:32.664 –> 00:20:35.404
– you’re taking away the power Yeah. Of that

599
00:20:35.545 –> 00:20:36.845
– trigger, of that

600
00:20:37.224 –> 00:20:39.865
– intrusive thought that she’s having about you. If

601
00:20:39.865 –> 00:20:42.585
– you’re admitting it and owning it before she

602
00:20:42.585 –> 00:20:44.585
– has a chance to say, you’re just an

603
00:20:44.585 –> 00:20:45.085
– asshole,

604
00:20:45.384 –> 00:20:47.360
– you say it before her. And one of

605
00:20:47.360 –> 00:20:49.200
– the things that I think can be damaging

606
00:20:49.200 –> 00:20:51.840
– in recovery for the men is they hear

607
00:20:51.840 –> 00:20:52.820
– so much about

608
00:20:53.200 –> 00:20:54.880
– shame is bad, and you can’t say I’m

609
00:20:54.880 –> 00:20:56.240
– not gonna say anything. That was me in

610
00:20:56.240 –> 00:20:58.100
– the past. So that’s all great.

611
00:20:58.480 –> 00:21:00.320
– But you can’t bring that to your wife

612
00:21:00.320 –> 00:21:02.335
– because she’s still stuck in the past. She’s

613
00:21:02.335 –> 00:21:04.095
– still going back to try to figure out

614
00:21:04.095 –> 00:21:05.714
– what the freaking past was.

615
00:21:06.174 –> 00:21:08.894
– So you have to learn yes. You have

616
00:21:08.894 –> 00:21:09.554
– to learn

617
00:21:09.855 –> 00:21:11.694
– how to put on a shame shield, how

618
00:21:11.694 –> 00:21:13.315
– to really give yourself

619
00:21:13.615 –> 00:21:15.535
– a pep talk. I’m not like that anymore.

620
00:21:15.535 –> 00:21:16.434
– That was me.

621
00:21:16.890 –> 00:21:18.570
– Then that’s not me now. But you don’t

622
00:21:18.570 –> 00:21:20.250
– dare say that to your wife. Right? You

623
00:21:20.250 –> 00:21:22.970
– you can’t say that till she’s feeling much

624
00:21:22.970 –> 00:21:23.470
– better.

625
00:21:23.769 –> 00:21:25.529
– You’ve gotta get into the past with her.

626
00:21:25.529 –> 00:21:27.450
– That’s what you have to do. So you

627
00:21:27.450 –> 00:21:29.769
– get in there. You put on your shame

628
00:21:29.769 –> 00:21:31.609
– shield before you get in there, and then

629
00:21:31.609 –> 00:21:34.605
– you you listen. And you get you said

630
00:21:34.605 –> 00:21:36.765
– the word, and I love it. Curiosity. Get

631
00:21:36.765 –> 00:21:37.265
– curious.

632
00:21:37.964 –> 00:21:40.444
– If she’s saying, wow. You were just an

633
00:21:40.444 –> 00:21:40.944
– asshole.

634
00:21:41.244 –> 00:21:43.724
– Yeah. I was. I can’t believe it either.

635
00:21:43.724 –> 00:21:45.849
– I I’m looking back at that. But let

636
00:21:45.849 –> 00:21:47.450
– me tell you that is not who I

637
00:21:47.450 –> 00:21:49.769
– wanna be, and I have a plan to

638
00:21:49.769 –> 00:21:51.389
– where I’m not doing that again.

639
00:21:51.769 –> 00:21:54.089
– As opposed to, I’m not gonna even tell

640
00:21:54.089 –> 00:21:56.109
– her that I was an asshole back then.

641
00:21:56.409 –> 00:21:58.169
– Trust me. She already is gonna figure it

642
00:21:58.169 –> 00:22:00.345
– out if she doesn’t know already. So you

643
00:22:00.345 –> 00:22:02.365
– beating her to the punch and saying,

644
00:22:02.744 –> 00:22:05.384
– yeah. You’re validating that. It just takes so

645
00:22:05.384 –> 00:22:07.464
– much of that power away. And here’s the

646
00:22:07.464 –> 00:22:09.724
– magic of it that I’ve noticed.

647
00:22:10.265 –> 00:22:12.105
– When you do that, when the husband does

648
00:22:12.105 –> 00:22:14.509
– that once and there’s that verbal

649
00:22:15.049 –> 00:22:16.809
– attack, shame bomb that goes up in his

650
00:22:16.809 –> 00:22:18.190
– face and he wasn’t expecting,

651
00:22:18.809 –> 00:22:21.390
– it backfires as you said. That happens,

652
00:22:22.009 –> 00:22:23.950
– and he’s still able to go

653
00:22:24.570 –> 00:22:25.950
– use it as an opportunity

654
00:22:26.984 –> 00:22:28.744
– to show her that he’s really all in

655
00:22:28.744 –> 00:22:31.144
– this and he can be empathetic, which also

656
00:22:31.144 –> 00:22:31.964
– adds safety,

657
00:22:32.585 –> 00:22:33.085
– then

658
00:22:33.545 –> 00:22:35.944
– he notices that, okay, that that kinda did

659
00:22:35.944 –> 00:22:37.944
– calm things down a little bit or maybe

660
00:22:37.944 –> 00:22:39.545
– not at first. After she had a chance

661
00:22:39.545 –> 00:22:41.244
– to ground herself, I feel better.

662
00:22:41.730 –> 00:22:45.009
– The next time that happens and you lean

663
00:22:45.009 –> 00:22:46.690
– in again, you’re brave, you put on the

664
00:22:46.690 –> 00:22:48.849
– shame shield, you do it again, you’re gonna

665
00:22:48.849 –> 00:22:50.309
– have less and less of a reaction.

666
00:22:50.849 –> 00:22:53.730
– And then your brain, as the person that

667
00:22:53.730 –> 00:22:54.549
– hurt her,

668
00:22:55.005 –> 00:22:57.884
– is also your trauma responses going on freeze,

669
00:22:57.884 –> 00:22:59.904
– flee, or fight when she’s screaming at you.

670
00:23:00.285 –> 00:23:01.105
– But, eventually,

671
00:23:01.404 –> 00:23:03.505
– your brain starts to learn, oh,

672
00:23:03.805 –> 00:23:06.045
– I’ve been here before. I’ve done this. That’s

673
00:23:06.045 –> 00:23:08.765
– okay. You get thicker skin. You know, okay.

674
00:23:08.765 –> 00:23:10.559
– I know how this is gonna turn out.

675
00:23:10.640 –> 00:23:11.620
– You do it repetitively.

676
00:23:12.480 –> 00:23:12.980
– Consistency

677
00:23:13.759 –> 00:23:16.480
– is the key across the board. This is

678
00:23:16.480 –> 00:23:18.259
– what I hear when I hear

679
00:23:18.559 –> 00:23:20.559
– he’s not doing enough. He’s not doing enough.

680
00:23:20.559 –> 00:23:22.320
– And I really try to get to the

681
00:23:22.320 –> 00:23:24.404
– bottom of it. It’s that consistency.

682
00:23:24.945 –> 00:23:27.664
– It’s always leaning and not just every once

683
00:23:27.664 –> 00:23:29.744
– in a while. It’s not being afraid to

684
00:23:29.744 –> 00:23:31.345
– be in there and hold her heart when

685
00:23:31.345 –> 00:23:31.845
– she’s

686
00:23:32.144 –> 00:23:34.144
– hurting. And, yeah, I might get hurt, but

687
00:23:34.144 –> 00:23:36.305
– I’m gonna set my ego aside. This isn’t

688
00:23:36.305 –> 00:23:38.410
– about me. This is about her. This is

689
00:23:38.410 –> 00:23:40.570
– about her heart. This is about her. She’s

690
00:23:40.570 –> 00:23:42.830
– in pain. Being able to look at her

691
00:23:43.289 –> 00:23:45.850
– like she’s in pain without going, oh, dear

692
00:23:45.850 –> 00:23:47.529
– god. I was the one that caused it.

693
00:23:47.529 –> 00:23:49.815
– This is too uncomfortable. I don’t like it.

694
00:23:49.894 –> 00:23:51.335
– I’m gonna go the other way. My brain

695
00:23:51.335 –> 00:23:53.335
– doesn’t like it. Your brain is doing its

696
00:23:53.335 –> 00:23:54.774
– job, by the way. It’s trying to keep

697
00:23:54.774 –> 00:23:55.434
– you safe.

698
00:23:55.734 –> 00:23:57.434
– You just have to train your brain

699
00:23:58.214 –> 00:24:00.694
– what is good and what isn’t as far

700
00:24:00.694 –> 00:24:02.855
– as safety. You can give your brain safety

701
00:24:02.855 –> 00:24:04.154
– in other areas,

702
00:24:04.519 –> 00:24:06.940
– but you gotta grow some thick skin. Recovery

703
00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:09.799
– is hard. It’s not a I say I

704
00:24:09.799 –> 00:24:11.240
– like to say it’s not a sprint. It’s

705
00:24:11.240 –> 00:24:12.839
– a marathon as we always hear. But it’s

706
00:24:12.839 –> 00:24:15.159
– not even a marathon because there is no

707
00:24:15.159 –> 00:24:17.179
– finish line. Yeah. Correct. You’re constantly

708
00:24:17.480 –> 00:24:17.980
– working

709
00:24:18.335 –> 00:24:19.394
– to be a better person.

710
00:24:20.015 –> 00:24:22.015
– And yeah. I mean, I could go I

711
00:24:22.015 –> 00:24:23.775
– could One where again. We could do so

712
00:24:23.775 –> 00:24:25.535
– many different shows on these topics. On what

713
00:24:25.535 –> 00:24:27.375
– you said too is so the guys listening

714
00:24:27.375 –> 00:24:28.974
– to this. Right? Like, how do you get

715
00:24:28.974 –> 00:24:30.494
– to more of a healthier place? What you

716
00:24:30.494 –> 00:24:33.019
– have to understand is these ladies have a

717
00:24:33.019 –> 00:24:36.240
– pretty strong case. I know to the guy,

718
00:24:36.380 –> 00:24:37.839
– we feel like we’re being

719
00:24:38.299 –> 00:24:41.420
– unfairly accused of being something we’re not. That

720
00:24:41.420 –> 00:24:43.740
– is what that’s how every guy feels is

721
00:24:43.740 –> 00:24:46.079
– you’re accusing me of being a pervert,

722
00:24:46.575 –> 00:24:47.075
– being

723
00:24:47.774 –> 00:24:49.954
– a no self control, a pleasure seeking,

724
00:24:50.255 –> 00:24:53.134
– short sighted, selfish, narcissist, like, and so Oh,

725
00:24:53.134 –> 00:24:55.054
– they say all those things. Well, and and

726
00:24:55.054 –> 00:24:56.494
– that’s and so we feel not only do

727
00:24:56.494 –> 00:24:57.934
– we feel like we’re being accused of it,

728
00:24:57.934 –> 00:25:00.880
– we feel like we’re being They’re actively fighting

729
00:25:00.940 –> 00:25:02.380
– to put us in that box. So I

730
00:25:02.380 –> 00:25:04.859
– just want guys to understand, your desire to

731
00:25:04.859 –> 00:25:05.839
– lie and defend,

732
00:25:06.299 –> 00:25:08.299
– I get it. I empathize with you guys

733
00:25:08.299 –> 00:25:10.859
– because I was there. I felt like, you

734
00:25:10.859 –> 00:25:13.099
– know, oftentimes even too that the therapy team

735
00:25:13.099 –> 00:25:15.384
– was trying to call me something. And again,

736
00:25:15.384 –> 00:25:16.365
– guys, that’s not

737
00:25:16.744 –> 00:25:18.904
– necessarily what’s really happening. Now I’m not saying

738
00:25:18.904 –> 00:25:20.585
– that that you could have bad help out

739
00:25:20.585 –> 00:25:22.265
– there. You know, there’s there are some people

740
00:25:22.265 –> 00:25:24.365
– who are not trained in this who definitely

741
00:25:24.505 –> 00:25:26.694
– pathologize it and do it unfortunately.

