1
00:00:01,120 –> 00:00:03,839
You don’t realize what lying does. It’s very

2
00:00:03,839 –> 00:00:05,139
very very damaging

3
00:00:05,519 –> 00:00:08,480
to other people. Very damaging when we lie

4
00:00:08,480 –> 00:00:09,539
like that blatantly.

5
00:00:09,839 –> 00:00:12,480
Okay? So what I’m saying basically is, if

6
00:00:12,480 –> 00:00:14,240
they’re gonna accuse you of things that you’ve

7
00:00:14,240 –> 00:00:15,059
never done,

8
00:00:15,605 –> 00:00:16,744
just let it go.

9
00:00:17,125 –> 00:00:18,484
Nod your head and say, yeah. I I

10
00:00:18,484 –> 00:00:20,564
understand why that would be of concerning because

11
00:00:20,564 –> 00:00:22,885
of how much I’ve lied. Don’t defend yourself

12
00:00:22,885 –> 00:00:24,484
and say, I’ve never done that. Why are

13
00:00:24,484 –> 00:00:26,085
you accusing me? You know, don’t go there.

14
00:00:26,085 –> 00:00:27,844
You guys gotta have some grace in the

15
00:00:27,844 –> 00:00:28,664
beginning here.

16
00:00:32,140 –> 00:00:34,299
You are listening to the sex addiction podcast

17
00:00:34,299 –> 00:00:37,520
for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.

18
00:00:37,899 –> 00:00:40,460
This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and

19
00:00:40,460 –> 00:00:43,740
recovery principles specifically to the mindset of the

20
00:00:43,740 –> 00:00:46,695
high achiever. I’m your host, Roland Cochran, founder

21
00:00:46,695 –> 00:00:49,015
of the Successful Addict, a recovery group for

22
00:00:49,015 –> 00:00:51,335
high achieving men struggling with sex and porn

23
00:00:51,335 –> 00:00:53,734
addiction. For more information about joining our group

24
00:00:53,734 –> 00:00:57,434
or attending our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.

25
00:00:57,494 –> 00:00:59,515
And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.

26
00:01:02,350 –> 00:01:04,430
Is this whole thing even an addiction? Alright.

27
00:01:04,430 –> 00:01:06,030
Are these guys making this up so that

28
00:01:06,030 –> 00:01:07,869
they can get off the hook? Right? These

29
00:01:07,869 –> 00:01:09,310
are questions that are brought up all the

30
00:01:09,310 –> 00:01:11,549
time, especially by partners. Right? Is my husband

31
00:01:11,549 –> 00:01:13,790
actually an addict or is he just this

32
00:01:13,790 –> 00:01:16,245
asshole who’s cheating? And so let’s talk about

33
00:01:16,245 –> 00:01:17,784
this because I do think this matters.

34
00:01:18,085 –> 00:01:19,765
I’m not a big fan of the term

35
00:01:19,765 –> 00:01:22,105
sex addiction. I don’t like it only because

36
00:01:22,484 –> 00:01:24,805
it’s too broad. I think we should call

37
00:01:24,805 –> 00:01:26,484
this whatever we wanna call it, but I

38
00:01:26,484 –> 00:01:28,165
think we should have different categories because I

39
00:01:28,165 –> 00:01:30,105
do think there are men who are addicted

40
00:01:30,439 –> 00:01:32,520
in the sense that they can’t stop. They

41
00:01:32,520 –> 00:01:34,140
cannot stop. They’re addicted.

42
00:01:34,439 –> 00:01:36,680
And then there are men who are doing

43
00:01:36,680 –> 00:01:39,079
this who can stop. And therefore, you know,

44
00:01:39,079 –> 00:01:40,939
it would be called, again, compulsive,

45
00:01:41,319 –> 00:01:42,219
deceptive sexuality,

46
00:01:42,840 –> 00:01:44,935
some other name. But they’re not addicted in

47
00:01:44,935 –> 00:01:46,694
the sense that they can stop. And here’s

48
00:01:46,694 –> 00:01:48,555
why this matters is

49
00:01:49,015 –> 00:01:51,355
it dictates the treatment. It dictates the modalities.

50
00:01:51,734 –> 00:01:54,135
The issue right now is I believe there’s

51
00:01:54,135 –> 00:01:54,875
this overemphasis

52
00:01:55,334 –> 00:01:57,575
on this being an addiction that these men

53
00:01:57,575 –> 00:01:59,515
are powerless, that they cannot stop,

54
00:01:59,895 –> 00:02:01,950
and that we need to monitor these guys.