742
00:25:27.299 –> 00:25:29.220
– You know, I would encourage everybody, you know,

743
00:25:29.220 –> 00:25:32.019
– try to find somebody APSAT trained, CSAT trained,

744
00:25:32.019 –> 00:25:34.100
– you know, have somebody familiar with this. This

745
00:25:34.100 –> 00:25:35.619
– is not a you know, just go to

746
00:25:35.619 –> 00:25:37.700
– your friend’s therapist for this thing. This is

747
00:25:37.700 –> 00:25:39.380
– this is needs to know how to approach

748
00:25:39.380 –> 00:25:41.434
– it. We’re your pastor. Yeah.

749
00:25:41.894 –> 00:25:44.054
– Right. I mean, I get I get so

750
00:25:44.054 –> 00:25:46.075
– many people that have therapy trauma.

751
00:25:47.095 –> 00:25:49.095
– Oh, from that. Yeah. Just don’t make it

752
00:25:49.095 –> 00:25:51.615
– because they’ve had terrible advice. There’s not a

753
00:25:51.615 –> 00:25:52.855
– lot of people. Yeah. And and they and

754
00:25:52.855 –> 00:25:54.779
– they’re trying to help. Again, I don’t blame

755
00:25:54.779 –> 00:25:56.619
– them. It’s just this is If you haven’t

756
00:25:56.619 –> 00:25:58.859
– lived this and then been trained on what

757
00:25:58.859 –> 00:26:00.619
– we know about how to navigate it, I

758
00:26:00.619 –> 00:26:02.940
– mean, it’s just a very specialized area. There’s

759
00:26:02.940 –> 00:26:04.220
– just no other way to say it. But

760
00:26:04.220 –> 00:26:06.399
– what I was gonna say was, guys, remember,

761
00:26:06.539 –> 00:26:08.539
– her case is pretty strong. She’s taking

762
00:26:09.304 –> 00:26:10.744
– You know, so let’s say you’ve been doing

763
00:26:10.744 –> 00:26:13.704
– this for eight years, maybe twenty years, maybe

764
00:26:13.704 –> 00:26:15.704
– thirty years. There’s people out there who’ve been

765
00:26:15.704 –> 00:26:18.105
– doing it for forty years. And she discovers

766
00:26:18.105 –> 00:26:19.304
– this. Keep it Keep in mind, her case

767
00:26:19.304 –> 00:26:20.125
– is pretty strong.

768
00:26:20.505 –> 00:26:22.684
– If the first time you acted out was

769
00:26:22.904 –> 00:26:24.365
– thirty years ago,

770
00:26:24.690 –> 00:26:26.049
– and before you guys had kids, and then

771
00:26:26.049 –> 00:26:27.409
– you’ve had all these kids and it’s just

772
00:26:27.409 –> 00:26:29.509
– been getting worse. Like, her case is,

773
00:26:30.130 –> 00:26:32.529
– like, why should I ever trust you? You

774
00:26:32.529 –> 00:26:35.269
– were never you were never telling the truth

775
00:26:35.329 –> 00:26:35.829
– ever.

776
00:26:36.130 –> 00:26:38.414
– Ever, ever, ever tell the Right? So she’s

777
00:26:38.414 –> 00:26:39.855
– got a pretty strong case. So what I

778
00:26:39.855 –> 00:26:42.515
– would encourage the guys to tap into empathy,

779
00:26:43.054 –> 00:26:44.734
– it can be hard sometimes and some of

780
00:26:44.734 –> 00:26:46.355
– those empathetic statements feel

781
00:26:46.894 –> 00:26:48.575
– unauthentic and they can be hard to get

782
00:26:48.575 –> 00:26:49.960
– out of your mouth. I don’t like saying

783
00:26:49.960 –> 00:26:51.480
– anything to my wife that I don’t believe.

784
00:26:51.480 –> 00:26:53.080
– And so some of those empathy statements are

785
00:26:53.080 –> 00:26:54.840
– really hard because it just I don’t talk

786
00:26:54.840 –> 00:26:56.519
– like that. I hear that from so many

787
00:26:56.519 –> 00:26:58.279
– high achieving men. Like I would not I

788
00:26:58.279 –> 00:27:00.680
– don’t I do not talk like that. And

789
00:27:00.680 –> 00:27:02.920
– so they say it just feels inauthentic to

790
00:27:02.920 –> 00:27:05.294
– say an empathy statement. So guys, try this

791
00:27:05.294 –> 00:27:06.434
– because this is the one.

792
00:27:07.294 –> 00:27:09.315
– Remember, she’s got a strong case,

793
00:27:09.774 –> 00:27:12.335
– does she not? So that’s why that’s empathy

794
00:27:12.335 –> 00:27:13.154
– too, is

795
00:27:13.534 –> 00:27:16.095
– understanding she’s got the world’s strongest case. And

796
00:27:16.095 –> 00:27:17.454
– I wanna say one thing that we let’s

797
00:27:17.454 –> 00:27:19.450
– guys forget. And the only reason I’ve been

798
00:27:19.450 –> 00:27:21.529
– seeing this is I have six groups of

799
00:27:21.529 –> 00:27:23.769
– 10 guys is what I manage. At this

800
00:27:23.769 –> 00:27:25.450
– moment, I think I have three guys who

801
00:27:25.450 –> 00:27:27.470
– came clean and didn’t get caught.

802
00:27:27.849 –> 00:27:29.369
– I will tell you guys, those guys who

803
00:27:29.369 –> 00:27:30.109
– came clean.

804
00:27:30.664 –> 00:27:33.544
– Oh my gosh, their recovery is accelerating like

805
00:27:33.544 –> 00:27:35.865
– rapidly. I would say at year one, they’re

806
00:27:35.865 –> 00:27:38.105
– at where everybody else who was caught is

807
00:27:38.105 –> 00:27:38.605
– five.

808
00:27:39.304 –> 00:27:41.304
– So in twelve months, these guys are already

809
00:27:41.304 –> 00:27:42.765
– in something that resembles

810
00:27:43.450 –> 00:27:45.450
– what looks like a healthy marriage with two

811
00:27:45.450 –> 00:27:48.029
– healthy adults trying to navigate a path forward.

812
00:27:48.170 –> 00:27:50.490
– Guys, if you get caught, again, just kind

813
00:27:50.490 –> 00:27:52.730
– of empathizing with your wife’s case against you

814
00:27:52.730 –> 00:27:55.210
– here, in her world, and guys, I’m telling

815
00:27:55.210 –> 00:27:56.490
– you, you try and tell me I’m wrong.

816
00:27:56.490 –> 00:27:58.350
– In her world, her thought is

817
00:27:58.664 –> 00:28:00.045
– you would have done this

818
00:28:00.345 –> 00:28:03.065
– until the end if you didn’t get caught.

819
00:28:03.065 –> 00:28:05.065
– Yes. You would have never stopped. Guys, you

820
00:28:05.065 –> 00:28:06.904
– tell me right now if she’s right or

821
00:28:06.904 –> 00:28:07.404
– wrong.

822
00:28:07.945 –> 00:28:09.865
– Come on, guys. If you tell me she’s

823
00:28:09.865 –> 00:28:12.345
– wrong, I don’t believe it. Like guys, come

824
00:28:12.345 –> 00:28:14.839
– on. We were going to do this unless

825
00:28:14.900 –> 00:28:16.839
– we had to stop. That is the facts.

826
00:28:17.059 –> 00:28:19.779
– So again, her case is you only stopped

827
00:28:19.779 –> 00:28:21.779
– because you got caught. So now she’s wondering

828
00:28:21.779 –> 00:28:23.779
– if that’s the only reason you stop, you

829
00:28:23.779 –> 00:28:25.619
– tell me why I’m safe to stay with

830
00:28:25.619 –> 00:28:28.595
– you. So, guys, that’s empathy. Right? And just

831
00:28:28.595 –> 00:28:30.595
– understand Yeah. Ace against you. Because a lot

832
00:28:30.595 –> 00:28:31.974
– of guys, we’re we’re factual.

833
00:28:32.515 –> 00:28:34.994
– We like hard data and we we prefer

834
00:28:34.994 –> 00:28:36.914
– that. So, guys, cool. Use your little hard

835
00:28:36.914 –> 00:28:39.234
– data facts. Go into her case against you.

836
00:28:39.234 –> 00:28:41.789
– She’s got a really strong case against you.

837
00:28:41.869 –> 00:28:44.430
– And that is empathy is understanding, man, how

838
00:28:44.430 –> 00:28:46.750
– do I combat all this evidence? That is

839
00:28:46.750 –> 00:28:48.109
– empathy. It is just tell her like this

840
00:28:48.109 –> 00:28:49.549
– is I do not know how to make

841
00:28:49.549 –> 00:28:50.369
– you feel safe.

842
00:28:50.750 –> 00:28:52.670
– I have dedicated telling you that I can’t

843
00:28:52.670 –> 00:28:54.365
– tell the truth. And and now I’m just

844
00:28:54.365 –> 00:28:56.365
– magically start today. So, guys, that that is

845
00:28:56.365 –> 00:28:58.365
– empathy. It’s just truly trying to understand the

846
00:28:58.365 –> 00:29:01.244
– impossible situation that these ladies are in. And

847
00:29:01.244 –> 00:29:02.865
– I get it. It’s so scary.

848
00:29:03.244 –> 00:29:05.805
– I I get it. Like, you’re diving head

849
00:29:05.805 –> 00:29:08.285
– first into a war zone, and you’re the

850
00:29:08.285 –> 00:29:10.140
– one that’s getting shot at, and you don’t

851
00:29:10.140 –> 00:29:10.880
– have a weapon.

852
00:29:11.500 –> 00:29:13.980
– Like, you are jiving head to show empathy

853
00:29:13.980 –> 00:29:14.880
– and have that

854
00:29:15.420 –> 00:29:16.640
– honesty and transparency

855
00:29:17.019 –> 00:29:18.799
– about where you really are

856
00:29:19.259 –> 00:29:20.480
– and where you were

857
00:29:21.019 –> 00:29:23.974
– and knowing that she didn’t marry somebody for

858
00:29:23.974 –> 00:29:26.154
– them because she expected perfection.

859
00:29:26.694 –> 00:29:28.054
– I would hate to be married to a

860
00:29:28.054 –> 00:29:28.954
– perfect person.

861
00:29:29.255 –> 00:29:31.734
– I wouldn’t survive it. I don’t want a

862
00:29:31.734 –> 00:29:34.075
– perfect husband, but I do want a husband

863
00:29:34.294 –> 00:29:36.534
– that gets me and is willing to help

864
00:29:36.534 –> 00:29:37.515
– me in my pain.

865
00:29:38.140 –> 00:29:40.880
– And in order to do that, unfortunately,

866
00:29:41.980 –> 00:29:43.740
– since my husband is the one that hurt

867
00:29:43.740 –> 00:29:45.119
– me, he’s gotta learn

868
00:29:45.579 –> 00:29:48.079
– how to be honest and vulnerable

869
00:29:48.460 –> 00:29:49.759
– and etcetera etcetera.

870
00:29:50.299 –> 00:29:51.200
– If I don’t

871
00:29:51.704 –> 00:29:54.265
– see that, if he’s not initiating check ins

872
00:29:54.265 –> 00:29:56.204
– with me and being curious about me,

873
00:29:56.585 –> 00:29:58.845
– if he’s not coming to be being transparent

874
00:29:58.984 –> 00:30:00.044
– about his struggles,

875
00:30:00.585 –> 00:30:02.265
– and he’s like, nope. I’m great. I’m doing

876
00:30:02.265 –> 00:30:04.424
– great. I don’t have any struggles. Oh, yeah.

877
00:30:04.424 –> 00:30:07.089
– Right. Don’t say that. You maybe not with

878
00:30:07.089 –> 00:30:09.250
– women every day, but there are struggles in

879
00:30:09.250 –> 00:30:09.990
– your life

880
00:30:10.369 –> 00:30:11.349
– regarding insecurities,

881
00:30:11.809 –> 00:30:13.890
– regarding need to be, you know, I here

882
00:30:13.890 –> 00:30:15.890
– I am. I went to go get my

883
00:30:15.890 –> 00:30:17.809
– Rolex and put it on today because I

884
00:30:17.809 –> 00:30:19.765
– knew I was going into this, you know,

885
00:30:19.765 –> 00:30:22.164
– fancy party. I want to show you know

886
00:30:22.164 –> 00:30:24.484
– what I mean? So if you’re not owning

887
00:30:24.484 –> 00:30:27.204
– that kind of stuff, she’s going to assume.

888
00:30:27.204 –> 00:30:28.585
– She’s gonna see it anyway.

889
00:30:29.045 –> 00:30:31.924
– Trust me. Women have amazing intuition. They see

890
00:30:31.924 –> 00:30:33.009
– it. They see it. I don’t even I

891
00:30:33.009 –> 00:30:34.130
– don’t even know if you guys are from

892
00:30:34.210 –> 00:30:35.970
– you guys are definitely from Venus with these

893
00:30:35.970 –> 00:30:38.529
– superpowers. Oh, superpowers. I’m telling you, we see

894
00:30:38.529 –> 00:30:40.309
– it. We know it. We feel it.

895
00:30:41.009 –> 00:30:43.509
– So we know already. And

896
00:30:43.890 –> 00:30:45.201
– if you’re beating us to the punch with

897
00:30:45.201 –> 00:30:45.287
– ownership and you’re being transparent, you’re halfway there.

898
00:30:45.287 –> 00:30:45.829
– That’s one of the biggest

899
00:30:46.369 –> 00:30:46.869
– reasons

900
00:30:49.244 –> 00:30:51.404
– transparent, you’re halfway there. That’s one of the

901
00:30:51.404 –> 00:30:53.184
– biggest reasons why we

902
00:30:53.805 –> 00:30:55.265
– keep hearing he’s not doing enough.

903
00:30:55.724 –> 00:30:57.884
– Maybe they don’t even know. They’re just looking

904
00:30:57.884 –> 00:30:58.545
– for something

905
00:30:59.005 –> 00:31:01.759
– more than box checking. Well, I’m going to

906
00:31:01.759 –> 00:31:03.919
– group. I’m going to this. I’m doing this.

907
00:31:03.919 –> 00:31:05.679
– I’m do read this book. I did well,

908
00:31:05.679 –> 00:31:07.359
– what are you learning from group? What are

909
00:31:07.359 –> 00:31:09.519
– you learning about yourself? How are you doing

910
00:31:09.519 –> 00:31:11.519
– in your recovery plan? Have you looked at

911
00:31:11.519 –> 00:31:13.724
– my safety plan lately? Have you you know,

912
00:31:13.964 –> 00:31:16.044
– all those things are super important when it

913
00:31:16.044 –> 00:31:16.544
– comes

914
00:31:17.005 –> 00:31:18.845
– to her being able to feel like you

915
00:31:18.845 –> 00:31:21.005
– are doing enough because if you’re leaving her

916
00:31:21.005 –> 00:31:23.565
– in the dark, yeah, she’s gonna assume it.

917
00:31:23.565 –> 00:31:25.164
– And then the other thing are they attitudes

918
00:31:25.164 –> 00:31:26.400
– and behaviors changing.

919
00:31:26.779 –> 00:31:28.619
– And if she’s with an AbsaTS or somebody

920
00:31:28.619 –> 00:31:30.700
– who’s trained in this, they can kind of

921
00:31:30.700 –> 00:31:32.460
– hold her hand and go, well, let’s let’s

922
00:31:32.460 –> 00:31:35.099
– look at this list or however they measure

923
00:31:35.099 –> 00:31:37.019
– it. So everybody measures differently. I like the

924
00:31:37.019 –> 00:31:38.904
– list because I’m a list girl. But then

925
00:31:38.904 –> 00:31:40.224
– I know a lot of the guys are

926
00:31:40.345 –> 00:31:41.805
– they like to look at

927
00:31:42.265 –> 00:31:44.265
– lists. They like to check all of that.

928
00:31:44.265 –> 00:31:45.785
– Thank you. So thank you for taking us

929
00:31:45.785 –> 00:31:48.105
– back on topic here because Yeah. Again, everyone

930
00:31:48.105 –> 00:31:49.865
– listening is like, come on, Tiffany and Roland.

931
00:31:49.865 –> 00:31:51.704
– Tell us, how do I answer this question

932
00:31:51.704 –> 00:31:53.819
– to my wife and for the wives too?

933
00:31:53.819 –> 00:31:56.059
– They’re all probably wondering, is it fair for

934
00:31:56.059 –> 00:31:57.039
– me to say this?

935
00:31:57.339 –> 00:31:59.259
– I’d love just to speak directly to both

936
00:31:59.259 –> 00:32:00.859
– of those. So you you said you had

937
00:32:00.859 –> 00:32:04.220
– four Yeah. Or elements. I didn’t wanna know.

938
00:32:04.220 –> 00:32:05.980
– Yeah. Yeah. So can you Let me just

939
00:32:05.980 –> 00:32:08.380
– drop them down. Okay? So you if you’re

940
00:32:08.380 –> 00:32:10.014
– taking notes, the first

941
00:32:10.394 –> 00:32:11.835
– one well, you haven’t really talked too much

942
00:32:11.835 –> 00:32:13.034
– about. I’m gonna save that one for the

943
00:32:13.034 –> 00:32:14.734
– last. Attitudes and behaviors,

944
00:32:15.274 –> 00:32:16.335
– they you

945
00:32:16.714 –> 00:32:18.974
– know, you’re working on your attitudes and behaviors.

946
00:32:19.274 –> 00:32:21.034
– You’re looking at the list. You’re asking your

947
00:32:21.034 –> 00:32:22.954
– wife, where am I at? You’re taking those

948
00:32:22.954 –> 00:32:25.134
– to your specialist or to your group or

949
00:32:25.250 –> 00:32:27.109
– whatever, and you’re working on

950
00:32:27.410 –> 00:32:28.230
– those things.

951
00:32:28.609 –> 00:32:31.970
– Matching that up with your recovery plan. Are

952
00:32:31.970 –> 00:32:33.730
– some of these things on my recovery plan?

953
00:32:33.730 –> 00:32:35.730
– Because if they’re not, my wife is noticing

954
00:32:35.730 –> 00:32:37.964
– it. That’s something I need to work on.

955
00:32:38.044 –> 00:32:39.644
– So that will be a Did everybody hear

956
00:32:39.644 –> 00:32:41.644
– that? Attitudes and like, I one of my

957
00:32:41.644 –> 00:32:43.325
– clients right now, he’s him and his wife

958
00:32:43.325 –> 00:32:46.765
– started a honesty journal. And he just really

959
00:32:46.845 –> 00:32:48.365
– and he keeps it in his back pocket

960
00:32:48.365 –> 00:32:51.740
– with small Amazon has these small back pocket

961
00:32:51.740 –> 00:32:53.659
– journals with small back pocket pens if you

962
00:32:53.659 –> 00:32:55.500
– guys want them. And he is trying to

963
00:32:55.500 –> 00:32:57.339
– just keep track all day and it’s not

964
00:32:57.339 –> 00:32:59.419
– sexual. He’s trying to keep track, like, am

965
00:32:59.419 –> 00:33:02.139
– I lying to myself even in my head?

966
00:33:02.139 –> 00:33:03.980
– Am I telling myself that this isn’t that

967
00:33:03.980 –> 00:33:06.139
– bad when it actually is worse than I’m

968
00:33:06.619 –> 00:33:08.595
– So So he’s just trying to police how

969
00:33:08.595 –> 00:33:10.055
– much do I bend and manipulate

970
00:33:10.434 –> 00:33:13.475
– my reality for for benefit. So, again, I

971
00:33:13.475 –> 00:33:15.475
– just I hope everybody heard that. Attitudes and

972
00:33:15.475 –> 00:33:15.975
– beliefs.

973
00:33:16.434 –> 00:33:18.434
– Right? The core of all of this. Right?

974
00:33:18.434 –> 00:33:20.535
– And that’s kinda go into it defensive.

975
00:33:20.920 –> 00:33:22.519
– So if you’re going into it and she’s

976
00:33:22.519 –> 00:33:25.000
– like, well, yeah, you’ve got this others owe

977
00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:25.500
– me

978
00:33:25.799 –> 00:33:26.299
– attitude,

979
00:33:26.839 –> 00:33:28.680
– and you’re going in there. No. I don’t.

980
00:33:28.680 –> 00:33:29.339
– You’re defensive.

981
00:33:29.880 –> 00:33:32.220
– Be curious. Ask you can always ask questions.

982
00:33:32.279 –> 00:33:33.559
– Where are you getting that? Can you give

983
00:33:33.559 –> 00:33:34.380
– me some examples?

984
00:33:34.839 –> 00:33:37.065
– Maybe you’re not seeing it. You know? So

985
00:33:37.065 –> 00:33:38.984
– your wife has got a front row seat.

986
00:33:38.984 –> 00:33:40.825
– So Well, Tiffany, so can I can I

987
00:33:40.825 –> 00:33:42.505
– ask a hard question of the of the

988
00:33:42.505 –> 00:33:43.005
– partners?

989
00:33:43.384 –> 00:33:45.544
– Come on. I mean, if you’re gonna come

990
00:33:45.544 –> 00:33:48.105
– at me with something, like, maybe talk to

991
00:33:48.105 –> 00:33:51.690
– your therapist first about Oh, yeah. Why he’s

992
00:33:51.690 –> 00:33:53.529
– not in good recovery. I just the only

993
00:33:53.529 –> 00:33:55.309
– reason I say this ladies is

994
00:33:55.609 –> 00:33:56.670
– it is very

995
00:33:57.289 –> 00:33:58.589
– defeating and dividing

996
00:33:59.369 –> 00:34:01.289
– to ask your husband that. And you guys

997
00:34:01.289 –> 00:34:02.730
– have every right to ask it. I’m not

998
00:34:02.730 –> 00:34:04.170
– saying you don’t have every right to ask

999
00:34:04.170 –> 00:34:06.384
– it. You do. If you genuinely believe he’s

1000
00:34:06.384 –> 00:34:08.545
– not trying as hard as he should and

1001
00:34:08.545 –> 00:34:10.945
– could try and he isn’t in good recovery,

1002
00:34:10.945 –> 00:34:11.684
– that’s okay.