55
00:02:01,950 –> 00:02:03,390
They need to go to 90 meetings in

56
00:02:03,390 –> 00:02:05,469
ninety days, and my gosh, they can’t wait

57
00:02:05,469 –> 00:02:07,150
to masturbate. They can’t wait to look at

58
00:02:07,150 –> 00:02:09,949
pornography, and we gotta shield them from all

59
00:02:09,949 –> 00:02:12,189
electronic devices. And I think there are men

60
00:02:12,189 –> 00:02:14,894
who are addicted. Absolutely. They can’t stop. They

61
00:02:14,894 –> 00:02:16,995
truly can’t. I would say in my groups,

62
00:02:17,055 –> 00:02:18,734
two of the eight men in I have

63
00:02:18,734 –> 00:02:19,715
groups of 10.

64
00:02:20,094 –> 00:02:22,414
Two guys in every group are addicts. So

65
00:02:22,414 –> 00:02:24,334
I’m not saying that sex addiction is not

66
00:02:24,334 –> 00:02:26,514
a porn addiction is not a thing.

67
00:02:26,870 –> 00:02:28,789
It is a thing. I’ve seen it. Men

68
00:02:28,789 –> 00:02:30,150
can become addicted to it and it can

69
00:02:30,150 –> 00:02:31,750
be very difficult for them to stop. It’s

70
00:02:31,750 –> 00:02:33,269
very difficult for them to even go more

71
00:02:33,269 –> 00:02:34,870
than twenty four to forty eight hours. So

72
00:02:34,870 –> 00:02:36,870
that person would be defined. I think calling

73
00:02:36,870 –> 00:02:38,150
that person a sex addict or a porn

74
00:02:38,150 –> 00:02:40,069
addict would actually be an accurate description. Right?

75
00:02:40,069 –> 00:02:41,590
They can’t stop. They’re trying to stop. They

76
00:02:41,590 –> 00:02:43,354
can’t. Then there are guys who when they

77
00:02:43,354 –> 00:02:45,834
get caught, they can stop and they do

78
00:02:45,834 –> 00:02:48,235
stop. And they might not stop forever, but

79
00:02:48,235 –> 00:02:50,394
just because you can stop for like nine

80
00:02:50,394 –> 00:02:50,894
months

81
00:02:51,275 –> 00:02:53,034
and then you do it again or you

82
00:02:53,034 –> 00:02:54,394
stop for two years and do it again.

83
00:02:54,394 –> 00:02:56,334
Again, does that make the guy an addict

84
00:02:56,960 –> 00:02:58,400
that he made this decision to go do

85
00:02:58,400 –> 00:03:00,159
this thing? But he could stop, right, when

86
00:03:00,159 –> 00:03:00,819
he got

87
00:03:01,200 –> 00:03:02,319
caught. I think we need to be more

88
00:03:02,319 –> 00:03:04,480
curious about that. Now, again, why is all

89
00:03:04,480 –> 00:03:07,540
this matter? Because it dictates the treatment. Right?

90
00:03:07,680 –> 00:03:11,439
Addiction treatment is largely abstinence based, sobriety based.

91
00:03:11,439 –> 00:03:13,495
Right? Don’t do this. A lot of focus

92
00:03:13,495 –> 00:03:15,175
on, oh, man, that’s not the life I

93
00:03:15,175 –> 00:03:17,115
wanna live. I don’t wanna be that guy.

94
00:03:17,254 –> 00:03:20,294
And we haven’t studied how effective twelve step

95
00:03:20,294 –> 00:03:22,055
is for sex addiction. I’ve been to a

96
00:03:22,055 –> 00:03:23,175
lot of the rooms. There’s not a lot

97
00:03:23,175 –> 00:03:24,855
of sobriety in there, so I’m not sure

98
00:03:24,855 –> 00:03:27,335
how effective it is. The stats don’t appear

99
00:03:27,335 –> 00:03:28,909
to show that it’s effective

100
00:03:29,209 –> 00:03:31,209
based off of the relapse rate. But again,

101
00:03:31,209 –> 00:03:33,769
I also wonder too how much of it

102
00:03:33,769 –> 00:03:35,930
is actually effective or not effective, and how

103
00:03:35,930 –> 00:03:38,489
many men are actually going to a abstinence

104
00:03:38,489 –> 00:03:40,889
based, sobriety based addiction group who don’t have

105
00:03:40,889 –> 00:03:41,549
an addiction.

106
00:03:42,004 –> 00:03:43,604
Right? And so sometimes I think, you know,

107
00:03:43,604 –> 00:03:45,205
we look at the sobriety rate because it’s

108
00:03:45,205 –> 00:03:47,125
low. Right? It’s what? Thirty seven percent, I

109
00:03:47,125 –> 00:03:48,564
think. And a lot of people are like,

110
00:03:48,564 –> 00:03:49,844
oh, you know, and they assume that it’s

111
00:03:49,844 –> 00:03:51,844
hard to overcome this so that guys can’t

112
00:03:51,844 –> 00:03:53,844
get sober. I disagree with that. I really

113
00:03:53,844 –> 00:03:55,284
disagree with that. I don’t think that’s the

114
00:03:55,284 –> 00:03:56,824
issue. I think the issue is

115
00:03:57,370 –> 00:04:00,110
we can’t just call this sex addiction

116
00:04:00,810 –> 00:04:03,610
like we do with narcotic different substance addictions.