1003
00:34:12.065 –> 00:34:13.925
– Tiffany, shouldn’t they go to their therapist

1004
00:34:14.224 –> 00:34:17.025
– and like maybe write that out? Because it’s

1005
00:34:17.025 –> 00:34:19.760
– very frustrating when you say you’re in bad

1006
00:34:19.760 –> 00:34:21.440
– recovery. I don’t know how. I don’t know

1007
00:34:21.440 –> 00:34:23.859
– why, but I No. It’s just not fair.

1008
00:34:24.400 –> 00:34:26.000
– Guys can only hear that so many times

1009
00:34:26.000 –> 00:34:28.159
– before you know, their final because here’s the

1010
00:34:28.159 –> 00:34:29.619
– thing. The first three times,

1011
00:34:30.079 –> 00:34:32.340
– I wanna know how I can try harder.

1012
00:34:32.744 –> 00:34:35.784
– The fourth time, I’m starting to say, oh,

1013
00:34:35.784 –> 00:34:37.784
– screw off. You know, I’m tired of hearing

1014
00:34:37.784 –> 00:34:39.065
– it. And that’s the problem. And then the

1015
00:34:39.065 –> 00:34:40.984
– fifth time and the sixth time, the seventh

1016
00:34:40.984 –> 00:34:42.824
– time. Now I when you say that, I

1017
00:34:42.824 –> 00:34:44.904
– tune out. I don’t even care. Yeah. And

1018
00:34:44.904 –> 00:34:46.204
– it’s not couple centered.

1019
00:34:46.719 –> 00:34:48.880
– I do get a lot of women that

1020
00:34:48.880 –> 00:34:50.320
– will be like, I I don’t think I

1021
00:34:50.320 –> 00:34:51.680
– should tell him by now. He’s been in

1022
00:34:51.680 –> 00:34:54.079
– recovery long enough. Well and then I push

1023
00:34:54.079 –> 00:34:55.699
– back. You know? You are married.

1024
00:34:56.239 –> 00:34:58.079
– I get that. But you are married. If

1025
00:34:58.079 –> 00:34:59.300
– you wanna stay married

1026
00:34:59.724 –> 00:35:02.364
– and you want him to improve and get

1027
00:35:02.364 –> 00:35:04.525
– better, you gotta talk to him. You gotta

1028
00:35:04.525 –> 00:35:06.764
– tell him. Some of them just don’t know.

1029
00:35:06.764 –> 00:35:08.304
– They just know that, well,

1030
00:35:08.764 –> 00:35:09.264
– my

1031
00:35:09.565 –> 00:35:11.804
– friend in this support group, my her husband’s

1032
00:35:11.804 –> 00:35:13.724
– doing x y z, and mine isn’t doing

1033
00:35:13.724 –> 00:35:16.010
– that. But if that’s the truth, then, yeah,

1034
00:35:16.010 –> 00:35:17.849
– you talk to your professional about it, talk

1035
00:35:17.849 –> 00:35:19.849
– to your outside to your CSAT about it,

1036
00:35:19.849 –> 00:35:22.570
– figure out, are my expectations too high for

1037
00:35:22.570 –> 00:35:24.409
– where he’s at in the process? Like I

1038
00:35:24.409 –> 00:35:27.255
– said earlier, if it’s early, you can’t expect

1039
00:35:27.255 –> 00:35:29.335
– him to be perfect at all as all

1040
00:35:29.335 –> 00:35:30.394
– of this stuff because

1041
00:35:30.694 –> 00:35:33.335
– we’re talking about rewiring a freaking brain. Your

1042
00:35:33.335 –> 00:35:36.454
– your brain has to be completely rewired. That

1043
00:35:36.454 –> 00:35:37.355
– could take years,

1044
00:35:38.214 –> 00:35:39.269
– not a months.

1045
00:35:39.670 –> 00:35:40.170
– So

1046
00:35:40.469 –> 00:35:42.550
– And just for the audience, that doesn’t mean

1047
00:35:42.550 –> 00:35:44.409
– he’s acting out and slipping.

1048
00:35:45.030 –> 00:35:46.570
– You can you can

1049
00:35:47.030 –> 00:35:47.530
– avoid

1050
00:35:47.829 –> 00:35:50.230
– the behaviors, but in all reality, is he

1051
00:35:50.230 –> 00:35:52.550
– going to be recovered or anything close to

1052
00:35:52.550 –> 00:35:54.775
– what a year out? I’m sorry. I know

1053
00:35:54.775 –> 00:35:56.695
– in states don’t wanna hear this. I mean,

1054
00:35:56.695 –> 00:35:57.914
– recovery is something,

1055
00:35:58.295 –> 00:35:59.894
– you know, Patrick kind of writes about this

1056
00:35:59.894 –> 00:36:01.655
– in almost all the books. I mean, it’s

1057
00:36:01.655 –> 00:36:03.894
– good recovery is really not something guys are

1058
00:36:03.894 –> 00:36:06.215
– venturing into until, like, the I think Patrick

1059
00:36:06.215 –> 00:36:08.099
– Karnes says what, like, the two year mark.

1060
00:36:08.099 –> 00:36:11.559
– Okay. Yeah. And before that, you’re you’re trying

1061
00:36:11.779 –> 00:36:13.460
– to be in good recovery, but you don’t

1062
00:36:13.619 –> 00:36:15.319
– your mind can’t grasp

1063
00:36:15.699 –> 00:36:16.519
– these concepts.

1064
00:36:17.059 –> 00:36:19.059
– And if your mind could grasp these concepts,

1065
00:36:19.059 –> 00:36:20.920
– you guys probably wouldn’t be such a compulsive.

1066
00:36:21.244 –> 00:36:22.925
– So that’s the thing is like the reason

1067
00:36:22.925 –> 00:36:25.164
– these things are happening is because your mind

1068
00:36:25.164 –> 00:36:27.105
– cannot really grasp

1069
00:36:27.885 –> 00:36:31.164
– what integrity truly is and what not having

1070
00:36:31.164 –> 00:36:33.724
– it does to yourself and others. You just

1071
00:36:33.804 –> 00:36:34.465
– you intellectually

1072
00:36:34.765 –> 00:36:36.385
– know but you don’t feel

1073
00:36:37.150 –> 00:36:39.070
– until that to your mark. Right? And that’s

1074
00:36:39.070 –> 00:36:41.710
– just Oh. That’s it’s a plus. But again,

1075
00:36:41.710 –> 00:36:43.730
– just for the listeners, when she says that,

1076
00:36:43.869 –> 00:36:45.949
– she doesn’t mean to let your husband slip

1077
00:36:45.949 –> 00:36:48.190
– and relapse. That’s not just the thing. He

1078
00:36:48.190 –> 00:36:51.010
– can have these thoughts and desires and addictive

1079
00:36:51.574 –> 00:36:52.074
– drives

1080
00:36:52.454 –> 00:36:54.054
– and not act on them while he’s in

1081
00:36:54.054 –> 00:36:54.554
– recovery.

1082
00:36:55.174 –> 00:36:56.234
– You need to realize

1083
00:36:56.614 –> 00:36:57.434
– you can’t

1084
00:36:57.734 –> 00:37:00.154
– white knuckle you can white knuckle sobriety.

1085
00:37:00.614 –> 00:37:02.714
– You can’t white knuckle the attitudes and behaviors.

1086
00:37:02.934 –> 00:37:03.914
– Yeah. So

1087
00:37:04.409 –> 00:37:06.010
– you can fake it for a little bit.

1088
00:37:06.010 –> 00:37:08.409
– But if you’re tracking these things that you’re

1089
00:37:08.409 –> 00:37:08.909
– noticing

1090
00:37:09.289 –> 00:37:12.170
– are they’re in your husband’s recovery plan and

1091
00:37:12.170 –> 00:37:13.309
– you’re still seeing

1092
00:37:13.690 –> 00:37:15.230
– it pop up quite a bit,

1093
00:37:15.609 –> 00:37:17.449
– just know that that’s an area that needs

1094
00:37:17.449 –> 00:37:19.609
– some attention. And since you have the front

1095
00:37:19.609 –> 00:37:20.349
– row seat,

1096
00:37:20.864 –> 00:37:22.945
– you could point these things out if he’s

1097
00:37:22.945 –> 00:37:25.025
– willing to accept it. If not, that’s a

1098
00:37:25.025 –> 00:37:26.164
– whole another episode.

1099
00:37:26.704 –> 00:37:28.224
– Yeah. Great. There’s a whole other show on

1100
00:37:28.224 –> 00:37:29.605
– that. Yeah. So

1101
00:37:29.905 –> 00:37:31.684
– the attitudes and behavioral changes,

1102
00:37:32.224 –> 00:37:33.045
– it’s a process.

1103
00:37:33.809 –> 00:37:35.809
– And feel free to ask him. If the

1104
00:37:35.809 –> 00:37:37.969
– lady’s listening here, ask him, what are you

1105
00:37:37.969 –> 00:37:39.110
– doing to work on that?

1106
00:37:39.489 –> 00:37:41.190
– You know? I’m really curious.

1107
00:37:41.650 –> 00:37:43.730
– And if you go into it defensive, well,

1108
00:37:43.730 –> 00:37:45.670
– this is my recovery. It’s not your recovery.

1109
00:37:45.890 –> 00:37:47.809
– She’s not gonna feel safe because On your

1110
00:37:47.809 –> 00:37:49.030
– recovery group,

1111
00:37:49.574 –> 00:37:52.295
– that’s where your recovery group shines, in my

1112
00:37:52.295 –> 00:37:53.835
– opinion. Attitudes, beliefs.

1113
00:37:54.695 –> 00:37:57.094
– That’s why you need to find guys who

1114
00:37:57.094 –> 00:37:59.974
– are like you, like minded with a similar

1115
00:37:59.974 –> 00:38:02.319
– process addition. It’s why, know, I get accused

1116
00:38:02.319 –> 00:38:04.800
– of being anti 12 step. I am not

1117
00:38:04.800 –> 00:38:05.300
– anti

1118
00:38:05.679 –> 00:38:07.760
– 12 step. I just think guys go to

1119
00:38:07.760 –> 00:38:09.359
– it and they say, ta da, I have

1120
00:38:09.359 –> 00:38:12.480
– peer support. Guys, 12 step is actually not

1121
00:38:12.480 –> 00:38:15.525
– peer support. Pure support would be what you

1122
00:38:15.525 –> 00:38:16.664
– formulate outside

1123
00:38:17.204 –> 00:38:20.085
– before and after the meeting. The meeting is

1124
00:38:20.324 –> 00:38:22.724
– there’s no crosstalk allowed, and the objective is

1125
00:38:22.724 –> 00:38:25.444
– to work the 12 steps together and be

1126
00:38:25.444 –> 00:38:28.484
– around other it’s it’s not pure support. That’s

1127
00:38:28.484 –> 00:38:31.219
– gonna happen outside of that meeting. And so

1128
00:38:31.219 –> 00:38:33.139
– the attitudes and beliefs, it’s really hard to

1129
00:38:33.139 –> 00:38:35.460
– change your attitudes and beliefs unless the guys

1130
00:38:35.460 –> 00:38:36.599
– you’re recovering with

1131
00:38:36.900 –> 00:38:38.739
– don’t have a similar you know, they don’t

1132
00:38:38.739 –> 00:38:41.239
– have to be exact same, but somewhat similar

1133
00:38:41.299 –> 00:38:43.380
– process addiction. It can be hard when this

1134
00:38:43.380 –> 00:38:45.525
– guy I always found that really tough in

1135
00:38:45.525 –> 00:38:47.284
– my groups. They were they just had a

1136
00:38:47.284 –> 00:38:49.525
– very different process addiction than I did. A

1137
00:38:49.525 –> 00:38:51.125
– lot of successful men have a very kind

1138
00:38:51.125 –> 00:38:53.684
– of different agenda and they’re acting out. And

1139
00:38:53.684 –> 00:38:55.445
– so but I just say, like, guys, if

1140
00:38:55.445 –> 00:38:57.045
– you’re wondering, what do I do with these

1141
00:38:57.045 –> 00:38:59.349
– attitudes and beliefs? To me, that is where

1142
00:38:59.349 –> 00:39:01.190
– peer support groups shine. I mean, that is

1143
00:39:01.190 –> 00:39:02.869
– where especially if you’re in one like mine

1144
00:39:02.869 –> 00:39:04.789
– where they’re gonna be hard on you. Yeah.

1145
00:39:04.789 –> 00:39:06.309
– I mean, we Yeah. You know, we don’t

1146
00:39:06.309 –> 00:39:08.329
– mean to make you guys cry. Yeah.

1147
00:39:08.949 –> 00:39:10.244
– They need to Right.

1148
00:39:10.644 –> 00:39:12.085
– You can’t make your own support group, by

1149
00:39:12.085 –> 00:39:14.405
– the way, guys. Like, don’t just go into

1150
00:39:14.405 –> 00:39:16.724
– a, you know, some friends, and that’s that’s

1151
00:39:16.724 –> 00:39:19.224
– not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about

1152
00:39:19.365 –> 00:39:21.385
– a support group led by a professional

1153
00:39:21.925 –> 00:39:24.469
– who can keep the group on this, you

1154
00:39:24.469 –> 00:39:26.949
– know, same on task and help guide the

1155
00:39:26.949 –> 00:39:28.789
– group and help with accountability because you’re gonna

1156
00:39:28.789 –> 00:39:30.710
– get newbies coming in. You need you need

1157
00:39:30.710 –> 00:39:32.170
– that support from a person

1158
00:39:32.550 –> 00:39:34.550
– like Roland who can hold your hand and

1159
00:39:34.550 –> 00:39:36.534
– guide you through these things. So we might

1160
00:39:36.534 –> 00:39:38.954
– be in in in and keep going too.

1161
00:39:39.175 –> 00:39:41.015
– Like, get you guys. Don’t give up. Like,

1162
00:39:41.015 –> 00:39:41.515
– if

1163
00:39:41.894 –> 00:39:42.635
– you keep

1164
00:39:42.934 –> 00:39:45.094
– going and trying to find a group where

1165
00:39:45.094 –> 00:39:46.074
– you feel

1166
00:39:46.454 –> 00:39:47.994
– connected, it’s connection.

1167
00:39:48.375 –> 00:39:50.969
– The Curez is not a group that you

1168
00:39:50.969 –> 00:39:53.130
– happen to go to. You need to feel

1169
00:39:53.130 –> 00:39:54.730
– connected. You feel like you care for them

1170
00:39:54.730 –> 00:39:56.329
– and they care for you. So don’t give

1171
00:39:56.329 –> 00:39:58.090
– up, guys. Yeah, don’t. You need to be

1172
00:39:58.090 –> 00:40:00.170
– trying to find that group. I’ll say it

1173
00:40:00.170 –> 00:40:02.250
– right now, it’s the most important thing. Every

1174
00:40:02.250 –> 00:40:03.849
– therapist will tell you this. Totally. If you

1175
00:40:03.849 –> 00:40:06.655
– guys don’t have that, You’re missing what I

1176
00:40:06.655 –> 00:40:08.574
– would say is the most important element in

1177
00:40:08.574 –> 00:40:10.894
– your recovery. And it’s not Again, it’s what

1178
00:40:10.894 –> 00:40:13.295
– Tiffany is saying. It’s not Yes, the connection

1179
00:40:13.295 –> 00:40:14.755
– is great. But what the connection

1180
00:40:15.214 –> 00:40:16.835
– opens a portal to

1181
00:40:17.214 –> 00:40:19.074
– are these four things that Tiffany’s

1182
00:40:19.389 –> 00:40:21.150
– spouting out. See what I’m saying? So it’s

1183
00:40:21.150 –> 00:40:22.130
– not the group

1184
00:40:22.429 –> 00:40:24.349
– and the meeting. Because I have guys, I

1185
00:40:24.349 –> 00:40:25.789
– don’t have very many, but I would say

1186
00:40:25.789 –> 00:40:27.789
– there’s four or five groups, guys in my

1187
00:40:27.789 –> 00:40:30.349
– groups who I’m busting them all the time.

1188
00:40:30.349 –> 00:40:32.655
– Like, bro, you’re here, but you’re not here.

1189
00:40:32.815 –> 00:40:34.094
– Yeah. And I sell them that all the

1190
00:40:34.094 –> 00:40:36.355
– time. I go, listen, it’s not you attending

1191
00:40:36.414 –> 00:40:39.135
– this group. You’re checking a box. Yeah. You

1192
00:40:39.135 –> 00:40:41.534
– need to come in and help us find

1193
00:40:41.534 –> 00:40:43.934
– these attitudes and beliefs. Yes. You have to.

1194
00:40:43.934 –> 00:40:45.614
– That’s what the group is there for. If

1195
00:40:45.614 –> 00:40:47.969
– you’re just showing up and, oh, I’m here

1196
00:40:47.969 –> 00:40:50.369
– for connection, guys, that doesn’t count. Alright. Let’s

1197
00:40:50.369 –> 00:40:52.150
– keep going on the list. Okay. So

1198
00:40:52.530 –> 00:40:53.510
– next is

1199
00:40:54.530 –> 00:40:55.429
– she wants

1200
00:40:56.050 –> 00:40:58.309
– to know that you’re working as hard

1201
00:40:58.610 –> 00:41:00.230
– as she is, if not harder.

1202
00:41:00.690 –> 00:41:02.230
– And like I said in the beginning,

1203
00:41:02.724 –> 00:41:04.164
– they could have p all of them could

1204
00:41:04.164 –> 00:41:06.324
– have PhDs in betrayal trauma, and they’re trying

1205
00:41:06.324 –> 00:41:08.405
– to figure everything in in addiction and all

1206
00:41:08.405 –> 00:41:08.984
– of that.

1207
00:41:09.444 –> 00:41:12.744
– And if you’re just going to a therapist

1208
00:41:13.364 –> 00:41:15.864
– once a week and you think that’s enough,

1209
00:41:16.085 –> 00:41:19.260
– again, that’s it’s great. It’s good. You’re processing.

1210
00:41:19.319 –> 00:41:21.239
– You’re doing the work. But what are you

1211
00:41:21.239 –> 00:41:23.799
– doing in between those times? So this has

1212
00:41:23.799 –> 00:41:25.739
– to be a job. This has to be

1213
00:41:25.799 –> 00:41:28.119
– another part time job for you. And I

1214
00:41:28.119 –> 00:41:29.559
– hear all the time, I don’t have time

1215
00:41:29.559 –> 00:41:31.239
– to for all of that. Well, then you’re

1216
00:41:31.239 –> 00:41:33.965
– probably gonna lose her because she’s going to

1217
00:41:33.965 –> 00:41:36.445
– outgrow you and resentments are gonna build, and

1218
00:41:36.445 –> 00:41:38.325
– you’re gonna stay stuck with this 90% of

1219
00:41:38.325 –> 00:41:38.945
– the breakthroughs.

1220
00:41:39.485 –> 00:41:41.885
– 90% of the breakthroughs happen on your own

1221
00:41:41.885 –> 00:41:43.485
– time. Would you not agree? I mean and

1222
00:41:43.485 –> 00:41:46.125
– that’s not a betrayal, trauma, sex addiction thing.

1223
00:41:46.125 –> 00:41:48.820
– That’s just a self improvement seeing a therapist

1224
00:41:48.820 –> 00:41:50.500
– thing. Yeah. I think that’s one of the

1225
00:41:50.500 –> 00:41:51.000
– myths

1226
00:41:51.619 –> 00:41:54.820
– with therapy counseling being kind of clumped into,

1227
00:41:54.820 –> 00:41:57.940
– like, medicine is there’s this concept of, oh,

1228
00:41:57.940 –> 00:41:59.539
– I go and do this treatment and the

1229
00:41:59.539 –> 00:42:01.855
– treatment makes me better. That is a myth,

1230
00:42:01.855 –> 00:42:03.775
– you guys. Therapy counseling is that all of

1231
00:42:03.775 –> 00:42:04.755
– this is about

1232
00:42:05.055 –> 00:42:06.114
– helping you

1233
00:42:06.655 –> 00:42:08.575
– find these things. Guys, come on. They can’t

1234
00:42:08.575 –> 00:42:10.515
– undo forty years of

1235
00:42:11.055 –> 00:42:13.934
– problematic beliefs in an hour session. Yeah. Like,

1236
00:42:13.934 –> 00:42:15.855
– you know I tell my my clients all

1237
00:42:15.855 –> 00:42:18.389
– the time, your CSAT can’t fix you. Yeah.

1238
00:42:18.389 –> 00:42:18.889
– Correct.

1239
00:42:19.429 –> 00:42:22.150
– And the ladies, I’m like, I can’t fix

1240
00:42:22.150 –> 00:42:23.929
– you. It’s what you do

1241
00:42:24.389 –> 00:42:26.250
– in between our sessions accounts.

1242
00:42:26.550 –> 00:42:28.889
– Mhmm. So don’t check the box

1243
00:42:29.385 –> 00:42:31.304
– because your wife’s gonna know the difference, and

1244
00:42:31.304 –> 00:42:32.744
– she’s gonna feel like you’re just not doing

1245
00:42:32.744 –> 00:42:35.144
– enough. So And a daily so Tiffany, from

1246
00:42:35.144 –> 00:42:37.144
– a daily practice standpoint, before we go into

1247
00:42:37.144 –> 00:42:39.304
– the next one, I have my favorite one,

1248
00:42:39.304 –> 00:42:40.824
– but I’ll I’ll start with you. What’s your

1249
00:42:40.985 –> 00:42:42.525
– like, if you were to tell a guy

1250
00:42:43.050 –> 00:42:45.690
– to add some sort of daily practice where

1251
00:42:45.690 –> 00:42:47.369
– he can really stay on this, what, like,

1252
00:42:47.369 –> 00:42:48.430
– what would you suggest?

1253
00:42:48.969 –> 00:42:51.230
– Oh, gosh. I I can only pick one?

1254
00:42:51.610 –> 00:42:52.969
– You can only pick one for the sake

1255
00:42:52.969 –> 00:42:55.710
– of for the sake of this. Okay. So,

1256
00:42:56.244 –> 00:42:56.744
– gosh,

1257
00:42:57.284 –> 00:42:58.724
– you already said groups. So I’m not gonna

1258
00:42:58.724 –> 00:43:00.324
– take Yeah. How about that? I’ll say mine.

1259
00:43:00.324 –> 00:43:01.764
– You can think because I sprung this on

1260
00:43:01.764 –> 00:43:03.065
– you. So mine

1261
00:43:03.844 –> 00:43:04.344
– is

1262
00:43:04.804 –> 00:43:07.784
– I think you need to be doing something

1263
00:43:07.925 –> 00:43:09.940
– with your group on the daily. So the

1264
00:43:09.940 –> 00:43:12.500
– guys, this could be a email forum. We

1265
00:43:12.500 –> 00:43:13.480
– use an app.