117
00:04:03,610 –> 00:04:05,450
Right? To call somebody who has an alcohol

118
00:04:05,450 –> 00:04:07,050
problem, it is actually safe to go into

119
00:04:07,050 –> 00:04:08,810
that room and say, you guys have a

120
00:04:08,810 –> 00:04:11,794
dependency on alcohol. And largely, everybody in the

121
00:04:11,794 –> 00:04:13,735
room kinda does have a dependency to alcohol.

122
00:04:14,034 –> 00:04:16,294
Right? They can’t stop. They’ve tried. Or cocaine

123
00:04:16,355 –> 00:04:18,675
or heroin or methamphetamine or whatever it is.

124
00:04:18,675 –> 00:04:20,194
It actually is safe to come in that

125
00:04:20,194 –> 00:04:22,035
room and kinda blanket them all with this

126
00:04:22,035 –> 00:04:25,220
chemical dependency because they are. Here’s what’s different

127
00:04:25,220 –> 00:04:27,699
about sex addiction. Think about the variety of

128
00:04:27,699 –> 00:04:28,199
behaviors.

129
00:04:28,660 –> 00:04:32,339
Flirting, fantasy, conquesting after women at bars and

130
00:04:32,339 –> 00:04:33,080
work conferences,

131
00:04:33,459 –> 00:04:37,139
affairs, emotional affairs. There’s digital content where you

132
00:04:37,139 –> 00:04:40,024
can buy content. There’s interactions with other women

133
00:04:40,024 –> 00:04:43,464
digitally. There’s pornography. There’s the list goes on

134
00:04:43,464 –> 00:04:44,665
and on and on and on and on.

135
00:04:44,665 –> 00:04:46,425
A lot of men in this space, they

136
00:04:46,425 –> 00:04:48,985
actually just wanna be wanted themselves. They wanna

137
00:04:48,985 –> 00:04:50,665
be wanted. They wanna be desired. They want

138
00:04:50,665 –> 00:04:52,589
women to lust after them. Right? So it’s

139
00:04:52,589 –> 00:04:54,269
actually less about lusting after the women and

140
00:04:54,269 –> 00:04:56,910
more about getting people to lust after them.

141
00:04:56,910 –> 00:04:59,389
Right? That was my personal addiction. Mine, it

142
00:04:59,389 –> 00:05:01,149
wasn’t really about sex and pornography and it’s

143
00:05:01,149 –> 00:05:02,430
so much for me as much as was

144
00:05:02,430 –> 00:05:04,925
as it was. I wanted attention from women.

145
00:05:04,925 –> 00:05:07,404
And I wanted sexual attention from women, physical

146
00:05:07,404 –> 00:05:09,245
attention from women. So again, it’s it’s a

147
00:05:09,245 –> 00:05:11,964
very, very wide variety of behaviors we can

148
00:05:11,964 –> 00:05:14,045
engage in. Now listen to this. Think about

149
00:05:14,045 –> 00:05:15,884
each of those, somebody could be getting something

150
00:05:15,884 –> 00:05:18,464
completely different. Right? An emotional affair,

151
00:05:18,810 –> 00:05:21,629
Yes. You’re breaking your marital contract.

152
00:05:22,170 –> 00:05:24,490
But how addictive is that if the guy’s

153
00:05:24,490 –> 00:05:27,129
getting some of his intimacy needs met or

154
00:05:27,129 –> 00:05:29,210
love needs met or whatever? And again, I’m

155
00:05:29,210 –> 00:05:31,384
not condoning his behavior. If he’s ready to

156
00:05:31,384 –> 00:05:33,064
move on from his marriage, he needs to

157
00:05:33,064 –> 00:05:35,485
go tell his wife that before he goes

158
00:05:35,865 –> 00:05:38,345
around lying to her and two timing her

159
00:05:38,345 –> 00:05:40,685
and living this double life. That’s entirely unacceptable.

160
00:05:40,745 –> 00:05:42,904
It’s extremely childish and it’s abusive is what

161
00:05:42,904 –> 00:05:44,370
that is. You don’t get the right to

162
00:05:44,370 –> 00:05:46,610
just lie to somebody. But so I’m not

163
00:05:46,610 –> 00:05:48,449
condoning their behavior. But what I am saying

164
00:05:48,449 –> 00:05:51,089
is how addictive is it really if he’s

165
00:05:51,089 –> 00:05:53,589
getting something human out of it? It’s unfaithful.

166
00:05:53,730 –> 00:05:56,290
Sure. Is it infidelity? Absolutely. Is it cheating?