1266
00:43:13.780 –> 00:43:16.440
– We use a video exchange cloud based app,

1267
00:43:16.500 –> 00:43:18.980
– which is so freaking awesome. But then you’re

1268
00:43:19.140 –> 00:43:21.619
– throughout the week and throughout the day, you

1269
00:43:21.619 –> 00:43:24.659
– guys have the sounding board of people where

1270
00:43:24.659 –> 00:43:26.405
– you guys can start. Cause what I find

1271
00:43:26.405 –> 00:43:28.405
– is, guys don’t know what to go look

1272
00:43:28.405 –> 00:43:31.204
– for. And it’s not until Tom says, oh,

1273
00:43:31.204 –> 00:43:33.784
– hey, guys. What I just realized was,

1274
00:43:34.085 –> 00:43:35.684
– I have two voids in my life. I’m

1275
00:43:35.684 –> 00:43:37.605
– either deeply deeply sad, which I hate that

1276
00:43:37.605 –> 00:43:39.445
– feeling. So I’d rather the void of not

1277
00:43:39.445 –> 00:43:41.130
– being good enough because then I can just

1278
00:43:41.130 –> 00:43:43.049
– work myself out of it. And so that

1279
00:43:43.049 –> 00:43:45.130
– guy posts that video and you’re like, oh

1280
00:43:45.130 –> 00:43:47.210
– my gosh, I think that’s me too. I

1281
00:43:47.210 –> 00:43:50.349
– never have neutral. It’s always deep childhood sadness

1282
00:43:50.409 –> 00:43:50.909
– or

1283
00:43:51.210 –> 00:43:53.449
– the pursuit of more. And it’s like and

1284
00:43:53.449 –> 00:43:55.289
– then all the guys like, wow, how sad

1285
00:43:55.289 –> 00:43:56.835
– is that that we pivot in between two

1286
00:43:56.994 –> 00:43:59.094
– different levels of inadequacy and we’re never

1287
00:43:59.394 –> 00:44:01.515
– never enough. And you Right? So my point

1288
00:44:01.515 –> 00:44:02.295
– of that is

1289
00:44:02.594 –> 00:44:04.755
– you and your peer support group, I think

1290
00:44:04.755 –> 00:44:06.614
– you guys should be having a daily

1291
00:44:07.074 –> 00:44:09.714
– self improvement platform where you guys are really

1292
00:44:09.714 –> 00:44:11.760
– digging deep. Because again, it’s not easy to

1293
00:44:11.760 –> 00:44:12.880
– just feel the whole day and not know

1294
00:44:12.880 –> 00:44:15.039
– what to look at until some guy brings

1295
00:44:15.039 –> 00:44:16.340
– up something really interesting.

1296
00:44:16.640 –> 00:44:17.840
– And the next thing you know, you’re like,

1297
00:44:17.840 –> 00:44:19.760
– wow. I’ve never even really thought about that.

1298
00:44:19.760 –> 00:44:22.000
– Yeah. Right? So that’s my connection. And then

1299
00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.079
– I was right into doing the work. You’re

1300
00:44:24.079 –> 00:44:26.079
– you’re re like, they’re sending a video. You’re

1301
00:44:26.079 –> 00:44:28.154
– looking at it. As far as the couple

1302
00:44:28.295 –> 00:44:31.194
– goes, I think anything that you’re learning,

1303
00:44:31.494 –> 00:44:32.315
– whether it’s

1304
00:44:32.775 –> 00:44:33.514
– about yourself

1305
00:44:33.815 –> 00:44:36.694
– or about her and you’re watching videos and

1306
00:44:36.694 –> 00:44:38.454
– your group is sending you stuff and you’re

1307
00:44:38.694 –> 00:44:40.534
– don’t keep that to yourself. Share it with

1308
00:44:40.534 –> 00:44:42.750
– her. Let her know that you’re getting it.

1309
00:44:42.750 –> 00:44:45.230
– You’re really because otherwise, she’s just gonna think

1310
00:44:45.230 –> 00:44:45.890
– you’re just

1311
00:44:46.190 –> 00:44:48.110
– complaining about her the whole time. And she’s

1312
00:44:48.110 –> 00:44:49.550
– gonna go, oh, you’re just with your guys

1313
00:44:49.550 –> 00:44:51.550
– and you guys are just bitching about me.

1314
00:44:51.550 –> 00:44:53.085
– Yeah. But and that is what they think.

1315
00:44:53.164 –> 00:44:54.764
– That is what they think. They think they

1316
00:44:54.764 –> 00:44:56.925
– think that we’re bitching about their wives and

1317
00:44:57.244 –> 00:45:00.045
– They do. And that’s why Tiffany said, do

1318
00:45:00.045 –> 00:45:02.605
– not just throw your own group together because

1319
00:45:02.605 –> 00:45:03.505
– what a facilitator

1320
00:45:03.804 –> 00:45:06.045
– will do is make sure that all of

1321
00:45:06.045 –> 00:45:06.784
– the conversations

1322
00:45:07.164 –> 00:45:08.625
– are healthy and productive.

1323
00:45:09.219 –> 00:45:10.420
– Because I will say we have to be

1324
00:45:10.420 –> 00:45:13.140
– careful with this, you know, opinions. We we

1325
00:45:13.140 –> 00:45:15.059
– need to make sure that we’re looking at

1326
00:45:15.059 –> 00:45:17.300
– things from all angles, not just one. Yeah.

1327
00:45:17.300 –> 00:45:19.140
– And I think we have two more partner

1328
00:45:19.140 –> 00:45:20.820
– as well, by the way. Yeah. I think

1329
00:45:20.820 –> 00:45:22.760
– it needs to be a a a professional

1330
00:45:22.900 –> 00:45:25.005
– leading that group too. I I agree. Oh,

1331
00:45:25.085 –> 00:45:27.664
– Oh, especially with ladies, they they really need

1332
00:45:27.884 –> 00:45:30.065
– a professional because those groups can get really

1333
00:45:30.125 –> 00:45:31.664
– dark, really fast. They can’t.

1334
00:45:32.605 –> 00:45:33.984
– Upset these poor women

1335
00:45:34.364 –> 00:45:36.284
– are. It can be very easy to be

1336
00:45:36.284 –> 00:45:37.884
– like, how the hell did we let this

1337
00:45:37.884 –> 00:45:39.599
– happen and where the heck did these guys

1338
00:45:39.599 –> 00:45:41.920
– become so entitled to do this? Like, trust

1339
00:45:41.920 –> 00:45:44.320
– me. You start a sentence with that, the

1340
00:45:44.320 –> 00:45:46.180
– next hour and a half could be

1341
00:45:46.960 –> 00:45:48.099
– unproductive. Right?

1342
00:45:48.720 –> 00:45:50.640
– Yep. I know. Okay. So you want the

1343
00:45:50.640 –> 00:45:52.880
– third one? Yep. I do. Okay. This we

1344
00:45:52.880 –> 00:45:54.180
– kinda already talked about

1345
00:45:54.574 –> 00:45:55.315
– the empathy

1346
00:45:56.014 –> 00:45:57.554
– piece, the leaning in,

1347
00:45:57.855 –> 00:45:59.875
– putting on the shame shield, which is basically

1348
00:45:59.934 –> 00:46:01.934
– just going, okay. And this is about her,

1349
00:46:01.934 –> 00:46:04.174
– not about me. This is about yeah. I

1350
00:46:04.174 –> 00:46:05.934
– might get shot with a shame arrow or

1351
00:46:05.934 –> 00:46:07.420
– two going in there, but but I have

1352
00:46:07.420 –> 00:46:09.179
– my shame shield on because I know I’m

1353
00:46:09.179 –> 00:46:11.119
– in a better place than I was before.

1354
00:46:11.420 –> 00:46:13.019
– This is about a trigger, and I need

1355
00:46:13.019 –> 00:46:14.619
– to get in that hole with her. I

1356
00:46:14.619 –> 00:46:15.980
– need to go back in the past with

1357
00:46:15.980 –> 00:46:17.280
– her to help her out.

1358
00:46:17.739 –> 00:46:20.059
– If you can manage to do that and

1359
00:46:20.059 –> 00:46:21.659
– you can learn how to do that, if

1360
00:46:21.659 –> 00:46:24.094
– you need help, call me. This is my

1361
00:46:24.094 –> 00:46:25.855
– jam. I love to work with guys to

1362
00:46:25.855 –> 00:46:28.175
– kinda teach them empathy and kinda how do

1363
00:46:28.175 –> 00:46:30.014
– I get in there. So, yeah, that’s the

1364
00:46:30.014 –> 00:46:31.155
– other one. And then

1365
00:46:31.695 –> 00:46:32.195
– finally,

1366
00:46:32.894 –> 00:46:33.394
– safety.

1367
00:46:33.934 –> 00:46:37.400
– If she’s asking for you to check check-in

1368
00:46:37.859 –> 00:46:40.039
– with her every time you go somewhere, check-in

1369
00:46:40.046 –> 00:46:42.659
– with her. The more she asks of you,

1370
00:46:42.659 –> 00:46:43.319
– it’s not for

1371
00:46:44.019 –> 00:46:46.179
– punishment. Now sometimes, depending on where she’s at

1372
00:46:46.179 –> 00:46:46.760
– in recovery,

1373
00:46:47.219 –> 00:46:49.394
– sometimes it can be because she’s not feeling

1374
00:46:49.394 –> 00:46:51.315
– like you’re doing enough. So she there is

1375
00:46:51.315 –> 00:46:52.755
– a part of her brain, it’s called the

1376
00:46:52.755 –> 00:46:53.655
– anterior insula,

1377
00:46:54.275 –> 00:46:56.594
– that is all about justice. And it’s like,

1378
00:46:56.594 –> 00:46:58.695
– I don’t feel like he’s doing enough, so

1379
00:46:59.235 –> 00:47:00.914
– I’m just scrambling for what to do. Now

1380
00:47:00.914 –> 00:47:03.094
– if you have a couple professionals working

1381
00:47:03.609 –> 00:47:05.929
– on your team, that should prevent that from

1382
00:47:05.929 –> 00:47:07.929
– happening because they’re gonna make sure that we

1383
00:47:07.929 –> 00:47:10.170
– figure that out. But if she’s really not

1384
00:47:10.170 –> 00:47:12.409
– feeling safe, she should be able to tell

1385
00:47:12.409 –> 00:47:13.929
– you, hey. This is what I need for

1386
00:47:13.929 –> 00:47:14.429
– safety,

1387
00:47:14.730 –> 00:47:16.329
– and you have to have an open mind

1388
00:47:16.329 –> 00:47:18.804
– about it to do whatever she needs.

1389
00:47:19.184 –> 00:47:19.684
– Then

1390
00:47:20.065 –> 00:47:21.125
– well, within reason.

1391
00:47:21.904 –> 00:47:24.144
– I know what you like. Like, some people

1392
00:47:24.144 –> 00:47:27.184
– are like, well, she wants us to, like,

1393
00:47:27.184 –> 00:47:28.804
– pack up and move to Alaska.

1394
00:47:29.519 –> 00:47:30.880
– And I don’t know how we’re gonna do

1395
00:47:30.880 –> 00:47:33.840
– that. Okay. Well, we within reason. But doing

1396
00:47:33.840 –> 00:47:35.440
– day to day things that she needs for

1397
00:47:35.440 –> 00:47:37.760
– safety and on that safety plan is gonna

1398
00:47:37.760 –> 00:47:39.280
– be I need to be honest. I guarantee

1399
00:47:39.280 –> 00:47:40.960
– you it’s gonna be there. I need you

1400
00:47:40.960 –> 00:47:43.039
– to realize the damage that you’ve caused. I

1401
00:47:43.039 –> 00:47:44.579
– need you to learn how to be empathetic.

1402
00:47:44.640 –> 00:47:46.684
– That’s gonna be a big part of it.

1403
00:47:46.684 –> 00:47:48.545
– But doing what she needs for safety,

1404
00:47:49.244 –> 00:47:51.085
– I know I have ladies that will come

1405
00:47:51.085 –> 00:47:52.525
– to me and write a safety plan that’s,

1406
00:47:52.525 –> 00:47:54.625
– like, six pages long, 10 pages.

1407
00:47:55.085 –> 00:47:55.585
– And

1408
00:47:55.885 –> 00:47:57.804
– within a few months, it’s down to a

1409
00:47:57.804 –> 00:48:00.940
– page because he is leaning in. He’s showing

1410
00:48:01.239 –> 00:48:01.900
– that he’s

1411
00:48:02.280 –> 00:48:04.760
– working, doing the steps to be a better

1412
00:48:04.760 –> 00:48:07.739
– partner, to be a better human, being transparent.

1413
00:48:08.360 –> 00:48:10.360
– She doesn’t wanna be a mom. It’s not

1414
00:48:10.360 –> 00:48:10.860
– sexy.

1415
00:48:11.320 –> 00:48:12.680
– She doesn’t wanna be a mom to her

1416
00:48:12.680 –> 00:48:14.680
– husband and telling him what to do. She’s

1417
00:48:14.680 –> 00:48:15.980
– just seeking for safety.

1418
00:48:16.485 –> 00:48:18.724
– So that safety seeking is all part of

1419
00:48:18.724 –> 00:48:19.385
– the trauma.

1420
00:48:19.765 –> 00:48:21.765
– And if you could just understand that that’s

1421
00:48:21.765 –> 00:48:24.244
– part of the trauma, you’re already halfway there.

1422
00:48:24.244 –> 00:48:26.565
– Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Guys,

1423
00:48:26.565 –> 00:48:28.164
– the reason the list starts to get smaller

1424
00:48:28.164 –> 00:48:30.769
– as time goes on is she will begin

1425
00:48:30.769 –> 00:48:33.730
– to understand the unfortunate truth. These poor ladies,

1426
00:48:33.730 –> 00:48:35.809
– oh my gosh, they just got so rude.

1427
00:48:35.809 –> 00:48:38.050
– But she will start to realize the unfortunate

1428
00:48:38.050 –> 00:48:40.949
– truth, which is you can create a safe

1429
00:48:41.010 –> 00:48:41.510
– environment.

1430
00:48:42.050 –> 00:48:44.150
– You cannot make her feel

1431
00:48:44.655 –> 00:48:47.074
– safe. Yeah. We can’t. That is something only

1432
00:48:47.695 –> 00:48:50.335
– she can do. Yeah. Again, these ladies will

1433
00:48:50.335 –> 00:48:52.735
– eventually realize that, and it’s painful, and it’s

1434
00:48:52.735 –> 00:48:55.695
– unfair, and it’s unjust. Mhmm. Bullshit. Why should

1435
00:48:55.695 –> 00:48:57.880
– she have to make herself feel safe when

1436
00:48:57.880 –> 00:48:59.480
– you were the one that caused all this?

1437
00:48:59.480 –> 00:49:01.900
– I get that. It is a insanely unfair,

1438
00:49:02.359 –> 00:49:04.679
– and it’s how safety works. It is a

1439
00:49:04.679 –> 00:49:07.340
– felt thing that each person feels for themselves

1440
00:49:07.400 –> 00:49:09.719
– based on their own definition. So guys, what

1441
00:49:09.719 –> 00:49:11.534
– will happen is the the list will start

1442
00:49:11.534 –> 00:49:13.375
– to shrink as she starts to realize with

1443
00:49:13.375 –> 00:49:16.175
– her therapist that having this robust list is

1444
00:49:16.175 –> 00:49:18.974
– actually not gonna make the felt sense. Yes.

1445
00:49:18.974 –> 00:49:21.155
– That’s really a journey that she is on.

1446
00:49:21.214 –> 00:49:23.054
– And again, there’s never any guarantees. You know,

1447
00:49:23.054 –> 00:49:24.655
– a lot of these ladies, you know, it’s

1448
00:49:24.655 –> 00:49:28.010
– like, I wanna feel safe. We don’t know

1449
00:49:28.010 –> 00:49:29.929
– when or if we’re going to obtain that.

1450
00:49:29.929 –> 00:49:31.690
– We’re gonna work on it. But that’s the

1451
00:49:31.849 –> 00:49:33.530
– I think that’s the scary thing about this

1452
00:49:33.530 –> 00:49:36.090
– for people is, I don’t wanna live like

1453
00:49:36.090 –> 00:49:38.170
– this anymore and this is unfair. Like, am

1454
00:49:38.170 –> 00:49:40.170
– I gonna feel normal? And we just don’t

1455
00:49:40.170 –> 00:49:42.625
– have answers for those Yeah. And I hate

1456
00:49:42.784 –> 00:49:45.105
– And for and for her, a big part

1457
00:49:45.105 –> 00:49:47.025
– of her safety, she needs to come to

1458
00:49:47.025 –> 00:49:48.244
– realize as well,

1459
00:49:48.545 –> 00:49:49.984
– but we’re talking about what he can do.

1460
00:49:49.984 –> 00:49:51.505
– But just a side note, I know we

1461
00:49:51.505 –> 00:49:53.550
– weren’t supposed to talk about this, but is

1462
00:49:53.550 –> 00:49:54.050
– empowerment.

1463
00:49:54.430 –> 00:49:56.590
– Yeah. Sure. You know, if she does the

1464
00:49:56.590 –> 00:49:57.090
– work

1465
00:49:57.550 –> 00:49:58.289
– on herself

1466
00:49:58.989 –> 00:50:00.530
– to grow and become

1467
00:50:01.150 –> 00:50:03.789
– empowered enough to know that, okay. If this

1468
00:50:03.789 –> 00:50:06.430
– happens again, I’m strong enough to leave. I

1469
00:50:06.430 –> 00:50:07.489
– have a plan myself.

1470
00:50:08.034 –> 00:50:10.295
– I can quit looking over my shoulder

1471
00:50:10.755 –> 00:50:12.675
– and know that I’m gonna be okay. I

1472
00:50:12.675 –> 00:50:13.494
– can choose

1473
00:50:14.114 –> 00:50:15.875
– to be married to this man. I can

1474
00:50:15.875 –> 00:50:17.875
– choose to give him another chance. I can

1475
00:50:17.875 –> 00:50:20.195
– choose to forgive him because I know if

1476
00:50:20.195 –> 00:50:21.920
– it doesn’t work out, I know I’m gonna

1477
00:50:21.920 –> 00:50:24.079
– be okay. Yeah. And that is really, really

1478
00:50:24.079 –> 00:50:25.920
– hard. That’s hard to get to. It takes

1479
00:50:25.920 –> 00:50:27.140
– a while in recovery.

1480
00:50:27.519 –> 00:50:29.440
– Support group’s great for that too, by the

1481
00:50:29.440 –> 00:50:31.119
– way. Yeah. It is. It’s a you know,

1482
00:50:31.119 –> 00:50:32.480
– because again, in the end, none of us

1483
00:50:32.480 –> 00:50:33.619
– wanted to be okay

1484
00:50:34.244 –> 00:50:36.424
– with divorce. That was not an objective.

1485
00:50:36.724 –> 00:50:38.404
– But, you know, we we we do need

1486
00:50:38.404 –> 00:50:40.005
– to be okay with that. And you should

1487
00:50:40.005 –> 00:50:41.924
– have probably been okay with that before you

1488
00:50:41.924 –> 00:50:43.924
– guys got married. I mean, it’s us being

1489
00:50:43.924 –> 00:50:46.005
– a healthy person. We can’t Yeah. We can’t

1490
00:50:46.005 –> 00:50:48.105
– control others and we can only control ourselves.

1491
00:50:48.410 –> 00:50:49.930
– And so, that is something we need to

1492
00:50:49.930 –> 00:50:51.690
– put our finger on. Well, this was a

1493
00:50:51.690 –> 00:50:53.450
– a fun conversation and it’s and it is.

1494
00:50:53.450 –> 00:50:55.289
– It’s a hard question. And and I think

1495
00:50:55.289 –> 00:50:57.469
– the the reason it’s so difficult too is

1496
00:50:57.769 –> 00:51:00.410
– recovery in when it comes to process addiction

1497
00:51:00.410 –> 00:51:00.910
– because

1498
00:51:01.605 –> 00:51:04.244
– every process addiction, and I mean every process

1499
00:51:04.244 –> 00:51:07.445
– addiction, is unique. There will never be another

1500
00:51:07.445 –> 00:51:08.905
– guy with my process addiction.

1501
00:51:09.284 –> 00:51:11.925
– I’m the only one. And, now it would

1502
00:51:11.925 –> 00:51:14.085
– be guys where we have ninety percent in

1503
00:51:14.085 –> 00:51:16.425
– common. Sure. But there’s only gonna be interesting

1504
00:51:17.000 –> 00:51:19.400
– uniquenesses about every process that And I think

1505
00:51:19.400 –> 00:51:21.559
– that’s why it’s so hard for both these

1506
00:51:21.559 –> 00:51:22.699
– men and women.

1507
00:51:23.000 –> 00:51:24.599
– We can’t just listen to a podcast and

1508
00:51:24.599 –> 00:51:26.199
– say, Hey, well, I heard this podcast and

1509
00:51:26.199 –> 00:51:28.280
– you need to be this. Because that might

1510
00:51:28.280 –> 00:51:30.755
– actually not apply to your husband. Right. That’s

1511
00:51:30.755 –> 00:51:32.474
– the thing with this, he might not actually

1512
00:51:32.474 –> 00:51:34.635
– have that issue. So, you know, my purpose

1513
00:51:34.635 –> 00:51:36.574
– really of this podcast was just to show

1514
00:51:37.114 –> 00:51:38.974
– this is custom, you guys.

1515
00:51:39.355 –> 00:51:41.114
– And with the right help and good helpers,

1516
00:51:41.114 –> 00:51:42.494
– you guys can customize

1517
00:51:43.199 –> 00:51:45.359
– a really, really great treatment plan. One thing

1518
00:51:45.359 –> 00:51:47.119
– I would say to the partners is I’m

1519
00:51:47.119 –> 00:51:49.119
– telling you, like, you might be hearing these

1520
00:51:49.119 –> 00:51:51.839
– things on podcasts. Ladies, you might be putting

1521
00:51:51.839 –> 00:51:54.639
– five extra hours of stuff that actually isn’t

1522
00:51:54.639 –> 00:51:56.800
– as effective as maybe something else on his

1523
00:51:56.800 –> 00:51:58.545
– schedule. Is that really what you wanna do?

1524
00:51:58.625 –> 00:51:59.944
– Right? So that’s what I’m saying. Just be

1525
00:51:59.944 –> 00:52:00.964
– a little flexible.