167
00:05:56,290 –> 00:05:58,129
You bet your ass. Is it warrant divorce?

168
00:05:58,129 –> 00:05:59,785
You bet it does. So So I’m not

169
00:05:59,785 –> 00:06:02,185
condoning it, but I’m just saying calling it

170
00:06:02,185 –> 00:06:03,085
a sex addiction

171
00:06:04,185 –> 00:06:07,064
might be doing more harm than good. What

172
00:06:07,064 –> 00:06:08,745
I mean by that is is throwing that

173
00:06:08,745 –> 00:06:11,225
guy in 12 step meetings and making him

174
00:06:11,225 –> 00:06:13,839
call a sponsor all the time and having

175
00:06:13,839 –> 00:06:15,360
him do do check ins every single night.

176
00:06:15,360 –> 00:06:17,600
Is that really necessary when this guy can

177
00:06:17,600 –> 00:06:20,740
stop, isn’t addicted, hasn’t been addictively

178
00:06:21,120 –> 00:06:23,360
engaging in these behaviors? He was more so

179
00:06:23,360 –> 00:06:25,279
doing it because he could get away with

180
00:06:25,279 –> 00:06:27,105
it. He was lying. He was hiding it.

181
00:06:27,105 –> 00:06:29,185
Right? So again, there’s a difference between lying

182
00:06:29,185 –> 00:06:31,745
and hiding stuff and addiction. Those are not

183
00:06:31,745 –> 00:06:33,425
the same thing. And that’s why I really

184
00:06:33,585 –> 00:06:35,025
I think we need to be careful what

185
00:06:35,025 –> 00:06:37,444
we’re calling this. If you truly are addicted,

186
00:06:37,745 –> 00:06:40,500
you can’t stop. You have persistent urges all

187
00:06:40,500 –> 00:06:42,339
day long, right? Your brain wants to, hey,

188
00:06:42,339 –> 00:06:43,860
we gotta go do this. We got then

189
00:06:43,860 –> 00:06:44,839
you’re not an addict.

190
00:06:45,139 –> 00:06:46,580
If you can stop and just carry on

191
00:06:46,580 –> 00:06:48,100
with your life and not do these behaviors,

192
00:06:48,100 –> 00:06:49,620
you’re not an addict. You were just doing

193
00:06:49,620 –> 00:06:51,540
them because you could get away with it

194
00:06:51,540 –> 00:06:53,220
and you thought that you would never get

195
00:06:53,220 –> 00:06:55,165
caught, But you might not be addicted. Now

196
00:06:55,165 –> 00:06:57,084
again, why does this matter? Because the treatment

197
00:06:57,084 –> 00:06:59,485
is different. Why have that guy waste a

198
00:06:59,485 –> 00:07:01,564
ton of his time through all these addiction

199
00:07:01,564 –> 00:07:05,004
based, sobriety based, abstinence based treatment protocols which

200
00:07:05,004 –> 00:07:06,685
a lot of them are very time consuming,

201
00:07:06,685 –> 00:07:08,125
right? And that’s the whole point. The whole

202
00:07:08,125 –> 00:07:10,970
point is to fill your time with healthy

203
00:07:10,970 –> 00:07:13,689
behavior so that these addictive thought processes can

204
00:07:13,689 –> 00:07:15,149
start to lose power over you.

205
00:07:15,769 –> 00:07:17,689
But if he’s not an addict, I would

206
00:07:17,689 –> 00:07:20,170
say you can skip to recovery. You can

207
00:07:20,170 –> 00:07:22,064
skip to change. We don’t need to have

208
00:07:22,064 –> 00:07:25,105
this massive emphasis on sobriety and abstinence and

209
00:07:25,105 –> 00:07:26,785
just hounding this guy of, when are you

210
00:07:26,785 –> 00:07:28,625
gonna cheat next? And I bet you you’re

211
00:07:28,625 –> 00:07:30,225
looking at all these women at the gym

212
00:07:30,225 –> 00:07:32,545
and maybe he’s not though. I never did.

213
00:07:32,545 –> 00:07:34,980
I wasn’t this massive fantasy guy. I respect

214
00:07:34,980 –> 00:07:37,220
women. I’m very close with my sister, my

215
00:07:37,220 –> 00:07:39,220
daughter. I’m not this guy just running around

216
00:07:39,220 –> 00:07:41,379
looking at women like pieces of meat. I

217
00:07:41,379 –> 00:07:43,699
have boundaries there, right? I’m a professional in

218
00:07:43,699 –> 00:07:46,180
healthcare, right? I’m seeing patients all day long.

219
00:07:46,180 –> 00:07:48,254
I’m not just this pervert. And so, I

220
00:07:48,254 –> 00:07:49,855
do think we need to be careful with

221
00:07:49,855 –> 00:07:50,595
some of

222
00:07:51,214 –> 00:07:53,295
the blanket kind of diagnoses that go with

223
00:07:53,295 –> 00:07:55,134
addiction and just throwing that at any single

224
00:07:55,134 –> 00:07:57,295
guy who’s ever cheated. If you’re an addict,

225
00:07:57,295 –> 00:07:58,654
then, yeah, you probably hear all that in

226
00:07:58,654 –> 00:08:00,095
your stuff and you’re like, oh, my gosh.

227
00:08:00,095 –> 00:08:02,209
That’s so me. Please help. Right? So, it’s

228
00:08:02,209 –> 00:08:03,970
probably great. But if you’re not, it can

229
00:08:03,970 –> 00:08:06,689
be pretty darn offensive. I really had a

230
00:08:06,689 –> 00:08:09,329
hard time with everyone telling me how addicted

231
00:08:09,329 –> 00:08:10,949
I was when I was not addicted.

232
00:08:11,410 –> 00:08:13,009
I can stop. I’m going to stop. I

233
00:08:13,009 –> 00:08:14,529
don’t have plans to go back to these

234
00:08:14,529 –> 00:08:17,144
things, Right? Being hounded every single day of,

235
00:08:17,144 –> 00:08:18,904
oh, did you call your sponsor today? Or,

236
00:08:18,904 –> 00:08:20,664
oh, you’re only going to two meetings this

237
00:08:20,664 –> 00:08:23,144
week. Or it just became a bit frustrating

238
00:08:23,144 –> 00:08:24,904
for me because I felt like I was

239
00:08:24,904 –> 00:08:27,784
being talked to and treated like I had

240
00:08:27,784 –> 00:08:30,120
a problem that I never had. Truly, I

241
00:08:30,120 –> 00:08:31,560
never did any of these things and now

242
00:08:31,560 –> 00:08:32,679
all of a sudden I’m being treated like

243
00:08:32,679 –> 00:08:35,000
it. Now again, guys, we need to have

244
00:08:35,000 –> 00:08:37,320
some grace here. They don’t know what our

245
00:08:37,320 –> 00:08:39,320
addiction is and neither do you when you

246
00:08:39,320 –> 00:08:42,139
first start. So I would say,

247
00:08:42,565 –> 00:08:44,985
yes, it’s frustrating when someone comes to you

248
00:08:45,045 –> 00:08:46,404
and is telling you that you have a

249
00:08:46,404 –> 00:08:48,325
problem you don’t have. That is frustrating. I

250
00:08:48,325 –> 00:08:50,245
hear that. I was frustrated by it too.

251
00:08:50,245 –> 00:08:51,524
We need to have a little bit of

252
00:08:51,524 –> 00:08:52,504
grace here because

253
00:08:52,884 –> 00:08:55,065
what your couple’s therapist and the different CSATs,

254
00:08:55,205 –> 00:08:56,805
what they’re trying to do with you and

255
00:08:56,805 –> 00:09:00,220
your partner is stabilize, get some safety in.

256
00:09:00,220 –> 00:09:01,980
Your therapist doesn’t know what your process diction

257
00:09:01,980 –> 00:09:03,500
is and it’ll be a few months until

258
00:09:03,500 –> 00:09:04,940
they really figure out the ins and outs

259
00:09:04,940 –> 00:09:06,700
of it. And your wife is freaked out,

260
00:09:06,700 –> 00:09:08,700
right? She’s reading the books, she’s listening to

261
00:09:08,700 –> 00:09:10,940
podcasts, you just lied to her for however

262
00:09:10,940 –> 00:09:12,940
many years in the most horrific way. So

263
00:09:12,940 –> 00:09:14,965
her nervous system is shot. She is freaked

264
00:09:14,965 –> 00:09:16,757
out. She’s absolutely freaked out and she doesn’t

265
00:09:16,757 –> 00:09:18,549
believe you for a second. So when you’re

266
00:09:18,549 –> 00:09:20,341
like, oh, honey, you don’t have to worry

267
00:09:20,341 –> 00:09:22,133
about that. I don’t fantasize. She’s like, yeah,

268
00:09:22,133 –> 00:09:23,925
whatever. You’ve lied to me before. You’re probably

269
00:09:23,925 –> 00:09:25,717
lying to me now. So guys, we have

270
00:09:25,717 –> 00:09:27,509
to have a little bit of grace here

271
00:09:27,750 –> 00:09:29,509
especially in that first six months or even

272
00:09:29,509 –> 00:09:30,570
even the first year

273
00:09:30,950 –> 00:09:31,450
of

274
00:09:32,070 –> 00:09:34,629
guys, you don’t realize what lying does. It’s

275
00:09:34,629 –> 00:09:36,250
very, very, very damaging

276
00:09:36,710 –> 00:09:39,669
to other people. Very damaging when we lie

277
00:09:39,669 –> 00:09:40,649
like that blatantly.