1526
00:52:01.264 –> 00:52:03.905
– Yeah. To me, good recovery is a it’s

1527
00:52:03.905 –> 00:52:05.764
– a curious digging process

1528
00:52:06.144 –> 00:52:08.304
– where his recovery might completely change. He might

1529
00:52:08.304 –> 00:52:09.905
– be doing one set of things and then

1530
00:52:09.905 –> 00:52:11.664
– as he really uncovers stuff, it might actually

1531
00:52:11.664 –> 00:52:13.150
– start to look really, really different six months

1532
00:52:13.150 –> 00:52:14.429
– later. And that’s okay. That’s what needs to

1533
00:52:14.429 –> 00:52:16.190
– happen. And if he has looked very different

1534
00:52:16.190 –> 00:52:18.750
– than your friend’s husband, that’s not necessarily bad.

1535
00:52:18.750 –> 00:52:20.590
– It could be good. It could be a

1536
00:52:20.590 –> 00:52:23.250
– very tailored recovery plan. So again,

1537
00:52:23.630 –> 00:52:25.630
– just for everybody, just try to be curious

1538
00:52:25.630 –> 00:52:27.789
– and flexible with this. Process addiction is

1539
00:52:28.554 –> 00:52:30.795
– it’s not like Yeah. It’s not straightforward. It’s

1540
00:52:30.795 –> 00:52:32.015
– very calm. So, Tiffany,

1541
00:52:32.394 –> 00:52:34.315
– you actually I’m hesitant to say this, but

1542
00:52:34.315 –> 00:52:36.315
– I think you said you enjoy them. You

1543
00:52:36.315 –> 00:52:38.155
– do a ton of disclosures. So for people

1544
00:52:38.155 –> 00:52:40.715
– listening and you really love Tiffany’s energy, which

1545
00:52:40.715 –> 00:52:42.029
– I know you did because she just has

1546
00:52:42.029 –> 00:52:43.789
– such a great energy about herself Oh, thanks.

1547
00:52:43.909 –> 00:52:44.569
– In the process.

1548
00:52:44.869 –> 00:52:47.269
– She does do disclosures and from what I

1549
00:52:47.269 –> 00:52:49.530
– hear, she actually likes it. Oh my goodness.

1550
00:52:49.670 –> 00:52:50.569
– Good for you.

1551
00:52:51.190 –> 00:52:53.349
– Oh. Even though it’s such an intense Oh,

1552
00:52:53.349 –> 00:52:53.684
– yeah.

1553
00:52:54.724 –> 00:52:56.724
– So, Tiffany, kinda tell people how do they

1554
00:52:56.724 –> 00:52:58.644
– get ahold of you? Who do you work

1555
00:52:58.644 –> 00:53:00.244
– with? What states do they have to live

1556
00:53:00.244 –> 00:53:02.824
– in, or do you practice nationwide? Kinda talk.

1557
00:53:03.125 –> 00:53:03.625
– Worldwide.

1558
00:53:04.085 –> 00:53:05.224
– Yeah. Correct. I have clients

1559
00:53:05.844 –> 00:53:07.545
– from New Zealand to Dubai.

1560
00:53:08.820 –> 00:53:09.320
– So,

1561
00:53:10.579 –> 00:53:13.000
– yeah, I’m a certified disclosure guide

1562
00:53:13.460 –> 00:53:15.940
– through Dan Drake and Janice Cottle. I was

1563
00:53:15.940 –> 00:53:17.539
– in their very first class that they That’s

1564
00:53:17.539 –> 00:53:19.860
– right. Look at you. You’re you’re pioneer. Yeah.

1565
00:53:19.860 –> 00:53:22.785
– Very proud of it. And so I’ve done

1566
00:53:23.244 –> 00:53:25.985
– I’ve lost track. Close to 200 disclosures.

1567
00:53:26.684 –> 00:53:28.925
– I have a team, I guess you could

1568
00:53:28.925 –> 00:53:31.744
– call it, of people that I recommend

1569
00:53:32.285 –> 00:53:34.684
– to help him prepare a disclosure if he

1570
00:53:34.684 –> 00:53:36.900
– doesn’t have anybody that’s been trained in this.

1571
00:53:37.139 –> 00:53:38.739
– You do not wanna do a disclosure on

1572
00:53:38.739 –> 00:53:40.099
– your own, and you don’t wanna do it

1573
00:53:40.099 –> 00:53:42.019
– with somebody who’s never done it. Who a

1574
00:53:42.019 –> 00:53:45.059
– specialist or a person that’s never been trained

1575
00:53:45.059 –> 00:53:47.139
– on how to do a disclosure because you

1576
00:53:47.139 –> 00:53:48.839
– don’t wanna do it more than once.

1577
00:53:49.139 –> 00:53:50.900
– And you want her to feel like she’s

1578
00:53:50.900 –> 00:53:53.414
– really gotten all the answers. So the reason

1579
00:53:53.414 –> 00:53:55.275
– I like it is because

1580
00:53:55.974 –> 00:53:57.574
– most of the time, I like it, I

1581
00:53:57.574 –> 00:54:01.335
– should say, is because I love seeing how

1582
00:54:01.335 –> 00:54:04.215
– we are automatically knocking out the bottom part

1583
00:54:04.215 –> 00:54:04.715
– of

1584
00:54:05.119 –> 00:54:07.300
– the intimacy pyramid, which is honesty.

1585
00:54:07.840 –> 00:54:10.160
– And in order to get that safety and

1586
00:54:10.160 –> 00:54:13.440
– really watching her get a sigh of relief

1587
00:54:13.440 –> 00:54:15.519
– of, okay. Finally, I know. Okay. Now I’m

1588
00:54:15.519 –> 00:54:16.340
– not crazy.

1589
00:54:16.960 –> 00:54:20.000
– And then really helping that it usually just

1590
00:54:20.000 –> 00:54:20.739
– jump starts

1591
00:54:21.224 –> 00:54:23.144
– the healing process. And we don’t even get

1592
00:54:23.144 –> 00:54:25.465
– anywhere until we really get that disclosure done

1593
00:54:25.465 –> 00:54:27.545
– most of the time. So Yeah. It’s a,

1594
00:54:27.545 –> 00:54:28.585
– you know, it’s a thing a lot of

1595
00:54:28.585 –> 00:54:30.585
– people wanna, you know, they toy with skipping

1596
00:54:30.585 –> 00:54:32.825
– it. Not just men, but even the partners

1597
00:54:32.825 –> 00:54:34.105
– are like, I don’t know if I, you

1598
00:54:34.105 –> 00:54:35.480
– know, Listen, it’s,

1599
00:54:35.880 –> 00:54:38.039
– I would say and and here’s even for

1600
00:54:38.039 –> 00:54:39.960
– the guys, like, if your partner doesn’t wanna

1601
00:54:39.960 –> 00:54:41.480
– do it, guys, don’t force her to do

1602
00:54:41.480 –> 00:54:42.599
– it. She doesn’t she doesn’t have to do

1603
00:54:42.599 –> 00:54:44.280
– it. She doesn’t want it. But I would

1604
00:54:44.280 –> 00:54:46.839
– say, I would still encourage the guys listening

1605
00:54:46.839 –> 00:54:48.440
– to this. If she doesn’t want to go

1606
00:54:48.440 –> 00:54:49.179
– through the process,

1607
00:54:49.525 –> 00:54:51.925
– I would still recommend that you go through

1608
00:54:51.925 –> 00:54:53.764
– the whole thing. Write the letter as if

1609
00:54:53.764 –> 00:54:55.605
– you were gonna read it to her, and

1610
00:54:55.605 –> 00:54:57.764
– then read it to your CSAT and or

1611
00:54:57.764 –> 00:55:00.005
– your peer support group. It’s just a it’s

1612
00:55:00.005 –> 00:55:02.244
– a great exercise to just face more with

1613
00:55:02.244 –> 00:55:03.204
– because it’s always

1614
00:55:03.605 –> 00:55:05.519
– well, I should say always, but it tends

1615
00:55:05.519 –> 00:55:07.280
– to be a lot uglier than we all

1616
00:55:07.280 –> 00:55:08.099
– had in our heads.

1617
00:55:08.400 –> 00:55:10.239
– Yeah. So if they’re gonna reach you, what’s

1618
00:55:10.239 –> 00:55:11.840
– the website? What’s the best way to contact

1619
00:55:11.840 –> 00:55:15.119
– you? So my website is HOPE, and that’s

1620
00:55:15.119 –> 00:55:17.679
– an acronym for Healing is Optimal. Through personal

1621
00:55:17.679 –> 00:55:20.875
– empowerment, there’s that empowerment word again. Hope c

1622
00:55:20.875 –> 00:55:24.735
– f l, like Central Florida, hopecfl.com.

1623
00:55:25.035 –> 00:55:27.375
– And all my contact information is on there,

1624
00:55:27.675 –> 00:55:29.775
– pricing, all of that stuff is on there.

1625
00:55:29.914 –> 00:55:32.315
– And you can either email me or text

1626
00:55:32.315 –> 00:55:34.610
– me. I will text. I have a line

1627
00:55:34.610 –> 00:55:37.010
– that’s just for work, so I’ll respond to

1628
00:55:37.010 –> 00:55:39.650
– anything like that. But know that you might

1629
00:55:39.650 –> 00:55:40.849
– have a little bit of a wait to

1630
00:55:40.849 –> 00:55:42.930
– get in. But, yeah, I’d love to hear

1631
00:55:42.930 –> 00:55:45.329
– from anybody that wants to that’s curious, even

1632
00:55:45.329 –> 00:55:46.390
– just has a question.

1633
00:55:46.769 –> 00:55:48.485
– I love it. Yeah. So cool. I love

1634
00:55:48.485 –> 00:55:49.925
– that. Well, thank you so much for your

1635
00:55:49.925 –> 00:55:51.844
– time today, Tiffany. I know the audience found

1636
00:55:51.844 –> 00:55:54.085
– this helpful. And, guys, if you and ladies,

1637
00:55:54.085 –> 00:55:56.164
– if you have questions, head over and shoot

1638
00:55:56.164 –> 00:55:57.765
– her a little message. Sounds like she’s, more

1639
00:55:57.765 –> 00:55:59.445
– than willing to help. So this was great,

1640
00:55:59.445 –> 00:56:01.305
– Tiffany. Thank you. Thank you so much.

1641
00:56:01.760 –> 00:56:03.300
– This is great. This is fun.

1642
00:56:04.079 –> 00:56:06.159
– Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

1643
00:56:06.159 –> 00:56:08.000
– are a high achiever with a sex addiction

1644
00:56:08.000 –> 00:56:09.679
– and you’re looking for a recovery group full

1645
00:56:09.679 –> 00:56:12.880
– of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

1646
00:56:12.880 –> 00:56:15.679
– We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

1647
00:56:15.679 –> 00:56:16.900
– using four day retreats,

1648
00:56:17.199 –> 00:56:17.505
– weekly

1649
00:56:21.664 –> 00:56:23.744
– sobriety and save your marriage, go to our

1650
00:56:23.744 –> 00:56:25.125
– website and fill out our application.

1651
00:56:25.505 –> 00:56:27.984
– If you enjoyed this episode, please pass it

1652
00:56:27.984 –> 00:56:29.585
– along to a friend in recovery who would

1653
00:56:29.585 –> 00:56:31.505
– benefit from listening. It is my mission to

1654
00:56:31.505 –> 00:56:33.257
– get this information out to as many high

1655
00:56:33.257 –> 00:56:35.497
– achievers as possible, and I can’t do it

1656
00:56:35.497 –> 00:56:36.477
– without your help.