278
00:09:41,029 –> 00:09:43,725
Okay? So what I’m saying basically is if

279
00:09:43,725 –> 00:09:45,404
they’re gonna accuse you of things that you’ve

280
00:09:45,404 –> 00:09:46,144
never done,

281
00:09:46,684 –> 00:09:47,904
just let it go.

282
00:09:48,284 –> 00:09:49,644
Nod your head and say, yeah. I I

283
00:09:49,644 –> 00:09:51,644
understand why that would be of concerning because

284
00:09:51,644 –> 00:09:53,644
of how much I’ve lied. But I can

285
00:09:53,644 –> 00:09:55,164
assure you I’m not I’m I’m very it’s

286
00:09:55,164 –> 00:09:56,524
very it’s a top of mind right now.

287
00:09:56,524 –> 00:09:58,070
I’m not going to do that. Don’t defend

288
00:09:58,070 –> 00:09:59,750
yourself and say, hey. I’ve never done that.

289
00:09:59,750 –> 00:10:01,750
Why are you accusing me? Don’t go there.

290
00:10:01,750 –> 00:10:03,350
You guys gotta have some grace in the

291
00:10:03,350 –> 00:10:05,429
beginning here. Now as time goes on, you

292
00:10:05,429 –> 00:10:07,029
start to figure out the ins and outs

293
00:10:07,029 –> 00:10:09,509
of your particular process addiction, and you start

294
00:10:09,509 –> 00:10:11,774
to realize that, hey. It’s it’s really not

295
00:10:11,774 –> 00:10:13,855
sexual. It’s really more around if you’ve listened

296
00:10:13,855 –> 00:10:15,294
to the podcast, you’ve heard of mine. Right?

297
00:10:15,294 –> 00:10:19,054
Mine’s really about attention, admiration, superiority, accomplishment. You

298
00:10:19,054 –> 00:10:22,335
know, I yes. It involves women sometimes, but

299
00:10:22,335 –> 00:10:25,470
usually it also involves impressing businessmen and doing

300
00:10:25,470 –> 00:10:27,389
well in business and making lots of money

301
00:10:27,389 –> 00:10:29,549
and buying fancy things. Right? So it was

302
00:10:29,549 –> 00:10:30,769
really all about attention.

303
00:10:31,070 –> 00:10:33,870
Right? And women got caught into that. But

304
00:10:33,870 –> 00:10:35,949
the truth was my process addiction was way

305
00:10:35,949 –> 00:10:37,409
more robust than just

306
00:10:37,725 –> 00:10:40,945
physical or sexual interactions with encounters with women.

307
00:10:41,004 –> 00:10:42,524
It was a lot of other things. And

308
00:10:42,524 –> 00:10:44,764
so, again, that’s why I’m saying if we

309
00:10:44,764 –> 00:10:46,784
don’t necessarily need this massive

310
00:10:47,325 –> 00:10:48,384
addiction sobriety

311
00:10:49,084 –> 00:10:51,644
emphasis, and again, make sure that you’re actually

312
00:10:51,644 –> 00:10:54,490
truly not addicted. That’s something that you should

313
00:10:54,490 –> 00:10:56,090
talk about in your peer group and make

314
00:10:56,090 –> 00:10:58,410
sure the other guys are, No, I think

315
00:10:58,410 –> 00:11:00,170
you are. Talk to your therapist about it.

316
00:11:00,170 –> 00:11:01,850
You’re not the person you’re not qualified to

317
00:11:01,850 –> 00:11:03,529
come in and decide whether you’re an addict

318
00:11:03,529 –> 00:11:05,450
or not. Right? You need to get into

319
00:11:05,450 –> 00:11:08,095
this and do your own due diligence and

320
00:11:08,095 –> 00:11:09,615
do your own therapy work and do your

321
00:11:09,615 –> 00:11:11,774
own recovery work to kinda figure out what

322
00:11:11,774 –> 00:11:14,195
was the root of all of these decisions.

323
00:11:14,495 –> 00:11:15,634
And was it truly

324
00:11:16,174 –> 00:11:17,774
addiction with this, you know, was it this

325
00:11:17,774 –> 00:11:18,274
addictive

326
00:11:18,654 –> 00:11:19,154
escapism

327
00:11:19,535 –> 00:11:21,634
coping emotional regulation thing

328
00:11:22,230 –> 00:11:24,490
or is it not? Because if it’s not,

329
00:11:24,549 –> 00:11:26,870
I think then we start to kinda transition

330
00:11:26,870 –> 00:11:28,490
more towards just recovery

331
00:11:28,870 –> 00:11:30,950
and kind of fast forward through the whole

332
00:11:30,950 –> 00:11:34,169
sobriety thing if relapse is not this massive

333
00:11:34,309 –> 00:11:36,884
imminent thing for you if you’re not addicted.

334
00:11:36,944 –> 00:11:38,144
And now we just need to make sure,

335
00:11:38,144 –> 00:11:39,745
okay. So if you’re not addicted, we need

336
00:11:39,745 –> 00:11:41,504
to change the thought processes that led to

337
00:11:41,504 –> 00:11:43,985
the decisions. Right? So, again, I usually use

338
00:11:43,985 –> 00:11:46,304
me as an example because it’s just easier

339
00:11:46,304 –> 00:11:47,904
for me because I’m familiar with my process

340
00:11:47,904 –> 00:11:49,264
addiction. So what do I mean by if

341
00:11:49,264 –> 00:11:51,580
you’re not an addict, kinda skipping to more

342
00:11:51,580 –> 00:11:54,139
of a recovery based approach rather than a

343
00:11:54,139 –> 00:11:56,620
sobriety absence based approach? We gotta figure out

344
00:11:56,620 –> 00:11:58,220
what went on in your brain. So for

345
00:11:58,220 –> 00:11:59,820
me, obviously, I already told you guys. Right?

346
00:11:59,820 –> 00:12:01,519
So my big thing was insecurity.

347
00:12:01,899 –> 00:12:04,399
Right? So I was engaging in behaviors

348
00:12:05,315 –> 00:12:07,875
to boost my resume and make myself look

349
00:12:07,875 –> 00:12:09,955
more impressive. Right? So that’s great and we

350
00:12:09,955 –> 00:12:11,075
need to work on that. But then the

351
00:12:11,075 –> 00:12:13,875
question is, let’s go before that even. Okay.

352
00:12:13,875 –> 00:12:15,634
Why do you need to be impressive? What’s

353
00:12:15,634 –> 00:12:17,794
that gonna give you? Right? What’s the benefits

354
00:12:17,794 –> 00:12:20,190
of being impressive? And then what’s the consequences

355
00:12:20,330 –> 00:12:21,389
of being unimpressive?

356
00:12:21,850 –> 00:12:24,090
Right? So if you’re not super wealthy and

357
00:12:24,090 –> 00:12:26,830
you’re not the top in your career and

358
00:12:26,970 –> 00:12:28,649
women aren’t giving you all this, so what’s

359
00:12:28,649 –> 00:12:30,570
the consequence of that then? What are you?

360
00:12:30,570 –> 00:12:32,429
Are you a loser? Is your life boring?

361
00:12:32,764 –> 00:12:35,164
Right? If, oh, women aren’t giving you attention,

362
00:12:35,164 –> 00:12:37,485
that means you’re not that special. Right? Like,

363
00:12:37,485 –> 00:12:40,125
what are you concluding about not having their

364
00:12:40,125 –> 00:12:42,205
attention? Right? So, it’s what am I getting

365
00:12:42,205 –> 00:12:43,725
out of it? What am I trying to

366
00:12:43,725 –> 00:12:45,965
avoid? Right? It’s all these questions that we

367
00:12:45,965 –> 00:12:48,044
need to start asking to really understand your

368
00:12:48,044 –> 00:12:50,120
process addiction. And I think this is why

369
00:12:50,120 –> 00:12:52,919
I’m personally in such great recovery and I’ve

370
00:12:52,919 –> 00:12:55,019
spent a ton of time on the recovery

371
00:12:55,079 –> 00:12:57,399
work. There’s sobriety and abstinence and all that.

372
00:12:57,399 –> 00:12:59,240
And again, if you’re an addict, you definitely

373
00:12:59,240 –> 00:13:00,839
need to focus on that. I am in

374
00:13:00,839 –> 00:13:03,105
full support. I do believe if you are

375
00:13:03,105 –> 00:13:05,184
an addict, I do believe you cannot recover

376
00:13:05,184 –> 00:13:06,705
until you get sober. Right? So if you

377
00:13:06,705 –> 00:13:08,784
truly are addicted to sex or pornography, you

378
00:13:08,784 –> 00:13:11,365
gotta sort that out. But the recovery works

379
00:13:11,424 –> 00:13:13,345
where the magic happens. Right? That’s where the

380
00:13:13,345 –> 00:13:15,504
decision making changes. That’s where the safety comes

381
00:13:15,504 –> 00:13:17,370
back. Right? That’s where your wife’s gonna start

382
00:13:17,370 –> 00:13:19,450
trusting you again. Right? How well do you

383
00:13:19,450 –> 00:13:22,809
understand your process addiction? This perceived benefit, why

384
00:13:22,809 –> 00:13:24,889
it was worth the risk. And then the

385
00:13:24,889 –> 00:13:27,370
consequences you were trying to avoid. Right? What

386
00:13:27,370 –> 00:13:29,450
went into making these series of decisions? What

387
00:13:29,450 –> 00:13:30,649
were you getting out of it? Because you

388
00:13:30,649 –> 00:13:32,115
were getting something out of it. Humans don’t

389
00:13:32,115 –> 00:13:33,254
just self destruct

390
00:13:33,715 –> 00:13:35,715
and violate their integrity for no reason. They

391
00:13:35,715 –> 00:13:37,554
violate their integrity because they think it was

392
00:13:37,554 –> 00:13:38,294
worth it.

393
00:13:38,674 –> 00:13:40,915
Your question is, why did I think it

394
00:13:40,915 –> 00:13:43,554
was worth it? Right? That’s recovery work. Especially

395
00:13:43,554 –> 00:13:45,715
for the guys who don’t necessarily fall into

396
00:13:45,715 –> 00:13:46,375
that addiction

397
00:13:46,919 –> 00:13:49,000
category. You really need to start to figure

398
00:13:49,000 –> 00:13:51,000
out, hey, how can I promise my wife

399
00:13:51,000 –> 00:13:52,759
that this isn’t gonna happen again if I

400
00:13:52,759 –> 00:13:54,519
don’t really know why I made the decision

401
00:13:54,519 –> 00:13:56,039
in the first place? Now, for those of

402
00:13:56,039 –> 00:13:57,639
you who wanna figure this out more and

403
00:13:57,639 –> 00:13:59,240
if you’re a betrayed partner listening to this

404
00:13:59,240 –> 00:14:01,225
episode, check out my book. It’s a really

405
00:14:01,225 –> 00:14:02,985
short book. It’s a 190 pages. For those

406
00:14:02,985 –> 00:14:04,664
of you who don’t read, it’s on audiobook

407
00:14:04,664 –> 00:14:06,345
as well on Audible. You can search my

408
00:14:06,345 –> 00:14:08,184
name Roland Cochran or you can also look

409
00:14:08,184 –> 00:14:10,024
up the High Achievers Guide to Sex Addiction

410
00:14:10,024 –> 00:14:10,524
Recovery.

411
00:14:10,904 –> 00:14:13,019
But, yeah, my book talks all about process

412
00:14:13,019 –> 00:14:14,459
addiction. How does it form? What do you

413
00:14:14,459 –> 00:14:15,980
need to do to recover? All that’s in

414
00:14:15,980 –> 00:14:17,579
the book. I’ll put the link to Amazon

415
00:14:17,579 –> 00:14:19,440
in the show notes. But seriously,

416
00:14:19,820 –> 00:14:21,980
it does matter. It does matter if you’re

417
00:14:21,980 –> 00:14:24,139
an addict or not. It does matter because

418
00:14:24,139 –> 00:14:26,959
it’s going to potentially slow down your recovery

419
00:14:27,019 –> 00:14:28,079
if you are not.

420
00:14:28,504 –> 00:14:29,945
Right? I would say we don’t need to

421
00:14:29,945 –> 00:14:32,284
have as much of an emphasis on sobriety

422
00:14:32,345 –> 00:14:34,264
and abstinence. I would always go there first

423
00:14:34,264 –> 00:14:35,464
just to make sure you’re not an addict.

424
00:14:35,464 –> 00:14:36,985
It’s not gonna hurt you. But if it

425
00:14:36,985 –> 00:14:39,245
starts to seem like maybe you’re not addicted,

426
00:14:39,464 –> 00:14:41,464
okay. Hey. Maybe let’s let’s start kinda bumping

427
00:14:41,464 –> 00:14:43,304
over to the recovery side of things and

428
00:14:43,304 –> 00:14:44,799
start getting a move on over there because

429
00:14:44,799 –> 00:14:46,480
ultimately that’s where the safety and the trust

430
00:14:46,480 –> 00:14:46,980
is.

431
00:14:48,399 –> 00:14:50,559
Thanks for listening to this episode. If you

432
00:14:50,559 –> 00:14:52,320
are a high achiever with a sex addiction

433
00:14:52,320 –> 00:14:54,000
and you’re looking for a recovery group full

434
00:14:54,000 –> 00:14:57,144
of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.

435
00:14:57,144 –> 00:15:00,024
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group

436
00:15:00,024 –> 00:15:01,245
using four day retreats,

437
00:15:01,625 –> 00:15:04,424
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.

438
00:15:04,424 –> 00:15:06,664
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and

439
00:15:06,664 –> 00:15:08,504
save your marriage, go to our website and

440
00:15:08,504 –> 00:15:09,485
fill out our application.

441
00:15:09,865 –> 00:15:12,120
If you enjoyed this episode, please please pass

442
00:15:12,120 –> 00:15:13,720
it along to a friend in recovery who

443
00:15:13,720 –> 00:15:15,720
would benefit from listening. It is my mission

444
00:15:15,720 –> 00:15:17,399
to get this information out to as many

445
00:15:17,399 –> 00:15:19,720
high achievers as possible, and I can’t do

446
00:15:19,720 –> 00:15:20,860
it without your help.